Installing a charger for customer use

Silent Running · 10-06-2019 04:28PM #1

If a profitable business wants to install a charger for their customers to use, what options do they have? I've heard there are are incentives where the full cost can be written off against tax in the first year. Is this a fact or a rumour?

Does anyone know what the arrangement is with Easygo? I'm going to e-mail them and ask, but any info welcome.

Thanks.

KCross · 10-06-2019 04:32PM

Silent Running wrote: »

If a profitable business wants to install a charger for their customers to use, what options do they have? I've heard there are are incentives where the full cost can be written off against tax in the first year. Is this a fact or a rumour?

Does anyone know what the arrangement is with Easygo? I'm going to e-mail them and ask, but any info welcome.

Thanks.

Fact, although I think what you buy needs to cost €1k+. Anything below that doesnt qualify.
https://www.seai.ie/energy-in-business/accelerated-capital-allowance/

ELM327 · 11-06-2019 02:05PM

Depending on the business you could also contact Tesla for a destination charger

unkel · 11-06-2019 03:33PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Depending on the business you could also contact Tesla for a destination charger

Do Tesla (partially) sponsor these installs?

ELM327 · 11-06-2019 04:15PM

unkel wrote: »

Do Tesla (partially) sponsor these installs?

As far as I am aware they install them for free but you have to pay for the electricity.

A huge benefit (depending on the vertical/industry of the business in the OP of course) of which is that you appear on the tesla map.

KCross · 11-06-2019 04:22PM

ELM327 wrote: »

As far as I am aware they install them for free but you have to pay for the electricity.

A huge benefit (depending on the vertical/industry of the business in the OP of course) of which is that you appear on the tesla map.

And I presume you have to open your "doors" to the public?

The value of the free charge point and install might not be worth that hassle particularly if you want your own staff to have access.
It would be worth it for, say, a restaurant, as an incentive to attract customers.

Silent Running · 11-06-2019 04:36PM

KCross wrote: »

And I presume you have to open your "doors" to the public?

The value of the free charge point and install might not be worth that hassle particularly if you want your own staff to have access.
It would be worth it for, say, a restaurant, as an incentive to attract customers.

Part of the business is indeed a restaurant.

KCross · 11-06-2019 04:55PM

Silent Running wrote: »

Part of the business is indeed a restaurant.

That sounds like a no brainer then! Better than any ACA scheme!

Get a couple of them installed!

unkel · 11-06-2019 08:37PM

Free charger is always good. The free ESB charger (paid by the tax payer) was good. The free Tesla destination charger (paid for by a foreign company) is even better

Keep us updated on how you are getting on and what's involved in the process. Some other businesses might benefit from this thread too. Do Tesla always install two chargers, one of which can only be used by Teslas and the other for other EVs? I presume these are all 7.2kW single phase?

Dardania · 13-06-2019 08:12AM

Very well done on looking at this this.
Bear in mind your site electrical capacity e.g. your Maximum Import Capacity, and if you have headroom to accommodate the load of a charger. If not, you'll need an increase from ESB Networks.
Your recent electricity supply bills should give you an idea of your contracted MIC and your max recorded, or you should be able to look at it on your digital meter also.
You would want to power budget for a minimum of a 7kW slow charger, but the expectation from people may be for higher speeds. See the power expectations here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station#Charging_time

And as you go higher in the power delivery stakes towards DC, the amount of equipment you need to provide increases on your side

n97 mini · 13-06-2019 09:15AM

Bear in mind the Tesla charger is a tethered Type-2. At a guess the Leaf 24 and 30 make up well over half the EV fleet at the moment. They're Type-1 so Teslas are of no use to them.

zg3409 · 13-06-2019 07:28PM

A waterproof outdoor socket is an option. It charges at about 1/3 the rate of a typical wall charger.

For tesla I think you can say customers only, you can always bar local freeloaders from your property.

A non Tesla charger would be better for more vehicle types, also non tethered is better as no trailing cables which can get damaged. Outlets can be mounted to a wall, they don't need a special pole. If you are creative you could get one for 1000 euro and take it from your tax bill.

Tesla supply the box, it is up to you to get it wired up. First Tesla charger is set to only charge teslas, so takes up a dedicated space 24/7, second charger can be set to charge about 50% of EVs.

Here is Tesla application:
https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/charging-partners

List of existing sites here:
https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/findus/list/chargers/Ireland

Shefwedfan · 13-06-2019 08:41PM

I am not sure what the benefit at the moment to free chargers are to business?

Depending on your location, of course if you are beside a motorway with nothing around it would make sense as people can pull in, have a drink and some food while they charge and head off

In a town/city, your wasting your time, people will pull up, plug in and head off....blocking the charge point for a customer who does arrive....

It means to bar local freeloaders? how exactly are you supposed to do that? have a bouncer standing outside all day at the charge point?

