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Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*
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You've no basis to say that other then I've criticised essentially one aspect of his presidency. My aim is to not simply have a go at him. I've already stated that it seems he's doing a relatively good job in a broad sense. But again, this harps back to my love in comment. Anyone criticizing Biden is doing so because they are churlish, childish, or to have a go about just because. They can't be coming from a genuine place.
This paragraph is ridiculous, so I'm not even going to bother with it. There is no "love in". Certainly not from me.Yes, he would be labeled anti-semitic, that is a given.
Which is an extremely good reason for him not to shoot his mouth off and play a more intelligent game.But you've touched on the main reason why he won't say anything.. Because it'd be unpopular, and negatively affect him personally. He can still do it, he is choosing not to. Biden criticizing Israel, or coming out against Israel's illegal settlement building, would not be going against American interests in the region, which are far broader. Again, Israel needs America more than America needs Israel.
It's not about being "unpopular". It's about boxing clever. If Biden criticises Israel in a fashion that's considered too much, he'll be doomed and what good would that be?
Just ask Jeremy Corbyn how that works out.His hands aren't tied. What are the 'long term ambitions' that will be so affected by criticising what Israel is currently doing re illegal settlements and policy towards Gaza? If anything, engaging in such criticism would likely improve America's reputation in the ME.
Every American President's hands are tied by their country's interests in the Middle East. They've been that way since they toppled Mossadeq in the 50's. Biden's Presidency will be no different.
At best, he'll wag the finger a little and tell Israel to "de-escalate". But that's all he'll realistically be able to do.0 -
You 'won't bother' because what I have said it's true. I'd about 2 posts in this thread until today yet you think I've waltzed in to moan about Biden for some nefarious reasons.This paragraph is ridiculous, so I'm not even going to bother with it.Which is an extremely good reason for him not to shoot his mouth off and play a more intelligent game.
It's not about being "unpopular". It's about boxing clever. If Biden criticises Israel in a fashion that's considered too much, he'll be doomed and what good would that be?
Just ask Jeremy Corbyn how that works out.
Cornyn did far more than merely criticize aspects of Israeli governmental policy. And it is about his popularity domestically. You even suggested that yourself. We both know the Israeli lobby is extremely influential in America, he doesn't want to upset that lobby as it will negatively affect him domestically. It's got little to do with America's interests in the ME.Every American President's hands are tied by their country's interests in the Middle East. They've been that way since they topped Mossadeq in the 50's. Biden's Presidency will be no different.
At best, he'll wag the finger a little and tell Israel to "de-escalate". But that's all he'll realistically be able to do.
That doesn't answer the question. It's amounts to nothing more than sloganeering. I'll ask again:
What are the 'long term ambitions' that will be so affected by criticising what Israel is currently doing re illegal settlements and policy towards Gaza?
Be specific please.0 -
The US can absolutely dictate terms to Israel if they wanted. To suggest Israel has the upper hand in the relationship, or that the US requires Israel to be its 'hardman' in the area is absurd. America is and has for a longtime been its own Hardman in the area. The main country that the US needs to keep on board in the ME is Saudi Arabia regardless, not Israel.
Bidens hands are not tied. He can do the unpopular thing if he wanted to. He doesn't want to.
Your last comment insinuating my criticism is 'churlish' in a 'juvenile way' is exactly why I described the thread as a biden/Democrat love in. My criticism is not mean-spirited or as a result of me being partisan, but legitimate criticism. What other presidents have done is irrelevant. What matters is what Biden is doing. Yet suggesting as such results in one's opinion being labeled 'juvenile'.
This is the view of almost everyone in Ireland who takes an interest in such matters. But, as often is the case, not only is this received wisdom mistaken, it flies in the face of the evidence.
There may have been a time when the US could exercise ultimate control over Israel but the Israelis were always difficult clients (e.g. the invasion of Lebanon in 1982). What is the situation today i.e. what are the facts as opposed to the pre-conceived notions of the Irish “intelligentsia”?
Firstly, the U.S. was completely blindsided by this crisis. Hamas started firing rockets in retaliation for the Sheikh Jarrah evictions and the Israelis did not hesitate to use overwhelming force in response without any “green light” from the U.S.
Secondly, the U.S. response has been slow and confusing- they didn’t send anyone senior to the Middle East and they blocked the Security Council without having a serious plan of their own.
Thirdly, for the first time, there is a substantial anti-Israel lobby in Congress but they are exclusively Democrats and most Republicans are falling over each other talking tough in support of Israel. Of course, if and when Netanyahu decides to stop shelling Gaza, there will be a stream of Republicans on Fox News explaining his strategic genius in calling for the ceasefire which they had proclaimed the day before was a threat to Israel’s existence.
Fourthly, after much procrastination, Biden talked to Netanyahu about a ceasefire but he was mealy-mouthed, talking about “de-escalation”. Netanyahu said he would “de-escalate” when he had killed as many Hamas fighters as possible (oh, and really sorry about those kids). And yes, of course he knows that guarantees another generation of Hamas recruits.
So, Biden wants a cease-fire but why didn’t he simply force Netanyahu to stop forthwith? He could have threatened to withdraw all American military aid to Israel. But everyone knows that Biden would be impeached within a month if he did (notice how Congress has really streamlined the impeachment business under Trump - the US Presidency will never be the same).
So, Biden is the weakest President in modern history. His left wing are dictating domestic policy and his main ambition for foreign policy is to stay competitive with China. Netanyahu has exposed this weakness for anyone who wants to see. But most Irish commenters will cling to the left wing narrative about “Israel is a puppet of US Imperialism”.
