BT Young Scientist - is there something fishy? MOD Note in OP

Bitches Be Trypsin · 14-01-2018 3:47pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

More than one similar study.

Here's another guess. He/they went for a better backstory ala x factor about his grandad, rather than more mundane, it's what his mum's been involved in for almost a decade.

Or he just doesn't like his mum and therefore didn't want to acknowledge her.

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

judeboy101 · 14-01-2018 3:48pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

His mother currently lectures me in CIT, she doesn't lecture in UCC, just to clear that up. She is an incredibly honest, successful and ethical woman, and while she may have helped him in his studies, I have no doubt at all that the boy did the majority of the work.

I had a lecturer in college, who was the kindest, gentlest caring man, always available to help you out or chat about a problem. except during July when he packed his bag, donned his sash and joined his brethren on the hill in drumcree and forced his way through to the garvaghy road. The moral of my story is, you'll do things for your family that you wouldn't want others knowing about.

_Dara_ · 14-01-2018 3:48pm

I think what's making people suspicious is NOT mentioning his mother. It's a glaring omission as there's no way she had no influence on her son. She works in the field and they share a house.

judeboy101 · 14-01-2018 3:51pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

More than one similar study.

Here's another guess. He/they went for a better backstory ala x factor about his grandad, rather than more mundane, it's what his mum's been involved in for almost a decade.

Or he just doesn't like his mum and therefore didn't want to acknowledge her.

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

You can't get grounded if you don't do what your told, he can.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 14-01-2018 3:52pm

judeboy101 wrote: »

I had a lecturer in college, who was the kindest, gentlest caring man, always available to help you out or chat about a problem. except during July when he packed his bag, donned his sash and joined his brethren on the hill in drumcree and forced his way through to the garvaghy road. The moral of my story is, you'll do things for your family that you wouldn't want others knowing about.

I have no doubt that she would have helped him and guided him, but not to the extent of cheating.

Fann Linn · 14-01-2018 3:53pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I have no doubt that she would have helped him and guided him, but not to the extent of cheating.

Where is the fine line?

Bitches Be Trypsin · 14-01-2018 3:54pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Where is the fine line?

The fine line is taking inspiration, ideas, methods and backgrounds from others work, but not the work itself. He didn't cross that line.

Tom Mann Centuria · 14-01-2018 3:58pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

Where in that post have I said he copied his mother?

_Dara_ · 14-01-2018 4:04pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

She'll be credited in your work though. She might even be second author if you publish. We don't know if she wasn't credited in his work but in this context, it's strange that he didn't mention her. He did bring up his inspirations.

jd · 14-01-2018 8:14pm

Oh dear - where did he pick up this naturalistic fallacy?

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

The kid sounds clueless.

"These are organic, they don’t harbour any toxicity that you may get from industrialised antibiotics," he said.

Bigus · 14-01-2018 9:51pm

Definitely a conspiracy, I hear the Collison brothers owe their Daddy and their teacher 5 billion , and are paying it off slowly to avoid arousing suspicion about Stripe.

evolving_doors · 14-01-2018 9:58pm

Bigus wrote: »

Definitely a conspiracy, I hear the Collison brothers owe their Daddy and their teacher 5 billion , and are paying it off slowly to avoid arousing suspicion about Stripe.

What's this got to do with the collison brothers?

Bigus · 14-01-2018 10:00pm

evolving_doors wrote: »

What's this got to do with the collison brothers?

Young scientists runner up
And subsequent winner in 2005 so it proves young winners can stand on their own afterwards

14-01-2018 10:00pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

She'll be credited in your work though. She might even be second author if you publish. We don't know if she wasn't credited in his work but in this context, it's strange that he didn't mention her. He did bring up his inspirations.

So you have NO idea if she was credited or not but it's not stopping you from making insinuations?

Has anyone here actually read the acknowledgments in the project itself?

This thread is horrible. Irish begrudgery at its worst, based on not a shred of evidence.

Sardonicat · 14-01-2018 10:07pm

humpsterfire wrote: »

Its national dick-waving, but using adolescent dicks as a front, with big, secretive, hefty langers swinging pendulously in the background shadows.

The mental image this invokes is not pleasant.

AllForIt · 14-01-2018 11:05pm

fullstop wrote: »

NIMAN wrote: »

Its a disgrace Joe.

Why does someone have to post this exact response on every single one of these type of threads?

It's a disgrace Joe.

