If you could redesign the driving education system,what would you do?

Commotion Ocean · 13-12-2016 01:36AM #1

I'd start with beefing up the theory section, with more detailed questions on lane discipline and roundabout usage. I'd also include questions in the theory exam about car maintenance and general upkeep of the car. I'd also include questions on light usage and thorough emphasis on unsafe road behavior.

I'd make first aid classes mandatory for getting your license and mandatory lessons in tackling small fires.

I'd introduce mandatory lessons in urban, rural and motorway settings each to be held during the day and during the night.

So there'd be day time urban lessons, day time rural lessons and day time motorway lessons. You'll then have to pass a test driving in these three different environments during the day.

Once the day time module is complete, you'll then have to take lessons after dusk in a rural setting, lessons after dusk in an urban setting and lessons after dusk on a motorway setting and then pass a module in this setting.

Finally after these modules have been passed, the candidate will have to do a course in a closed track. This module will take the candidate around cones with random oil blots around the place. This is to teach the candidate about skid control. The candidate will also have a reaction test. When driving around the closed circuit, the tester will, at random and without warning, slap the dashboard, the candidate will have to bring the vehicle to a halt without locking the wheels and without cutting out.

Only after passing these modules should a candidate be awarded his or her license.

An instant fail will be given in the test for failing to keep left unless overtaking, overtaking vehicles on the inside, misuse of lights (ie, using parking lights when driving) and for driving <90% of the posted speed limit when conditions don't require it and you will have to start from scratch with theory again.

Looking forward to what other posters have to say

SmartinMartin · 13-12-2016 01:59AM

I would introduce a voluntary theory class in school just after inter cert, couple of hours a week with interim exams. Let it add extra points towards leaving cert results.

Dravokivich · 13-12-2016 08:04AM

I think there should be some sort of Training Centres available to book as part of lessons to develop skills earlier, off the public roads. I found the behaviour of other drivers a nuisance as a learner while I was still getting to grips with using the car, while clearly in an instructors car.

dfeo wrote: »

I'd start with beefing up the theory section, with more detailed questions on lane discipline and roundabout usage. I'd also include questions in the theory exam about car maintenance and general upkeep of the car. I'd also include questions on light usage and thorough emphasis on unsafe road behavior.

Most of that would be considered practical as opposed to theory. To be honest, I wouldn't be all too bothered about car maintenance other than urging the need for regular servicing.

dfeo wrote: »

I'd make first aid classes mandatory for getting your license and mandatory lessons in tackling small fires.

I'd introduce mandatory lessons in urban, rural and motorway settings each to be held during the day and during the night.

So there'd be day time urban lessons, day time rural lessons and day time motorway lessons. You'll then have to pass a test driving in these three different environments during the day.

Once the day time module is complete, you'll then have to take lessons after dusk in a rural setting, lessons after dusk in an urban setting and lessons after dusk on a motorway setting and then pass a module in this setting.

As part of the EDT course there's already a Night Time lesson required. When did you do lessons? Also it's not particularly easy to do tests in all those road scenarios and if one is unavailable, are you to be excluded from it? The test would become way too long also and if it was for both night and day driving, meaning 2 different test sessions? kind of hard to set up, especially during the summer.

13-12-2016 08:15AM

There should be off road driving training centres where all drivers must reach a minimum level of driving competency before being allowed on the road.
Dual Carriageway and Motorway driving training should have a minimum number of hours practice and lessons and also be part of the practical test.
Driving tests (theory and practical) should be mandatory every 10 years with licence revocation if it is failed.
Certain driving offences should require the offender to take additional driver training. E.g Driving against the flow of traffic on a roundabout or Dual Carriageway.

drunkmonkey · 13-12-2016 08:24AM

First aid/ cpr etc should be mandatory in school think it over complicates the driving test.

You should have to change a tyre, check tryre pressure, check window washer and oil levels.

Obtain a licence for one other type or vehicle before your entitled to a 'full licence" be it bike, truck, car with trailer etc. I think it's essential you have some understanding as a motorist your actions can have on other road users.

Middle lane / outside lane exam, fail that and you should be banished to the wall.

ShadowHearth · 13-12-2016 08:46AM

1.Go do theory test
2. Go do your 20 hours of driving lessons with instructor.
3.Do your driving exam.

If you pass, you get driving license and only after this moment you are allowed on the road. Which ever you failed - redo.

Scrap whole provisional driving license and people just taking a piss with it and insurance taking even bigger piss.

