The end of diesel has arrived (bans coming for Paris, Mexico City, Madrid and Athens)

Del2005 · 02-12-2016 01:44PM #1

4 major cities are banning all diesels by 2025, with phased bans in some, and more will follow due to air quality problems. Not too bad if buying now but with a 3 year replacement cycle then your next diesel will have no value when trading in.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-38170794

Advbrd · 02-12-2016 01:48PM

My current car is my first and last diesel. I don't do the mileage to justify it, its too noisy in comparison to previous petrol cars which I have owned. Next car: petrol.

Oodoov · 02-12-2016 01:51PM

Have a 2008 diesel i30 and it's fantastic. Don't regret for a second buying it as she's been utterly bulletproof and very economical. Will give me another 8-10 years service and i'll see the state of play then in regards the diesels before replacing.

fancy pigeon · 02-12-2016 01:55PM

Yesteryear: Diesel is great
Now: Diesel is the divil and all

Hypocritical sh*theads...!

A thought is how are articulated lorries going to fare... Electric? Petrol?

MarkR · 02-12-2016 01:57PM

There are various electric vehicles around, and I would imagine with these types of changes on the horizon, companies will start looking into alternative fuels.

zl1whqvjs75cdy · 02-12-2016 01:59PM

The price of everything is about to rise by 10 % plus then. Didn't think we'd all be so cheerful about that.

I drive a diesel at the moment cause it suits me. I'm moving house in the next 18 months and diesel will then no longer suit me so I'll swap to petrol. There's a place for both.

Cheensbo · 02-12-2016 02:00PM

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Yesteryear: Diesel is great
Now: Diesel is the divil and all

Hypocritical sh*theads...!

A thought is how are articulated lorries going to fare... Electric? Petrol?

Isnt that the point of green diesel sure? :pac:

I always use it, save money & the environment

NIMAN · 02-12-2016 02:02PM

I'm sure there will be exceptions for agri machinery.
Don't think you see many tractors driving round the centre of major cities anyway.

Del2005 · 02-12-2016 02:05PM

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Yesteryear: Diesel is great
Now: Diesel is the divil and all

Hypocritical sh*theads...!

A thought is how are articulated lorries going to fare... Electric? Petrol?

Diesel was always bad for people in cities and towns. Just the greens got the idea into politicians heads that the only bad pollution was CO2 which might kill us in a few decades and not all the other filth that diesel puts out that kills us now, as usual the politicians went with the populist solution which is now killing thousands.

Artics for the motorway then transfer to smaller EV/hybrid vehicle for delivery to the city. So in order to protect the environment we'll need to produce more vehicles!

biko · 02-12-2016 02:08PM

So 4 mayors of Paris, Mexico City, Madrid and Athens are planning to stop diesels in 2025

That won't spell the "end of diesel"... as a majority of lorries and other plant equipment will still be diesel.

Atomic Pineapple · 02-12-2016 02:11PM

I drive a diesel, it suits me, saves me money but **** sake is it a dirty piece of **** fuel, you don't need any science to know there's a health risk from the diesel fumes.

The real issue in Ireland is the tax change forced everyone to change to diesel, now we have far too many diesel cars on the road with many people not even needing a diesel, efforts to curb this has to be welcomed.

02-12-2016 02:19PM

Del2005 wrote: »

4 major cities are banning all diesels by 2025, with phased bans in some, and more will follow due to air quality problems. .............

I expect this ban won't apply to commercials such as trucks etc

adocholiday · 02-12-2016 02:23PM

I'd love to see something to encourage petrol car ownership again. I spent months searching for a decent sized petrol car in the €14k range and I've had to back down and buy a diesel even though I don't need one

paddydone1 · 02-12-2016 02:27PM

Dirty yokes them diesels, should be taxed to the hilt.

Del2005 · 02-12-2016 02:44PM

Augeo wrote: »

I expect this ban won't apply to commercials such as trucks etc

It will according to the article I originally posted.

Del2005 · 02-12-2016 03:01PM

biko wrote: »

So 4 mayors of Paris, Mexico City, Madrid and Athens are planning to stop diesels in 2025

That won't spell the "end of diesel"... as a majority of lorries and other plant equipment will still be diesel.

The list below is of cities current air quality, they'll have to do something to clean their air and diesel is the biggest culprit.

http://www.airqualitynow.eu/comparing_home.php

HGV will still be diesel but like diesel cars won't be allowed into cities. So who's going to buy a car where you can't drive into a city? There will always be a few diesels knocking around, like some people still bought petrol when diesel was king, but they will be a tiny market.