AllForIt · 14-01-2018 11:41pm

I have a science degree from UCD. Yeah big deal but here's my point. What I see when these kinds of events are taking place are employees from universities, heads of schools, professors etc doing their best to promote science subjects. There was one from UCD on RTE last week at the event rabbiting on about how fun science is, how anyone can do it and all that malarkey. She actually said that anyone can learn anything, that their is a misconception that one doesn't needs to be naturally good at maths..it's not true...anyone can just learn it... anyone can code etc etc.

I couldn't disagree more with her - in fact I think that's all lies afaic. I found my science degree fairly brutal and unnecessarily so. Once they convince the student to go science - all this it's so easy anyone can do it is thrown out the windows and they will design the course to give you more to do than most can handle. In my 4th year at UCD only 1/3 of the original class was left when I didn't see anyone particularly in the first few years who didn't have a great deal of natural ability. Most students turned up for most lectures and most tutorials and yet so many didn't make the final year.

I found the general attitude in the college was - 'well you might think your intelligent and you might think you've got some natural talent for this subject - but we are going to show you that that is not enough'. A far cry from the impression the representative from UCD on RTE attempted to create.

The fact is is that science and engineering subjects etc take an effort way beyond what is required in many other lucrative subject areas and the reason not enough students are taking STEM subjects is because they know that to be the case and they simply don't want that kind of life and who can blame them. They are not particularly well paid which is another issue. I wouldn't encourage anyone to go into science unless they were not just good at it but completely in love with it.

Gadgetman496 · 15-01-2018 1:15am

I'm a tad confused, can someone enlighten me?

This years winner was 15-year-old Simon Meehan from Coláiste Choilm in Ballincollig in Cork

The article from 2007 mentions "Dr Brigid Lucey, a senior medical scientist with the microbiology department of Cork University Hospital and Dr Lesley Cotter, a lecturer in biomedical sciences at CIT."

Neither have the surname "Meehan" so who is his mother?

r93kaey5p2izun · 15-01-2018 1:21am

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

I'm a tad confused, can someone enlighten me?

This years winner was 15-year-old Simon Meehan from Coláiste Choilm in Ballincollig in Cork

The article from 2007 mentions "Dr Brigid Lucey, a senior medical scientist with the microbiology department of Cork University Hospital and Dr Lesley Cotter, a lecturer in biomedical sciences at CIT."

Neither have the surname "Meehan" so who is his mother?

Dr Brigid Lucey.

Carlos Orange · 15-01-2018 1:21am

Gadgetman496 wrote: »

I'm a tad confused, can someone enlighten me?

This years winner was 15-year-old Simon Meehan from Coláiste Choilm in Ballincollig in Cork

The article from 2007 mentions "Dr Brigid Lucey, a senior medical scientist with the microbiology department of Cork University Hospital and Dr Lesley Cotter, a lecturer in biomedical sciences at CIT."

Neither have the surname "Meehan" so who is his mother?

Life isn't that simple any more. Brigid Lucey is his mum.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Cork-does-it-again-Simons-discovery-wins-Young-Scientist-Exhibition-8796cb4c-bec5-4359-a358-5b5f7c25982d-ds

evolving_doors · 15-01-2018 1:22am

not uncommon for academics to keep maiden name.

NinetyTwoTeam · 15-01-2018 1:54am

It's just like in the Simpsons pinebox derby race episode.

Well off academic parents = you get to cruise in the Roadkill 2000.

Working class parents = you have to drive the wonky car Homer Simpson built that falls apart before the finish line.

Except in reality the cheater always wins, as he did in the young scientist contest. It's actually really annoying me now, the parents are probably going around like they are so proud when they should be ashamed.

_Dara_ · 15-01-2018 3:20am

123654789 wrote: »

So you have NO idea if she was credited or not but it's not stopping you from making insinuations?

It's pretty clear that my posts on this thread have been speculative. I do know for sure that none of the newspaper articles I've read about it have mentioned her very relevant work and that's strange.

But, sure, begrudgery. What a unique angle.

_Dara_ · 15-01-2018 3:26am

AllForIt wrote: »

I have a science degree from UCD. Yeah big deal but here's my point. What I see when these kinds of events are taking place are employees from universities, heads of schools, professors etc doing their best to promote science subjects. There was one from UCD on RTE last week at the event rabbiting on about how fun science is, how anyone can do it and all that malarkey. She actually said that anyone can learn anything, that their is a misconception that one doesn't needs to be naturally good at maths..it's not true...anyone can just learn it... anyone can code etc etc.

