Dunnes not accepting clubcards stored electronically on the phone.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 05:56AM #1

Hi, I hate having too many cards in my wallet, I don't like those small cards you can attach to your keys.
I downloaded an android app called Stocard, that you can store all your clubcards. It stores the clubcard number and displays a barcode if needed.
Yesterday I asked a person on the till in Dunnes if he can scan it from my phone or just get the number from there if unable to scan.
I was told they don't accept it! only physical clubcards!
I was with the child and didn't have much time anyway, otherwise would try to find out from the manager, as nobody that was around knew the reason.

Does anybody know what id the reason for that? We live in times where you can pay with your phone, but can't store your clubcard there?
Thanks.

Doodah7 · 24-01-2018 08:35AM

Their scheme, their rules!!! If carrying the card is such a hardship, leave it at home!!

Victor · 24-01-2018 08:40AM

guza81 wrote: »

We live in times where you can pay with your phone

In Irish supermarkets?

beechwood55 · 24-01-2018 08:42AM

Victor wrote: »

In Irish supermarkets?

Yes. I have ApplePay on my phone and regularly use it in Tesco and other independent supermarkets. Mind you I have not tried to use it in Dunnes.

ArthurG · 24-01-2018 08:46AM

Possibly due to the new coverall excuse that's slowly replacing 'health and safety' as a way to get out of everything...... 'data protection'.

Xterminator · 24-01-2018 08:50AM

Erm did you try using a pic at the self service till ?

Mr.H · 24-01-2018 08:53AM

I hate that attitude of "I don't like what the person at the till is telling me so just get a manager".

I mean come on. If they are telling you something just accept it. It's fair enough. Those apps are third party apps that have nothing to do with the companies such as Dunnes. As someone said above, if you think buts hassle then leave your card at home.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 24-01-2018 09:27AM

Another first world problem. If carrying a card is such hassle then don't bother with it but don't complain that they won't play by your rules. I must photocopy my card and give it to all my family and friends to use when they're next in Dunnes.

Wildcard7 · 24-01-2018 09:27AM

Mr.H wrote: »

I hate that attitude of "I don't like what the person at the till is telling me so just get a manager".

The OP didn't want a manager to complain to, but to find out what could possibly be the reason for this ridiculous policy.

Mr.H wrote: »

I mean come on. If they are telling you something just accept it. It's fair enough. Those apps are third party apps that have nothing to do with the companies such as Dunnes.

It's a 2d barcode that contains a number. That's all. It's not magic. It's nothing but a black and white picture with a number encoded. It doesn't matter whether this barcode is on a little card, or on your phone screen. If you're accurate enough you can even draw it on a piece of paper. Or you can read the number that the 2d barcode represents to the cashier and he keys it in manually. It's the same bloody thing. Instead of using the evil third party app you could just use your phones camera to take a picture of the original card, and have the reader scan that picture off the phone.

Get a grip. It's a 2d barcode containing a number, the media through which you supply it to Dunnes really shouldn't matter.

Of course Dunnes has every right to inconvenience their customers, just as customers have every right to complain about Dunnes if they're being inconvenienced for no reason at all.

Alun · 24-01-2018 09:30AM

Victor wrote: »

In Irish supermarkets?

Welcome to the 21st century. What cave have you been living in?

Mr.H · 24-01-2018 09:55AM

Wildcard7 wrote:

Get a grip. It's a 2d barcode containing a number, the media through which you supply it to Dunnes really shouldn't matter.

It is also possible to mod your card app to add additional points to your card.

Since it is a third party app (and yes it's a third party app), Dunnes have no control over the app and can't ensure it is not tampered with.

Firstly the modding issue would he a concern. Then the is the issue of how this data is stored. Again Dunnes have no control of this. If a customers details where accessed from this app then is Dunnes liable orchestra app maker who claims it bus just taking a picture of the card even though nobody should even see your card jumpers as they are privileged data.

Then of course there is the issue with tills not being able to always scan from the phone. Some tills swipe cards rather than scan for example. Whole other tills just don't recognize the bar code. This is hassle for companies.