Plant will be interesting but will have to go electric to be used in cities.

02-12-2016 03:11PM

Del2005 wrote: »

It will according to the article I originally posted.

Don't believe everything you read in the.............

Del2005 wrote: »

..............

Plant will be interesting but will have to go electric to be used in cities.

Doubt it, time will tell.

If diesel passenger cars are eliminated from cities there is plenty scope for diesel HGVs, LGVs & plant to be used with minimal to no ill health effects.

Shannon757 · 02-12-2016 03:18PM

Augeo wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read in the.............

Doubt it, time will tell.

If diesel passenger cars are eliminated from cities there is plenty scope for diesel HGVs, LGVs & plant to be used with minimal to no ill health effects.

Well plant is starting to go hybrid so in ten years we could could see electric plant.

bazz26 · 02-12-2016 03:19PM

Diesels have always been bad for us but it just seems like there is a popular focus of hate on them these days because of their increase in popularity. I guess the next thing to hate will be the smugness of owning a EV or hybrid.

02-12-2016 03:29PM

bazz26 wrote: »

I guess the next thing to hate will be the smugness of owning a EV or hybrid.

Its called smug farts

Needles73 · 02-12-2016 03:30PM

Advbrd wrote: »

My current car is my first and last diesel. I don't do the mileage to justify it, its too noisy in comparison to previous petrol cars which I have owned. Next car: petrol.

Why did you buy a diesel car !

adocholiday · 02-12-2016 04:00PM

Needles73 wrote: »

Why did you buy a diesel car !

Not the person that made that post but in the same boat as him/her. Petrol cars are a rarity post 2010, especially if you like bigger cars. This might be a slight deviation from the main point of the OP but take the following search results on carzone.

Cars from 2010 - 2016(2): 28,747
Diesel: 23,695 (82%)
Petrol: 4,571 (16%)

Now take hatchbacks & commercials out of the equation:
Total: 16,555
Diesel: 15,266 (92%)
Petrol: 1,056 (6%)

Now limit engine size to 1.6 litre plus (results are similar for 2 litre plus)
Total: 13,432
Diesel: 12,845 (96%)
Petrol: 397 (3%)

It is next to impossible to get a used petrol car in this country unless it's a small hatchback.

Special Circumstances · 02-12-2016 04:30PM

adocholiday wrote: »

It is next to impossible to get a used petrol car in this country unless it's a small hatchback.

"Green policy is working" as they said themselves when the figures changed over night toward diesel. Thinking ahead as always.

Apparently they see no link between their scientifically naive diesel worship and air quality. Ah, green party, how we do love to laugh at your silly misguided pseudo science

https://twitter.com/greenparty_ie/status/804697125300957184

ShadowHearth · 02-12-2016 04:43PM

I think its a bit too far fetched... By 2025... Thats still **** loads of time and thats only 4 Cities, that I really doubt I will ever visit with my car...

Even if diesel suits me right now, I just dont want to drive it anymore. My first diesel ever and its the only thing I hate about my car. Hopefully I am able to go back to Petrol on my next car, specially when Petrol cars became so much more efficient and give decent mpg. Ill pay extra, but at least car wont sound like a tractor and will have bigger red line then 4-5k...

Del2005 · 02-12-2016 05:07PM

Augeo wrote: »

Don't believe everything you read in the.............

Doubt it, time will tell.

If diesel passenger cars are eliminated from cities there is plenty scope for diesel HGVs, LGVs & plant to be used with minimal to no ill health effects.

The ban will be on what comes out of the exhaust not what produced it. There are already restrictions on diesel vehicles in a lot of cities and these restrictions are going to get tougher till no diesel will meet them.

Nonoperational · 02-12-2016 05:13PM

By 2025 I'd imagine hybrids will be king with small turbocharged petrols backing up electric. Got my first diesel recently. It's absolutely brilliant. Refined, powerful and economical. The plans of 4 cities abroad in 9 years time is a nonsense thing to be worrying about! I'll go diesel again in 2 years time and see after that.

Del2005 · 02-12-2016 05:13PM

bazz26 wrote: »

Diesels have always been bad for us but it just seems like there is a popular focus of hate on them these days because of their increase in popularity. I guess the next thing to hate will be the smugness of owning a EV or hybrid.