I couldn't disagree more with her - in fact I think that's all lies afaic. I found my science degree fairly brutal and unnecessarily so.

As another science grad - I'd have to disagree with it being a bad thing to promote STEM as such. My biology degree was not that hard. Seriously. Many people are intimidated by science, lose their confidence in regards to learning it and put it on this pedestal and are in awe of anyone who studies it at university. I'm like 'Wha'?'. It takes a bit of pondering and a bit of study but that's it. Just like any other subject. It takes attuning to a certain way of thinking but the mind can trained for that purpose.

I took up chemistry in first year of university having only Junior Cert chemistry to my name. This was Trinity where the lecturers moved fast and you had to get up to speed quickly. Through sheer force of will and perspiration, it was my best exam result at the end of first year. I'm no genius, I just sat down and told myself I could do it and studied.

c.p.w.g.w · 15-01-2018 8:09am

_Dara_ wrote: »

As another science grad - I'd have to disagree with it being a bad thing to promote STEM as such. My biology degree was not that hard. Seriously. Many people are intimidated by science, lose their confidence in regards to learning it and put it on this pedestal and are in awe of anyone who studies it at university. I'm like 'Wha'?'. It takes a bit of pondering and a bit of study but that's it. Just like any other subject. It takes attuning to a certain way of thinking but the mind can trained for that purpose.

I took up chemistry in first year of university having only Junior Cert chemistry to my name. This was Trinity where the lecturers moved fast and you had to get up to speed quickly. Through sheer force of will and perspiration, it was my best exam result at the end of first year. I'm no genius, I just sat down and told myself I could do it and studied.

I certainly think Biology is probably the easiest out of Chemistry, Physic's & Biology.

I has planned to do Sports Science in college, went to an open day and they literally scared me(and a handful of others) away with all the chemistry talk, well at the time i thought it was more chemistry with zero Biology from the way they spoke about the course.

But having known a few people to graduate the course i know it wasn't has chemistry heavy as they lead on.

_Dara_ · 15-01-2018 8:13am

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

I certainly think Biology is probably the easiest out of Chemistry, Physic's & Biology.

I has planned to do Sports Science in college, went to an open day and they literally scared me(and a handful of others) away with all the chemistry talk, well at the time i thought it was more chemistry with zero Biology from the way they spoke about the course.

But having known a few people to graduate the course i know it wasn't has chemistry heavy as they lead on.

Chemistry is grand. I was terrified but it’s very logical. Biology is messier.

c.p.w.g.w · 15-01-2018 8:22am

_Dara_ wrote: »

Chemistry is grand. I was terrified but it’s very logical. Biology is messier.

Always found Biology the easiest, could have been my teacher in school

Wombatman · 15-01-2018 9:53am

_Dara_ wrote: »

It's pretty clear that my posts on this thread have been speculative. I do know for sure that none of the newspaper articles I've read about it have mentioned her very relevant work and that's strange.

But, sure, begrudgery. What a unique angle.

From the IT

A 15-year-old student from Co Cork who discovered a natural antibiotic in a blackberry bramble plant in his back garden has won the top prize at the 54th BT Young Scientist & Technology Exhibition.

Simon Meehan of Coláiste Choilm, Ballincollig, who was declared BT Young Scientist and Technologist of the Year at an awards ceremony in Dublin’s RDS on Friday night, found the “non toxic, organic, original antibiotic” after analysing 10 plants widely available in his locality.

“People are going deep into the Amazon rainforest looking for new antibiotics. But I’m a 15-year-old boy who found this down his own back garden. That has got to be amazing,” he told The Irish Times.

“I feel, without disrespecting the scientific community too much, that there should be some conclusions from this. We are over-thinking science in too many ways.”

His work combined botany, microbiology and analytic chemistry to demonstrate its effectiveness in killing Staphylococcus aureus, a bug that infects humans and is increasingly resistant to antibiotic treatment, especially when it comes in the form of the hospital-acquired infection MRSA. It was also shown to be effective in killing Pseudomonas aeruginosa, a potentially deadly bug, especially for those with cystic fibrosis.

He extracted anti-microbial agents from aerial parts of plants and their roots using ethanol and then tested their antibiotic effects.