PixelTrawler · 13-12-2016 08:56AM

Motorway instruction... and how to use lights properly.
Indicators and fog lights seem to confuse many.

And how to use multi lane roads properly.

Also as part of education, checking of bulbs - as we get deeper into winter we get more and more cyclops on the roads. People should be trained to not even want to drive with a blown bulb (of course bulbs go while driving but many drive for a long time with one bulb, or as I saw last night two blown bulbs and a single lit fog light).

tossy · 13-12-2016 08:59AM

Classes in secondary schools.
Motorways to be introduced at both instruction and testing levels.
Skid pan also to be introduced at above levels.
Some sort of retest every 10 years, some of the worst driving i see on the roads is not from people with L or N plates it's from middle-aged men who i presume have held a full license for many years.

irish_goat · 13-12-2016 09:01AM

First aid/cpr should be taught in school. Why bother making drivers learn it when you can just have the entire population with the knowledge?

seamus · 13-12-2016 09:03AM

A lot of the stuff I would have said in the past has actually been implemented, like a minimum time between getting a provisional and taking the test, mandatory hours with accredited instructors, recognition of newly qualified versus experienced drivers, etc.

We're a long way better than we were even 10 years ago. Though I'm still blown away that the test doesn't include at least 15 minutes of motorway driving.

I still think there should be a third category of driving licence based on the advanced driving curriculum taught by the IAM. This licence can reflect the fact that the driver has a set amount of experience on the road and has taken a far tougher course to achieve it.
As this would come with more favourable insurance premiums, lots of people would be dying to get it, especially employers.

You can attach stricter conditions to this licence - force a new test every 5/10 years and if you get 4 points you're kicked back down to a regular licence for at least 12 months.

Wanderer78 · 13-12-2016 09:11AM

Most definitely introduction to driving in our educational system, with regular 'soft' testing thereafter, with mandatory retesting upon failure. All paid for by general taxation, I.e. road tax etc

Golfgorfield · 13-12-2016 09:15AM

I would introduce the following courses to improve how people commute on th eN7/M50

1: Diploma in make up application while driving over 50mph.
2: Advanced hard shoulder usage with added indicator to make it ok.
3: Masters in electric shaver use while weaving through busy traffic.
4: 3 week course on how to get from the off ramp to the right hand lane in less than 100metres.

Oh wait these are already well under way.

Rave.ef · 13-12-2016 09:27AM

Unfortunately no matter what is done we will always have the few who once they get the license seem to forget most of the rules of the road. There has been a large improvement in the last few years because of the 12 mandatory lessons but it would be no harm to have some sort of mandatory class for renewal of you're license. Similar to the cpc that hgv drivers have to do every year but focused more on the excellent points already made on this thread.

Rubberchikken · 13-12-2016 09:34AM

motorway instruction. lane discipline on roundabouts. adhering to the speed limits (they are limits after all). indicating. lights (turn them on).

also i'd have a curfew on under 25's on an L plate. limits on speed for L and N plates with heavy points/fines when caught.

loss of licence if arrested for drink/dangerous driving or driving that ends up killing someone. this innocent until proven guilty is grand but if a person is arrested for ^^^ then allowing them to drive around while waiting on a hearing is silly.
could think of more but driving and quality of driving in this country depresses me.

Germancarfan · 13-12-2016 09:40AM

I would say that after the 2 years N plate there should be another brief assessment before getting the full licence.
Any points incurred during this time push you back to full theory and retest with some focused lesson requirements around the area you incurred points , namely a safety module.

You should not be able to get insured on anything over 100bhp / bigger than 1.2 and no modifications allowed until you have a full licence.
Or akin to the motorbike licence a power to weight ratio which is probably more appropriate.

And by insured I mean principle or named driver status should not be allowed. No glanza turbo/cam/skyline/gti in mammy's name with little johnny as named driver untill you have the proper full licence.

munchkin_utd · 13-12-2016 09:40AM

I let my provisional lapse and never got the full licence, so ended up doing it in Germany.
There you must do 14 theory lessons, and to be honest having done its a great idea.

Theres lessons on nitty gritty theory / rules of the road, but also ones dedicated to spotting dangers on road. It was all very interactive so thered be an animated scene of you driving through an estate and you guess what happens next (of course a child runs out in front of you !) and that sort of thing.
Even the theory lessons were fairly interesting, again with lots of "what happens next" scenarios on motorways and national roads to get you thinking of what is the correct/ safe thing to do.

