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Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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Comments

  • #2702
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Fair point regarding the walk at either end.

    But, again playing devil's advocate, would people from neighbourhoods along the Maynooth line going to work west of Capel Street, or to the Clanbrassil St or Thomas St areas be using the train in the first place?

    I doubt it to be honest, as the buses along the Lucan and Blanchardstown QBCs bring them much closer, and will still do even with the LUAS extension.

    As I said - the real winners are anyone working in the Phibsboro, going to DIT Grangegorman and those working in the Parnell Street areas.

    They may begin to use the luas + train if its quicker. It also may get use from people using the service from afield like Dunboyne, M3 Parkway, Kilcock, Enfield and Longford etc.


  • #2703
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Anyone working in the city centre up to Harcourt Street would presumably get the train to one of the three city centre stations and walk.

    By transferring to LUAS they're incurring additional costs up to EUR8 per week if using LEAP pay-as-you-go (capping doesn't even come into play!).

    I have to say I still think the main market for transfers will be people going to the Phibsboro, Grangegorman and north city centre areas.

    Tbh it's a good point regarding people working in places like Harcourt Street. I work there and if I had the choice of 12-14 extra mins on the train standing plus another 15 minute walk, or 21 minutes on the LUAS sitting, plus just a 4 minute walk, I'd pick the latter. Comfort is a big factor when the time is pretty much the same. You'd pay the extra 50c or 1e to not have to stand and walk.


  • #2704
    Chivito550
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,697 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    lxflyer wrote: »
    There is virtually nowhere that would require going to the city centre and back out on the LUAS again.

    There are already buses linking the DART line area with those areas you mention above.

    Buses are just not reliable. Only this very minute I've been left screwed by a 16 that didn't show. Get the next one in 20 mins and I'm late for a dinner, so a €10-15 taxi is the net result. Throw in morning rush hour and insufficient space on many buses and drivers driving past stops. A LUAS from Bray would be well utilised, albeit far from a priority relative to more important projects.


  • #2705
    roadmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I quickly looked at previous posts and I could not see this posted if it has sorry for the repeat question but I was wondering is there any plans in the future to put a spur on this line between the Liffey and the green to run to the new poolbeg development ?


  • #2706
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Buses are just not reliable. Only this very minute I've been left screwed by a 16 that didn't show. Get the next one in 20 mins and I'm late for a dinner, so a ?10-15 taxi is the net result. Throw in morning rush hour and insufficient space on many buses and drivers driving past stops. A LUAS from Bray would be well utilised, albeit far from a priority relative to more important projects.

    I'm not saying don't build the LUAS to Bray - anything but.

    What I am saying is that I very much doubt there are large numbers of people taking the DART into town from Bray or Dun Laoghaire and then taking a LUAS back south to Dundrum, Sandyford or Cherrywood as another poster suggested.

    There are numerous buses along the DART line that would connect those areas with the DART line and that no one in their right mind would take such a convoluted route when far easier and more direct options exist.

    I'm just reigning in some of the exaggerations that people come up with.


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  • #2707
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    roadmaster wrote: »
    I quickly looked at previous posts and I could not see this posted if it has sorry for the repeat question but I was wondering is there any plans in the future to put a spur on this line between the Liffey and the green to run to the new poolbeg development ?

    Nothing at present.

    Probably more likely to be a red line spur if it were to ever happen.


  • #2708
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Tbh it's a good point regarding people working in places like Harcourt Street. I work there and if I had the choice of 12-14 extra mins on the train standing plus another 15 minute walk, or 21 minutes on the LUAS sitting, plus just a 4 minute walk, I'd pick the latter. Comfort is a big factor when the time is pretty much the same. You'd pay the extra 50c or 1e to not have to stand and walk.

    Horses for courses - many people will choose the walk rather than paying twice. Plenty of people are price sensitive.

    The times would be comparable - you're looking at 35-45 mins using the LUAS, including waiting time while the train and walk would be around 35 mins.


  • #2709
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Nothing at present.

    Probably more likely to be a red line spur if it were to ever happen.

    Isn't that what they're planning for without it being part of any official plans as of yet? Like don't they plan to build a new bridge at the mouth of the Liffey that will facilitate just such an extension by including space for Luas?


  • #2710
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    AngryLips wrote: »
    Isn't that what they're planning for without it being part of any official plans as of yet? Like don't they plan to build a new bridge at the mouth of the Liffey that will facilitate just such an extension by including space for Luas?

    There are plans for a public transport bridge across the mouth of the Dodder.


