Non socialised puppy

CurranBun · 02-03-2020 9:49pm #1

Hi everyone, looking for some advice.
We adopted a 14 week old puppy a few days ago. She is so beautiful.
She was never socialised before. And the <snip> (where we got her) advised that she has never really had any human contact before.
She is with us now 3 days and wont move from her crate.
She hides away if she hears us coming etc. Very very shy. Wont play and wont come for a pet or cuddle, will move away from us.
Just looking for some advise on how to bring her put of her shell comfortably.
Is there any training tips or advise?
Thanks

SnowyMuckish · 02-03-2020 9:59pm

Watch Caesar Milan its good.

The most important thing is not to force it, our dog was repeatedly grabbed by an in-law who just wanted to pet him as a pup, now if he sees anyone coming to pet him other than trusted family and friends he cowers.

Spend time just sitting quietly next to the open crate, (side by side rather than facing directly, dogs see being stared at as a threat) with no agenda to pet her, just be there calmly and quietly. Have food treats by your side if she emerges, take it very slowly.

mymo · 02-03-2020 10:02pm

Did the rescue give you any advice?
Maybe try hand feeding, no meals in bowls, even if you just leave one bit at a time just outside crate and move back a little.
Hot dog sausage or the polish sausage in lidl are great, smelly treats to coax a dog out. Don't make sudden moves, talk to pup even when it's hiding, quite calm voice. Hopefully she'll start coming out of the crate, move further away with food as she gains confidence.
Is she toileting outside?
Also consider consulting a behaviourist, not trainer, qualified behaviourist will give you tips to build confidence.

Bannasidhe · 02-03-2020 10:16pm

SnowyMuckish wrote: »

Watch Caesar Milan its good.

The most important thing is not to force it, our dog was repeatedly grabbed by an in-law who just wanted to pet him as a pup, now if he sees anyone coming to pet him other than trusted family and friends he cowers.

Spend time just sitting quietly next to the open crate, (side by side rather than facing directly, dogs see being stared at as a threat) with no agenda to pet her, just be there calmly and quietly. Have food treats by your side if she emerges, take it very slowly.

Apart from the Caeser Milan part and his outdated notions about "alpha" - I wouldn't advise anyone to watch him! - I agree with this.

Don't rush it. It's all very strange, scary and new to a very young dog.
Be calm, almost ignore them, give treats with a casual air.
3 days is really no time at all OP.
Realistically you are looking at about 3 weeks - one of my rescues took a month before she didn't cower in fear every time anyone came near her.
Now 6 years later she is a total cuddle monster.

Some good tips here: https://dogtime.com/advocacy/35621-tips-decompressing-new-rescue-dog

cocker5 · 02-03-2020 11:03pm

Def stay away from ceaser Milan.. he’s alpha male approach is outdated and not applicable

We recently adopted a 15 month ish old springer similar issues.. my advice leave her be .. let her go at her own pace once she’s not terrified she will come out and interact on her own terms if you force it you run the risk of ‘flooding’ which is counterproductive

Drop into the crate some nice treats .. not normal dog treats but super nice ones .. small cubes of cheese .. frankfurters, small bits of slices of ham

Give her some dog teddies etc for comfort

Try and avoid direct eye contact for now, speak softly and don’t make any sudden moves you need to slowly desensitise her - it will come with time and patience

Personally I wouldnt sit near her crate yet it’s too much too soon go about ur normal life and in a nice way ignore her

Well done on taking on this little pet x give her space and she’ll be fine x

Please bear in mind 3 days is nothing .. we have our guy 8 weeks on Friday and he’s still coming out of his shell ... little by little but they are so worth it x

frillyleaf · 03-03-2020 10:57am

SnowyMuckish wrote: »

Watch Caesar Milan its good.

The most important thing is not to force it, our dog was repeatedly grabbed by an in-law who just wanted to pet him as a pup, now if he sees anyone coming to pet him other than trusted family and friends he cowers.

