Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

fritzelly · 20-04-2020 08:42PM

hmmm wrote: »

It'd be interesting to see (for every country), number of recorded overall deaths in the first 3 months of 2020 versus the previous average.

Be very surprised if there isn't some egregious numbers for countries "doing well"

Beasty · 20-04-2020 08:42PM

Michael Dwyer wrote: »

I wouldn't mind 'teaching' you a few home truths in real life.

The trends aren't. One day of lower cases doesn't make a trend. Deaths have averaged around 40 a day for the last 10 days.

You have no trends, you have no heart, you have nothing. One thing you have is the luck I'm not facing you at this moment in time.

Threadbanned

Wombatman · 20-04-2020 08:42PM

coastwatch wrote: »

Thanks, I listened back to to it and I think your figures are correct and make more sense. I think the way it was said it sounded like LTRC was 406 and Nursing Homes was 337, but it would make sense that the nursing homes are included in the LTRC total.
I'll correct the post.

The seem to be making a distinction between LTRCs and Nursing homes and are not lumping them together as LTRCs.

From today's statement....

Dr. Tony Holohan, Chief Medical Officer, Department of Health, said:

"Nursing homes and long-term residential facilities are a testing priority.
“In facilities with an existing cluster, all residents and staff are to be tested. In the event of a facility reporting its first case, testing of all staff and residents will take place.
“This sector remains a priority for NPHET, along with other vulnerable persons, and we will continue to implement supports and guidance on infection prevention control where required.”

Dr Kathleen Mac Lellan, Assistant Secretary Department of Health and Chair of NPHET Vulnerable People Subgroup, said:

"There are 18 COVID-19 response teams across the country, each one led by senior nursing support, assisting nursing homes and long-term residential facilities. These teams have senior clinical expertise, infection prevention and control and public health input in preventing and managing clusters.”

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b02c86-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-20-a/

Longing · 20-04-2020 08:42PM

In the last 20 days 616 people have died in the month of April from Covid-19.

March : 71 people died.

Hope with cases dropping deaths will fall to after the lag phase.

patnor1011 · 20-04-2020 08:44PM

bettyoleary wrote: »

There has to be a way to isolate those that test positive and the facilities to provide these people with the appropriate care if not requiring hospital. Of those that become more seriously ill , if they are strong enough and have a chance of making it through they should be taken to hospital. They say this is happening but I don't know.

Sadly there is not a way short of arresting them but that is a double edged sword so let us not even go there.
Quite a lot of people who test positive do not have any symptoms and they do not think they have to stay at home.

bettyoleary · 20-04-2020 08:46PM

Upforthematch wrote: »

Thanks for your tables they are really informative.

I have just filtered them for today's figures for ROI and NI.

Very difficult to get a 'real' picture of what is going on.

Looking at daily changes looks pointless to me given the tardiness of reporting.

That leaves the cumulative of 3 main stats

Cumul. Number of COVID Cases (lagging indicator)
Problem: Depends on the number of tests - totally skewed and useless figure in my view.

Cumul. Number of COVID ICU (leading indicator)
Problem: Doesn't include Nursing Home Residents not being transferred to ICU.
However, Good stat for community transmission.

Cumul. Number of Deaths (lagging indicator)
Problem: Different countries are not counting all their deaths or counting them differently.
However, assuming the country is consistent in how it records a death - good stat for post-analysis against a fixed benchmark.

One thing we are missing is a good leading indicator for nursing homes - I assume that's why they have decided they must now test all nursing home staff and residents. More's the pity more nursing home staff can't 'live in' and cocoon with the residents.

They can though. They have in the UK in some places. There are people who would move in to nursing homes if they didn't have family commitments and some training if they wernt already qualified.

moonage · 20-04-2020 08:48PM

In normal times about 85 people a day die in Ireland, about a quarter of these in nursing/care homes.

That would, in normal times, be a total of about 4,250 over 50 days.

Does anyone know the total number of deaths over the last 50 days? I suspect it won't be as high as the hysterical, scaremongering media would lead us to believe.