Learning the rules of the road as rules is one thing, but seeing where everything fits in to keep you and other road users safe is different and cannot be achieved by rote learning answers from a book.
So, as much as it adds to the cost and hassle of getting a licence, I'd say bringing in theory (/ road safety) lessons would be a step forward.

Trojan · 13-12-2016 09:56AM

Require that applicants tet experience cycling in town and heavy traffic in particular.

I think if more drivers experienced what it's like to cycle in those conditions they'd be more understanding of certain decisions (lane positioning, avoiding some bike lanes, etc).

ironclaw · 13-12-2016 10:02AM

There definitely should be a second test at the end of your provisional period. I think in Canada its called a G licence and it covers you to drive on Highways, and you have three years to do it once you pass your original test.

Rave.ef · 13-12-2016 10:04AM

Trojan wrote: »

Require that applicants tet experience cycling in town and heavy traffic in particular.

I think if more drivers experienced what it's like to cycle in those conditions they'd be more understanding of certain decisions (lane positioning, avoiding some bike lanes, etc).

Same should be required of cyclists spend a day in hgv and buses particularly attics. Simple avoidable accidents ruin lives.

neris · 13-12-2016 11:00AM

Rave.ef wrote: »

Same should be required of cyclists spend a day in hgv and buses particularly attics. Simple avoidable accidents ruin lives.

car drivers could do the same

Dravokivich · 13-12-2016 11:09AM

Germancarfan wrote: »

I would say that after the 2 years N plate there should be another brief assessment before getting the full licence.
Any points incurred during this time push you back to full theory and retest with some focused lesson requirements around the area you incurred points , namely a safety module.

You should not be able to get insured on anything over 100bhp / bigger than 1.2 and no modifications allowed until you have a full licence.
Or akin to the motorbike licence a power to weight ratio which is probably more appropriate.

And by insured I mean principle or named driver status should not be allowed. No glanza turbo/cam/skyline/gti in mammy's name with little johnny as named driver untill you have the proper full licence.

Why should that only be for Novice drivers? 2 stages of progression for a License via Learner Permit and Novice status is enough.

Charles Babbage · 13-12-2016 11:15AM

In this day and age it should be possible to devise a realistic simulator where people could be exposed to unusual conditions, in addition to testing on the road.

scamalert · 13-12-2016 11:26AM

For motor,obvious would be educating people on using indicators,and in many cases those that are driving long time should know better then to go into roundabout and fly out whenever it suits them.

Tyre changing mandatory-male/female since many dont know how to even jack a car properly yet to use wrench.

topping up oils,coolant,windscreen washer liquid,tire pressure is another since many dont have clue what sort of pressure they have to get their tires at,or do any of above,so basic maintenance should be a must.
Also best one would be to know when to fkoff to hard shoulder,if dragging mile behind yourself and road ahead is empty -guess thats more to day dreamers and older generation,when they cant asses road properly.

H3llR4iser · 13-12-2016 11:41AM

Issue number 1 should be the scrapping of the whole "Learner permit" nonsense; It's a good idea in principle but one that has been thoroughly abused in Ireland over the decades. It's not too bad now in Dublin, but get outside the city and almost every second car has a big red "L" slapped on...and one person inside.

The problem is that a lot of people think of the learner permit still as a "provisional license" and don't understand they, in fact, do not possess a driving license at all; A permit to drive a vehicle for the intent of training should not look like a license at all and have a very close expiry date - 6 months at maximum, so that it A-doesn't give the false feeling of "having a license" (I do know a couple of people who think along these lines - if you point out it's a learner's permit and not a license, they reply "same thing, just a different colour!") and B-Gives the holder the "hurry up" to actually learn and take the exam.

It should also come with heavier limitations - such as the inability to carry passengers other than the accompanying fully licensed driver; The latter should also be holding a same category (or above) license for a long period of time, say 10 years minimum, to avoid scenarios where an 17 years old "L" driver just drives around with his/her mates in the car and the excuse that one of them is 19 and has a license - that's called "cruisin'" lads, not "learning to drive"

Advanced training in car control (oversteer/understeer/low surface adehesion and so on) and at high speed would be extremely welcome, but it's not an exclusively Irish problem.

Agree with the basics - checking fluid levels, changing a wheel (looking at you, lady in the corner...yes, you can change a wheel without needing a "white knight"), basic dynamics (know if your bloody car is RWD or FWD, and what it means).

