Disqualified in NZ

Santrack · 12-01-2017 8:46pm #1

Hi I moved to New Zealand a year ago and exchanged my Irish licence for a New Zealand one. I was disqualified from driving on the New Zealand licence, I am now back in Ireland will the disqualification affect me getting back my Irish licence?, thanks

TheUnderfaker · 12-01-2017 8:47pm

Yes

Santrack · 12-01-2017 8:53pm

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

Yes

Thanks for reply, Can you expand a bit?

TheUnderfaker · 12-01-2017 9:02pm

Santrack wrote: »

Thanks for reply, Can you expand a bit?

From what I understand, you'll need to trade in your NZ licence to get an Irish one. The department of transport will consult their NZ counterparts to make sure you're entitled to the swap.

I'm not sure if other options are available to you

punisher5112 · 13-01-2017 10:22am

Is it not possible to have both?
Could one not just re apply for old Irish one as change of address or lost?

n97 mini · 13-01-2017 10:42am

punisher5112 wrote: »

Is it not possible to have both?
Could one not just re apply for old Irish one as change of address or lost?

What happens then if the OP is involved in a serious accident and it's revealed they were banned from driving in NZ? That could end with a custodial sentence.

punisher5112 · 13-01-2017 1:03pm

n97 mini wrote: »

What happens then if the OP is involved in a serious accident and it's revealed they were banned from driving in NZ? That could end with a custodial sentence.

Its not recognised out of state unless in the UK.

A small fine may be imposed depending on countries otherwise.

Example if banned in UK then you shouldn't drive in Ireland either but at the moment no others follow such terms.

Marcusm · 13-01-2017 8:47pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Its not recognised out of state unless in the UK.

A small fine may be imposed depending on countries otherwise.

Example if banned in UK then you shouldn't drive in Ireland either but at the moment no others follow such terms.

Except that the OP has no licence to exchange for an Irish one!

Santrack · 13-01-2017 9:19pm

Marcusm wrote: »

Except that the OP has no licence to exchange for an Irish one!

Don't understand what you mean by this can you explain please?

cython · 13-01-2017 9:26pm

Santrack wrote: »

Don't understand what you mean by this can you explain please?

Pretty simple, I'd have thought - when you are disqualified from driving "Any licence card held by you at the time of your suspension or disqualification will have been permanently cancelled."

Therefore you do not have a valid NZ licence to exchange for an Irish licence.

Source: https://www.nzta.govt.nz/driver-licences/driving-offences-and-penalties/getting-your-licence-back/

GM228 · 13-01-2017 9:33pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Is it not possible to have both?

An EU resident can't hold more than one driving licence.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Could one not just re apply for old Irish one as change of address or lost?

When you exchange your licence the issuing authority contacts the origial issuing authority to check that there are no restrictions etc, they then return the original licence to the issuing authority who cancle the licence and record it has been exchanged.

If the OP then tried to say they lost their licence or change of address the NDLS would know their previous Irish licence was exchanged for a NZ one and cancled.

punisher5112 wrote: »

n97 mini wrote: »

What happens then if the OP is involved in a serious accident and it's revealed they were banned from driving in NZ? That could end with a custodial sentence.

Its not recognised out of state unless in the UK.

Yes and no.

Yes - you are correct mutual recognition only applies between Ireland and the UK and nowhere else in the EU in relation to existing licences, for example someone who is banned in the UK or Ireland is automatically banned in the other country irrespective of having a UK or Irish licence. This was originally bilaterally agreed under the now revoked 1998 EU Convention on Driving Disqualifications, the convention was revoked in 2015 leaving no legal framework in Ireland for the operation of the recognition (the UK had it's own legal framework in place already), but the recently enacted Road Traffic Act 2016 has once again brought the recognition into operation by giving it the necessary legal framework here.