Upforthematch · 20-04-2020 08:49PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

687 is an awful lot? While every death is personal tragedy to someone, numbers tell a different story.
About 30,000 people die in ireland every year (last 5 years average)
That make it approximately 82 people a day or 2500 a month.
Since it is nearly end of month 4, about 10,000 people died since start of the year out of which 687 people died died from covid related complication on top of their other health problems.

It's not relevant whether the person had other health complications. Full stop.

The goal is to prevent someone from dying from COVID.

Do the figures indicate success in the aim to minimise the number of COVID deaths? That is the question.

It is totally misleading to compare 10000 deaths (your figure) in 4 months with the 684 (of 687) COVID deaths which have taken place mostly in 1 month. In fact we only had 3 deaths on 20/3/2020 - one month ago today.

If we take your figure of 2500 a month and compare that to 687 COVID deaths I think it presents a very different and sad picture.

growleaves · 20-04-2020 08:49PM

hmmm wrote: »

It'd be interesting to see (for every country), number of recorded overall deaths in the first 3 months of 2020 versus the previous average.

Here are weekly deaths all ages for the USA. Graph of weekly US deaths (taken from CDC data) was created by economist Siddhartha Sanghi.

lockdown.png?resize=768%2C555&ssl=1

BanditLuke · 20-04-2020 08:49PM

Worst yet to come.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/4/20/21228226/who-head-warns-worst-of-virus-is-still-ahead-coronavirus-covid-19-stay-at-home-orderes

20-04-2020 08:50PM

What did the government decide today about quarantine for incoming travelers? I understand that there was a meeting about it this afternoon. I've a good friend, an Irish national, returning home tomorrow. She is sensible and will self isolate and get food delivered, but it prompted me to wonder what the actual process is. I assume that address is collected upon arrival. I can't find any evidence online if a decision having been made on this.

Don't really watch the news any more and only check in here periodically, so probably missed it. That's no good can come of immersion in this ****e every day

political analyst · 20-04-2020 08:51PM

If the research carried out by the team led by Dr Rosalyn Moran at King's College in London proves correct - that there will be several waves of infection before herd immunity is achieved - then the stay-at-home policy is futile because the economy has to return to business as usual at some point or else there won't be enough money to have a functional health service.

hmmm · 20-04-2020 08:51PM

growleaves wrote: »

Here are weekly deaths all ages for the USA. Graph of weekly US deaths (taken from CDC data) was created by economist Siddhartha Sanghi.

heh that's brilliant, I didn't consider that the lockdown itself might lower the overall death rate (e.g. fewer car accidents). Statistics, eh.

patnor1011 · 20-04-2020 08:51PM

moonage wrote: »

In normal times about 85 people a day die in Ireland, about a quarter of these in nursing/care homes.

That would, in normal times, be a total of about 4,250 over 50 days.

Does anyone know the total number of deaths over the last 50 days? I suspect it won't be as high as the hysterical, scaremongering media would lead us to believe.

Congrats.
You found a red pill.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-04-2020 08:52PM

growleaves wrote: »

Here are weekly deaths all ages for the USA. Graph of weekly US deaths (taken from CDC data) was created by economist Siddhartha Sanghi.

Of course overall deaths are going to be down.

Less people out and about, less accidents, less traffic accidents, less crime, less murders etc etc

fritzelly · 20-04-2020 08:54PM

BanditLuke wrote: »

Worst yet to come.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/coronavirus/2020/4/20/21228226/who-head-warns-worst-of-virus-is-still-ahead-coronavirus-covid-19-stay-at-home-orderes

WTF is that supposed to mean - says something like that and doesn't explain his reasoning. Need to get rid of that guy and put Dr Ryan in charge

bettyoleary · 20-04-2020 08:55PM

Wombatman wrote: »

The seem to be making a distinction between LTRCs and Nursing homes and are not lumping them together as LTRCs.

From today's statement....

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/b02c86-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-20-a/

That is the most positive post this evening.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-04-2020 08:56PM

fritzelly wrote: »

WTF is that supposed to mean - says something like that and doesn't explain his reasoning. Need to get rid of that guy and put Dr Ryan in charge

It's only the lock downs that have restricted spread.

It's inevitable what happens if you lift the lock downs in the absence of a vaccine.

