Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

20Cent · 08-08-2019 08:54PM

Terrible stories coming out of Mississippi. Hundreds of people dragged away from factories by ICE agents because they don't have the right papers on them. Kids coming home from school to find parents gone.

Beasty · 08-08-2019 08:58PM

My understanding is this thread is about "left-wing" extremists in the US. Please do not cloud the issues by bringing in extremism or other situations from a completely different part of the political spectrum. They have been discussed separately and I am sure will continue to be discussed in other threads

Any questions, please PM me - do not respond to this warning in-thread

Thanks

20Cent · 08-08-2019 08:59PM

Ok so.
There are no left wing extremists in the US.

/thread.

Danzy · 08-08-2019 09:00PM

20Cent wrote: »

Terrible stories coming out of Mississippi. Hundreds of people dragged away from factories by ICE agents because they don't have the right papers on them. Kids coming home from school to find parents gone.

You do PR work for scab Labour as well?

Ironicname · 08-08-2019 09:10PM

20Cent wrote:

Terrible stories coming out of Mississippi. Hundreds of people dragged away from factories by ICE agents because they don't have the right papers on them. Kids coming home from school to find parents gone.

Could that also be written or read as hundreds of criminals arrested for being illegal?

lawlolawl · 08-08-2019 09:18PM

20Cent wrote: »

Terrible stories coming out of Mississippi. Hundreds of people dragged away from factories by ICE agents because they don't have the right papers on them. Kids coming home from school to find parents gone.

This wouldn't have happened if they were legal immigrants.

Why should we feel any sympathy for criminals?

Ironicname · 08-08-2019 09:30PM

lawlolawl wrote:

Why should we feel any sympathy for criminals?

Because if you think that American border patrol shouldn't tolerate illegal immigrants, you are racist.

Shocking

20Cent · 08-08-2019 09:34PM

Well armed police raiding factories, the brown people are carted away until they can prove they are legal. Over half those arrested were totally legal but didn't have their papers on them so were released later on. Suppose they were just "following orders".
Antifa are needed now more than ever to fight against this fascism.

Ironicname · 09-08-2019 02:58AM

20Cent wrote:

Well armed police raiding factories, the brown people are carted away until they can prove they are legal. Over half those arrested were totally legal but didn't have their papers on them so were released later on. Suppose they were just "following orders". Antifa are needed now more than ever to fight against this fascism.

In your mind, poorly armed police should knock on a factory door and ask the workers, (who happen to be brown), if they happen to be legal and just take their word they are legal even though almost half aren't?

Fascists if they don't.

Ironicname · 09-08-2019 03:05AM

And fight this fascism?

Should people who break the law not be arrested? Or should they get a pass if they are "brown people" like you were at pains to mention?

If this is why you support antifa or why antifa are needed, then I'm glad I oppose them.

Danzy · 09-08-2019 07:56AM

Ironicname wrote: »

In your mind, poorly armed police should knock on a factory door and ask the workers, (who happen to be brown), if they happen to be legal and just take their word they are legal even though almost half aren't?

Fascists if they don't.

If it means that Labour can be got cheaply, then yes he does.

20Cent · 09-08-2019 09:33AM

Should people carry their papers with them at all times now?
Have them ready for the paramilitary police.

Going to the shops while brown could result in a trip to jail.

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 09:40AM

20Cent wrote: »

Should people carry their papers with them at all times now?
Have them ready for the paramilitary police.

Going to the shops while brown could result in a trip to jail.

Papiere, bitte

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 09:50AM

20Cent wrote: »

Should people carry their papers with them at all times now?
Have them ready for the paramilitary police.

Going to the shops while brown could result in a trip to jail.

Half of the staff were illegal, once their identities were confirmed those working legally were released. Its not beyond the pale to hold someone until their ID can be confirmed in an operation of this type. You're blowing it out of proportion. The Irish lad being deported is white, how did that happen ?

Chris_Heilong · 09-08-2019 09:58AM

The company should get a huge fine for employing illegals, The poor children are the victims here and hopefully can be sent to relatives in the US or Mexico or put into foster care.

But back on topic, Antifa can do jack to change the law of the land and as we have established (and in before this thread gets locked for going off topic) they are a bunch of nutty far left anarchist who use violence to intimidate people they disagree with and are convinced regardless of the undeniable evidence to the contrary that they are the good guys.

