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I think the golden era of diesel cars is over

  • 07-05-2017 06:00PM
    #1
    CJmasgrande
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 480 ✭✭


    I see lots of stories in the media recently about diesel cars being phased out for pollution reasons.

    Phased out by:

    Higher vehicle taxes and higher fuel taxes
    Scrappage insentives

    If I'm investing in a new car it seems to be very risky investing a lot of money into a new diesel right now.

    I suppose we might get a better idea what's happening after the next budget :(


«134567

Comments

  • #2
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,315 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Putting higher taxes and duty on fuel will make everything expensive as haulage costs will go up. They really need to have a fuel for trucks that is cheaper than a fuel for diesel cars.
    The cost of petrol is key when buying a diesel. We all likes diesels as the fuel is cheaper, they need to cut taxes and duty on petrols so a litre of petrol is roughly 1.10 a litre. We would all use a petrol car if that was the case.


  • #3
    goz83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭goz83


    Let's hope you're right OP. The majority of people driving diesel cars shouldn't be driving diesel cars. Chape tax is the main reason they bought diesel.


  • #4
    ibFoxer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,469 ✭✭✭ibFoxer


    goz83 wrote: »
    Let's hope you're right OP. The majority of people driving diesel cars shouldn't be driving diesel cars. Chape tax is the main reason they bought diesel.

    I bought a diesel because my daily drive to and from work was approximately 70 minutes, and having come off a petrol car when diesel was 99.9 it was a no brainer, including the tax bonus. Bought a house in 2014 which is all of 5 minutes away from work and living in a town, and with petrol engines becoming more economical every year, i will likely go that route when i change. Although i'll be looking at something along the lines of an ix35 size, so may be stuck with diesel.


  • #5
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,677 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    The running costs after fuel on diesels is far more than petrol and reliablility because of dpf failure will eventually put people off, not much point in saving €200 or so in motor tax if the other costs are multiples of that per year.

    Our government is normally far behind sensible decisions, they also have to protect the cash cow that is car sales. The importation of cars brings in big VRT money and with Brexit, the fall of sterling and discouragement of diesels in UK cities I'd expect we will be seeing a steady flow of cheap cars up until Brexit. After Brexit car imports will collapse and the government will be more able to control the prices of cars.

    For me the farest system would be a fixed car permit charge per year regardless of engine size or emissions and manage peoples purchasing decisions from fuel taxes, ie the polluter causing most damage to human health pays most.


  • #6
    goz83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭goz83


    ibFoxer wrote: »
    I bought a diesel because my daily drive to and from work was approximately 70 minutes, and having come off a petrol car when diesel was 99.9 it was a no brainer, including the tax bonus. Bought a house in 2014 which is all of 5 minutes away from work and living in a town, and with petrol engines becoming more economical every year, i will likely go that route when i change. Although i'll be looking at something along the lines of an ix35 size, so may be stuck with diesel.

    70 minutes driving doesn't mean much. That could be a few kilometres across dublin city, or many more across a few counties. I will go ahead and assume that most of your journey was motorway and so diesel would make sense perhaps.

    With your commute being cut to 5 minutes, why choose diesel again? It seems like a no brainer to go petrol or electric.


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  • #7
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    People might be heralding the end of the golden age but Tucson CRDi's are still selling like hot cakes. I'd say it will be years before you see any serious decline in diesel cars sold


  • #8
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,677 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    People might be heralding the end of the golden age but Tucson CRDi's are still selling like hot cakes. I'd say it will be years before you see any serious decline in diesel cars sold

    Stick a modest 100 euro diesel vehicle levy on them and equalise the price of petrol to diesel and you will.


  • #9
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭grogi


    goz83 wrote: »
    Let's hope you're right OP. The majority of people driving diesel cars shouldn't be driving diesel cars. Chape tax is the main reason they bought diesel.

    Cheap vrt. That should go up.