Driving instructors should be reviewed also - I've seen plenty of them having learners drive in the middle of a three-lanes dual carriageway, and jumping there right from the slip road; Means these instructors themselves have very little idea about what they're doing. Ah, and do not bloody park the car at every red light...

seamus · 13-12-2016 01:00PM

Rave.ef wrote: »

Same should be required of cyclists spend a day in hgv and buses particularly attics. Simple avoidable accidents ruin lives.

neris wrote: »

car drivers could do the same

I'd be inclined to think that it should all start with a basic introduction course that lasts a week or two and involves practical experience in all sorts of vehicles.

In order to drive a forklift you have to attend a course lasting 3-5 days. But in order to drive a car, with a far greater potential for havoc, you only need to do 12 hours.

It's mental when you think about it.

The car was introduced with the idea that anybody can drive it, and since then we've constantly resisted the fact that not everybody should.

InTheTrees · 13-12-2016 01:06PM

I have to do a "flight review" every two years to keep my pilots license so how about a driving re-test every five years?

Wanderer78 · 13-12-2016 01:09PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

I have to do a "flight review" every two years to keep my pilots license so how about a driving re-test every five years?

and the cost covered under general road taxes etc. id make it a mandatory 'soft' test firstly, failure of that, a full retest

Alun · 13-12-2016 01:12PM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The problem is that a lot of people think of the learner permit still as a "provisional license" and don't understand they, in fact, do not possess a driving license at all; ...

Absolutely agree 100%, and this confusion is propagated by people referring to the driving licence as a "full" licence, as if there's any other kind. In theory, the renaming of the "provisional" licence to "Learners permit" should have helped, but the old name, and it's perception as some kind of second-class driving licence, whose only side effect was that you paid higher insurance, unfortunately lives on.

InTheTrees · 13-12-2016 01:13PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

and the cost covered under general road taxes etc. id make it a mandatory 'soft' test firstly, failure of that, a full retest

Yes. A refresher. With the threat of a re-test if you fail.

Wanderer78 · 13-12-2016 01:16PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yes. A refresher. With the threat of a re-test if you fail.

no need for treats at all, most drivers are adults and have enough **** going on in their lives. failure = full re-test, again covered under general road taxes etc

mada999 · 13-12-2016 01:20PM

Parallel parking is a must imo

Voodoomelon · 13-12-2016 01:58PM

In regards the motorway testing, why isn't it included? What's the reason?

Dravokivich · 13-12-2016 02:13PM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In regards the motorway testing, why isn't it included? What's the reason?

You can't legally drive on a motorway as a Learner. Until that gets changed you won't be able to do a test on it. An examiner will not do anything that'll endorse an illegal activity during the test.

Wanderer78 · 13-12-2016 02:15PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

You can't legally drive on a motorway as a Learner. Until that gets changed you won't be able to do a test on it. An examiner will not do anything that'll endorse an illegal activity during the test.

thankfully we re all shown how to drive on motorways by other means:rolleyes:

Dravokivich · 13-12-2016 02:20PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

thankfully we re all shown how to drive on motorways by other means:rolleyes:

It shouldn't be any different to driving on a dual carraigeway. But what would I know. I'm only a Learner :P

07Lapierre · 13-12-2016 02:37PM

scamalert wrote: »

For motor,obvious would be educating people on using indicators,and in many cases those that are driving long time should know better then to go into roundabout and fly out whenever it suits them.

Tyre changing mandatory-male/female since many dont know how to even jack a car properly yet to use wrench.

topping up oils,coolant,windscreen washer liquid,tire pressure is another since many dont have clue what sort of pressure they have to get their tires at,or do any of above,so basic maintenance should be a must.
Also best one would be to know when to fkoff to hard shoulder,if dragging mile behind yourself and road ahead is empty -guess thats more to day dreamers and older generation,when they cant asses road properly.

Most cars now don't come with a spare wheel, so teaching people how to change a wheel change is not required.

I'd like to see more training for people in what to do if they hear an ambulance approaching!

Del2005 · 13-12-2016 03:13PM

Alun wrote: »

Absolutely agree 100%, and this confusion is propagated by people referring to the driving licence as a "full" licence, as if there's any other kind. In theory, the renaming of the "provisional" licence to "Learners permit" should have helped, but the old name, and it's perception as some kind of second-class driving licence, whose only side effect was that you paid higher insurance, unfortunately lives on.

That was the point of renaming the "Provisional Licence" to "Learners Permit" but as usual our lack of enforcement and insurance companies willingness to cover unlicenced drivers completely negated the point.

