Should sterilisation be mandatory for people with hereditary conditions?

Gerrup Outta Dat! · 19-10-2017 07:48PM #1

Please listen to me before pouncing.

A lot of parents have children (whilst unknowingly) having a genetic condition, this is understandable and a lot of hereditary medical conditions can often happen spontaneously.

I think it is very selfish when a person (who KNOWS) they have a certain condition and that the condition will (or might) pass onto the child. The child has absolutely no say in whether or not they are born with that condition.

I, myself have a very rare genetic condition. I'd like everyone to know what it is.
It is called Neurofibromatosis. There are two main types. Type 1 and Type 2 and a very rare third one, Schwannomatosis. The main symptoms are benign tumours on nerve endings, possible scoliosis, high blood pressure, poor attention span / concentration, early or late puberty, smaller than usual or higher than usual height (among others).

I'm not too badly affected myself and for that I am thankful. I only have a very, very minor curvature of the spine that's only detectable on MRI, some small (only mm in size) tumours on my brain, a 5x7 cm one on my neck and a huge one about the size of two mandarin oranges on my left arm. All masses are deep under the skin and not immediately noticeable.

My father is only 150 cm tall, has more sever scoliosis but he doesn't have the same growths that I have (although he does have some).

There are much more serious forms of it, feel free to google images. These can be disfiguring to the face and body. There is no way to know how one's child will turn out. A mild case in my part might result in a severe case for my children, and a severe case in my children might result in a child from them without the condition at all.

For that reason, I'd never knowingly have children. I'd happily get the snip, and if, in the future, I'd have sperm taken from my surgically and undergo IVF.

What are people's thoughts on mandatory sterilisation for people with inherited disorders?

Dravokivich · 19-10-2017 07:51PM

No. I know someone who had the potential to pass something on, but has 6 children unaffected by it. Unfortunately there was another one that has a very low rate, that tends to only get tested after the fact. So they were unaware of the risk of that.

The_Pretender · 19-10-2017 07:59PM

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

For that reason, I'd never knowingly have children. I'd happily get the snip, and if, in the future, I'd have sperm taken from my surgically and undergo IVF.

If it’s possible to have your own biological children by having the sperm tested and have selected sperm that don’t carry the gene used, then it would be incredibly selfish to do otherwise. Any sort of moral conflict only comes into it when you would be unable to have children at all, and even then it would depend on the condition and it’s impact on life.

messrs · 19-10-2017 08:05PM

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Please listen to me before pouncing.

A lot of parents have children (whilst unknowingly) having a genetic condition, this is understandable and a lot of hereditary medical conditions can often happen spontaneously.

I think it is very selfish when a person (who KNOWS) they have a certain condition and that the condition will (or might) pass onto the child. The child has absolutely no say in whether or not they are born with that condition.

I, myself have a very rare genetic condition. I'd like everyone to know what it is.
It is called Neurofibromatosis. There are two main types. Type 1 and Type 2 and a very rare third one, Schwannomatosis. The main symptoms are benign tumours on nerve endings, possible scoliosis, high blood pressure, poor attention span / concentration, early or late puberty, smaller than usual or higher than usual height (among others).

I'm not too badly affected myself and for that I am thankful. I only have a very, very minor curvature of the spine that's only detectable on MRI, some small (only mm in size) tumours on my brain, a 5x7 cm one on my neck and a huge one about the size of two mandarin oranges on my left arm. All masses are deep under the skin and not immediately noticeable.

My father is only 150 cm tall, has more sever scoliosis but he doesn't have the same growths that I have (although he does have some).

There are much more serious forms of it, feel free to google images. These can be disfiguring to the face and body. There is no way to know how one's child will turn out. A mild case in my part might result in a severe case for my children, and a severe case in my children might result in a child from them without the condition at all.

For that reason, I'd never knowingly have children. I'd happily get the snip, and if, in the future, I'd have sperm taken from my surgically and undergo IVF.

What are people's thoughts on mandatory sterilisation for people with inherited disorders?

Hi Gerrup Outta Dat!