A study in Vo, Italy which was near the epicenter of their outbreak found that transmission was restricted by over 90% (!) due to the measures taken there.

https://www.livescience.com/small-italian-town-cuts-coronavirus-cases-testing.html

hmmm · 20-04-2020 08:56PM

fritzelly wrote: »

WTF is that supposed to mean - says something like that and doesn't explain his reasoning.

I suspect like a lot of comms from the WHO it's about trying to prevent complacency. Lots of people now think this is it, and we go back to normal, when it's really round 1 of who knows how many.

fritzelly · 20-04-2020 08:57PM

hmmm wrote: »

I suspect like a lot of comms from the WHO it's about trying to prevent complacency. Lots of people now think this is it, and we go back to normal, when it's really round 1 of who knows how many.

Then why not say that - have his Chinese overlords been whispering in his ear

embraer170 · 20-04-2020 08:57PM

FluffyTowel wrote: »

Hi. So, my worst fears have happened and my dad is in hospital with Covid. I live in Germany. He isn’t is great health generally, and I’m so worried that I can’t think. What can I do? Can I go back? Will I have to isolate? He’s in hospital in Ireland. I don’t have so many details as it’s only his wife who I have contact with and she is not responding at the moment.

How old is he?
Try to have a good conversation with the doctor treating him. I have the impression that is always helps if medical staff know there are family around who genuinely care about the outcomes.

Hope it works out.

Rob A. Bank · 20-04-2020 08:58PM

AR-200419872.jpg?ts=1587382387&maxw=1000

The middle guy seems to be prominent here !

hmmm · 20-04-2020 08:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What did the government decide today about quarantine for incoming travelers? I understand that there was a meeting about it this afternoon.

NPHET is meeting tomorrow, maybe that's the meeting you are referring to? Can't see any decisions of this nature being taken without their advice.

timmy_mallet · 20-04-2020 09:00PM

fritzelly wrote: »

WTF is that supposed to mean - says something like that and doesn't explain his reasoning. Need to get rid of that guy and put Dr Ryan in charge

Reading between the lines - I said something crazy to scare you, but I can be your saviour, if you just let me. Please continue to keep me relevant. Yours, the bloke that messed up and is, er, hoping to now save his skin, xoxox.

hmmm · 20-04-2020 09:00PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Then why not say that - have his Chinese overlords been whispering in his ear

The press conferences last an hour usually, any I've listened to this point has been made repeatedly by himself and Ryan.

The media only picks up soundbites.

hmmm · 20-04-2020 09:01PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The middle guy seems to be prominent here !

Very simplistic, presumably it's been dumbed down for the audience. Which left-wing publication is this from?

timmy_mallet · 20-04-2020 09:04PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's only the lock downs that have restricted spread.

It's inevitable what happens if you lift the lock downs in the absence of a vaccine.

A study in Vo, Italy which was near the epicenter of their outbreak found that transmission was restricted by over 90% (!) due to the measures taken there.

https://www.livescience.com/small-italian-town-cuts-coronavirus-cases-testing.html

I think it's inevitable here that the only true way to stop the virus is to weld hospital and nursing home doors shut, once you go in, no coming out. Three weeks is all it will take.

patnor1011 · 20-04-2020 09:04PM

Upforthematch wrote: »

It's not relevant whether the person had other health complications. Full stop.

The goal is to prevent someone from dying from COVID.

Do the figures indicate success in the aim to minimise the number of COVID deaths? That is the question.

It is totally misleading to compare 10000 deaths (your figure) in 4 months with the 684 (of 687) COVID deaths which have taken place mostly in 1 month. In fact we only had 3 deaths on 20/3/2020 - one month ago today.

If we take your figure of 2500 a month and compare that to 687 COVID deaths I think it presents a very different and sad picture.

Doctors disagree. It is a very relevant if you do have other underlying health issues compared with healthy people. Hence the difference with people on ICU vs people with little to none symptoms.