  • #10
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭grogi


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    People might be heralding the end of the golden age but Tucson CRDi's are still selling like hot cakes. I'd say it will be years before you see any serious decline in diesel cars sold

    They sell because there isn't sensible alternative. The moment you want anything better than a box on wheels the diesel is the only option available.


  • #11
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    grogi wrote: »
    They sell because there isn't sensible alternative. The moment you want anything better than a box on wheels the diesel is the only option available.

    I suppose the dealers are egging that on big time moreso than the overlords, streamline the supply and sell lots of cars off-the-shelf without any of this special order messing. Can't even get a petrol 508 here I'd say.

    I'd nearly say we're after digging ourselves in too far at this stage, tis well engrained into our culture that Diesel is the only way to go and the stage for this was set way back down below in the 80's when diesels were rock solid simple machines and there wasn't enough traffic that time for people to worry about particulate matter. Some of the reactions I get when I tell people I've a petrol hilux are priceless


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  • #12
    Miike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Miike


    grogi wrote: »
    They sell because there isn't sensible alternative. The moment you want anything better than a box on wheels the diesel is the only option available.

    Get out of here with your logic and reasoning! :mad:

    I've said it before and I'll say it again; in order for a change in this country they need to incentivise change instead of forcing change by INCREASING cost and people resenting the change. Cheaper car tax on petrol vehicles and/or cheaper levy on petrol v diesel at the pump. I'll drive a Nutella powered car so long as it's financially intelligent and I think I fall into the same group as a lot of people on here by saying that. I didn't buy a diesel because I love the sound of a loud, rumbling, knocking diesel engine. I bought it because of my needs out of a car, it makes financial sense.

    and if I buy a >2.0 liter petrol I'll need another mortgage to insure it.


  • #13
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭grogi


    Miike wrote: »
    Get out of here with your logic and reasoning! :mad:

    There is only one Tucson petrol. A miserable one... Where is automatic i30 petrol? And the list is very long. Only VW and Skoda have sensible petrol options...

    All the rest are diesels - so what should the public buy?! If they want some gadget, autobox etc?
    I've said it before and I'll say it again; in order for a change in this country they need to incentivise change instead of forcing change by INCREASING cost and people resenting the change. Cheaper car tax on petrol vehicles and/or cheaper levy on petrol v diesel at the pump. I'll drive a Nutella powered car so long as it's financially intelligent and I think I fall into the same group as a lot of people on here by saying that. I didn't buy a diesel because I love the sound of a loud, rumbling, knocking diesel engine. I bought it because of my needs out of a car, it makes financial sense.

    For exactly the same reason new diesels should be more expensive than petrols than they are right now. That would encourage importers to bring more well equipped petrols.
    and if I buy a >2.0 liter petrol I'll need another mortgage to insure it.

    Putting aside the fact why would you need anything bigger than a new 2.0 petrol... A turbocharged 1.4 is more than adequate, while turbocharged 2.0 will blow the pants away of almost anyone...

    I haven't also noticed any significant difference in insurance for petrol and a diesels... A ten years old, performance oriented petrol costed me exactly the same as a new diesel mummy wagon...


  • #14
    oppenheimer1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    I've said it before here and I'll say it again. If anyone thinks a shift away from diesel will mean a move back to petrol they are sorely mistaken. For those that diesel isn't suitable for - i.e. frequent short trips, they will be transitioned to electric.

    Petrol is not coming back in a big way.


  • #15
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Other current threads with more info on the same topic
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103367876
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102765593
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=103353332


  • #16
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    The running costs after fuel on diesels is far more than petrol and reliablility because of dpf failure will eventually put people off, not much point in saving €200 or so in motor tax if the other costs are multiples of that per year.

    Why do people on boards regurgitate this myth over and over again.. :confused:


  • #17
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,212 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Swanner wrote: »
    Why do people on boards regurgitate this myth over and over again.. :confused:

    Because of the multitude of people with injection issues, turbo issues dpf issues..