No - when it comes to licence exchange you can't exchange an EU/EEA licence which is restricted, suspended or withdrawn and AFAIK this also applies to the recognised non EU/EEA licences under the agreements made.

punisher5112 wrote: »

A small fine may be imposed depending on countries otherwise.

Not sure what you mean by this? No fine can be issued for such or do you mean in some other countries they may issue a small fine?

Santrack wrote: »

I am now back in Ireland will the disqualification affect me getting back my Irish licence?, thanks

Where you required to surrender your NZ licence or not? Usually you are! If you were the NDLS will return the NZ licence to them and will not issue you the Irish licence.

Secondly (assuming there was no issues preventing the issue of an Irish licence) a rather unusual situation has presented itself here in your circumstances - an Irish licence issued in exchange for a NZ licence will be restricted to automatic vehicles only (even if the NZ licence has no such restriction) unless you present proof from NZ Transport Agency showing you undertook a manual driving test with them, something which you can't do because you exchanged your original Irish licence for the NZ licence in the first place. A bit of a catch 22.

Cookie_Monster · 13-01-2017 9:41pm

GM228 wrote: »

An EU resident can't hold more than one driving licence.

I have my Irish licence and an NZ one.
My wife didn't get her Irish one back though.

punisher5112 · 13-01-2017 9:43pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I have my Irish licence and an NZ one.
My wife didn't get her Irish one back though.

I know of a few that have also.

Including ones in the u.s.a

I've known some exchanged then went back and got another as replacement for original country.

Santrack · 13-01-2017 9:48pm

GM228 wrote: »

An EU resident can't hold more than one driving licence.

When you exchange your licence the issuing authority contacts the origial issuing authority to check that there are no restrictions etc, they then return the original licence to the issuing authority who cancle the licence and record it has been exchanged.

If the OP then tried to say they lost their licence or change of address the NDLS would know their previous Irish licence was exchanged for a NZ one and cancled.

Yes and no.

Yes - you are correct mutual recognition only applies between Ireland and the UK and nowhere else in the EU in relation to existing licences, for example someone who is banned in the UK or Ireland is automatically banned in the other country irrespective of having a UK or Irish licence. This was originally bilaterally agreed under the now revoked 1998 EU Convention on Driving Disqualifications, the convention was revoked in 2015 leaving no legal framework in Ireland for the operation of the recognition (the UK had it's own legal framework in place already), but the recently enacted Road Traffic Act 2016 has once again brought the recognition into operation by giving it the necessary legal framework here.

No - when it comes to licence exchange you can't exchange an EU/EEA licence which is restricted, suspended or withdrawn and AFAIK this also applies to the recognised non EU/EEA licences under the agreements made.

Not sure what you mean by this? No fine can be issued for such or do you mean in some other countries they may issue a small fine?

Where you required to surrender your NZ licence or not? Usually you are! If you were the NDLS will return the NZ licence to them and will not issue you the Irish licence.

Secondly (assuming there was no issues preventing the issue of an Irish licence) a rather unusual situation has presented itself here in your circumstances - an Irish licence issued in exchange for a NZ licence will be restricted to automatic vehicles only (even if the NZ licence has no such restriction) unless you present proof from NZ Transport Agency showing you undertook a manual driving test with them, something which you can't do because you exchanged your original Irish licence for the NZ licence in the first place. A bit of a catch 22.

Thanks for all your help yes had to surrender nz licence is there a way of finding out the status of my Irish license?can I drive in Ireland now? Thanks

punisher5112 · 13-01-2017 9:53pm

Santrack wrote: »

Thanks for all your help yes had to surrender nz licence is there a way of finding out the status of my Irish license?can I drive in Ireland now? Thanks

Could always apply for it and see.

As I've said know a few holding Irish and non EU licrnces.

GM228 · 13-01-2017 9:54pm

Santrack wrote: »

Thanks for all your help yes had to surrender nz licence is there a way of finding out the status of my Irish license?can I drive in Ireland now? Thanks

Your Irish licence was cancled as you exchanged it for a NZ one, you now have no licence to drive.