Why should Dunnes or any company honour an app when they have given you the means to use your card, by providing you a card and possible key tag also.

Dunnes are not the issue.

Customers with the attitude of the op who feel entitled are.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 10:07AM

Wildcard7 wrote: »

The OP didn't want a manager to complain to, but to find out what could possibly be the reason for this ridiculous policy.

It's a 2d barcode that contains a number. That's all. It's not magic. It's nothing but a black and white picture with a number encoded. It doesn't matter whether this barcode is on a little card, or on your phone screen. If you're accurate enough you can even draw it on a piece of paper. Or you can read the number that the 2d barcode represents to the cashier and he keys it in manually. It's the same bloody thing. Instead of using the evil third party app you could just use your phones camera to take a picture of the original card, and have the reader scan that picture off the phone.

Get a grip. It's a 2d barcode containing a number, the media through which you supply it to Dunnes really shouldn't matter.

Of course Dunnes has every right to inconvenience their customers, just as customers have every right to complain about Dunnes if they're being inconvenienced for no reason at all.

Thanks.
That's exactly what I think.
Not sure what the other people are talking about, hacking the app? It only stores the number. Plain number.

And yes you're right, didn't want to complain to manager, just wanted to ask what is the reason they can't do it, out of curiosity. Because I do see it as big advantage of you could.

And I do respect their policy, they probably have a reason for that, I just wanted to know what is it.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 10:09AM

Mr.H wrote: »

It is also possible to mod your card app to add additional points to your card.

Since it is a third party app (and yes it's a third party app), Dunnes have no control over the app and can't ensure it is not tampered with.

Firstly the modding issue would he a concern. Then the is the issue of how this data is stored. Again Dunnes have no control of this. If a customers details where accessed from this app then is Dunnes liable orchestra app maker who claims it bus just taking a picture of the card even though nobody should even see your card jumpers as they are privileged data.

Then of course there is the issue with tills not being able to always scan from the phone. Some tills swipe cards rather than scan for example. Whole other tills just don't recognize the bar code. This is hassle for companies.

Why should Dunnes or any company honour an app when they have given you the means to use your card, by providing you a card and possible key tag also.

Dunnes are not the issue.

Customers with the attitude of the op who feel entitled are.

I'm sorry, but I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Wildcard7 · 24-01-2018 10:20AM

Mr.H wrote: »

Firstly the modding issue would he a concern. Then the is the issue of how this data is stored. Again Dunnes have no control of this. If a customers details where accessed from this app

What?

The only data that these apps store is the number of the loyalty card. They don't allow anyone to access your Dunnes account (if there is such a thing). That app does nothing that a photocopy of your loyalty card doesn't do. There is no customer data stored in that app, just as there is no customer data stored on your loyalty card (it's a piece of paper with a barcode).

Seriously it's JUST a customer number, represented as a 2d or 1d barcode.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 10:21AM

Doodah7 wrote: »

Their scheme, their rules!!! If carrying the card is such a hardship, leave it at home!!

I think you got me wrong, I'm not complaining here. Didn't want to complain to manager just politely ask what stops them moving towards technology.

Fortunately most of the businesses have a better attitude towards the customers than you. At the end of the day it's customers they make money off.

TheChizler · 24-01-2018 10:24AM

Dunnes in my experience have no problem scanning the 1D barcode if you've it stored on your phone, it's the 2D (similar to QR code) one they can't scan on the till, even though it's on the loyalty card. If you're using the loyalty card feature in Android Pay or whatever app it's the 1D one you need to use.

GhostyMcGhost · 24-01-2018 10:27AM

Mr.H wrote: »

It is also possible to mod your card app to add additional points to your card.

No it's not

It's literally a barcode. I use it myself years now and never had any issues and where I couldn't scan its always typed,. Mostly use self service and its easy to do it myself (item does not scan - > enter number)

Farmer Bob · 24-01-2018 10:32AM

guza81 wrote: »

...Does anybody know what id the reason for that? We live in times where you can pay with your phone, but can't store your clubcard there?
Thanks.