    I'd imagine


  • #18
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,846 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Huge taxes on diesel is unfair on those people who need a diesel car to function.

    Many of us doing excess if 40k kms a year would be unduly punished if diesel was increased in price just to stop some idiot in a town doing 5k a year from buying a diesel car.

    Also a previous poster was right, diesel in many ways sways the price of all goods, drive diesel up in price and everything will follow - even petrol as it's drawn round the country by diesel vehicles.


  • #19
    biko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,219 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Swanner wrote: »
    Why do people on boards regurgitate this myth over and over again.. :confused:
    Here is your chance to dispel it.


  • #20
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    Swanner wrote: »
    Why do people on boards regurgitate this myth over and over again.. :confused:

    Because if you ask Any mechanic whether main dealer or independent, they'll tell you that 90% + of their work (outside of servicing) is on Diesel engines and is not wear and tear maintenance related. You may not have had a problem but many many others have.

    In my family (inc in laws) myself and my brother are the only two driving petrol cars, everyone else drives diesels and none of them do long journeys except one of my brother in laws. All of them have been without a car at some stage because of injector, flywheel, DMF or EGR problems. All of them bought their cars to avail of cheaper tax. All of them are dumbasses.


  • #21
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    biko wrote: »
    Here is your chance to dispel it.

    Well we've been here a few times before and the best anyone has come up with so far is that the front tyres wear quicker because the engine is heavier..

    Not the most convincing argument against owning a diesel really is it ?

    Thing is though.. I can't disprove the myth any more then you can prove it..

    Without data, and believe me I have searched, it's all just opinion, conjecture and personal experience on a message board.

    But therein lies the main problem.. lots of posters on here who love to tell everyone about all the woes and cost involved in owning a diesel yet they've never actually owned one themselves..

    So really all they're doing is regurgitating someone else's opinion in order to sound knowledgeable on the subject when in reality they haven't a clue.

    Someone else posted recently that you'd need to be doing 40k a year for diesel to be a viable option :confused: It's this kind of nonsense that gets spouted all the time and hinders any reasonable discussion on the topic.

    There's no doubt that we need to start moving away from diesel in private cars and take it out of our towns and cities and I would support any sensible move by the government to do this in a phased approach. But we also need to have viable alternatives in place while great strides have been made on this in recent years, we're just not quite there yet..


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  • #22
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,553 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    So you reckon the big shift will be back to petrol? Doubt it, if Tesla get it right we all could be shifting to electric in the very near future.


  • #23
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,846 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Because if you ask Any mechanic whether main dealer or independent, they'll tell you that 90% + of their work (outside of servicing) is on Diesel engines and is not wear and tear maintenance related. You may not have had a problem but many many others have.

    In my family (inc in laws) myself and my brother are the only two driving petrol cars, everyone else drives diesels and none of them do long journeys except one of my brother in laws. All of them have been without a car at some stage because of injector, flywheel, DMF or EGR problems. All of them bought their cars to avail of cheaper tax. All of them are dumbasses.

    DPF and EGR problems stem from the car not being driven enough and signals someone who isn't suited to having a diesel. I've driven diesel cars all my life and never had a problem with either.

    DMF problems stem partly from poor driving habits, running modern diesels in 6th gear and constantly labouring the engine back through the flywheel shakes them apart. I see people bummmg round in 6th doing 60/70kph thinking they are easy on diesel. Doing 1200/1400rpm.

    6th gear isn't needed on most cars unless you doing in excess of 100kph and keeping the car over 1800/ 2000rpm.


  • #24
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Because if you ask Any mechanic whether main dealer or independent, they'll tell you that 90% + of their work (outside of servicing) is on Diesel engines and is not wear and tear maintenance related. You may not have had a problem but many many others have.

    That's because all they're selling is diesel engines..

    But if you have actual data to say otherwise i'm open to correction..
    Vicxas wrote: »
    So you reckon the big shift will be back to petrol? Doubt it, if Tesla get it right we all could be shifting to electric in the very near future.