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 10:04AM

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

The company should get a huge fine for employing illegals, The poor children are the victims here and hopefully can be sent to relatives in the US or Mexico or put into foster care.

But back on topic, Antifa can do jack to change the law of the land and as we have established (and in before this thread gets locked for going off topic) they are a bunch of nutty far left anarchist who use violence to intimidate people they disagree with and are convinced regardless of the undeniable evidence to the contrary that they are the good guys.

as opposed to the people they are opposed to who use mass murder to intimidate people they disagree with and are convinced regardless of the undeniable evidence to the contrary that they are the good guys.

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 10:05AM

SexBobomb wrote: »

Half of the staff were illegal, once their identities were confirmed those working legally were released. Its not beyond the pale to hold someone until their ID can be confirmed in an operation of this type. You're blowing it out of proportion. The Irish lad being deported is white, how did that happen ?

so you owuld have no problem being locked up until you can prove that you are a citizen?

BloodBath · 09-08-2019 10:12AM

20Cent wrote: »

Well armed police raiding factories, the brown people are carted away until they can prove they are legal. Over half those arrested were totally legal but didn't have their papers on them so were released later on. Suppose they were just "following orders".
Antifa are needed now more than ever to fight against this fascism.

And the other half weren't? They obviously got a tip off of illegals working there. These kinds of raids happen in most countries where illegal immigration is a problem. I don't see anything fascist about it. How do you expect anybody to take you seriously when you come out with crap like this?

When everybody is a fascist, nobody is. You antifa types obviously never heard of the story about the boy who cried wolf. Do you cry at the police if they stop you for a random breathalyser test and want to see your papers, tax, insurance and drivers license. Damn those fascists!

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 10:18AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you owuld have no problem being locked up until you can prove that you are a citizen?

Thats how it works in every country if there is a factory with a big number of illegal workers, all workers have to be held until ID is confirmed. "Locked up" infers that they were all sent to a prison or something they weren't they were detained as in detained at the scene until their ID is confirmed-

"Hours later, all the kids had been reunited with family members"

Those working illegally were transported to immigrant detention centres, not jails or prisons.

"Eighteen juveniles were found working at the plants,.. Nine were released and not taken for processing, Miles said. One was 14 years old" - I guess child labour is cool with you now as well.

All quotes are from CNN

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 10:20AM

SexBobomb wrote: »

Thats how it works in every country if there is a factory with a big number of illegal workers, all workers have to be held until ID is confirmed. "Locked up" infers that they were all sent to a prison or something they weren't they were detained as in detained at the scene until their ID is confirmed-

"Hours later, all the kids had been reunited with family members"

Those working illegally were transported to immigrant detention centres, not jails or prisons.

"Eighteen juveniles were found working at the plants,.. Nine were released and not taken for processing, Miles said. One was 14 years old" - I guess child labour is cool with you now as well.

All quotes are from CNN

i dont suppose you can link to those quotes? not that i think you would take them out of context or anything.

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 10:24AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

i dont suppose you can link to those quotes? not that i think you would take them out of context or anything.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/08/us/mississippi-immigration-raids-children/index.html

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 10:33AM

SexBobomb wrote: »

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/08/us/mississippi-immigration-raids-children/index.html

Well that was an interesting selection of quotes you picked. context really is everything. The people who were arrested on wednesday were not released until thursday afternoon. the "hours later" refers to hours later after thursday morning before the kids could be reunited with their parents. so people who were working legally were detained for a full day and separated from their children. and somehow you dont see an issue with that.

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 10:40AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well that was an interesting selection of quotes you picked. context really is everything. The people who were arrested on wednesday were not released until thursday afternoon. the "hours later" refers to hours later after thursday morning before the kids could be reunited with their parents. so people who were working legally were detained for a full day and separated from their children. and somehow you don't see an issue with that.

That wasn't intentional, but fine they were all reunited the next day. Whats does that change really? They all had to be processed through the system.
Also from that piece: "Each case, depends on the individual circumstance. A parent being apprehended ... happens throughout law enforcement," he said. "You go out to any jurisdiction, state, local or otherwise, and they make an arrest of somebody, and that individual is a parent, that individual is going to go to jail, and that child's going to be left alone or with a family member." Having a child doesn't make you above the law.