Santrack · 13-01-2017 10:01pm

GM228 wrote: »

Your Irish licence was cancled as you exchanged it for a NZ one, you now have no licence to drive.

I'm not sure it is cancelled don't think it is that clear cut

jimmycrackcorm · 13-01-2017 10:09pm

Santrack wrote:

I'm not sure it is cancelled don't think it is that clear cut

It depends on whether the NZ authorities simply accepted the irish licence and swapped it, or contacted the irish authority to get it cancelled.

Still, requesting a replacement here requires a declaration about what happened to the original.

GM228 · 13-01-2017 10:20pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It depends on whether the NZ authorities simply accepted the irish licence and swapped it, or contacted the irish authority to get it cancelled.

Still, requesting a replacement here requires a declaration about what happened to the original.

The conditions of the exchange agreements require the licences to be returned to the NDLS (and vice versa).

All recognised exchanges must conform with the provisions of EU law on driving licences which does not allow anybody in the EU to hold more than one licence which is why the old licence is cancled.

magicbastarder · 13-01-2017 10:54pm

so, why were you disqualified?

Santrack · 13-01-2017 11:02pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

so, why were you disqualified?

Caught speeding twice judge didn't like Irish

magicbastarder · 14-01-2017 12:10am

how did you end up in front of a judge? do they not have the same system of FPNs like in ireland?
http://www.police.govt.nz/faq/what-are-the-fines-for-speeding

Del2005 · 14-01-2017 11:48am

magicbastarder wrote: »

how did you end up in front of a judge? do they not have the same system of FPNs like in ireland?
http://www.police.govt.nz/faq/what-are-the-fines-for-speeding

Must of been more than 50 over the limit, twice.

howiya · 14-01-2017 12:47pm

Santrack wrote: »

Caught speeding twice judge didn't like Irish

Judge didn't like Irish... That's probably something you could have appealed if it was the real reason

Santrack · 14-01-2017 5:21pm

howiya wrote: »

Judge didn't like Irish... That's probably something you could have appealed if it was the real reason

Great

Cookie_Monster · 14-01-2017 9:23pm

GM228 wrote: »

The conditions of the exchange agreements require the licences to be returned to the NDLS (and vice versa).

All recognised exchanges must conform with the provisions of EU law on driving licences which does not allow anybody in the EU to hold more than one licence which is why the old licence is cancled.

apart from when it's not. I still have both, no issues getting the Irish one back after it was checked.

Fred Swanson · 14-01-2017 10:47pm

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Marcusm · 15-01-2017 11:05am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Assuming that they are for the same category, the member state which issued the second licence has a positive obligation under the 2006 directive to cancel the licence. I didn't but it ever happens, however.

GM228 · 15-01-2017 11:45am

Marcusm wrote: »

Assuming that they are for the same category, the member state which issued the second licence has a positive obligation under the 2006 directive to cancel the licence. I didn't but it ever happens, however.

The member state which issued the second licence must return the original licence to the origial issuing authority, the licence is cancled via what is known as the RESPER system which is linked to all issuing authorities, however the system is only live a few years now and several countries were taken to the ECJ over their failures to link with the system as recent as early 2016 meaning that prior to the introduction of the system there was issues of more than one licence being issued.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 15-01-2017 11:58am

No you will not be disqualified here. NZ law has no jurisdiction here.

Marcusm · 15-01-2017 2:01pm

GM228 wrote: »

The member state which issued the second licence must return the original licence to the origial issuing authority, the licence is cancled via what is known as the RESPER system which is linked to all issuing authorities, however the system is only live a few years now and several countries were taken to the ECJ over their failures to link with the system as recent as early 2016 meaning that prior to the introduction of the system there was issues of more than one licence being issued.

I was responding to Fred's comments about individuals he knew who had licences from 2 EU member states; it happens and it shouldn't. These are not lovely cencecexchange issues but individuals who have sat tests in different countries.