    Not at all..

    I think electric vehicles are an excellent alternative to petrol for city and urban driving.

    But we don't have a viable alternative for heavy goods haulage, public transport and long distance commuting..


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    People might be heralding the end of the golden age but Tucson CRDi's are still selling like hot cakes. I'd say it will be years before you see any serious decline in diesel cars sold

    It's been seen already.........plenty of new petrols sold now in comparison to a few years ago.


  • #26
    Vicxas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,553 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Swanner wrote: »
    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Because if you ask Any mechanic whether main dealer or independent, they'll tell you that 90% + of their work (outside of servicing) is on Diesel engines and is not wear and tear maintenance related. You may not have had a problem but many many others have.

    That's because all they're selling is diesel engines..

    But if you have actual data to say otherwise i'm open to correction..
    Vicxas wrote: »
    So you reckon the big shift will be back to petrol? Doubt it, if Tesla get it right we all could be shifting to electric in the very near future.

    Not at all..

    I think electric vehicles are an excellent alternative to petrol for city and urban driving.

    But we don't have a viable alternative for heavy goods haulage, public transport and long distance commuting..
    We'll all be taking Musks other baby, the Hyperloop :D


  • #27
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭grogi


    Augeo wrote: »
    It's been seen already.........plenty of new petrols sold now in comparison to a few years ago.

    WHERE?

    Figures Jan-Apr 2016/2017

    2016: Petrols 25780, Diesels 65550
    2017: Petrols 25075, Diesles 55609

    Sure - the market share of petrols and hybrids combined went up - from 28% in 2015, 29% in 2016 to 32% in 2017. Shocking...


  • #28
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,846 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Motor industry must be wetting themselves with excitement over this...

    They're cramming out diesels to every housewife in the country to do 5 minute school runs.. they get all the unnecessary maintenance that results.. then there is a turn against diesels because they are "troublesome" and they sell a host of petrol cars to replace them..


  • #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    grogi wrote: »
    WHERE?

    Figures Jan-Apr 2016/2017

    2016: Petrols 25780, Diesels 65550
    2017: Petrols 25075, Diesles 55609

    Sure - the market share of petrols and hybrids combined went up - from 28% in 2015, 29% in 2016 to 32% in 2017. Shocking...

    Did life begin in 2015?


  • #30
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭grogi


    Augeo wrote: »
    Did life begin in 2015?

    2010 - petrols were 32% market
    2013 - petrols were 27% of market

    Again... In 2017 after all dieselgate, experience with diesel repair bills etc - we are back to 2010 levels. And 2010 is already with new VRT/MotorTax rates...

    Don't get me to dig up 2007 figures ;)


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  • #31
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,677 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Swanner wrote: »
    Why do people on boards regurgitate this myth over and over again.. :confused:

    Basic diesel servicing costs are higher than a petrol, that is 100% fact.


  • #32
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭grogi


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Basic diesel servicing costs are higher than a petrol, that is 100% fact.

    What servicing item does cost more in a diesel? Oil, oil filter, air filter, pollen filter or spark plugs (oh, wait...)?!


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    grogi wrote: »
    WHERE?

    Figures Jan-Apr 2016/2017

    2016: Petrols 25780, Diesels 65550
    2017: Petrols 25075, Diesles 55609

    Sure - the market share of petrols and hybrids combined went up - from 28% in 2015, 29% in 2016 to 32% in 2017. Shocking...
    grogi wrote: »
    2010 - petrols were 32% market
    2013 - petrols were 27% of market

    Again... In 2017 after all dieselgate, experience with diesel repair bills etc - we are back to 2010 levels. And 2010 is already with new VRT/MotorTax rates...

    Don't get me to dig up 2007 figures ;)

    So you don't think the numbers sold are more now than previously?
    Compare the actual number of petrol cars sold in 2013 to the number sold in 2016.

    27% to 32 % is a significant shift, it's almost 20% an increase in petrols. For every 5 there's an extra 1 now.