The huge increase in popularity was because of a lie, with is part of the reason for the backlash. They were pushed as green because they emitted a bit less CO2 while completely ignoring the fact that they produced more of the stuff that kills people.

pawrick · 02-12-2016 05:19PM

Switched to diesel for the first time with my current car. I have nothing against it but I'd love to go electric if I could have something similar to what I have now. My mileage is below average so I could have gone petrol only for lack of choice 2nd hand. I'm hoping this results in an improvements to the EV market and the choice on offer but there is a long way to catch up between whats planned and being available to the everyday person added to the fact that with a market improving so rapidly no one wants to get stuck with old tech.

elperello · 02-12-2016 05:24PM

Dublin ban on diesel would be one way of keeping the IFA and their tractors out of Merrion Square`!

flutered · 02-12-2016 05:25PM

paddydone1 wrote: »

Dirty yokes them diesels, should be taxed to the hilt.

mine is, its an 05

porsche boy · 02-12-2016 06:43PM

In a world where nearly all shipping, both land & sea is powered by diesel there will never be a ban on diesel. Making Joe public buy petrol instead if diesel is a possibility, change the tax brackets and watch everyone go back to petrol but busses, trucks, locomotives, ships etc will always run diesel because it's cheaper and gives better mpg. Can't see that changing in the next few decades.

gctest50 · 02-12-2016 06:50PM

Electric / hydrogen trucks :

Peak output from the electric drive system is said to be more than 1,000 horsepower and 2,000 pound-feet of torque, enough to accelerate the One from 0-60 mph in 30 seconds, or about twice as quick as a conventional diesel rig.

no hydrogen fill stations ?

The fuel cell is targeted at customers in North America while a natural gas turbine will be available in markets where hydrogen fueling stations are lacking.

http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2016/12/02/nikola-hydrogen-powered-semi-truck-revealed.html

job seeker · 02-12-2016 06:56PM

Cheensbo wrote: »

Isnt that the point of green diesel sure? :pac:

I always use it, save money & the environment

"flicking your bean and filling with green"

photosmart · 02-12-2016 07:01PM

More socialist hokum. See cfl vs led analogy. Politicians have no expertise and shouldn't be backing ad hoc solutions as they get inflated airtime from the "greens". Remember it was the greens that effectively pushed diesel.

Pkiernan · 02-12-2016 07:03PM

On no. I can't drive through fooking Paris. However will I cope?????

166man · 02-12-2016 07:09PM

Right lads. It's simple really.

It's clear that the demise of the Diesel passenger car is on the horizon. It is only a matter of time until cars can no longer use consumable reagents (such as AdBlue) and periodically regenerating emission control systems (such as DPFs).

As a result of this those who have proceeded ahead and gotten their EGR's and DPFS remapped will end up getting banned.

gctest50 · 02-12-2016 07:35PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

On no. I can't drive through fooking Paris. However will I cope?????

The SIMI and friends won't neglect the chance to save peoples health :

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1202/836016-diesel/

The Director General of Society of the Irish Motor Industry has said it is possible for Dublin to become a diesel free city within the next ten years

Mr Nix said the measures must be taken now so Ireland is not dealing with health problems down the line.

there are a number of measures that the Government can undertake to reduce the use of diesel such as looking at Vehicle Registration Tax and the fuel tax reduction for diesel.

jimmy blevins · 02-12-2016 08:07PM

All ye Johny come latelys buying purely for the chape tax have ruined for those of us who always drove diesel.

exaisle · 02-12-2016 08:22PM

Given that diesel is a byproduct of petrol production, what are they going to do with all of the diesel they have left over?

selectamatic · 02-12-2016 08:58PM

166man wrote: »

As a result of this those who have proceeded ahead and gotten their EGR's and DPFS remapped will end up getting banned.

Tbh its not simple and I doubt any major ban will happen.

Firstly it'll take a good while for any change to the diesel car "emissions" testing during the nct to occur.

But for arguments sake say in 6 years time there is a visual test where the tester checks for the presence of a cat, a dpf and an egr valve most people who have deleted these features still have them in situ they're merely blanked off or hollowed out therefore they'll still pass a visual test.

Now let's move into dream land where diesel cars are actually tested for their emissions and they have to meet set co2 and particle limits most if not all post cheap tax diesels will fail these tests whether they're modified or not.

So many cars don't meet standards in the real world as is!

Vag dieselgate, talk of Renault cars having unusual results when tested independently, Mercedes, Honda, Mazda and Mitsubishi diesel cars also having interesting results so really if the nct ever brought in a proper stringint test most diesel cars would fail leading to massive law suits and manufacturers coming under massive legal pressure and millions of cars being effectively scrapped.