I too was diagnosed with Neurofibromatosis a few years ago, like you said it is a hereditary condition, after i was confirmed to have it, i spoke to may parents about it and neither of them are aware of having it. So I dont know if it came from my grandparents or further back. I dont have children but i was told by my consultant that i would need to have genetic counselling before considering having a child - i was told there is a chance my child (if i were to have one) may not get it or they could get it the same as me or even a more severe version of it. I dont know if i could knowingly do that to a child to be honest, i would need to seriously consider it. I already had surgery to remove one of my tumors, it was benign but i had to get it removed due to the size of it and the possibility of it getting bigger and starting to squash my organs. Im lucky in so much as all my tumors that i have ( i have them in my neck, stomach & groin) are all internal and not visible unless i pointed them out to you but i know there are cases where people have them and the are external tumors - i would find it very difficult to have a child knowing i could do that to them

Gerrup Outta Dat! · 19-10-2017 08:05PM

No - people should be free to have children regardless

The_Pretender wrote: »

If it’s possible to have your own biological children by having the sperm tested and have selected sperm that don’t carry the gene used, then it would be incredibly selfish to do otherwise. Any sort of moral conflict only comes into it when you would be unable to have children at all, and even then it would depend on the condition and it’s impact on life.

But you have to account for accidents that may happen, split Johnny, pill not working.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 19-10-2017 08:07PM

That's a very dangerous road to go down.

judeboy101 · 19-10-2017 08:07PM

Is poverty is a hereditary condition?

Sofiztikated · 19-10-2017 08:09PM

I've a condition that affects 1 in 40,000 births. Noone knows why it happens, it just does.

There's a 1 in 70 chance any children I father will have it.

Stick your mandatory sterilisation up your arse.

Junkyard Tom · 19-10-2017 08:12PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

That's a very dangerous road to go down.

Especially with the fallen trees and all that.

SEPT 23 1989 · 19-10-2017 08:14PM

No - but people with medical conditions are selfish to have children if they could pass it on

Adversity breeds creativity and innovation you won't get get much of that with your blond haired supermen OP

Buford T. Justice XIX · 19-10-2017 08:22PM

No - but people with medical conditions are selfish to have children if they could pass it on

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Please listen to me before pouncing.

A lot of parents have children (whilst unknowingly) having a genetic condition, this is understandable and a lot of hereditary medical conditions can often happen spontaneously.

I think it is very selfish when a person (who KNOWS) they have a certain condition and that the condition will (or might) pass onto the child. The child has absolutely no say in whether or not they are born with that condition.

I, myself have a very rare genetic condition. I'd like everyone to know what it is.
It is called Neurofibromatosis. There are two main types. Type 1 and Type 2 and a very rare third one, Schwannomatosis. The main symptoms are benign tumours on nerve endings, possible scoliosis, high blood pressure, poor attention span / concentration, early or late puberty, smaller than usual or higher than usual height (among others).

I'm not too badly affected myself and for that I am thankful. I only have a very, very minor curvature of the spine that's only detectable on MRI, some small (only mm in size) tumours on my brain, a 5x7 cm one on my neck and a huge one about the size of two mandarin oranges on my left arm. All masses are deep under the skin and not immediately noticeable.

My father is only 150 cm tall, has more sever scoliosis but he doesn't have the same growths that I have (although he does have some).

There are much more serious forms of it, feel free to google images. These can be disfiguring to the face and body. There is no way to know how one's child will turn out. A mild case in my part might result in a severe case for my children, and a severe case in my children might result in a child from them without the condition at all.

For that reason, I'd never knowingly have children. I'd happily get the snip, and if, in the future, I'd have sperm taken from my surgically and undergo IVF.

What are people's thoughts on mandatory sterilisation for people with inherited disorders?

Who gets to decide which inherited disorders need sterilisation?

I'm diabetic, does that require sterilisation?

I have kids, the fact that their parents both come from families with risk factors that can lead to diabetes, would that mean that they would be sterilised?

What happens if one shows an ability that is judged hugely beneficial to others? How would it be judged how much his/her ability needs to be preserved?

The fact that some disorders, for example Sickle Cell Anemia, can confer a benefit on carriers, are they also to be sterilised despite the benefits?

You are straying into dangerous territory, OP, this is Eugenics!

branie2 · 19-10-2017 08:28PM

No

wakka12 · 19-10-2017 08:37PM

No, once you start that then you step into eugenics territory.Where do you draw a line?Should we sterilise short men then? Men who are like 5ft tall have **** lives. Should we sterilise stupid people? Theyll have a hard life too
Leave it up to people to procreate if they wish. most people with horrible hereditary conditions usually wont have children for this reason.

Karangue · 19-10-2017 09:11PM

Not quoting the long op should be made mandatory.