Spend time just sitting quietly next to the open crate, (side by side rather than facing directly, dogs see being stared at as a threat) with no agenda to pet her, just be there calmly and quietly. Have food treats by your side if she emerges, take it very slowly.

Do not watch or do anything Cesar Milan recommends.

CurranBun · 03-03-2020 11:38am

Thank you all so much for the advise, it gives me some comfort.
My concern now is that i have 2 little kids (3&5) who are obsessed with her and insist on sitting beside her at every given moment.
I may learn to train them too to leave her be :-)
We are also booking puppy training school which starts later this month, would it be too soon for her?

cocker5 · 03-03-2020 12:01pm

CurranBun wrote: »

Thank you all so much for the advise, it gives me some comfort.
My concern now is that i have 2 little kids (3&5) who are obsessed with her and insist on sitting beside her at every given moment.
I may learn to train them too to leave her be :-)
We are also booking puppy training school which starts later this month, would it be too soon for her?

Too much too soon OP... this is flooding the dog

I know you don't mean to but you will send her backwards... honestly id remove the kids from sitting by her side for her safety and for theirs ... a frightened dog CAN be pushed to the limit... and a non aggressive dog can eventually be pushed to snap out of fear ... nothing more.

all of you need to give her some SPACE... little or no interaction... drop the odd treat into the cage and tell her she's a good girl.. or let the kinds throw in a treat etc... but don't crowd her (sitting near her right now is crowding her)...

general puppy classes at this stage of her being soo timid wont help... later yes a few months down the line will be great for all of you but not at this point. Have you consider a 1:1 with a behaviourist?

we had one out from Wonder Paws 2 weeks ago to help us with Cooper and it made a massive difference?

JustAThought · 03-03-2020 12:54pm

definately dont be wasting your money on a so called behaviourist many if not most of whom are expensive unqualified unverifiable charletans who try to bluster and bully you out of your money. s.. Get yourself a puppies for dummies book from Amazon and go from there -in the meantime lots of space for the little puppy and tell the kids and supervise them staying away while it gets used to its new home and surroundings -it is not a toy. Make sure it has a safe quiet covered space of itsown ( crate with toys and bed) that it can retreat to, and plenty of encouragement and positive experiences.

CurranBun · 03-03-2020 2:05pm

Thanks Guys, will try all of the above, hard as the kids are so young, so will probably have to bribe them with treats lol.
Will ensure Sally is left alone as much as possible and try make some progress.
Genuinely appreciate the tips.

tk123 · 03-03-2020 3:47pm

JustAThought wrote: »

definately dont be wasting your money on a so called behaviourist many if not most of whom are expensive unqualified unverifiable charletans who try to bluster and bully you out of your money. s.. .

This is not the experience I've had personally - have you actually used an APDT behaviourist to base your claims on?!

OP check apdt.ie for a behaviourist in your area - they are all qualified and vastly experienced and will save you and the pup lots of time and effort - especially when you have kids involved. I'd let the behaviourist decide if the pup is up to puppy classes.. I took my friend to puppy hour a couple of years ago in Positive Dog Training and it was really well done - they had 2 areas - one for more confident puppies and a smaller area for ones that were a bit shy.. My friend's pup was afraid to go through the doorway (her house is open plan so she didn't realise!) and the guys had my friend go ahead and call the pup to her rather than let my friend carry her, another pup who didn't like to be touched/have a collar on they tried loads of different harnesses on it until they found one it was comfortable in and gave the owner homework etc etc just little things like that set it apart from puppy classes I'd been to in the past.