Presumably they don't want a bunch of people potentially sharing a single club card in order to rack up discount vouchers, or screwing with their analysis of purchases.

As an aside, I used Stocard myself for a while but found it to be hit and miss - mainly because a lot of scanners can't read the barcode off the phone screen

guza81 · 24-01-2018 10:36AM

TheChizler wrote: »

Dunnes in my experience have no problem scanning the 1D barcode if you've it stored on your phone, it's the 2D (similar to QR code) one they can't scan on the till, even though it's on the loyalty card. If you're using the loyalty card feature in Android Pay or whatever app it's the 1D one you need to use.

No this is 1D , the most basic barcode they refused to scan. It's not that they technically can't, they we're told not to. A man at the till said he's done it before and it worked but they are now not allowed to do it. He wouldn't even take number from it.
Then he proceeded to take my number from the previous 10 off 50 voucher I had and that was ok.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 10:43AM

Farmer Bob wrote: »

Presumably they don't want a bunch of people potentially sharing a single club card in order to rack up discount vouchers, or screwing with their analysis of purchases.

As an aside, I used Stocard myself for a while but found it to be hit and miss - mainly because a lot of scanners can't read the barcode off the phone screen

Now, finally, this is the only reason I could possibly think of. As they only send you what? 2 or 3 copies of the club card. Big one and two key fobs or something, not sure.

papu · 24-01-2018 10:43AM

guza81 wrote: »

Thanks.
That's exactly what I think.
Not sure what the other people are talking about, hacking the app? It only stores the number. Plain number.

And yes you're right, didn't want to complain to manager, just wanted to ask what is the reason they can't do it, out of curiosity. Because I do see it as big advantage of you could.

And I do respect their policy, they probably have a reason for that, I just wanted to know what is it.

The app could easily manipulate the barcode to go to another club card, if the developer gets 20k people using the app and one day switches to their own account, how many points will they amass before anyone notices? And will dunnes be put under pressure to reverse this / give points back. It's a logistical nightmare, they don't have to support 3rd party apps, come up with another creative solution to bring your card, or ask dunnes to commission their own app.

Farmer Bob · 24-01-2018 10:51AM

guza81 wrote: »

Does anybody know what id the reason for that? We live in times where you can pay with your phone, but can't store your clubcard there?
Thanks.

I just wondered something else: does your Dunnes have self-service tills, and if they do are you able to use Stocard on them?

papu wrote: »

The app could easily manipulate the barcode to go to another club card, if the developer gets 20k people using the app and one day switches to their own account, how many points will they amass before anyone notices?

That's tinfoil hat kinda stuff there, and unlikely in the extreme...

Alun · 24-01-2018 10:56AM

papu wrote: »

The app could easily manipulate the barcode to go to another club card, if the developer gets 20k people using the app and one day switches to their own account, how many points will they amass before anyone notices? And will dunnes be put under pressure to reverse this / give points back. It's a logistical nightmare, they don't have to support 3rd party apps, come up with another creative solution to bring your card, or ask dunnes to commission their own app.

Ah yes, I see, an international gang of sophisticated cybercriminals making their fortune by amassing Dunnes Club card points. I can see them now trotting up to their local Dunnes in Kiev with the 100 million Club Card point vouchers they've had mailed to them, ready to exchange them for food and soft furnishings no questions asked.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 11:04AM

papu wrote: »

The app could easily manipulate the barcode to go to another club card, if the developer gets 20k people using the app and one day switches to their own account, how many points will they amass before anyone notices? And will dunnes be put under pressure to reverse this / give points back. It's a logistical nightmare, they don't have to support 3rd party apps, come up with another creative solution to bring your card, or ask dunnes to commission their own app.

Never thought about this, this is spot on, previous person talking about hacking the account made me smile a little because this is nothing too do with your Dunnes account, as we said it's just a number, but he was half right talking about third party apps. Even if we know that the app only stores the number locally Dunnes can't keep track of all the apps in the play store.

Kind of understand it now.

