Why are the Irish Government siding with the DUP and Tories over Article 16?

Fred Cryton

Monitoring and if necessary preventing EU produced vaccines moving from EU to UK is a legitimate and perfectly reasonable aim of the EU in the context of the AstraZeneca contract reneging debacle.



Last i checked the UK included NI, and would be a backdoor into GB.


The Irish government need to decide who's side they're on here. The DUP/Tories or the EU? Of course SF are against anything which acknowledges partition, so their view isn't relevant here. Are the Irish government so naive that they would allow vaccines be shipped from Dublin to Belfast and on to GB at a time of limited supply, rather than upset the Unionists?

The_Brood

It's this extremely weird and ongoing, decades-long dance of pretending like Northern Ireland is both part of the UK and part of Ireland at the same time. That's a fantasy that is always going to come crashing down when practical issues arise. How long precisely does everyone think it can drag on for? There needs to be a final vote on the issue and then a hard border needs to be drawn - either on this island or in the sea. The fact that it will make life much harder for folks that live/work across borders? Well welcome to the reality people face almost everywhere else in the world.

With their frantic dismissal of Zero Covid and sheer reluctance to introduce quarantine measures to suppress new variants, the Irish Government are undoubtedly bending over backwards to appease the Tories & DUP. Shinners are hopelessly out of step here, temporary border checks are essential. EU were only right to shut the door after Britain slyly courted AZ and skipped to the top of queue. Quid pro quo, as Farage would mangle into his pint of bitter.

lawred2

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Monitoring and if necessary preventing EU produced vaccines moving from EU to UK is a legitimate and perfectly reasonable aim of the EU in the context of the AstraZeneca contract reneging debacle.



Last i checked the UK included NI, and would be a backdoor into GB.


The Irish government need to decide who's side they're on here. The DUP/Tories or the EU? Of course SF are against anything which acknowledges partition, so their view isn't relevant here. Are the Irish government so naive that they would allow vaccines be shipped from Dublin to Belfast and on to GB at a time of limited supply, rather than upset the Unionists?

Because dealing with this vaccine needs an all Island approach

We need as much vaccine as possible on both sides of the border.

It's on our interest to ensure that those in NI are vaccinated as soon as possible and vice versa.

It's not about the DUP. It's about Irish people who live on all corners of this island.

meeeeh

Those who call for shutting the border forget that if EU closes the border so quickly so can UK. Eu gave huge gift to Arlene for future reassessment of article 16 (every 4 years).

EU action was incredibly stupid and rash. I say that as huge pro European.

TheValeyard

Because it was a stupid thing for the EU to do. The Dail Mail, Daily Express, DUP, and Tory party are touching themselves silly over this.

Fred Cryton

lawred2 wrote: »

Because dealing with this vaccine needs an all Island approach

We need as much vaccine as possible on both sides of the border.

It's on our interest to ensure that those in NI are vaccinated as soon as possible and vice versa.

It's not about the DUP. It's about Irish people who live on all corners of this island.

Sounds suspiciously like the Shinner viewpoint which pretends the island is one country.

Fred Cryton

TheValeyard wrote: »

Because it was a stupid thing for the EU to do. The Dail Mail, Daily Express, DUP, and Tory party are touching themselves silly over this.

Why is it stupid? It's perfectly correct thing for the EU to do - AstraZeneca have not interrupted UK vaccine supplies even though UK factories are listed on the EU contract. You really want EU produced vaccines shipped to the UK after that? Who cares if Arlene is furious.

beerguts

For a lot of Irish people in the Republic we are sick to death of the Northern Irish. They make everything political, where common sense in this covid 19 pandemic should dictate that we work together we can't because a bunch of planters. These morons who think they are superior to us in every sense have lived of the British tit for generations and would never lower themselves to take the lead from Dublin. Coupled with this a nationalist population up there who love to be seen as the victim always.
I cannot hack any northerner anymore and I want done with the place. But what really galls me is our political parties who never challenged them or try to impose some standards in how they run their affairs, just look at the Quinn industries where the director was kidnapped and mutilated. This happened because our authorities dont want to rock the boat up there with the nordies on the border and let the situation get totally out of hand.
But let the Irish government know this if they in some way endanger our place in the single market just to placate them in that northern dump they will have a very angry populace in the Republic. Shut the border now.

lawred2

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Sounds suspiciously like the Shinner viewpoint which pretends the island is one country.