Graces7 · 03-03-2020 5:32pm

cocker5 wrote: »

Too much too soon OP... this is flooding the dog

I know you don't mean to but you will send her backwards... honestly id remove the kids from sitting by her side for her safety and for theirs ... a frightened dog CAN be pushed to the limit... and a non aggressive dog can eventually be pushed to snap out of fear ... nothing more.

all of you need to give her some SPACE... little or no interaction... drop the odd treat into the cage and tell her she's a good girl.. or let the kinds throw in a treat etc... but don't crowd her (sitting near her right now is crowding her)...

general puppy classes at this stage of her being soo timid wont help... later yes a few months down the line will be great for all of you but not at this point. Have you consider a 1:1 with a behaviourist?

we had one out from Wonder Paws 2 weeks ago to help us with Cooper and it made a massive difference?

Reminds me of when I was breeding Siamese. I would give an info sheet out with the kittens.. " Let the kitten come to you; provide a safe warm bolt hole and leave food and water within reach. "

frillyleaf · 03-03-2020 9:18pm

JustAThought wrote: »

definately dont be wasting your money on a so called behaviourist many if not most of whom are expensive unqualified unverifiable charletans who try to bluster and bully you out of your money. s.. Get yourself a puppies for dummies book from Amazon and go from there -in the meantime lots of space for the little puppy and tell the kids and supervise them staying away while it gets used to its new home and surroundings -it is not a toy. Make sure it has a safe quiet covered space of itsown ( crate with toys and bed) that it can retreat to, and plenty of encouragement and positive experiences.

Very poor advice in my opinion. A behaviourist or qualified trainer would help this lady a lot and be able to give good advice on how to help her dog adjust.

On top of that they could help her understand the importance how the children interact with the dog so they all have a positive experience.

frillyleaf · 03-03-2020 9:29pm

CurranBun wrote: »

Thank you all so much for the advise, it gives me some comfort.
My concern now is that i have 2 little kids (3&5) who are obsessed with her and insist on sitting beside her at every given moment.
I may learn to train them too to leave her be :-)
We are also booking puppy training school which starts later this month, would it be too soon for her?

That is great they like her but they need to learn how to understand when an animal needs to be left alone.

Children can’t read body language and don’t understand warning signals dogs give them when they want space eg trying to move away, growing etc. In fact a lot of children under five think a dog growling and showing its teeth is a dog smiling, which of this means “I’m scared and I need some but you are not giving it to me!! ”

Children should be taught to not disturb a sleeping dog and not disturb a dog that is eating.

The dog should have a space that it can go to and be left alone eg crate. I know this is hard for kids but this why we as adults have to supervise them at all times around animals. If the dog needs to be left alone get kids to draw a picture for it and eventually they’ll be able to prepare food etc for it.

These are the sort of things a good trainer / behaviourist will be able to help you with if the classes are too much. Call whoever you are doing classes with and ask their opinion if they think you need to give her more time

kylith · 03-03-2020 10:06pm

Op, do you know if the pup has had socialisation with other dogs? If so it may be possible to have a visit from a calm older dog who would be able to teach the pup that humans aren’t so scary.

notAMember · 07-09-2021 9:09am

I'm a little surprised to hear a rescue gave a family with such small children a dog. We were not considered for adoption until my youngest was 6. For the reasons you've experienced already really, that they can want to love the pup so much they overwhelm it.

What breed is the dog OP? Some may never become cuddly dogs. We have a collie, who is a brilliant dog, but isn't the type of dog that enjoys cuddles, she prefers playing chasing and with Frisbees and balls.

Our pup was 16 weeks when we got her also, and she hid for a week before she got the confidence to start approaching us. It took a lot of ignoring her for the trust to start. very small amounts of time. We kept the noise down, dogs ears are very sensitive. We let her come to us.

DBB · 07-09-2021 10:54am

Posts deleted that had revived this old thread, but which were created just to promote the poster's own websites.

HerrKapitan · 07-09-2021 11:02am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857381#Comment_117857381

Was it Cesar Milan?