You would be better putting in a charge point with a nominal fee, Nigel Daly has a charger which you stick in a euro for an hour and if still parked it will release the cable on charger side, so someone else can pull in and off they go. If a restaurant and people intent to stay for an hour then better

Free charging doesn't work, too many freeloaders in Ireland....just look at the disaster e-cars is....even Nissan setting up free charge points and coming back to them broke into s**t

n97 mini · 13-06-2019 09:13PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not sure what the benefit at the moment to free chargers are to business?

Depending on your location, of course if you are beside a motorway with nothing around it would make sense as people can pull in, have a drink and some food while they charge and head off

In a town/city, your wasting your time, people will pull up, plug in and head off....blocking the charge point for a customer who does arrive....

It means to bar local freeloaders? how exactly are you supposed to do that? have a bouncer standing outside all day at the charge point?

You would be better putting in a charge point with a nominal fee, Nigel Daly has a charger which you stick in a euro for an hour and if still parked it will release the cable on charger side, so someone else can pull in and off they go. If a restaurant and people intent to stay for an hour then better

Free charging doesn't work, too many freeloaders in Ireland....just look at the disaster e-cars is....even Nissan setting up free charge points and coming back to them broke into s**t

Works for hotels though. I've opted for certain hotels as they have charging facilities. Having said that the first had a charger that never worked according to staff, so I haven't gone back. The other one has a 3 pin socket beside one of the underground parking spaces so I stay there regularly instead. Both are in the same town.

Shefwedfan · 13-06-2019 09:17PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Works for hotels though. I've opted for certain hotels as they have charging facilities. Having said that the first had a charger that never worked according to staff, so I haven't gone back. The other one has a 3 pin socket beside one of the underground parking spaces so I stay there regularly instead. Both are in the same town.

Most of those hotels have paid parking. So they are making money off you already. The ones in Dublin anyway.

So if someone plugs in and goes off for the day, they don't give a sh*t because the cost of a few units is a lot cheaper than what you are paying for the parking

unkel · 13-06-2019 09:21PM

I've never heard of paid parking for a guest at any hotel in Ireland. That said, I have never stayed in a Dublin hotel and had my car with me.

Shefwedfan · 13-06-2019 09:25PM

unkel wrote: »

I've never heard of paid parking for a guest at any hotel in Ireland. That said, I have never stayed in a Dublin hotel and had my car with me.

If you are staying in hotel then potentially it will be free but I have paid for parking in hotels before even when staying.....Belfast and Cork, Galway I think as well

I am talking more about chargers in hotel that you will drop into for lunch, meetings etc....Clayton in Leopardstown is the one that comes to mind, has Tesla charge points and was hotel Tesla used for test drives before they opened office.....you can park up and charge now during day but you will pay for parking

SteM · 13-06-2019 09:36PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not sure what the benefit at the moment to free chargers are to business?

Depending on your location, of course if you are beside a motorway with nothing around it would make sense as people can pull in, have a drink and some food while they charge and head off

In a town/city, your wasting your time, people will pull up, plug in and head off....blocking the charge point for a customer who does arrive....

It means to bar local freeloaders? how exactly are you supposed to do that? have a bouncer standing outside all day at the charge point?

You would be better putting in a charge point with a nominal fee, Nigel Daly has a charger which you stick in a euro for an hour and if still parked it will release the cable on charger side, so someone else can pull in and off they go. If a restaurant and people intent to stay for an hour then better

Free charging doesn't work, too many freeloaders in Ireland....just look at the disaster e-cars is....even Nissan setting up free charge points and coming back to them broke into s**t

The zappi can be set with a code for charging. Maybe set up the charger with a note saying the code is available at reception. It might stop the freeloaders from just pulling up and using it. Change the code on a weekly basis, only takes a minute to change.

listermint · 13-06-2019 09:40PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you are staying in hotel then potentially it will be free but I have paid for parking in hotels before even when staying.....Belfast and Cork, Galway I think as well

I am talking more about chargers in hotel that you will drop into for lunch, meetings etc....Clayton in Leopardstown is the one that comes to mind, has Tesla charge points and was hotel Tesla used for test drives before they opened office.....you can park up and charge now during day but you will pay for parking

It's a great idea for b and bs and small cafes dotted around the country tbh.
Puts you over the competition. Anything that does that is worth it.

n97 mini · 13-06-2019 09:55PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Most of those hotels have paid parking. So they are making money off you already. The ones in Dublin anyway.

So if someone plugs in and goes off for the day, they don't give a sh*t because the cost of a few units is a lot cheaper than what you are paying for the parking

Like unkel I've never stayed in a Dublin hotel, nor have I paid for parking at one.

But, if you're going to pay for parking, the same applies. Parking plus free charging or parking with no charging... Which would you prefer.

Shefwedfan · 13-06-2019 10:02PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Like unkel I've never stayed in a Dublin hotel, nor have I paid for parking at one.