You fail to realize simple fact that there is no way to stop this virus. It is out and it is going to stay. It will be around surviving in non symtomatic carriers, mutating and killing people. MERS and SARS were here before and killed a lot of people yet to this day there is no vaccine or treatment. Corona viruses are different from influenza, not to mention that even with plethora of different flu vaccines people still die from it.
We can not wish it away.
Whole approach is strange in my opinion, we are locking up whole population instead of trying to directly protect those who are immuno and health compromised.

gabeeg · 20-04-2020 09:07PM

fritzelly wrote: »

WTF is that supposed to mean - says something like that and doesn't explain his reasoning. Need to get rid of that guy and put Dr Ryan in charge

I agree it's vague as ****

I'd take it to mean we've seen it play out in mostly rich western countries who can cope to a degree, and soon we're going to witness what happens when it rips through developing countries that don't have our infrastructure and wealth.

joe_99 · 20-04-2020 09:09PM

amadangomor wrote: »

Used to like this thread.

It really has gone to **** with the moaners who have an agenda. Who instead of discussing the facts twist them.

The level of comprehension of some people who post here is shockingingly low.

Couldn't agree more. Negatively and spin everywhere on this thread now.

Beasty · 20-04-2020 09:10PM

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

I assumed you knew I was speaking in binary and not integers.

Have a good life my limited friend.

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

U ok hun?

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

Wot about the pubs opening on 5 May. I seen on what app.

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

bulgaria have it alrdy .seen on Facebook.

Sober Crappy Chemis wrote: »

86 thousand i seen on viber

As you seem incapable of posting in a constructive manner do not post in this thread again

joe_99 · 20-04-2020 09:13PM

hmmm wrote: »

Interesting antibody test results from Los Angeles.
http://createsend.com/t/j-296D9D8CE54262BB2540EF23F30FEDED

"Based on results of the first round of testing, the research team estimates that approximately 4.1% of the county’s adult population has antibody to the virus. Adjusting this estimate for statistical margin of error implies about 2.8% to 5.6% of the county’s adult population has antibody to the virus— which translates to approximately 221,000 to 442,000 adults in the county who have had the infection. That estimate is 28 to 55 times higher than the 7,994 confirmed cases of COVID-19 reported to the county by the time of the study in early April. The number of COVID-related deaths in the county has now surpassed 600."

Promising

frillyleaf · 20-04-2020 09:14PM

political analyst wrote: »

If the research carried out by the team led by Dr Rosalyn Moran at King's College in London proves correct - that there will be several waves of infection before herd immunity is achieved - then the stay-at-home policy is futile because the economy has to return to business as usual at some point or else there won't be enough money to have a functional health service.

I think it’s more to prepare the health system to deal with it so that the economy can open up again

Akabusi · 20-04-2020 09:14PM

It's clear that we are on top of this thing for the general population. All the data points to that. Yes the nursing homes are a mess and we have to accept that it is going to have a dreadful toll on any homes it has gotten into.
As cruel as it sounds whatever happens in the nursing homes has to be set aside from what is happening in the general population. My thoughts are with the staff and residents and RIP to all who have passed.
Also forget about comparing us to other countries it is a pointless exercise.

Rob A. Bank · 20-04-2020 09:15PM

hmmm wrote: »

Very simplistic, presumably it's been dumbed down for the audience. Which left-wing publication is this from?

That well known American Marxist/Lenninist newspaper.

https://durangoherald.com/

tobefrank321 · 20-04-2020 09:18PM

trapp wrote: »

You haven't a clue really do you.

For a start the 77 reported deaths today occurred on various days over a period of time.

It has been repeated by the experts, of which you are not, many times that the death rate is falling.

Go and find your tinfoil my poor friend.

77 deaths and your response is to talk about tinfoil hats?

Deaths in every country are from different days. It doesn't matter what day they come from.

Its either 77 today or they've been under reporting by a number of deaths for days. So the day they announced 44 deaths may in fact have been 54 deaths.

The death rate is not falling. Per 1 million its rising.

As for experts, the experts havw been clear. No vaccine for at least 12 months and more likely 18 months and 8-9 waves up to then.

You're just one of the usual head in the sand merchants who are completely clueless about this.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-04-2020 09:18PM

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The middle guy seems to be prominent here !

https://twitter.com/TheGlare_TM/status/1242524564011257857

A few Ann Coulter types around? :P

tobefrank321 · 20-04-2020 09:19PM

trapp wrote: »

You haven't a clue really do you.

For a start the 77 reported deaths today occurred on various days over a period of time.