What about the other points raised ?

SexBobomb wrote: »

Thats how it works in every country if there is a factory with a big number of illegal workers, all workers have to be held until ID is confirmed.

And most importantly

SexBobomb wrote: »

"Eighteen juveniles were found working at the plants,.. Nine were released and not taken for processing, Miles said. One was 14 years old" - I guess child labour is cool with you now as well.

20Cent · 09-08-2019 10:42AM

Guilty till proven innocent, thought it was supposed to be the other way around.

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 10:43AM

SexBobomb wrote: »

That wasn't intentional, but fine they were all reunited the next day. Whats does that change really? They all had to be processed through the system.
Also from that piece: "Each case, depends on the individual circumstance. A parent being apprehended ... happens throughout law enforcement," he said. "You go out to any jurisdiction, state, local or otherwise, and they make an arrest of somebody, and that individual is a parent, that individual is going to go to jail, and that child's going to be left alone or with a family member." Having a child doesn't make you above the law.

What about the other points raised ?

And most importantly

so you would not feel aggrieved at all if everybody in your workplace was arrested and detained until they could prove they were citizens? I'd be ****ing furious.

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 10:44AM

20Cent wrote: »

Guilty till proven innocent, thought it was supposed to be the other way around.

that was my understanding as well. Not so in america it seems when it comes to ICE.

Brian? · 09-08-2019 10:44AM

20Cent wrote: »

Should people carry their papers with them at all times now?
Have them ready for the paramilitary police.

Going to the shops while brown could result in a trip to jail.

It's been tested in the Scotus and found to be unconstitutional for local law enforcement to ask to see papers. The law was struck down when I was living in Az, which meant I could stop carrying my passport and visa everywhere. Not that a cop ever asked me for it, I'm not brown enough.

I'm absolutely shocked ICE can do this based on that ruling.

Brian? · 09-08-2019 10:48AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you would not feel aggrieved at all if everybody in your workplace was arrested and detained until they could prove they were citizens? I'd be ****ing furious.

Furious is too small a word for how I'd feel.

Can someone answer this here, do ICE have special powers to detain over and above normal law enforcement? The police can't arrest you without probable cause, why can ICE arrest you without it?

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 10:49AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you would not feel aggrieved at all if everybody in your workplace was arrested and detained until they could prove they were citizens? I'd be ****ing furious.

If half my workplace was illegal workers and some were child workers and there was an immigration raid I would expect to be checked. I'd be furious at my employer for operating in such a way and putting me in that position.
I really don't understand your position here ? Do you feel aggrieved if you get pulled over for a random breathalyser checkpoint, sure, is it fascism ? Some perspective is needed.

20Cent · 09-08-2019 10:57AM

SexBobomb wrote: »

If half my workplace was illegal workers and some were child workers and there was an immigration raid I would expect to be checked. I'd be furious at my employer for operating in such a way and putting me in that position.
I really don't understand your position here ? Do you feel aggrieved if you get pulled over for a random breathalyser checkpoint, sure, is it fascism ? Some perspective is needed.

How would you know your work colleagues immigration status? Ask them for their papers as well?
If you get pulled over for a breathalyser test the cop has to prove you are over the limit. They don't handcuff you and make you prove you haven't been drinking.

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 11:04AM

20Cent wrote: »

How would you know your work colleagues immigration status? Ask them for their papers as well?
If you get pulled over for a breathalyser test the cop has to prove you are over the limit. They don't handcuff you and make you prove you haven't been drinking.

I'm not an immigration officer, why would I know? Not my business either. Half of this US workplace was, obviously they were acting on good information.
Yes the garda will detain me on the roadside to test me (check immigration status) If Im over (not working legally) I'm arrested, having kids doesn't factor into it.

Obviously It would have been better to process these people faster but we don't know what the method is and it is a large number of people.

I see you still haven't responded to the point of the kids working there as well.

BloodBath · 09-08-2019 11:29AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you would not feel aggrieved at all if everybody in your workplace was arrested and detained until they could prove they were citizens? I'd be ****ing furious.

Context matters surely?

When nearly half the place is illegal immigrant labour and child labour then yes it's ok for them to detain you for processing.