  • #2711
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    For integrated public transport to work in this city they really need to tackle the cost of transferring between modes. In Toronto you pick up a transfer ticket for using a given mode of transport and that lets you to transfer to another mode for free. IE- You can pay 3.25 for your streetcar ticket into a subway station and then take the subway at no additional cost.


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  • #2712
    roadmaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,179 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Nothing at present.

    Probably more likely to be a red line spur if it were to ever happen.

    If they do a red line spur how would they do it ,would it be a bridge that lifts or would there be possibilities to do a raised bridge that would be high enoght for ships to go under


  • #2713
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    roadmaster wrote: »
    If they do a red line spur how would they do it ,would it be a bridge that lifts or would there be possibilities to do a raised bridge that would be high enoght for ships to go under

    Perhaps they could replace the bus lane with tracks on The Samuel Backett


  • #2714
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    roadmaster wrote: »
    If they do a red line spur how would they do it ,would it be a bridge that lifts or would there be possibilities to do a raised bridge that would be high enoght for ships to go under

    Perhaps they could replace the bus lane with tracks on The Samuel Backett

    If it was located near the point then mayble but not practical. They will just build a bridge than can open like existing ones already there.


  • #2715
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,818 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    roadmaster wrote: »
    If they do a red line spur how would they do it ,would it be a bridge that lifts or would there be possibilities to do a raised bridge that would be high enoght for ships to go under

    Perhaps they could replace the bus lane with tracks on The Samuel Backett

    If it was located near the point then mayble but not practical. They will just build a bridge than can open like existing ones already there.


  • #2716
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: I have moved some posts of a more general Luas nature to a new thread.

    Future Luas expansion in GDA strategy 2016-2035

    Here.


  • #2717
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Fit-out of stations, tracks and wiring around phibsboro and Cabra is racing along, I suspect we may see test running soon


  • #2718
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭markpb


    trellheim wrote: »
    Fit-out of stations, tracks and wiring around phibsboro and Cabra is racing along, I suspect we may see test running soon

    Mrs Markpb overheard two drivers talking at the weekend and one of them claimed to have been a section of the route already. Seems very unlikely to me so I assume she misheard. Test running (at snails pace) is scheduled for mid June.


  • #2719
    jamo2oo9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    markpb wrote: »
    Mrs Markpb overheard two drivers talking at the weekend and one of them claimed to have been a section of the route already. Seems very unlikely to me so I assume she misheard. Test running (at snails pace) is scheduled for mid June.

    That's like 3 weeks away though..


  • #2720
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,146 ✭✭✭trellheim


    If you go and look at Faussaugh Road bridge you will see it is nearly ready to go ...


  • #2721
    Pixel Eater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭Pixel Eater


    Six months seems an inordinate amount of time for testing the new lines. Were the original lines that long?


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  • #2722
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Pixel Eater wrote: »
    Six months seems an inordinate amount of time for testing the new lines. Were the original lines that long?

    They took a lot less time on the times they gave for the works on the crossover of the red and green lines at OCB and RHB last year. Maybe they are just padding it to allow unforeseen problems.


  • #2723
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    They took a lot less time on the times they gave for the works on the crossover of the red and green lines at OCB and RHB last year. Maybe they are just padding it to allow unforeseen problems.

    Full testing won't start for a few months yet - the gauge test will be first in June sometime and then they will have to get everything else finished.


  • #2724
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    On a note that has bugged me the whole time. Was a route solely down Marlborough St ever considered rather than splitting it up OCS for northbound trams?

    Also can anyone state why it could not have used Marlborough St solely, bar say the pinch-point at the junction with Parnell. Though that might have been solved with a CPO on the Welcome Inn.

    Anyway, just something I have wondered.


  • #2725
    AngryLips
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    I don't need think the turn into Parnell Street is a pinch point, if you walk over that way you'd see there's plenty of space at that turn. I imagine the problem would be that running two Luas lines down such a narrow street would compromise space for pedestrians while also inducing greater footfall. And the question would have to be asked if the space on that street is capable of handling such heavy traffic.


  • #2726
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I don't need think the turn into Parnell Street is a pinch point, if you walk over that way you'd see there's plenty of space at that turn. I imagine the problem would be that running two Luas lines down such a narrow street would compromise space for pedestrians while also inducing greater footfall. And the question would have to be asked if the space on that street is capable of handling such heavy traffic.
    Re above. That was my only observation. It's easily navigable I would say but you never know sometimes with these decisions.

    ---

    Re narrowness of the Street itself? Do you think so really? If it was solely tram and pedestrian it would seem to be to be plenty wide and also opening up an under-utilised area thus increasing security etc.