It has been repeated by the experts, of which you are not, many times that the death rate is falling.

Go and find your tinfoil my poor friend.

77 deaths and your response is to talk about tinfoil hats?

Deaths in every country are from different days. It doesn't matter what day they come from.

Its either 77 today or they've been under reporting by a number of deaths for days. So the day they announced 44 deaths may in fact have been 54 deaths.

The death rate is not falling. Per 1 million its rising.

As for experts, the experts have been clear. No vaccine for at least 12 months and more likely 18 months. And 8-9 waves up to then.

You're just one of the usual head in the sand merchants who are completely clueless about this.

Upforthematch · 20-04-2020 09:19PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

Originally Posted by Upforthematch wrote:

It's not relevant whether the person had other health complications. Full stop.

The goal is to prevent someone from dying from COVID.

Do the figures indicate success in the aim to minimise the number of COVID deaths? That is the question.

It is totally misleading to compare 10000 deaths (your figure) in 4 months with the 684 (of 687) COVID deaths which have taken place mostly in 1 month. In fact we only had 3 deaths on 20/3/2020 - one month ago today.

If we take your figure of 2500 a month and compare that to 687 COVID deaths I think it presents a very different and sad picture.

Doctors disagree. It is a very relevant if you do have other underlying health issues compared with healthy people. Hence the difference with people on ICU vs people with little to none symptoms.

You fail to realize simple fact that there is no way to stop this virus. It is out and it is going to stay. It will be around surviving in non symtomatic carriers, mutating and killing people. MERS and SARS were here before and killed a lot of people yet to this day there is no vaccine or treatment. Corona viruses are different from influenza, not to mention that even with plethora of different flu vaccines people still die from it.
We can not wish it away.
Whole approach is strange in my opinion, we are locking up whole population instead of trying to directly protect those who are immuno and health compromised.

This is like you were answering someone else's post.

None of what you have said actually relates to what I commented day one - that 687 COVID deaths seems a lot.

From a public health perspective or even basic empathy, it is just wrong to dismiss a COVID death because the person had another underlying condition.

Your tone is like "they died - so what?"

Just Saying · 20-04-2020 09:25PM

Wombatman wrote: »

88% is correct. 605 of our 687 deaths are made up of care and nursing home residents. They may have moved from their care setting to hospital, where they could have passed away. I don't think suspected cases (not-lab confirmed) are included in our death figure yet.

Many people believe the falling ICU and hospital numbers indicate we are going in the right direction. Most nursing home patients will never see a hospital, let alone ICU.

I think the focus needs to move away from the hospital setting to care homes. Doctors and nurses should be reassigned from hospitals to care homes. Every care home resident should be tested. The number of positives will tell us where we are at.

I must admit I have found some of the data regarding residential care setting and nursing homes quite confusing.

However it is clear from the Hospitalization/ICU data (which is backed up by the low hospital deaths figure) that the lockdown has been very successful in suppressing the virus in the general public.I couldn't agree more that most of our resources should be moved away from the acute hospital settings to the care settings.This seems to have started and I think we will see a dramatic improvement in figures by next week.
While it is very sad that the death rates in the care settings are high from the perspective of managing to control the spread of the virus I would be far more concerned if the figures showed that the vast majority of the deaths were in the community as this would mean the spread was out of control.

DevilsHaircut · 20-04-2020 09:28PM

Tweet from Tony Holohan @CMOIreland with the graph that was shown at the briefing today, allocating the 77 deaths to the days they occurred.

Red = likely to rise due to lag in reporting.

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1252344273938219011

Upforthematch · 20-04-2020 09:30PM

Just Saying wrote: »

I must admit I have found some of the data regarding residential care setting and nursing homes quite confusing.

However it is clear from the Hospitalization/ICU data (which is backed up by the low hospital deaths figure) that the lockdown has been very successful in suppressing the virus in the general public.I couldn't agree more that most of our resources should be moved away from the acute hospital settings to the care settings.This seems to have started and I think we will see a dramatic improvement in figures by next week.
While it is very sad that the death rates in the care settings are high from the perspective of managing to control the spread of the virus I would be far more concerned if the figures showed that the vast majority of the deaths were in the community as this would mean the spread was out of control.