The fourth year student has dedicated his work to his grandfather, Eddie Lucey, a well-known herbalist and science teacher in Bandon. Now 82, he helped people with medical conditions using herbs grown in his back garden; a tradition going back generations in his family.

“He has inspired my work. I am indebted to him for my knowledge.”
Simon, who had a framed picture of his grandfather on the display stand for his project, believes he is inheriting that rich tradition but in a different way. He loved botany as a child, he said, and that grew with the help of his teacher Karina Lyne into an avid interest in microbiology. He hopes to go on to a career in pharmaceuticals.

Judge and chair of the biological and ecological sciences category Prof John O’Halloran, said: “This is a really exciting project which explores the possibility of the blackberry leaf extract’s ability to control harmful bacteria.

Disingenuous is an understatement. Credit to the grandfather and the teacher but no mention of the mother, in any interview, who oversaw very similar research in the past.

Then the hubris to claim he discovered the link and to go on to criticize the scientific community at large for "over-thinking science".

Anyone who believes that this project was not orchestrated by the mother, to the smallest detail, including the misdirecting photo of the granddad is livening fairyland.

I believed there were plenty of hardworking, talented, students in the field who where let down by the overall decision and resulting hype. Nothing to do with begrudgery, everything to do with a desire for fair play.

Stinks to high heaven IMHO.

weldoninhio · 15-01-2018 10:01am

sullivlo wrote: »

As somebody who has:
- won the young scientist myself
- supervised/mentored a project that won two significant prizes
- worked at the young scientist
- provided assistance with reagents/equipment to projects over the years
- judged at science competitions

... I have some strong opinions on this topic, and am in a good position to comment.

Is it suspicious? Absolutely.

Is there a chance that parents/teachers had a say in the project? Yes.

Are there students out there that are just amazing and use their own initiative and contacts to get help? 100%.

When my students won, I was gobsmacked at the list of people that they had contacted for help. Not for the people to do the experiment, but for help with a technique or a technical aspect of the project. In the same way that when I was in academia I would help students who contacted me.

At the event, students are subjected to judging by experts in a field, and they are grilled to ensure that they did the work themselves, and it is quickly very obvious as to what they actually did and what anybody else did.

I spoke this years winner during the week. I did a postdoc position on a similar project so I had a genuine interest in it, and a good knowledge of the techniques he used. The kid is great, and he 100% did the work himself. Did his family help? Absolutely. His family inspired him through discussion, and would have aided him in his choice of interest by discussing their own work at home over the years.

There were several other incredible projects on display this year. Projects that, on paper, were better than the winning projects. But within two minutes it was obvious to anyone with any significant science background that somebody else did the work.

Sometimes people just have a passion for it, and they know what to do and they do it. When I won, it was in a field unfamiliar to my teacher, so it was my own/my groups work. When my students won, I felt like a fraud when people congratulated me, because my function was to sign the forms and proof read their work as I hadn’t a clue what they were up to. When students would cold-call me and ask if they could use something in the lab, the answer was always yes, and I would help them in any way that I could.

In conclusion/TL/DR: it is suspicious, but from experience sometimes kids are just *that* good at science.

Q. How many schools in Ireland do you know that are allowed use pathogenic bacterial strains, like this kid used for his project??

A. None

NeonSquares · 15-01-2018 10:09am

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

There was another winner a while back (1999?) from Cork, a girl called Sarah Flannery who developed an encryption algorithm. The algorithm itself ended up having some major flaws, but what was interesting about it at the time is that her father is/was a math lecturer in CIT and had worked in this area for a while.
So was a 15 year old really reading unpublished work from obscure Irish academics and basing her work on their research or did her dad use a friends unpublished work as a springboard to get his daughter a load of media attention and scholarship offers?

Hate to break it to you but Sarah is a very intelligent individual, the family upbringing had a lot to do with it, her brother is Mick Flanery(Irish musician).

Yes her parents are(former) educators but they obviously fostered the kids pretty good during they're upbringing.

Didn't she also turn down a ton of money and give away the algorithm for free?.

josip · 15-01-2018 10:16am

There are always suspicions surrounding the Young Scientists of the Year winners.
Some of it well founded, some not.
No surprise given the credit for its founding being claimed by Tony Scott.

15-01-2018 10:35am

People are missing the point a bit, its not just what the project is about its the work behinds it.

Two entrance could be working on a project of the same type but one will go above and beyond by a million in their project and that the crucial difference how do you answer the question are they going above and beyond all by themselves or because of the support they are getting.