  • #34
    Gravelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Would love to get a statistic showing the percentage of car mechanics and car salespeople who drive diesel vs petrol cars!


  • #35
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭grogi


    Augeo wrote: »
    So you don't think the numbers sold are more now than previously?
    Compare the actual number of petrol cars sold in 2013 to the number sold in 2016.

    Don't forget to compare the numbers of diesels sold...
    27% to 32 % is a significant shift, it's almost 20% an increase in petrols. For every 5 there's an extra 1 now.

    If the trend continues at that significant speed, we'll be at parity in 20 years. Yeey...

    Don't get me wrong, I am glad the petrol market share is increasing. But to say that there are significantly more petrols sold because the mentality of people changes is overreaching. More petrol cars were sold mainly because people were buying more cars in general - not because they wisely choose to avoid diesels.


  • #36
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Basic diesel servicing costs are higher than a petrol, that is 100% fact.

    I keep reading this on here yet having owned and driven both petrol and diesel I have never experienced it..

    Please explain why a diesel costs more to service..

    Be specific..


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  • #37
    charcosull
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 119 ✭✭charcosull


    From my experience, here is the maintenance list of my 2 previous cars. Had both for 2 years and both covered 100,000km while I had them and had around 90,000km on them when I got them.

    Mazda 6 - 1.8 Petrol. Regular servicing and needed a replacement rear brake caliper at one point.

    Volvo C30 - 1.6 Diesel. Regular servicing, DMF and clutch, Reconditioned Turbo, Injector Seals, Eolys Fluid for the DPF, ABS Module (Not a diesel specific repair)

    Some might say that the engine is on the more fragile end of diesel engines. But that engine is in an awful lot of cars. Mini's, Fords, Peugeot.

    I went for a 2.0 petrol V40 this time.


  • #38
    SBPhoto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭SBPhoto


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Basic diesel servicing costs are higher than a petrol, that is 100% fact.
    I must say i have not experienced this in both my ownership of Petrol and Diesel.
    Had petrol cars up until 2010 and services were on par with what my Diesel service cost now. most of my Diesels had over 100.000km on them when i changed and i never had a problem with any of them outside of normal servicing.
    A lot of the problems with Diesels is that some owners don't know how to drive them properly. EG Short runs and kept at low revs. My son has a 2008 A6 with 240,000km and had has no major issues. Petrol is not exactly a clean fuel either.


  • #39
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,212 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    SBPhoto wrote: »
    I must say i have not experienced this in both my ownership of Petrol and Diesel.
    Had petrol cars up until 2010 and services were on par with what my Diesel service cost now. most of my Diesels had over 100.000km on them when i changed and i never had a problem with any of them outside of normal servicing.
    A lot of the problems with Diesels is that some owners don't know how to drive them properly. EG Short runs and kept at low revs. My son has a 2008 A6 with 240,000km and had has no major issues. Petrol is not exactly a clean fuel either.

    Did you buy them with zero on them ?


  • #40
    SBPhoto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 544 ✭✭✭SBPhoto


    No I only bought one new, my first diesel in 2010. all the others were 1 year old with very low mileage.
    Also Diesel only cost me 102cent a Litre versus Petrol at 134cents. a big saving on fuel when your doing over 30,000km a year.


  • #41
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    Swanner wrote: »
    That's because all they're selling is diesel engines..

    But if you have actual data to say otherwise i'm open to correction..

    You see that's not correct. Everyone of them is driving a diesel car where a petrol equivalent is/was available and probably cheaper to buy. They're Golf's, Auris, Avensis, Citroen Cactus, Focus, Polo, i30 and Qaashqi (or however its spelt) They all chose the diesel version even though they all live within 5/10min of their workplace.


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  • #42
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »
    Everyone of them is driving a diesel car where a petrol equivalent is/was available and probably cheaper to buy. They're Golf's, Auris, Avensis, Citroen Cactus, Focus, Polo, i30 and Qaashqi (or however its spelt) They all chose the diesel version even though they all live within 5/10min of their workplace.