15-01-2017 2:41pm

GM228 wrote: »

An EU resident can't hold more than one driving licence.

More than one EU licence maybe but it can't apply to all licences. If I go to the US for a few months for exampe it's advisable to get a US licence. You do the test to get your licence so don't have to hand in your eu licence nor would you want to as you will want your eu licence when you return home again and you cannot exchange a us licence for an eu licence.

Fred Swanson · 15-01-2017 2:44pm

This post has been deleted.

ironclaw · 15-01-2017 5:27pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

No you will not be disqualified here. NZ law has no jurisdiction here.

Except your insurance company will ask you if you have any previous convictions or disqualifications for driving offences. This is all inclusive and its worded very carefully for that reason. Its not specific to Ireland, the EU or any jurisdiction. So regardless of if you can get a drivers licence or not, you'll have a very hard time getting insured here in Ireland.

You can also be damn sure if you were involved in something here and it came to light that you hadn't declared a disqualification that the insurance company would happily pay out the claim, then take you to the cleaners for the full amount.

I'd seek legal advice OP.

frozenfrozen · 15-01-2017 5:54pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You could just get a replacement EU license? How the **** would anyone know it was in nevada

Marcusm · 15-01-2017 8:13pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Why would they take your licence in the first place; there's no exchange agreement AFAIK.

Fred Swanson · 15-01-2017 8:19pm

This post has been deleted.

Santrack · 15-01-2017 8:27pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Except your insurance company will ask you if you have any previous convictions or disqualifications for driving offences. This is all inclusive and its worded very carefully for that reason. Its not specific to Ireland, the EU or any jurisdiction. So regardless of if you can get a drivers licence or not, you'll have a very hard time getting insured here in Ireland.

You can also be damn sure if you were involved in something here and it came to light that you hadn't declared a disqualification that the insurance company would happily pay out the claim, then take you to the cleaners for

the full amount.

I'd seek legal advice OP.

Thanks for your advice, I've received a certificate of particulars the equivalent of a letter of entitlement from nz transport agency, it says subject held a license but the licence is and in a box marked disqualified there is an "x" and beside that in a box marked reinstate there is also an "x"
Does this mean they are saying that NDLS can reinstate my Irish licence?
Thanks

ironclaw · 15-01-2017 10:04pm

Santrack wrote: »

Thanks for your advice, I've received a certificate of particulars the equivalent of a letter of entitlement from nz transport agency, it says subject held a license but the licence is and in a box marked disqualified there is an "x" and beside that in a box marked reinstate there is also an "x"
Does this mean they are saying that NDLS can reinstate my Irish licence?
Thanks

No idea. Technically speaking, the piece of plastic you hold is not your licence. Your licence resides with the Minister of Transport. You plastic bit is merely an indicator that such a record exists. You'll need to get on to NDLS and state your position, its their job to check up on it. You have nothing to loose as you should be openly declaring it anyway to them as you have an awful lot to lose if it ever comes back to bite you.

Your insurance is still going to be a problem however. The question is:

Have you ever been disqualified?

Not:

Are you currently disqualified?

Many, many insurers won't even go near anyone who has been disqualified or has a significant enough driving conviction against them. I know NZ is tough on speeding so perhaps they'll take that into account as its not a 'serious' disqualification versus say drink driving, but you could be in for a lengthy process to get it squared away. Good thing you have the docs though, if you haven't left NZ yet I'd get as many originals as you can and bring them back with you.

I'd give NDLS a call first and get that process in motion. Then I'd ring a few insurers and give them your details as if you had an Irish license with a disqualification against it. It will give you a better idea if its even worth pursuing, the cost could be astronomical.

16-01-2017 10:14am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

All you need to do is report your Irish one lost and get a new one.

Fred Swanson · 16-01-2017 10:16am

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16-01-2017 11:25am

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I assume if you get the Irish one you will have to hand in the US licence. Be handy to keep both.

Disqualified in NZ

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