However.

Is having a certain type of environment and support a big factor absolutely.

https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/traits/intelligence

"These studies suggest that genetic factors underlie about 50 percent of the difference in intelligence among individuals.

These studies have not conclusively identified any genes that underlie differences in intelligence. It is likely that a large number of genes are involved, each of which makes only a small contribution to a person’s intelligence.

Intelligence is also strongly influenced by the environment. Factors related to a child’s home environment and parenting, education and availability of learning resources, and nutrition"

15-01-2018 10:51am

If for a variety of reasons he was at the level of a postdoctoral student even though he was only 15 and he was coached by his mother would that still be considered "fraud" in the young scientist projects?.

Stoner · 15-01-2018 10:57am

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote:

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

Well you told us for a start, so you've acknowledged the guidance, that's number 1.

You are a 3rd level fee paying student being thought by a paid employee. The other students around you have the same resources, it's roughly fair. Here we are talking about kids, in 2nd level education with 2nd level teachers.

It's surprising that you can't see the difference here or can't see the potential of a boundary cross is surprising for someone studying at that level.

It's not about who was credited it's about who was not
It's not about the huge amount of work the student did, it's about the potential work that was spared.

Again I don't know a lot about this, I'd rather not make this personal.

So

Academically, individuals aside , this set of conditions if they occurred in my opinion would need some clarification, for everyone

Wombatman · 15-01-2018 11:04am

mariaalice wrote: »

If for a variety of reasons he was at the level of a postdoctoral student even though he was only 15 and he was coached by his mother would that still be considered "fraud" in the young scientist projects?.

It's not about the young fella or how talented\intelegent or otherwise he is. I'm sure he did put in a lot of hard work and he deserves credit for that.

The problem here the consistent omission of any reference to his mother who is a researcher in his project field. Revealing the mothers occupation in the field would not doubt beg the question "Could any student bring the project over the line given the support that he obviously received?"

Maybe the answer to this question is no, but people should have in a position to consider it before hand, and not just the heartwarming link to his herbalist granddad.

Martina1991 · 15-01-2018 11:13am

When I look at these young scientist projects I think back to my own level of scientific understanding at that age. These students have a junior cert standard of education. Junior cert Biology only scratches the surface of bacteria, viruses and fungi.

I got an A in science, I pursued it and now work as a scientist. I wouldn't have had a clue about understanding the parthenogenesis of antibiotic resistant bacteria in 4th year.

An inquisitive mind and intelligence is one thing, but having family members in a scientific field is a major advantage.

15-01-2018 11:22am

Martina1991 wrote: »

When I look at these young scientist projects I think back to my own level of scientific understanding at that age. These students have a junior cert standard of education. Junior cert Biology only scratches the surface of bacteria, viruses and fungi.

I got an A in science, I pursued it and now work as a scientist. I wouldn't have had a clue about understanding the parthenogenesis of antibiotic resistant bacteria in 4th year.

An inquisitive mind and intelligence is one thing, but having family members in a scientific field is a major advantage.

This a good point but how do you account for it in the young scientist setting, should pupils be banned from doing projects based on an area their parents or relatives are involved in how to account for the children of maths and science teacher.

Martina1991 · 15-01-2018 11:27am

mariaalice wrote: »

This a good point but how do you account for it in the young scientist setting, should pupils be banned from doing projects based on an area their parents or relatives are involved in how to account for the children of maths and science teacher.

I don't know how you could police it. If it's not the parents, the student could have an aunt/uncle/cousin that's a scientist as well.

It may be just a case of don't hate the player, hate the game.
To excel in the competition students are probably well aware they need a good deal of help from an experienced individual, and the resources to go with it.

Roger Hassenforder · 15-01-2018 11:57am

mariaalice wrote: »

Martina1991 wrote: »

When I look at these young scientist projects I think back to my own level of scientific understanding at that age. These students have a junior cert standard of education. Junior cert Biology only scratches the surface of bacteria, viruses and fungi.

I got an A in science, I pursued it and now work as a scientist. I wouldn't have had a clue about understanding the parthenogenesis of antibiotic resistant bacteria in 4th year.

An inquisitive mind and intelligence is one thing, but having family members in a scientific field is a major advantage.

This a good point but how do you account for it in the young scientist setting, should pupils be banned from doing projects based on an area their parents or relatives are involved in how to account for the children of maths and science teacher.