Jesus wept

Good thread this

lawred2

lawred2 wrote: »

Jesus wept

Good thread this

Well, it’s not.

joseywhales

I dont understand why this is so nationalistic, the eu should just sue astra zeneca if they are breaking contract. If the liability is high enough to bring down the company, they will route some supply from their uk factories.

O'Neill

beerguts wrote: »

For a lot of Irish people in the Republic we are sick to death of the Northern Irish. They make everything political, where common sense in this covid 19 pandemic should dictate that we work together we can't because a bunch of planters. These morons who think they are superior to us in every sense have lived of the British tit for generations and would never lower themselves to take the lead from Dublin. Coupled with this a nationalist population up there who love to be seen as the victim always.
I cannot hack any northerner anymore and I want done with the place. But what really galls me is our political parties who never challenged them or try to impose some standards in how they run their affairs, just look at the Quinn industries where the director was kidnapped and mutilated. This happened because our authorities dont want to rock the boat up there with the nordies on the border and let the situation get totally out of hand.
But let the Irish government know this if they in some way endanger our place in the single market just to placate them in that northern dump they will have a very angry populace in the Republic. Shut the border now.

Why are comments like the one above hardly ever challenged on here. Nice generalisation you've got there. You sound like a victim yourself FFS. Don't know where to even begin with this nonsense.

lawred2

O'Neill wrote: »

Why are comments like the one above hardly ever challenged on here. Nice generalisation you've got there. Don't know where to even begin with this nonsense.

Why challenge it?

Just ignore it.

suicide_circus

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Why is it stupid? It's perfectly correct thing for the EU to do

Then why did the EU furiously back peddle and call it an "oversight"?

livia21

Article 16 had it been invoked would have made it difficult for Irish in the north getting the vacine,,Irish Gov did not side with DUP and tories.


They sided with the Irish

Fionn1952

beerguts wrote: »

just look at the Quinn industries where the director was kidnapped and mutilated. This happened because our authorities dont want to rock the boat up there with the nordies on the border and let the situation get totally out of hand.
But let the Irish government know this if they in some way endanger our place in the single market just to placate them in that northern dump they will have a very angry populace in the Republic. Shut the border now.

Despite Kevin Lunney being a fellow Fermanagh man, I'd suggest you look into who is alleged to have been behind the attack.

Cyril McGuinness, a Dub. Luke O'Reilly from Cavan, Alan O’Brien and Darren Redmond both Dubs.

But sure, go on ahead with your faux outrage.

Donald Trump

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Despite Kevin Lunney being a fellow Fermanagh man, I'd suggest you look into who is alleged to have been behind the attack.

Cyril McGuinness, a Dub. Luke O'Reilly from Cavan, Alan O’Brien and Darren Redmond both Dubs.

But sure, go on ahead with your faux outrage.

Those lads didn't wake up one morning and spontaneously think to themselves - "hey lads, you know what would be great craic - couldn't we go up and attack some facilities related to Quinn's previous business, and sure later on we could escalate it to kidnapping and assault".


If it had been a crowd of Sicilian gangsters shipped in who had done it you'd hardly be blaming the people of Italy for it.

Fionn1952

Donald Trump wrote: »

Those lads didn't wake up one morning and spontaneously think to themselves - "hey lads, you know what would be great craic - couldn't we go up and attack some facilities related to Quinn's previous business, and sure later on we could escalate it to kidnapping and assault".


If it had been a crowd of Sicilian gangsters shipped in who had done it you'd hardly be blaming the people of Italy for it.

I would tend towards the outlandish approach of blaming the people who committed a crime for committing said crime.

Would I blame the entire population of Italy for the actions of a few Sicilian gangsters? No.....but I wouldn't go blaming all of the Greeks either because I'd heard a few of them were shifty and they might have talked to those Sicilians.