Sue Pa Key Pa · 19-10-2017 09:26PM

It would deal with the ginger epidemic we have in Ireland

Arghus · 19-10-2017 09:31PM

No, OP, no.

bear1 · 19-10-2017 09:33PM

****ing nonsense thread.
My brother was diagnosed with PKU when he was born.
Amazingly this skipped me.
No one on either side of our family ever had it so it was just my mother and father that had the correct DNA criteria to initiate this defect.
He is 100% normal and you'd never suspect he has anything not in line with most people.
His diet is completely different and he will be on daily god awful medicine for the rest of his life and has to eat special food which lacks a certain protein just so his body digests it.
He can't have fish, meat, milk, eggs, bread etc.
He can pass this down if he meets a woman that is a carrier.
So to repeat another poster.. stick this idea up your hole.

endacl · 19-10-2017 10:00PM

No more threads for a while, OP.

You've crossed the line to downright stupid.

Crea · 19-10-2017 10:10PM

What hereditary conditions are we talking about?
My father has a clotting disorder - out of 7 children my sister and I have it. My sister has a more severe case, I'm considered a carrier.
Thyroid problems, mental illness, autism, breast cancer all have a hereditary element to it. Who do we sterilise?

branie2 · 19-10-2017 10:12PM

It would be like the time the Nazis carried such experiments on what they called inferior races

jcd5971 · 19-10-2017 10:13PM

Eugenics is a great idea on paper, you remove all inherited diseases, weakness undesirable traits, all for the betterment of humanity as a whole, usher in a new era where everyone is healthy and as a population focus on other avenues other than health and sickness.

On paper

In reality, how long before someone in power decided that, Latinos, blacks, or whites was undesirable, what about the potential for low IQ.

What if the person in power decides the Irish are lazy alcoholics they go.
Factually the person would be wrong but they have the power.

No OP I see the argument but history clearly shows us that where eugenics go travesties follow.

Karangue · 19-10-2017 10:15PM

endacl wrote: »

No more threads for a while, OP.

You've crossed the line to downright stupid.

We need to limit his mileage.

LadyMacBeth_ · 19-10-2017 10:19PM

No, I don't think that people who have hereditary conditions should be automatically sterilized. I have a genetic condition myself, Cystic Fibrosis. My parents had a 1 in 4 chance of having a child with CF with every pregnancy. My sister is a carrier so she could pass it on to a child and I have CF. My parents didn't know this at the time though, they had no idea they were carriers. In fact one in 19 people in Ireland carry the CF gene and two carriers have a 1 in 4 chance of having a child with CF with each pregnancy, just like my parents. Now, having said that, I am not entirely happy about parents who have one child with CF and decide to take a risk with another pregnancy or several pregnancies. I heard of four children from the same family all going to the CF clinic together and I think it is utterly selfish to continue having children who will have a debilitating illness when you are aware of it.

There are ways to prevent this outcome though, like you said OP, PGD along with IVF screens the embryos before implantation for genetic diseases so you can only implant healthy ones. I don't want to have children for a variety of reasons but if my partner also carried a CF gene we'd have a very high chance of having a child with CF. While I am happy to have been born and to be alive, my life is far from easy or normal and I don't think I could willingly inflict this illness on a child.

So I don't believe in taking away people's rights but I think these decisions should involve a lot of thought, mostly for the welfare of the child.

Hotblack Desiato · 19-10-2017 11:00PM

Anyone remember the Late Late Show in the 80s, every second week there'd be some poor unfortunates with the genetic condition in their eldest and the other three children they had just to be sure it wasn't a fluke :rolleyes: Not marrying cousins does help, shallow gene pool in Ireland.

mahamageehad · 19-10-2017 11:42PM

No - but people with medical conditions are selfish to have children if they could pass it on

I'm genuinely surprised that 30% of voters here have said yes!

No, of course not. They may choose to not have kids for whatever reason and they're perfectly free to get themselves sterilised if they want to be sure to be sure, but mandatory sterilisation is a crazy road to go down! As others have said, who decides what's "acceptable"?

feargale · 20-10-2017 01:00AM

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

A lot of parents have children (whilst unknowingly) having a genetic condition, this is understandable and a lot of hereditary medical conditions can often happen spontaneously.

I, myself have a very rare genetic condition. I'd like everyone to know what it is.

My father is only 150 cm tall, has more sever scoliosis but he doesn't have the same growths that I have (although he does have some).

For that reason, I'd never knowingly have children. I'd happily get the snip, and if, in the future, I'd have sperm taken from my surgically and undergo IVF.

What are people's thoughts on mandatory sterilisation for people with inherited disorders?

What's your view of mandatory sterilisation for your father?

the_syco · 20-10-2017 01:32AM

No - but people with medical conditions are selfish to have children if they could pass it on

Shall we sterilize people who have been on the dole for more than ten years? :pac:
Maybe also the travellers? :pac:
How about a lottery for Northsiders? The winner gets €5,000 and gets sterilized :pac:
How about we sterilize refugees until they get citizenship? :pac:

Victor · 20-10-2017 01:49AM

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

What are people's thoughts on mandatory sterilisation for people with inherited disorders?