It would be nice if they (and other stores) would come up with something, for people that don't like to carry large wallets with them.

dr.fuzzenstein · 24-01-2018 11:15AM

guza81 wrote: »

Never thought about this, this is spot on, previous person talking about hacking the account made me smile a little because this is nothing too do with your Dunnes account, as we said it's just a number, but he was half right talking about third party apps. Even if we know that the app only stores the number locally Dunnes can't keep track of all the apps in the play store.

Kind of understand it now.

It would be nice if they (and other stores) would come up with something, for people that don't like to carry large wallets with them.

I don't think international crime syndicates are in the process of hacking the Dunnes system in order to rack up 2 bazillion points that then can be exchanged for Denny rashers and some cheese.

As was pointed out before, go to self-service till, it will scan the barcode of anything, Theoretically you could get a tattoo of it on any piece of anatomy you desire, you then wave this piece of anatomy in front of the scanner and it will go Bip! and thank you very much.
I would also guess that if you go to 10 different cashiers, 9 won't care if it's on an app.
Maybe Dunnes should develop their own app? I bet it will take 10 years and cost €5 million...

I would have absolutely no qualms about getting a few extra points, I think the savings are in the order of a fraction of 1%, it is absolutely miniscule and certainly not worth the hassle.
In the end I found it still works out cheaper to go to Aldi or Lidl where they don't bother with this nonsense to fool people into thinking they're getting something in return.
The "reward" system is used for one thing and one thing only, gathering information on the buying habits of their customers and for that you get thrown a few coupons for stuff no one every buys that they want to get shot off and a saving of less than 1%.
I'd ask myself, is it worth it? All these reward schemes are a fraud and what you get out of them is next to nothing. You're financially better off to go to a discounter and not having the additional hassle and papwerork. It's all dazzle and nothing more.

dudara · 24-01-2018 11:19AM

I use this exact same app also, and I’ve never encountered this problem, even at Dunnes. The till operators at Dunnes either scan the barcode from the app or they manually key it in.

The only time I’ve ever had any trouble was when I asked if I could redeem my Boots points and they said that they would want to see the physical card for redemption. Fair enough, except that the physical card is long gone.

In general, it’s a very handy app and saves me having to carry numerous loyalty cards. I use it at Tesco, SuperValu, Dunnes, Boots, House of Fraser, Butlers, Brown Thomas, Subway etc. it’s essneitally the equivalent of writing down all your membership numbers on a piece of paper, only in the app you add in pictures of the card etc.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 11:33AM

dudara wrote: »

I use this exact same app also, and I’ve never encountered this problem, even at Dunnes. The till operators at Dunnes either scan the barcode from the app or they manually key it in.

The only time I’ve ever had any trouble was when I asked if I could redeem my Boots points and they said that they would want to see the physical card for redemption. Fair enough, except that the physical card is long gone.

In general, it’s a very handy app and saves me having to carry numerous loyalty cards. I use it at Tesco, SuperValu, Dunnes, Boots, House of Fraser, Butlers, Brown Thomas etc

That's weird, so it looks like it's not a dunnes policy in general but certain shops. This is strange.
Yes it is handy app, if I could use it.
Good to know there's others or there that like to simplify life. The first few answers here were nearly "if you can't carry your club card, die!!"

Hotblack Desiato · 24-01-2018 11:41AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This rant is ridiculous and seems to be based on fantasy.

There is no barcode on a Dunnes loyalty card, the number is stored in a magnetic stripe. What use is a photo of a magnetic stripe?

Ooh, big font and all. You're still completely wrong though. Dunnes cards have not had a magnetic strip for many years.

Farmer Bob · 24-01-2018 11:41AM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

This rant is ridiculous and seems to be based on fantasy.

There is no barcode on a Dunnes loyalty card, the number is stored in a magnetic stripe. What use is a photo of a magnetic stripe?

This is what a barcode on the back of a Dunnes loyalty card looks like:

Farmer Bob · 24-01-2018 11:49AM

Charles Babbage wrote:

This rant is ridiculous and seems to be based on fantasy.

There is no barcode on my Dunnes loyalty card, the number is stored in a magnetic stripe. What use is a photo of a magnetic stripe?