This is a can of worms no Irish or European government wants to open as it really would be political suicide.

jimmy blevins · 02-12-2016 09:00PM

Hgv and trains will be using Diesel for some time to come, until hydrogen becomes a viable alternative.

FortySeven · 02-12-2016 09:16PM

fancy pigeon wrote: »

Yesteryear: Diesel is great
Now: Diesel is the divil and all

Hypocritical sh*theads...!

A thought is how are articulated lorries going to fare... Electric? Petrol?

Some of us never fell for the hype in the first place. Diesel is great for trains, buses and travelling salesmen. I've been banging on about this for years and will greet the death of the diesel car the same way I did Thatcher.

Renegade Mechanic · 02-12-2016 09:25PM

Only problem I ever had with diesels was people buying them because they were "clean".
The carcinogenic nox emissions - even with the extremely expensive equipment bolted on to combat it - were always going to be way too high.

I don't want diesel outlawed anywhere, but I wish it was used more responsibly and transparently.
Diesel is great in trucks etc, but the prohibitive taxation on fuels is going to drive (heh) people into diesel cars until they're explicitly forbidden from owning them.

josip · 02-12-2016 09:35PM

These cities are only the first 4.
I'd expect lots of copycat mayors/city councils to jump on the bandwagon in the next 12 months and add their city to the list.

gctest50 · 02-12-2016 09:39PM

Renegade Mechanic wrote: »

.............

Diesel is great in trucks etc, but the prohibitive taxation on fuels is going to drive (heh) people into diesel cars until they're explicitly forbidden from owning them.

Forbidding people from anything never works, they'll just tax them to death and you'll get an automated ticket if you bring your diesel car inside the Pale

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Gas Networks Ireland is currently seeking sites and potential partners for the roll out of this new network.

For more details contact 1850-411-511 or email cng@gasnetworks .ie

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Energy watchdog agrees €12.8m funding for gas filling stations

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A filling station is currently under construction at Clean Ireland Recycling's depot in Shannon, Co Clare in a joint venture with Gas Networks Ireland.

dr.fuzzenstein · 02-12-2016 10:08PM

I keep saying this over and over again, but OK, once more.
The petrol fanbois been having a circle jerk over this issue for many years now. They honestly think diesel will be banned and then we will all be driving 2 liter turbo petrols for the end of eternity.
Well, I've got bad news, your party is running out too. What you're seeing is not the end of diesel, but the of the ICE.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/08/germanys-bundesrat-resolves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/08/germanys-bundesrat-resolves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/#3c0685c831d9

Well, one is bound to work...

You really are extremely naive and blue eyed if you think its just diesel.

Skommando · 02-12-2016 10:35PM

I don't car if its petrol diesel or electric. I'll go for the one that's the most reliable and best overall value.

Renegade Mechanic · 02-12-2016 10:47PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I keep saying this over and over again, but OK, once more.
The petrol fanbois been having a circle jerk over this issue for many years now. They honestly think diesel will be banned and then we will all be driving 2 liter turbo petrols for the end of eternity.
Well, I've got bad news, your party is running out too. What you're seeing is not the end of diesel, but the of the ICE.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/08/germanys-bundesrat-resolves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2016/10/08/germanys-bundesrat-resolves-end-of-internal-combustion-engine/#3c0685c831d9

Well, one is bound to work...

You really are extremely naive and blue eyed if you think its just diesel.

Noooo, keep the ICE, two cylinder is enough, replace the gearbox with a generator and yer golden. Miniscule emissions without the massive coal fired power station. (ignoring the batteries

)

The two cylinder tdi twin up! Was a game changer right up until it was decided convenient that Volkswagen needed a slap on the wrist for their emissions cheating....

RandomAccess · 02-12-2016 10:50PM

I give you the future!

Actually it's 20 years old now.

unkel · 02-12-2016 10:58PM

The chairman of SIMI said today that there won't be any more diesels in Dublin within 10 years

The statement isn't remarkable but where it's coming from is!

Skommando · 02-12-2016 11:04PM

unkel wrote: »

The chairman of SIMI said today that there won't be any more diesels in Dublin within 10 years

The statement isn't remarkable but where it's coming from is!

The SIMI are licking their lips with the prospect of selling replacement new non diesel cars and giving next to nothing for any diesel trade ins.
The SIMI couldn't care less what engine is in a car as long as people are forced to buy one.

The end of diesel has arrived (bans coming for Paris, Mexico City, Madrid and Athens)

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