    * measures Street *


  • #2727
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Re above. That was my only observation. It's easily navigable I would say but you never know sometimes with these decisions.

    ---

    Re narrowness of the Street itself? Do you think so really? If it was solely tram and pedestrian it would seem to be to be plenty wide and also opening up an under-utilised area thus increasing security etc.

    * measures Street *

    DES has a staff car park. And other businesses would require access to be maintained


  • #2728
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I don't need think the turn into Parnell Street is a pinch point, if you walk over that way you'd see there's plenty of space at that turn. I imagine the problem would be that running two Luas lines down such a narrow street would compromise space for pedestrians while also inducing greater footfall. And the question would have to be asked if the space on that street is capable of handling such heavy traffic.

    If you're talking about the turn from Parnell Square East into Parnell Street (towards the Parnell Luas stop), the small area of road inside the track (rendered useless by the necessary buildout for the platform) should be pedestrianised to accommodate the increased footfall towards the said stop - a decent curve for turning traffic could be maintained - perhaps 9m radius - that said, the footpath is the most important thing to consider at this stage.


  • #2729
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    DES has a staff car park. And other businesses would require access to be maintained

    Access can be maintained by various means either re-routing the traffic flow, or just accepting tram priority to other road traffic as happens on James' St, Steeven's Lane and Abbey St Upper.

    Again, my question was, does anyone know the reason it wasn't or whether it was ever considered to use Marlborough St solely for Luas?

    EDIT: I did find this:

    http://www.luascrosscity.ie/about/public-documents/route-selection/
    RPA wrote:
    City Centre (Line BX) Section of Line BXD

    In January 2005, following the opening of the Luas Red Line and Luas Green Line to passenger services in 2004, RPA undertook an attitudinal survey of Luas passengers and sought opinions on a cross city Luas line and views on possible station locations. The overwhelming response was one of strong support for a cross city Luas line which would link the Luas Green and Luas Red Lines.

    RPA then set about the task of identifying possible route options for Luas City Centre (Line BX) with key considerations in mind which included length of route, journey time, trip attractors and generators, likely passenger demand, the operation of the line and environmental issues.

    In November 2005 RPA launched a public consultation process focusing on Line BX. The process was promoted and facilitated by a mix of print and radio advertising, newsletter distribution and website communications along with Public Open Days and Displays and meetings with individual interested parties and groups. Members of the public were invited to comment on five possible route options from St. Stephen’s Green to either O’Connell Street or Marlborough Street which and been identified prior to the commencement of the consultation process and were also prompted to come forward with any alternatives or variants which they felt should be considered. Open Days were held in December 2005 and in February 2006.

    During the course of the extensive pubic consultation campaign a sixth route option was identified. Following further assessment of the possible alignments, public consultation activities focused on two of these six options and an additional Open-Day centring on these two route options was held at the end of January 2007.

    Gotta find me these 6 route options so.


  • #2730
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Access can be maintained by various means either re-routing the traffic flow, or just accepting tram priority to other road traffic as happens on James' St, Steeven's Lane and Abbey St Upper.

    Those streets are wide enough to allow for traffic to stop with out blocking the Luas. There is just about enough room to run 2 lines down Malborough St.


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  • #2731
    seekers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 216 ✭✭seekers


    Wasn't the original idea to have luas lines on the inside of both lanes on o'connell street?


  • #2732
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Those streets are wide enough to allow for traffic to stop with out blocking the Luas. There is just about enough room to run 2 lines down Malborough St.

    That as it may be but in these instances, all things being equal, Public Transport should get priority.

    I found the EIS. Killer on that original website to wade through. Currently reading the "alternative routes"

    Option D (Routing down Marlborough) would have required partial demolition of Abbey. Though, that would easily have been moved as has been planned for years. I fact, Luas would probably have made it happen finally!

    Route Alternatives start on page 51: http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/EIS/BXD_EIS_Book_1/Luas%20Broombridge_EIS_Book_1_Part_1_(Chapters_1-7).pdf


  • #2733
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,489 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Those streets are wide enough to allow for traffic to stop with out blocking the Luas. There is just about enough room to run 2 lines down Malborough St.

    no different from Mayor St/Georges Dock then.


  • #2734
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    loyatemu wrote: »
    no different from Mayor St/Georges Dock then.

    Mayor St has a public road on it

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3492454,-6.2425705,3a,75y,149.57h,62.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srJhNAFvOtLch9K5xZF5Tog!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    And even then it's tight.

    George's dock is essentially one long clearway with an spillway for traffic either end and both have loading bays.