One way would be banning equipment not reasonably found in a secondary school, and when i hear the words "organic chemistry" in a secondary school science project alarm bells ring.

Microscope: fine.
Electron microscope: GTFO
Burette/pipette/conical flask: fine
HPLC/GC: GTFO

jmayo · 15-01-2018 12:32pm

Marty Bird wrote: »

From the IT..

The fourth year student has dedicated his work to his grandfather, Eddie Lucey, a well-known herbalist and science teacher in Bandon. Now 82, he helped people with medical conditions using herbs grown in his back garden; a tradition going back generations in his family.

Not one mention of the mother working in that field whatsoever..

So the mother works in a field, but the grandfather worked in a garden.
So where again is the young fella going to work ?

sullivlo wrote: »

As somebody who has:
- won the young scientist myself
- supervised/mentored a project that won two significant prizes
- worked at the young scientist
- provided assistance with reagents/equipment to projects over the years
- judged at science competitions

... I have some strong opinions on this topic, and am in a good position to comment.

Is it suspicious? Absolutely.

Do say ?

Marty Bird wrote: »

Is there a chance that parents/teachers had a say in the project? Yes.

Now the interesting thing is how big a say mammy had seen as she has been involved professionally and academically in this very research for over a decade ?

Marty Bird wrote: »

I spoke this years winner during the week. I did a postdoc position on a similar project so I had a genuine interest in it, and a good knowledge of the techniques he used. The kid is great, and he 100% did the work himself.

How can you say that he 100% of the work ?
Can you say with 100% certainty that he didn't just follow everything mammy did and advised.
Does doing all the legwork following a carefully laid out tried and tested roadmap as per mammy count as a great project ?

Marty Bird wrote: »

In conclusion/TL/DR: it is suspicious, but from experience sometimes kids are just *that* good at science.

They may be good at science and they can also bend the rules.

jmayo · 15-01-2018 12:34pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

The Collison brothers are certainly living the life, still making millions upon millions on the back of their parents Young Scientists work if theories here are applied.

Patrick Collison was programming at age 10, and it wasn't on a Raspberry Pi neither.
He won with an AI project involving the creation a LISP like language.
And anyone that has ever worked with LISP would say it a is bit of an acquired taste unlike some other languages.

Their dad was an electrical engineer who ran a hotel and their mother ran a corporate training company from their home and has a background in
microbiology.
Neither of them it seems worked in AI, or to level where they were creating their own computer languages.

Patrick spent his last year studying at home and did his 2 year leaving cert cycle in one year AFAIK.

I don't know if this kid in Cork has shown such aptitude, all I know so far is his project mirrors that carried out by his mother 10 odd years ago.

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

His mother currently lectures me in CIT, she doesn't lecture in UCC, just to clear that up. She is an incredibly honest, successful and ethical woman, and while she may have helped him in his studies, I have no doubt at all that the boy did the majority of the work.

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote: »

I'm currently doing research on finding an antibiotic against MRSA in CIT. I'm using soil samples. Dr. Lucey has guided me and taught me for the last two years about various aspects of biology. However, I'm not copying her project. How can you say he is, and I'm not?

Forgive us for disregarding your glowing recommendation on her character.
You have huge skin in the game here.
It is in your personal best interests that there are no questions regarding her input into her son's prominent project, that there is no hint of impropriety attached to her in a professional and ethical capacity, because otherwise how does it look when her name appears on anything you publish down the road.

Tom Mann Centuria · 15-01-2018 12:41pm

A very interesting thread on twitter imo, it's not begrudgery, it's an acknowledgement that a "normal" student from a normal background cannot compete and it's a completely unfair playing field.

https://twitter.com/alancostello/status/952243965310496768

Sac O Spuds · 15-01-2018 12:58pm

Just caught TV3 news and they showed him back in school today. Says he has his grandfather to thank. Spouted off some guff about cures being found in nature and dealing with the newfound fame. No mention of the Mammy.

Carlos Orange · 15-01-2018 1:21pm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

A very interesting thread on twitter imo, it's not begrudgery, it's an acknowledgement that a "normal" student from a normal background cannot compete and it's a completely unfair playing field.

https://twitter.com/alancostello/status/952243965310496768

The tweet from a person saying they tried to enter a similar project before and it was rejected due to safety concerns was interesting.