Are there newer cards with such a barcode?

You know there are. You changed your post after I replied to you with a picture of one.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-01-2018 11:55AM

Farmer Bob wrote: »

You know there are. You changed your post after I replied to you with a picture of one.

Careful, we can copy that barcode and all start earning points for you now :P

Skatedude · 24-01-2018 12:20PM

Supermarkets can be slow in Ireland to adopt new tech, But in this case it can also be to stop people taking advantage of the points system.

The club card is simply a customer number, it adds points to your account which is stored on the supermarkets database, NO INFORMATION IS STORED ON THE CARD OR APP. But you can easily share the card with friends, but you only have one card to share, With the app, you can in theory, screenshot the app page and share that card with many friends who can then add points to YOUR account. That is what they dont want to happen.

But the supermarkets do need to move with the times and electronic payments using phones will continue to grow.

Hotblack Desiato · 24-01-2018 12:24PM

Not true, they give you three cards when you sign up. If other people effectively choose to give you their points there is a gain for you, a loss to them, but it makes no difference either way to Dunnes.

loyatemu · 24-01-2018 12:36PM

I hadn't realised Android pay had this feature - I've added my Dunnes and SuperValu barcodes, but when I add the Tesco clubcard, it just asks for the number and there's no option to add a barcode. Has anyone got this working?

Tesco's own app doesn't even store the bloody barcode for use at the till, even though you can scan it in for online shopping.

TheChizler · 24-01-2018 12:42PM

loyatemu wrote: »

I hadn't realised Android pay had this feature - I've added my Dunnes and SuperValu barcodes, but when I add the Tesco clubcard, it just asks for the number and there's no option to add a barcode. Has anyone got this working?

This is a problem in the UK as well according to forums. It's impossible to add the barcode. Tesco need to sort it out with Android Pay.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 04:19PM

I've got an answer from Dunnes on facebook:

"Hi xxxxxxxxx, Thank you for contacting Dunnes Stores customer service, currently we are required to have customers provide the physical VALUEclub card in store in order to obtain VALUEclub points, if you do not have your VALUEclub card with you at the time of transaction you can bring your receipt to any Customer Service desk within 14 days of your purchase and the points will be added to your account. I hope this clears up the matter for you and apologies for any inconvenience caused Regards xxxxx Customer Service."

No answer to the question.
A Secret.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 05:24PM

From Dunnes on android pay:

"We accept both Apple and Android Pay as a method of payment in stores, we have a limit of €30 for both."

Great they support it, disappointing that only 30€.

L1011 · 24-01-2018 05:41PM

30 limit is the norm for contactless, until the phone is better able to prove the holder is the owner it should be treated the same as a contactless card

guza81 · 24-01-2018 05:51PM

L1011 wrote: »

30 limit is the norm for contactless, until the phone is better able to prove the holder is the owner it should be treated the same as a contactless card

This norm is for cards and not android pay.
With android pay you can pay up to 30 by only waking your phone up. And to pay more than that you have to unlock your phone, "prove the holder is the owner" like you said.

That's why having a screen lock activated is a requirement for android pay.

coylemj · 24-01-2018 05:56PM

Allowing the checkout staff to scan a mobile phone would require someone to make a decision, much easier to just say 'no'. As an organisation, they are notorious for delegating as little decision-making as possible to the stores so somebody in head office has decided that they're not allowed to do it and that's the end of it.

Farmer Bob · 24-01-2018 05:58PM

L1011 wrote: »

30 limit is the norm for contactless, until the phone is better able to prove the holder is the owner it should be treated the same as a contactless card

You can make payments over €30 with Android Pay, you just need to unlock the phone to 'authenticate' yourself.

Apple say that "You might not be able to use Apple Pay for purchases over 30 EUR."

L1011 · 24-01-2018 06:12PM

guza81 wrote: »

This norm is for cards and not android pay.
With android pay you can pay up to 30 by only waking your phone up. And to pay more than that you have to unlock your phone, "prove the holder is the owner" like you said.

That's why having a screen lock activated is a requirement for android pay.