    It was a considered route so there is a way to make it work but l think the current routing is best


  • #2735
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Mayor St has a public road on it

    https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3492454,-6.2425705,3a,75y,149.57h,62.69t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1srJhNAFvOtLch9K5xZF5Tog!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    And even then it's tight.

    George's dock is essentially one long clearway with an spillway for traffic either end and both have loading bays.

    It was a considered route so there is a way to make it work but l think the current routing is best

    I just fail to see the reasoning of ripping up OCS as has been done and the disruption coupled with other issues that will arrive re demonstrations, rallies, parades in future.

    A subsequent turnabout loop on Parnell Sq S, W, N and E could have been managed also. (taking other things into consideration such as hospital access etc.)

    But anyway, good to see it was considered even though I disagree with the eventual option chosen.


  • #2736
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Major progress around St Stephen's Green. I'd say not much more than a month left


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  • #2737
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Gauge test is supposed to be on the weekend of 17th/18th June.


  • #2738
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Gauge test is supposed to be on the weekend of 17th/18th June.

    Really ? Still what look to be track works on going at Stephen's Green and the Broadstone.


  • #2739
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Really ? Still what look to be track works on going at Stephen's Green and the Broadstone.

    Most of the work at SSG is on the turnback siding - that can be tested later if needs be.


  • #2740
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,088 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Also platforms have to be lengthened at some stations


  • #2741
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    BonnieSituation wrote: »
    Also platforms have to be lengthened at some stations

    Isn't the work completed?


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  • #2742
    MJohnston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,705 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I think the platform extensions are done, but it wouldn't preclude gauge testing anyway, as they are non-disruptive upgrades.


  • #2743
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,615 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    MJohnston wrote: »
    I think the platform extensions are done, but it wouldn't preclude gauge testing anyway, as they are non-disruptive upgrades.

    Working on Windy Arbour currently.


  • #2744
    jamo2oo9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    Are they lengthening the platforms on both lines or just the green line?


  • #2745
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    Are they lengthening the platforms on both lines or just the green line?

    Just the green line as its the only line getting extended and getting the new 54m trams


  • #2746
    Peregrine
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    Are they lengthening the platforms on both lines or just the green line?

    Just the Green Line.

    All Red Line trams are 40m and I'm fairly sure the platforms are no longer than 40m. Maybe 43m.


  • #2747
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    For a guage test do they run a tram down or some piece of kit to check the gauge?


  • #2748
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,416 ✭✭✭markpb


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    For a guage test do they run a tram down or some piece of kit to check the gauge?
    "In mid-June, there will be a gauge run", she said. "We will run a tram from St Stephen's Green at walking pace, with people from Transdev (the operator), the contractors, gardaí and Dublin City Council running diagnostics. It will take between 12 and 14 hours.

    "We have to check every single inch of the route from the perspective of the driver, checking signalling, and how the tram physically moves through the city. Another tram may also run in the opposite direction."

    Independent

    Here and here show how it was done in LA recenty.


  • #2749
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Deedsie wrote: »
    I walked Stephens Green down to Dawson today and there looks to be very little left to be done.

    As did I. As I said they are still working on the tracks there


  • #2750
    lateconnection
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 79 ✭✭lateconnection


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Isn't the work completed?

    As of this evening, this is the status of the platform extension works. Some are completed, some ongoing, and some have not started yet:

    St Stephen's Green: Platform extensions complete, new sections of both platforms open to public and being used by trams.

    Harcourt stop: Platform extensions complete, new sections of both platforms open to public and being used by trams.

    Charlemont stop: Platform extensions complete, new sections of both platforms not yet open to public and not being used by trams yet.

    Ranelagh stop: Platform extensions nearing completion, new sections not open to public yet and not being used by trams.

    Beechwood stop: Platform extension work ongoing, mainly clearing shrubs at the moment.

    Cowper stop: Platform extensions complete, new sections of platforms not yet open to public and not yet being used by trams.

    Milltown stop: Platform extensions complete, new sections of platforms open to public and being used by trams.

    Windy Arbour stop: Platform extension works ongoing, concrete poured, not fully completed.

    Dundrum stop: Works have not started yet.

    Balally stop: Works have not started yet.

    Kilmacud stop: Works have not started yet.

    Stillorgan stop: Platform extensions complete, new sections of platforms open to public and being used by trams.


  • #2751
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,733 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    That Indo article says Broombridge to SSG will take 21 minutes. Pretty sure the operators had said 26 minutes a good while back.

    Was thinking too that the section from Trinity to Dawson St. is highly likely to be clogged with taxis at night time, as is much of that area already . I would imagine taxis will be banned from this section after slowing down tram journeys over the busy Xmas period.


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