Blame the employer.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 09-08-2019 11:32AM

Brian? wrote: »

Furious is too small a word for how I'd feel.

Can someone answer this here, do ICE have special powers to detain over and above normal law enforcement? The police can't arrest you without probable cause, why can ICE arrest you without it?

That's not what happened here though is it?

I'd agree with you that you shouldn't just be walking down the street and potentially be detained because you can't prove there and then you re a citizen/there legally.

But this is not that. It was a Company employing a large number of people illegally, and supposedly employing child labour. How is it that those claiming to be on the left will defend such happenings!?

Il Fascista · 09-08-2019 11:33AM

Am I getting this right? Anti capitalists are now defending unethical capitalism? The world is truly upside down.

Brian? · 09-08-2019 11:41AM

Il Fascista wrote: »

Am I getting this right? Anti capitalists are now defending unethical capitalism? The world is truly upside down.

No. I want the owner of the business punished and have no problem with people working illegally being detained and deported. I’m furious for the people there legally who were detained.

As an immigrant, or a “Expat” cause I’m white, I find this kind of thing worrying. I’ve been a legal immigrant in 3 countries now, including the US, so maybe I’m a little more sensitive to this than most. The idea I could spend a night in jail because I didn’t have my papers is horrifying.

Have you ever spent a night in jail? I haven’t and hope it stays that way.

20Cent · 09-08-2019 11:41AM

Il Fascista wrote: »

Am I getting this right? Anti capitalists are now defending unethical capitalism? The world is truly upside down.

Not really.
It's the rounding people up demanding their papers people have a problem with.
The freedom brigade seem ok with it though.

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 11:45AM

20Cent wrote: »

Not really.
It's the rounding people up demanding their papers people have a problem with.
The freedom brigade seem ok with it though.

I know, you want the freedom to use child labour whats their problem ?

20Cent · 09-08-2019 11:55AM

SexBobomb wrote: »

I know, you want the freedom to use child labour whats their problem ?

Sounds like a really s1tty company.
They have been sued for not paying proper wages.
Owners are GOP contributors of course.

Child labour is wrong of course, making this out like ICE were there to "save" these children is disingenuous. They didn't care about the kids coming home from school to ne parents or in the street crying looking for them.

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 12:00PM

20Cent wrote: »

Sounds like a really s1tty company.
They have been sued for not paying proper wages.
Owners are GOP contributors of course.

Child labour is wrong of course, making this out like ICE were there to "save" these children is disingenuous. They didn't care about the kids coming home from school to ne parents or in the street crying looking for them.

were any of the owners similarly detained? i'm guessing not.

Overheal · 09-08-2019 12:36PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you owuld have no problem being locked up until you can prove that you are a citizen?

That happened to a kid a few weeks ago, he spent 5 weeks in CBP custody and became emaciated

20Cent · 09-08-2019 12:50PM

A guy was sent to Iraq. He'd never been and couldn't speak the language.
Died because he couldn't get insulin.

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 01:10PM

20Cent wrote: »

A guy was sent to Iraq. He'd never been and couldn't speak the language.
Died because he couldn't get insulin.

Thats awful, but I don't see what that has to do with antifa

ohnonotgmail · 09-08-2019 01:11PM

SexBobomb wrote: »

Thats awful, but I don't see what that has to do with antifa

It is very relevant to the discussion on the activities of ICE that you yourself were involved in an hour ago.

SexBobomb · 09-08-2019 02:14PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is very relevant to the discussion on the activities of ICE that you yourself were involved in an hour ago.

I know, I was there.. there has been a load of side discussions as some posters are desperate to get off the thread topic of antifa

20Cent · 09-08-2019 02:33PM

SexBobomb wrote: »

I know, I was there.. there has been a load of side discussions as some posters are desperate to get off the thread topic of antifa

Not much to say about antifa really. Tiny group, no organised. Just counter protesting far right, fascist and racist groups.
If there were no far right group's there would be no antifa.