DBB · 07-09-2021 6:28pm

Not even HE can figure out how to use this new site 😂

muddypaws · 08-09-2021 9:48am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117859662#Comment_117859662

Definitely post of the day, possibly year

hamburgham · 12-09-2021 11:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/112711611#Comment_112711611

+100% regarding “behaviourists”. Never a truer word spoken. Total chancers.

muddypaws · 13-09-2021 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117882911#Comment_117882911

Go on then I'll bite. How is someone that has studied and qualified a chancer?

apache · 14-09-2021 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117857432#Comment_117857432

Genuine question. What is so wrong about Cesar Milan?

VonVix · 14-09-2021 6:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890442#Comment_117890442

Imagine a TV show about plumbing, the presenter claims to be an "expert plumber", he has a really outgoing personality, confident in his craft, presents the show really well. You don't know anything about plumbing. You see Mr. Expert Plumber quickly fix leaks by bonking his wrench off a pipe, showing the house owner "look, it's fixed", the clip shows the once leaky pipe is no longer leaking. People who watch the show and know nothing about plumbing think "wow, he fixed that really quickly! I could do the same!"

In reality, qualified plumbers watch the show and lose their minds. You don't fix a leak by bonking your wrench of a pipe and hoping for the best. You need to find the reason for the leak and seal the leak correctly. It's not glamorous, it's not a quick fix, but it'll work and last for a long time. Bonking your wrench off the pipe is a dangerous and unreliable fix.

Cesar Milan gives people a very unrealistic view of what dog training and behaviour modification is. He is not qualified in what he claims to be. He has taught so many people how to damage their dogs because people think by watching his show, they know how to change a dogs behaviour. His show is edited to appear as if he "fixes" dogs quickly. Dog training doesn't work like that. His claims of you needing to be "the alpha" and speaking about "pack behaviour" is outdated and incorrect.

apache · 14-09-2021 6:28pm

I don't think people think he fixes the problems that quick. His shows are edited like you said and people know this.

Not a very good analogy comparing him to a plumber.

I wonder is Jackson the cat man like this on 'My cat from Hell'?

Nody · 14-09-2021 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117890442#Comment_117890442

That he's a clueless moron who's idea of dealing with problem would be the same as hitting a child every time it screams. His method is not only outdated such as the "alpha male" which was taken from a 30s idea of wolves in captivity from multiple different packs and the author of it has even come out and said it's not true (and the whole concept of it has been debunked with wolves as well). Yet he's still claiming the need to be an alpha male to show the dog who's the boss (hint, the dog has no clue what you're doing). In short he's a TV personality who's not actually trained nor have actual up to date knowledge (well up to date in this case being a couple of decades old...) who keep spreading lies that will traumatize dogs; or put in another word he's a dangerous fraud spreading lies.

Cherry Blossom · 14-09-2021 11:04pm

Ok you don’t like the plumber analogy, here’s another.

At the start of the summer I decided to do a basic photography course as a pastime starting in September. I bought a decent beginners dslr and went out all summer taking pictures of scenery on auto mode with the intention of doing the same next year so I can compare shots from the two years and see how I improved. I took thousands of photos and some by pure fluke were actually ok. (Or appear so to my untrained eye) I shared some of these on social media. Two people since May have asked me to do Wedding photos based on a few photos I took of scenery. I can only surmise that these people are nuts and know even less about photography than I do. I had my first actual class this evening. Even if I did it for free the thought of everything that could go wrong actually makes me break out in a sweat. If I were more arrogant about my skills in photography I might charge these people a small fortune and do sub par work with my sub par skills. That’s what Ceaser Milan is, an arrogant novice with no formal training.

sillysmiles · 15-09-2021 2:26pm

Now that this thread has been resurrected - @CurranBun how did your puppy get on?

thedogcare · 23-11-2021 6:50am

<snip>

Thank you for copying and pasting random stuff from Google about shock collars to try to troll users of this forum.

Away with you now.

Thanks,

DBB

Esel · 23-11-2021 7:23am

...

Non socialised puppy

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