Do you have to re-auth if the screen is already unlocked?

guza81 · 24-01-2018 06:21PM

L1011 wrote: »

Do you have to re-auth if the screen is already unlocked?

Not sure, I'm new to android pay, didn't make a single payment yet, I've just change Banks and one of the reasons was that the new one supports android pay. I think it's convenient when you don't have your card with you. Most people would still carry phones around.

guza81 · 24-01-2018 06:26PM

L1011 wrote: »

Do you have to re-auth if the screen is already unlocked?

But why would you keep it unlocked?
Nothing is foolproof anyway.
If you know you have android pay, keep it locked, set up screen timeout, at a minute or two. The same with cards, if you'll stick a note with your pin to the card, or keep it in the wallet, somebody can take advantage of it.

JohnC. · 24-01-2018 06:54PM

Both Android and Apple support paying over €30. It's a business decision if they don't. I've heard Tesco don't go over €30 either, though it was a while ago. Don't know about others.

ED E · 24-01-2018 09:43PM

JohnC. wrote: »

Both Android and Apple support paying over €30. It's a business decision if they don't. I've heard Tesco don't go over €30 either, though it was a while ago. Don't know about others.

They dont support or not support it, the terminal provider sets the cap. When you go abroad it can be a measly 30PLN (€8) as thats what the terminal is configured to.

TheChizler · 25-01-2018 02:08AM

L1011 wrote: »

Do you have to re-auth if the screen is already unlocked?

Only if there's some other process preventing it from secure locking, such as Smartlock. If you use a code to unlock you can force secure lock by tapping the lock button before swiping to unlock. This stops it prompting you for your code at the till and wasting time and looking stupid in front of the cashier.

misstearheus · 25-01-2018 02:19AM

Don't see why posts seem to think the O.P. is so self-entitled! Obviously someone somewhere has to try things. And anyway it's often the case that Store Club Cards can't be picked-up on the Machine and they end up getting entered manually and work fine zero problems! There certainly is an element of reluctance in the Shop's part i.m.o. Shure what dimension is keying in a Card Number!!

. Did he even try to use it O.P. Or did he just fob you off and not bother?

Skedaddle · 25-01-2018 02:20AM

Victor wrote: »

In Irish supermarkets?

SuperValu club cards are entirely geared up for mobile use. They even have scanners on the tills specifically for mobiles, pointing towards you.The vouchers are sent to your mobile app.

The problem with Stocard is that only camera type scanners can read the screens. The laser scanners used in a lot of till systems aren't able to read a barcode on a screen. You're expecting them to key in a very long code manually, which isn't easy, it's time consuming and it's holding up the queue. Dunnes just don't support this and it's not their product. Replacing thousands of scanners isn't cheap.

Tesco has no issue with Stocard because they've handheld scanners that can read screens on all their tools. The self scan won't read them however.

You can pay by Apple Pay or Android Pay in pretty much every Irish supermarket, including self scan
Some places support full Apple Pay / Android Pay for any amount as it's authorised with a pin or biometrics, others treat it exactly like regular contactless and limit to €30.

Aldi for example fully supports Apple Pay. You put through any amount.

guza81 · 25-01-2018 03:54AM

I see your point on the queues.
On the android/apple pay, it would be nice if retailers would display it somewhere at the entrance, 'we support android pay up to 30' or fully or whatever. Instead of customers having to test the water every time in a new place.
Theoretically android pay should be accepted by everyone that offers contactless option. The only thing that Bank says is they might or might not accept payments over 30. This is how I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong.
That is actually a good idea for a new thread, Just to post the places that support it fully, partially or do not support it. Unless such thread exists, I couldn't find it.

Skedaddle · 25-01-2018 08:00AM

Theoretically, yeah but it's down to the retailer and the card terminal operator to programme them.

A lot of the terminals do actually display it is n them - it's often on the screen or on a "wobbler" (little stick on display card)

For some reason Topaz garages not only don't accept it for larger amounts but also bizzarely make you sign a slip too!

Dunnes not accepting clubcards stored electronically on the phone.

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