notobtuse · 09-08-2019 03:36PM

The Portland, OR mayor and his police department has been taken to the back of the woodshed by public opinion over the failures of the police to stop the violence that Antifa was involved in at prior events. The mayor is now promising a heavy response to any violence at the August 17 protests that will once again pit the Proud Boys against Antifa. City leaders have received information that some people are coming to spread hate and start fights and have talked about carrying weapons. The mayor has empowered and directed the Portland Police Bureau to use whatever means necessary and amass whatever resources necessary to uphold the law. The mayor is now seeking help from other law enforcement agencies across the region to build a large coalition of police and promising to push prosecutors to make sure people who do break the law face criminal charges. Rose City Antifa (Portland’s chapter), on their website, are targeting specific right wing organizers and supporters of the Proud Boy’s protest… Joe Biggs, Joey Gibson, Jered Gavin Bonneau, Shane Kohfield, Tara LaRosa, and Andrew Allwander, complete with profiles and pictures. What can go wrong? It will be interesting to see if Antifa’s violent ways are neutered at the event, and if the Proud Boys will respond, as promised, with violence for any physical attacks by Antifa upon them.

Brian? · 09-08-2019 03:39PM

notobtuse wrote: »

The Portland, OR mayor and his police department has been taken to the back of the woodshed by public opinion over the failures of the police to stop the violence that Antifa was involved in at prior events. The mayor is now promising a heavy response to any violence at the August 17 protests that will once again pit the Proud Boys against Antifa. City leaders have received information that some people are coming to spread hate and start fights and have talked about carrying weapons. The mayor has empowered and directed the Portland Police Bureau to use whatever means necessary and amass whatever resources necessary to uphold the law. The mayor is now seeking help from other law enforcement agencies across the region to build a large coalition of police and promising to push prosecutors to make sure people who do break the law face criminal charges. Rose City Antifa (Portland’s chapter), on their website, are targeting specific right wing organizers and supporters of the Proud Boy’s protest… Joe Biggs, Joey Gibson, Jered Gavin Bonneau, Shane Kohfield, Tara LaRosa, and Andrew Allwander, complete with profiles and pictures. What can go wrong? It will be interesting to see if Antifa’s violent ways are neutered at the event, and if the Proud Boys will respond, as promised, with violence for any physical attacks by Antifa upon them.

I’m still waiting on proof that the mayor directed the police to go easy on Antifa. It seems to actually be the opposite now.

I think I might have to give up and let you keep repeating the lie.

notobtuse · 09-08-2019 03:50PM

Brian? wrote: »

I’m still waiting on proof that the mayor directed the police to go easy on Antifa. It seems to actually be the opposite now.

I think I might have to give up and let you keep repeating the lie.

Bad public opinion sure has a way of changing things, eh? The Portland mayor has historically been assigned to the Police Bureau as the police commissioner. If the Portland police department did nothing about Antifa's violence until well after the fact, who’s responsibility is it?

Brian? · 09-08-2019 04:00PM

notobtuse wrote: »

Bad public opinion sure has a way of changing things, eh? The Portland mayor has historically been assigned to the Police Bureau as the police commissioner. If the Portland police department did nothing about Antifa's violence until well after the fact, who’s responsibility is it?

So it’s pure conjecture? Thanks for admitting it.

20Cent · 09-08-2019 04:05PM

notobtuse wrote: »

The Portland, OR mayor and his police department has been taken to the back of the woodshed by public opinion over the failures of the police to stop the violence that Antifa was involved in at prior events. The mayor is now promising a heavy response to any violence at the August 17 protests that will once again pit the Proud Boys against Antifa. City leaders have received information that some people are coming to spread hate and start fights and have talked about carrying weapons. The mayor has empowered and directed the Portland Police Bureau to use whatever means necessary and amass whatever resources necessary to uphold the law. The mayor is now seeking help from other law enforcement agencies across the region to build a large coalition of police and promising to push prosecutors to make sure people who do break the law face criminal charges. Rose City Antifa (Portland’s chapter), on their website, are targeting specific right wing organizers and supporters of the Proud Boy’s protest… Joe Biggs, Joey Gibson, Jered Gavin Bonneau, Shane Kohfield, Tara LaRosa, and Andrew Allwander, complete with profiles and pictures. What can go wrong? It will be interesting to see if Antifa’s violent ways are neutered at the event, and if the Proud Boys will respond, as promised, with violence for any physical attacks by Antifa upon them.

Why are the proud boys marching anyway?
What do they want?

Antifa [Mod Warning on post #1 - updated 08/08/19]

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