    But I'm not disputing any of that..

    I'm just challenging the group think here that diesels are inherently unreliable and costly to run.

    Because they are neither..

    I have no skin in the game by the way. I'd switch to an EV in the morning if it made economical sense for my situation..


  • #43
    Elemonator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,271 ✭✭✭Elemonator


    Until they design a gasoline engine that requires the same maintenance and same fuel economy as a diesel, I'm going to keep purchasing diesel.

    May never happen due to the properties of each fuel, diesel has better oiling properties, which makes the engines last a tad longer I find.


  • #44
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,677 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Swanner wrote: »
    I keep reading this on here yet having owned and driven both petrol and diesel I have never experienced it..

    Please explain why a diesel costs more to service..

    Be specific..

    Fuel filter needs to be changed regularly, glow plugs more expensive and complex to change than spark plugs, car battery needs to be of a higher load than a similar petrol model requires. I'd guess those alone will add 30% or more to the cost to service than a petrol model.


  • #45
    demanufactured
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭demanufactured


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Fuel filter needs to be changed regularly, glow plugs more expensive and complex to change than spark plugs, car battery needs to be of a higher load than a similar petrol model requires. I'd guess those alone will add 30% or more to the cost to service than a petrol model.

    But they don't all need to be changed at every service.


  • #46
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,677 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    demanufactured wrote: »
    But they don't all need to be changed at every service.

    I know I am talking about over 5 years or so, every 2nd service, comparing against same timeline with a petrol model. If your talking about service 1 both will be basically oil changes and that's it.


  • #47
    Gravelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    The only accurate comparison would really be to compare running, maintenance, and repair costs over various set times / mileages, say 2 years/30k km, 2 years 50k km etc.

    In my experience covering a mix of company cars and privately owned cars of various makes over the past 20 years, doing above average mileage, I would say that up to around 10 years ago, diesel had the edge in terms of reliability, but that has now swung back to petrol. My current car is a petrol, and will be changing for another petrol in the next few weeks, having had 3 diesels before that. Modern diesels (at least those under 2.5 litres) are trying too hard to be all things to all owners, and have lost their previously legendary reliability in the process, in my opinion.


  • #48
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Fuel filter needs to be changed regularly, glow plugs more expensive and complex to change than spark plugs, car battery needs to be of a higher load than a similar petrol model requires. I'd guess those alone will add 30% or more to the cost to service than a petrol model.

    You are joking yeah


  • #49
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    The running costs after fuel on diesels is far more than petrol and reliablility because of dpf failure will eventually put people off, not much point in saving €200 or so in motor tax if the other costs are multiples of that per year.
    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    I know I am talking about over 5 years or so, every 2nd service, comparing against same timeline with a petrol model. If your talking about service 1 both will be basically oil changes and that's it.

    So servicing costs are actually the same then..

    For your list you're probably talking about somewhere in the region of €100 extra over 5 years of ownership. So that's about €20 per year or .05c per day.
    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    Basic diesel servicing costs are higher than a petrol, that is 100% fact.

    You have yet to prove this fact..


  • #50
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Elemonator wrote: »
    Until they design a gasoline engine that requires the same maintenance and same fuel economy as a diesel, I'm going to keep purchasing diesel.

    May never happen due to the properties of each fuel, diesel has better oiling properties, which makes the engines last a tad longer I find.

    Doesn't matter much if you haven't got a daysul pump in it


    http://jalopnik.com/5885287/how-i-put-750000-miles-on-my-honda-civic-in-just-five-years


  • #51
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,677 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    GDY151


    Swanner wrote: »
    So servicing costs are actually the same then..

    For your list you're probably talking about somewhere in the region of ?100 extra over 5 years of ownership. So that's about ?20 per year or .05c per day.



    You have yet to prove this fact..

    I take it maths isn't your strongpoint? :rolleyes:


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