Stoner · 15-01-2018 2:35pm

jmayo wrote:

Their dad was an electrical engineer who ran a hotel and their mother ran a corporate training company from their home and has a background in microbiology. Neither of them it seems worked in AI, or to level where they were creating their own computer languages.

I agree as an electrical engineer with additional IT qualifications, LISP etc were not on our Engineering radar, I'd to cover that elsewhere

I do know an electronic engineer from DCU who's project was on AI and works at it to this day, but that was rare

valoren · 15-01-2018 2:41pm

Sac O Spuds wrote: »

Just caught TV3 news and they showed him back in school today. Says he has his grandfather to thank. Spouted off some guff about cures being found in nature and dealing with the newfound fame. No mention of the Mammy.

"If I have seen further, then it is because I was standing on the shoulders of my mother"

goose2005 · 15-01-2018 3:19pm

sullivlo wrote: »

As somebody who has:
- won the young scientist myself
- supervised/mentored a project that won two significant prizes
- worked at the young scientist
- provided assistance with reagents/equipment to projects over the years
- judged at science competitions

... I have some strong opinions on this topic, and am in a good position to comment.

Is it suspicious? Absolutely.

Is there a chance that parents/teachers had a say in the project? Yes.

Are there students out there that are just amazing and use their own initiative and contacts to get help? 100%.

When my students won, I was gobsmacked at the list of people that they had contacted for help. Not for the people to do the experiment, but for help with a technique or a technical aspect of the project. In the same way that when I was in academia I would help students who contacted me.

At the event, students are subjected to judging by experts in a field, and they are grilled to ensure that they did the work themselves, and it is quickly very obvious as to what they actually did and what anybody else did.

I spoke this years winner during the week. I did a postdoc position on a similar project so I had a genuine interest in it, and a good knowledge of the techniques he used. The kid is great, and he 100% did the work himself. Did his family help? Absolutely. His family inspired him through discussion, and would have aided him in his choice of interest by discussing their own work at home over the years.

There were several other incredible projects on display this year. Projects that, on paper, were better than the winning projects. But within two minutes it was obvious to anyone with any significant science background that somebody else did the work.

Sometimes people just have a passion for it, and they know what to do and they do it. When I won, it was in a field unfamiliar to my teacher, so it was my own/my groups work. When my students won, I felt like a fraud when people congratulated me, because my function was to sign the forms and proof read their work as I hadn’t a clue what they were up to. When students would cold-call me and ask if they could use something in the lab, the answer was always yes, and I would help them in any way that I could.

In conclusion/TL/DR: it is suspicious, but from experience sometimes kids are just *that* good at science.

nice post, did your mother write it for you?

goose2005 · 15-01-2018 3:20pm

diomed wrote: »

Year School
1995 Abbey Grammar School, Newry
1993 Abbey Grammar School, Newry, Co. Down

1977 Colaiste Mhuire, Dublin
1972 Colte Mhuire, Baile Atha Cliath

2013 Kinsale Community School, Cork
2006 Kinsale Community School, County Cork
2009 Kinsale Community School, County Cork

1999 Scoil Mhuire Gan Sm Blarney
2010 Scoil Mhuire Gan Sm Blarney, County Cork

1975 St Finian’s College, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath
2003 St Finnian's College, Mullingar, County Westmeath

2004 Synge Street CBS, Dublin
2007 Synge Street CBS, Dublin
2012 Synge Street CBS, Dublin

43 years of the contest, 14 won by multiple school winners.
723 secondary schools in Ireland.

and 3 counties out of 32 have won 72% of the hurling all-Irelands. Clearly they're cheating too.

joe40 · 15-01-2018 3:32pm

The young scientist competition overall is great, but I strongly believe projects should be at leaving certificate standard of science, and not require specialist equipment.
How did a pupil in a school lab carry out investigations using MRSA. I teach Science in the North and no way would that be allowed. These are nasty pathogens. Leaving cert standard does not mean limited to the content of the leaving cert rather the sampling and measurement techniques employed should be accessible to all students.
I think it would be interesting if the organisers produced a list of projects beforehand (only broad outline) and pupils had to choose one to investigate. This would still leave a lot of original work and ideas for pupils to do.

goose2005 · 15-01-2018 3:42pm

Irene Joliot-Curie won a Nobel Prize for discovering artificial radioactivity, although presumably her parents did all the work for her too

BT Young Scientist - is there something fishy? MOD Note in OP

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