The vast majority of the problems on our roads is due to lack of enforcement not testing/training. I did the driving test in Ireland and Oregon, the OR one was a bigger joke than ours. Yet in the US people always stop at Stop Signs and obey lower speed limits outside schools and I found lane discipline was better than here. So they have a worst test yet better drivers!

Biggest problem with the US is everyone drink drives and practices the sobriety test.

07Lapierre · 13-12-2016 04:21PM

Trojan wrote: »

Require that applicants tet experience cycling in town and heavy traffic in particular.

I think if more drivers experienced what it's like to cycle in those conditions they'd be more understanding of certain decisions (lane positioning, avoiding some bike lanes, etc).

To Drive a HGV, you must learn to drive a truck! (which is already the case)
To drive a Truck, you must learn to drive a car. (which is already the case)
To Drive a car, you must learn to ride a motorbike,
To Drive a motorbike, you must Learn to cycle

13-12-2016 05:08PM

PixelTrawler wrote: »

Motorway instruction... and how to use lights properly.
Indicators and fog lights seem to confuse many.

And how to use multi lane roads properly.

Also as part of education, checking of bulbs - as we get deeper into winter we get more and more cyclops on the roads. People should be trained to not even want to drive with a blown bulb (of course bulbs go while driving but many drive for a long time with one bulb, or as I saw last night two blown bulbs and a single lit fog light).

Car manufacturers should be banned from producing cars where an average driver is unable to change the bulb in a few minutes in the dark!

Germancarfan · 13-12-2016 05:21PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why should that only be for Novice drivers? 2 stages of progression for a License via Learner Permit and Novice status is enough.

it shoudl be for both Novice and Learner. Novice has a fixed time period attached so it's bracketed nicely. Once you get the full licence it's then service as normal.

Overall i believe that x amount of penalty points should be an auto retest and a lesser amount should be a mandatory driver training / safety course

InTheTrees · 13-12-2016 05:38PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

In this day and age it should be possible to devise a realistic simulator where people could be exposed to unusual conditions, in addition to testing on the road.

A good idea. But can you imagine the waiting list? It'd take ten years,to get a license.

H3llR4iser · 13-12-2016 06:27PM

InTheTrees wrote: »

A good idea. But can you imagine the waiting list? It'd take ten years,to get a license.

It shouldn't be neither complex nor very expensive; It's a different kettle of fish from, say, a full on aviation simulator. There are already commercial products that do a terrific job simulating the physics and driving model of a wide range of cars/trucks, so making a software that simulates with good accuracy the characteristics of a small set of vehicles (small car, full-size car, truck, bus, lorry) in a limited set of conditions (full grip, poor adehesion, low visibility and so on) shouldn't pose a big technical challenge.

The problem in my view comes with the actual usefulness of such system; In most driving-related scenarios, panicked response towards physical forces and reactions from the car plays a decisive role; Many, many people either get scared, completely lose control or freeze whenever they feel anything unexpected from their vehicle - be it a sharp pull on one side while braking on uneven surfaces, snap oversteer on oil/ice or a sudden loss of tire pressure.

I also frankly think simulators work with pilots because these individuals are professionally trained and are driven to work towards a set goal - and also, you just wouldn't let them crash a 737 for training; Random people just going through the "chore" of getting a license wouldn't take it seriously and just consider it a "videogame".

All in all, probably a car park and a 1000€ old Panda or Corsa have the potential to teach more than any other approach...

Dravokivich · 14-12-2016 10:10AM

Germancarfan wrote: »

it shoudl be for both Novice and Learner. Novice has a fixed time period attached so it's bracketed nicely. Once you get the full licence it's then service as normal.

Overall i believe that x amount of penalty points should be an auto retest and a lesser amount should be a mandatory driver training / safety course

They already have a lower amount of penalty points to be disqualified.

My point about challenging your finger pointed towards novices, was that some could then end up in a constant novice loop. But current drivers out there who are "experienced" in time driving only and not ability, once disqualified, just apply for the license again after the time is up.

And what does that have to do about kindling a better standard of driver training?

07Lapierre · 14-12-2016 12:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Car manufacturers should be banned from producing cars where an average driver is unable to change the bulb in a few minutes in the dark!

I deal with "Joe Public" daily and Its my opinion that the vast majority wouldn't change a bulb even if they could!

People are too busy and in too much of a hurry nowadays to do anything with their cars!

If you could redesign the driving education system,what would you do?

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