Realise that likely everyone on the planet has the genes for some hereditary condition.

Martina1991 · 20-10-2017 03:01PM

LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »

I am not entirely happy about parents who have one child with CF and decide to take a risk with another pregnancy or several pregnancies. I heard of four children from the same family all going to the CF clinic together and I think it is utterly selfish to continue having children who will have a debilitating illness when you are aware of it.

There are ways to prevent this outcome though, like you said OP, PGD along with IVF screens the embryos before implantation for genetic diseases so you can only implant healthy ones. I don't want to have children for a variety of reasons but if my partner also carried a CF gene we'd have a very high chance of having a child with CF. While I am happy to have been born and to be alive, my life is far from easy or normal and I don't think I could willingly inflict this illness on a child.

So I don't believe in taking away people's rights but I think these decisions should involve a lot of thought, mostly for the welfare of the child.

I think the OP has a point.
I agree with what LadyMacBeth has said. I did my undergrad project on CF and was shocked to discover how common it is in Ireland and couldn't help but question why people continue to have children knowing the struggle that child will face.

Having children knowing that they will likely have a very difficult life is selfish.
For example if you were told your child had a 50% of developing cancer would you still chance it? It isn't fair on the child.

IVF screening is a possible solution but I imagine an expensive one. It also raises ethical questions about "playing God" and "designer babies".

I think genetic counselling is critical for any new couple with known genetic conditions.

Crea · 20-10-2017 03:04PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Anyone remember the Late Late Show in the 80s, every second week there'd be some poor unfortunates with the genetic condition in their eldest and the other three children they had just to be sure it wasn't a fluke :rolleyes: Not marrying cousins does help, shallow gene pool in Ireland.

All the more reason to welcome immigrants

Ralf and Florian · 20-10-2017 03:12PM

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

It would deal with the ginger epidemic we have in Ireland

Foxy headed is the correct term.

A Little Pony · 20-10-2017 03:13PM

Don't see why not, abortion is allowed and no one bats an eyelid. So the more killing the better I suppose.

BrokenArrows · 20-10-2017 03:28PM

No - people should be free to have children regardless

With certain conditions i would say yes.
If you have a condition where there is significant decrease in life expectancy and life quality and the chances of passing it on are greater than 10% then id say you should be.

There is also the argument that even if you dont pass it on directly to your children you could be passing it to your grandchildren, great grandchildren.

While forced sterilization would be a very hard thing to enforce i believe there probably should be a free service available and advertised and advised by doctors to people who are diagnosed with certain conditions.

What those conditions are and where you draw the line would be a very difficult thing to decide.

As for someone asking if we sterialise stupid people. The answer is obviously no. The world needs stupid people to function. If everyone was a rocket scientist then you would have nobody to perform the many menial jobs that we all rely on from day to day.

seamus · 20-10-2017 03:59PM

Mandatory anything, where it's mandatory for some and not mandatory for others, is usually a bad idea. Because someone has to draw a line between the two groups, and they're human, and humans are fallible.

Really whatever you're doing has to be mandatory for everyone or for no-one.

An incentivised approach can be effective. For example, if someone has one of these heritable life-limiting conditions, they may voluntarily get sterilised and then go to the government and apply for a permanent lifelong benefit, which is index-linked with child benefit.

In effect, you get paid child benefit for the rest of your life for voluntarily not having children.

This can be dangerous too - someone might think "maybe we can extend this poor people and rug users too", and then put the hard sell on, encouraging these groups to be permanently sterilised. But at least if you're initially clear in your intent and it's not a mandatory requirement, then it's much harder to warp it into something ugly.

Lollipops23 · 20-10-2017 04:15PM

No - but people with medical conditions are selfish to have children if they could pass it on

I have MS. My dad's sister has it and his mother had it (she died of something unrelated).

MS isn't recognised as being "hereditary", but clearly there is an element of it.

Am I still planning on having children? Yes. Am I selfish? To an extent.

I can provide for kids, have a roof over my head and a terrifically supportive family. I'm already lightyears ahead of many people out there who keep churning them out.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-10-2017 06:47PM

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

It would deal with the ginger epidemic we have in Ireland

But aren't the genes for gingers the same as the ones for redheads ?

Should sterilisation be mandatory for people with hereditary conditions?

Should sterilisation be mandatory for people with hereditary medical conditions? 56 votes

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