Fred Cryton

livia21 wrote: »

Article 16 had it been invoked would have made it difficult for Irish in the north getting the vacine,,Irish Gov did not side with DUP and tories.


They sided with the Irish

You mean the British territory in the North which is well ahead of the Irish in the South getting the vaccine? And whats to prevent it then being shipped into GB.

Yamanoto

Deleted User wrote: »

EU were only right to shut the door after Britain slyly courted AZ and skipped to the top of queue. Quid pro quo, as Farage would mangle into his pint of bitter.

Were the UK sly?

They quickly moved to secure supply a couple of months ago and same was absolutely public knowledge.

As per usual, the EU were slug-slow to act in the best interests of their citizens.

beerguts

O'Neill wrote: »

Why are comments like the one above hardly ever challenged on here. Nice generalisation you've got there. You sound like a victim yourself FFS. Don't know where to even begin with this nonsense.

What generalisation. It is because we have to thread on eggshells with them up there that we could not attempt a zero covid policy on the island. I am not trying to lessen the balls we made with international travel and the general irresponsibility of the population here but because they are so sensitive to any distancing from their mother country or to be seen to give an inch to the other side they cannot see reason. I am tired of it completely.

beerguts

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Despite Kevin Lunney being a fellow Fermanagh man, I'd suggest you look into who is alleged to have been behind the attack.

Cyril McGuinness, a Dub. Luke O'Reilly from Cavan, Alan O’Brien and Darren Redmond both Dubs.

But sure, go on ahead with your faux outrage.

What faux outrage. It is because the border area gets a very light touch from the authorities that the intimidation of the Quinn directors went unchecked. Its doesn't matter where the persons came from that did the assault but rather the environment that allowed it to fester

suicide_circus

Yamanoto wrote: »

As per usual, the EU were slug-slow to act in the best interests of their citizens.

Just as you have people who think the EU can do no right, you have a lot of people who think it can do no wrong.

James Brown

You have everyone saying it was a bad idea, because it was. The brits snook some vaccine and thats on the company. Penalise the company. Don't play with the north.
Doing so so soon has Foster pissed off and thats understandable.

tdf7187

O'Neill wrote: »

Why are comments like the one above hardly ever challenged on here. Nice generalisation you've got there. You sound like a victim yourself FFS. Don't know where to even begin with this nonsense.

As Lawred said, comments like the one you refer to, by no means uncommon here, are probably better off ignored, but unfortunately anti-northern prejudice - essentially a form of bigotry/racism - is seen as acceptable here. It's a close cousin, perhaps a subset, of partitionism, though traditionally partitionists tend to only exhibit prejudice against northern nationalists while simpering and sucking up to unionists (a weird form of self-hatred, ultimately. The unionists probably think they are strange).

tayto lover

The EU let Ireland down in a sneaky manner.
They had plenty of time for the NI Protocol until it didn’t suit them.

tdf7187

The OP is so bizarre I can barely take it seriously.

If a move unites SF, the DUP, the SDLP (I couldn't be bothered listing all the NI parties), the Irish government and the UK government against you, it might possibly be because the move was wrong, and indeed the EU has speedily bowed to pressure and reversed itself.

grassylawn

I don't see vaccines that go into NI directly coming out of our share.
The level of infection up there does directly affect he level of infection here.
So it's in our interest that they get the vaccines.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I don't know. I think romantic notions of an United Ireland coupled with the weird status of Northern Ireland with Brexit led our politicians in the Republic to back Northern Ireland and Britain.

I fear violence regarding Northern Ireland is getting closer, Loyalists have threatened to kill Varadkar for instance. The more an United Ireland is discussed the more the tensions will get ratcheted up.

Living in the southwest of the country I have more things in my mind than Northern Ireland.

lawred2

Lucy Sparse Burglar wrote: »

I don't know. I think romantic notions of an United Ireland coupled with the weird status of Northern Ireland with Brexit led our politicians in the Republic to back Northern Ireland and Britain.

I fear violence regarding Northern Ireland is getting closer, Loyalists have threatened to kill Varadkar for instance. The more an United Ireland is discussed the more the tensions will get ratcheted up.

Living in the southwest of the country I have more things in my mind than Northern Ireland.

huh?