If the community deaths were higher, the care home deaths would have been through the roof long go.

I'm curious, which figures will we see a dramatic improvement in next week? I'm just so sceptical about the reporting I would love to see a concrete prediction that is actually possible to 'falsify' next week.

Edit: In fact I'm going to make my own prediction.

We have had 687 deaths in the past month RIP.

If by 20/05/20 we have less than another 687 deaths (new total =1374 deaths) - I will consider this progress.

patnor1011 · 20-04-2020 09:31PM

Upforthematch wrote: »

This is like you were answering someone else's post.

None of what you have said actually relates to what I commented day one - that 687 COVID deaths seems a lot.

From a public health perspective or even basic empathy, it is just wrong to dismiss a COVID death because the person had another underlying condition.

Your tone is like "they died - so what?"

It is covid related death. Not covid death. Certainly not all 687.
I did not dismissed anything I have stated that every death is a personal tragedy but let us not mix up feelings with a facts.
Fact is that absolute majority of recorded covid related deaths happened to people with underlying medical complications.

No, it was not my tone. It was your subjective interpretation of what I wrote. You are entitled to your own opinion as is everyone else.

marilynrr · 20-04-2020 09:33PM

Upforthematch wrote: »

It's not relevant whether the person had other health complications. Full stop.
.

Of course it's relevant.
I read that in Italy the flu season in winter was particularly mild because of the warmer weather so less people died than usual, which therefore meant there was a larger pool of vulnerable people.
Of the people who died from covid-19 in Italy for example I don't know how many would have been expected to die this year anyway statistically but the numbers will be crunched afterwards and they will work out how many extra people lost their lives due to covid-19.

If we say that underlying issues don't matter and say that covid-19 caused all of the deaths (and that all of those people would still be alive if it wasn't for covid-19) then that is not factually correct, it would look like covid-19 caused x amount of people to die, but yet in those few months there were far less deaths from cancer or other age related illnesses. That would show some kind of progress in health care for other health issues if the figures were used in that way!!

easypazz · 20-04-2020 09:34PM

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Tweet from Tony Holohan @CMOIreland with the graph that was shown at the briefing today, allocating the 77 deaths to the days they occurred.

Red = likely to rise due to lag in reporting.

https://twitter.com/CMOIreland/status/1252344273938219011

Further confirmation that the trends are going in the right direction.

joe_99 · 20-04-2020 09:35PM

This graph shows the trend is positive. If it was going in the other direction we'd be in a much worse position.

Incorrect reading of it?

Panrich · 20-04-2020 09:35PM

Is Philly going to give us a tune on the saxophone?

DevilsHaircut · 20-04-2020 09:37PM

easypazz wrote: »

Further confirmation that the trends are going in the right direction.

I think it's unlikely that we've reached an actual daily deaths peak, when the red bars are finalised in the coming days.

ZX7R · 20-04-2020 09:38PM

hmmm wrote: »

It'd be interesting to see (for every country), number of recorded overall deaths in the first 3 months of 2020 versus the previous average.

For Ireland go to the central statistic office
It will give a break down of all death for the first quarter of 2019
Example
Deaths. Of respiratory system.
Deaths from cronoic lower respiratory disease 566
Pneumonia 323
316 from other respiratory diseases

Upforthematch · 20-04-2020 09:38PM

patnor1011 wrote: »

It is covid related death. Not covid death. Certainly not all 687.
I did not dismissed anything I have stated that every death is a personal tragedy but let us not mix up feelings with a facts.
Fact is that absolute majority of recorded covid related deaths happened to people with underlying medical complications.

No, it was not my tone. It was your subjective interpretation of what I wrote. You are entitled to your own opinion as is everyone else.

I'm not going to debate the difference between covid related death v covid death, your tone v my interpretation of your tone, whether I'm entitled to an opinion etc... This is fluff.

Agreed about that fact you quoted about the deaths being mostly of people with underlying conditions - it was never in dispute.

If you do want to engage about the point I raised (687 seems like a lot of deaths) - great, otherwise my work is done!

Covid19 Part XVI- 21,983 in ROI (1,339 deaths) 3,881 in NI (404 deaths)(05/05)Read OP

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