But, if you're going to pay for parking, the same applies. Parking plus free charging or parking with no charging... Which would you prefer.

That wasn’t the question by the OP so not really relevant

If you want to keep the freeloaders off the system then the zappi as suggested above or a paid system would work

Black_Knight · 13-06-2019 10:05PM

KCross wrote: »

Fact, although I think what you buy needs to cost €1k+. Anything below that doesnt qualify.
https://www.seai.ie/energy-in-business/accelerated-capital-allowance/

Just so I can get this straight in my primitive brain. Install a charger for over €1000, and the business can right that €1000 of against tax over the first year?

My parents have a B&B so 1. It'd be a benefit to their business, but 2. I'd get a fast charger at their house.

Shefwedfan · 13-06-2019 10:05PM

listermint wrote: »

It's a great idea for b and bs and small cafes dotted around the country tbh.
Puts you over the competition. Anything that does that is worth it.

B&B etc it’s great idea and more are doing it but that’s different to the OP question....as I said if in middle of no where and people are not going to park up for day to head off shopping then free could attract customer but in towns /cities expect freeloaders and plenty of them

Black_Knight · 13-06-2019 10:14PM

listermint wrote: »

It's a great idea for b and bs and small cafes dotted around the country tbh.
Puts you over the competition. Anything that does that is worth it.

A B&B/hotel with an external plug is pretty appealing to me as an EV owner. I'm staying overnight anyways, if my car charges in 3 hours vs 10 hours it kinda makes little/no difference to me since i'll be asleep.

Only difference would be if I was checking in, getting an hours charge while I get settle in and change or whatever, and then head away in the car. A quick charger in that instance would be handy (I've a wedding coming up where i'll be driving a bit of a distance to get to my overnight stay. If I could check in, charge up, and then continue on to the church and back that'd be ideal).

Silent Running · 14-06-2019 06:39AM

Hi Guys, thanks for all the responses.

The business isn't mine, I only wish it was! It belongs to a friend of my wife. He knows that I'm into this stuff so he asked for advice and information. The location is far enough away from the city to avoid people parking and going shopping. Most people would drive there and do their business there. It's a very green business and EV charging fits right in.

There isn't enough parking to dedicate a space for Teslas. It's enough that he will dedicate a spot or two to EV charging. It's a very busy place outside of the winter months.

Mupchease · 14-06-2019 07:59AM

Jack whites on the way to Wexford would be a great spot for some chargers

ELM327 · 14-06-2019 08:25AM

Mupchease wrote: »

Jack whites on the way to Wexford would be a great spot for some chargers

The M11 corridor is well served with Coynes Cross, Bray, 2 at Gorey and the new Ionity site too.

Although perhaps a destination charger there would be

Shefwedfan · 14-06-2019 08:29AM

Silent Running wrote: »

Hi Guys, thanks for all the responses.

The business isn't mine, I only wish it was! It belongs to a friend of my wife. He knows that I'm into this stuff so he asked for advice and information. The location is far enough away from the city to avoid people parking and going shopping. Most people would drive there and do their business there. It's a very green business and EV charging fits right in.

There isn't enough parking to dedicate a space for Teslas. It's enough that he will dedicate a spot or two to EV charging. It's a very busy place outside of the winter months.

Tesla will be a limited market, you need to hit a large section

I would go with standard 2 port slow charger with someone like Nigel Daly or any of those companies

A Euro per hour or 50 cent per hour would be acceptable as well for people to charge

Mupchease · 14-06-2019 09:45AM

ELM327 wrote: »

The M11 corridor is well served with Coynes Cross, Bray, 2 at Gorey and the new Ionity site too.

Although perhaps a destination charger there would be

Sorry yeah I should have said for some destination chargers. That stretch looks like it will be the best served in the country when the two Gorey IONITY sites open.

Black_Knight · 14-06-2019 12:34PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

A Euro per hour or 50 cent per hour would be acceptable as well for people to charge

It's almost too little an amount to ask for.
If the charger install is ultimately free, and for the hour or maybe 2 they're on prem, what's it going to cost the proprietor? €2? If the customers are guaranteed to be spending money in the business while they charge, it could be left as free, or even just leave it up to the customer whether they pay or not. A "donations" box beside the charger port.

Shefwedfan · 14-06-2019 01:09PM

Black_Knight wrote: »

It's almost too little an amount to ask for.
If the charger install is ultimately free, and for the hour or maybe 2 they're on prem, what's it going to cost the proprietor? €2? If the customers are guaranteed to be spending money in the business while they charge, it could be left as free, or even just leave it up to the customer whether they pay or not. A "donations" box beside the charger port.

It's fairly easy, stick a poster beside the charger saying any cost for charger will be taken off your bill in store/restaurant......

Or donate all funds to local GAA club/charity and have sticker to indicate on charger

Installing a charger for customer use

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