Oh. Did you know that fewer Palestinians died during the Trump Administration than any previous administration? Strange that the Palestinian advocates in Ireland never credit Trump with that achievement!0 -
Cornyn did far more than merely criticize aspects of Israeli governmental policy. And it is about his popularity domestically. You even suggested that yourself. We both know the Israeli lobby is extremely influential in America, he doesn't want to upset that lobby as it will negatively affect him domestically. It's got little to do with America's interests in the ME.
Any criticism of Israel is met with charges of "antisemitism" both from Israel and within America too. It's the most effect tool they have in their arsenal. And Biden's enemies will jump on it in heartbeat as well. Biden will be well aware of that and has acted cleverly. More cleverly than you're willing to give him credit for.That doesn't answer the question. It's amounts to nothing more than sloganeering. I'll ask again:
What are the 'long term ambitions' that will be so affected by criticising what Israel is currently doing re illegal settlements and policy towards Gaza?
Be specific please.
Oil for a start and as Robert Fisk said, nothing happens in that region without it being a factor.
There are also strategic factors that are of great consideration too. The US has been involved in the region for decades. Do you think they're there just for fun?
Also, as already said, Israel serves as America's hard man there and is a future ally in any conflict that may arise. They are willing to do what America will not want to be seen doing, which is why the US continually veto's UN resolutions regarding illegal Israeli settlements. The only nation to do so. America needs Israel "on side", as it were, which is why as a nation she continually turns a blind eye to the Israeli's more egregious actions and supports them militarily to the tune of billions every year. All of that transcends Biden and what he can realistically do with regards Israeli actions in Palestine today.
This kind of thing is Day 1 stuff of Middle Eastern affairs. If you don't know this, you cannot hope to even begin to have a serious discussion on it.0 -
This is the view of almost everyone in Ireland who takes an interest in such matters. But, as often is the case, not only is this received wisdom mistaken, it flies in the face of the evidence.
There may have been a time when the US could exercise ultimate control over Israel but the Israelis were always difficult clients (e.g. the invasion of Lebanon in 1982). What is the situation today i.e. what are the facts as opposed to the pre-conceived notions of the Irish “intelligentsia”?
Firstly, the U.S. was completely blindsided by this crisis. Hamas started firing rockets in retaliation for the Sheikh Jarrah evictions and the Israelis did not hesitate to use overwhelming force in response without any “green light” from the U.S.
Secondly, the U.S. response has been slow and confusing- they didn’t send anyone senior to the Middle East and they blocked the Security Council without having a serious plan of their own.
Thirdly, for the first time, there is a substantial anti-Israel lobby in Congress but they are exclusively Democrats and most Republicans are falling over each other talking tough in support of Israel. Of course, if and when Netanyahu decides to stop shelling Gaza, there will be a stream of Republicans on Fox News explaining his strategic genius in calling for the ceasefire which they had proclaimed the day before was a threat to Israel’s existence.
Fourthly, after much procrastination, Biden talked to Netanyahu about a ceasefire but he was mealy-mouthed, talking about “de-escalation”. Netanyahu said he would “de-escalate” when he had killed as many Hamas fighters as possible (oh, and really sorry about those kids). And yes, of course he knows that guarantees another generation of Hamas recruits.
So, Biden wants a cease-fire but why didn’t he simply force Netanyahu to stop forthwith? He could have threatened to withdraw all American military aid to Israel. But everyone knows that Biden would be impeached within a month if he did (notice how Congress has really streamlined the impeachment business under Trump - the US Presidency will never be the same).
So, Biden is the weakest President in modern history. His left wing are dictating domestic policy and his main ambition for foreign policy is to stay competitive with China. Netanyahu has exposed this weakness for anyone who wants to see. But most Irish commenters will cling to the left wing narrative about “Israel is a puppet of US Imperialism”.
Oh. Did you know that fewer Palestinians died during the Trump Administration than any previous administration? Strange that the Palestinian advocates in Ireland never credit Trump with that achievement!
Whatever about the rest of your post, this hyperbolic comment warrants the printing out of your post, crumpling it up and dropping it into a recycling bin.
You mention Trump in a positive way, so presuming that you don't like Biden because of this and putting that to one side, how much cosying up to Israel did Trump do? Specifically, what did Trump do to ensure Palestinians didn't die?0 -
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Good for Putin. Battle's won!Hande hoche! wrote: »With regards the Nord Stream 2 , can understand the hesitancy regarding sanctions. At 90%+ completion rate it would be difficult to stop.0 -
Any criticism of Israel is met with charges of "antisemitism" both from Israel and within America too. It's the most effect tool they have in their arsenal. And Biden's enemies will jump on it in heartbeat as well. Biden will be well aware of that and has acted cleverly. More cleverly than you're willing to give him credit for.
Taking longer than basically everyone else to call for some sort of calm is not acting cleverly, it shows weakness and unsureness.Oil for a start and as Robert Fisk said, nothing happens in that region without it being a factor.
Yes oil, which is why Saudi Arabia is far more important to America than Israel whose oil reserves rank around 87 in the World. How exactly criticising the building of illegal settlements or illegal settlement by Israel will affect America's ability to obtain oil from the ME maybe only you know.There are also strategic factors that are of great consideration too.
Such as what, you've thrown out oil because Robert Fisk. Is that the best you can come up with?The US has been involved in the region for decades. Do you think they're there just for fun?
Also, as already said, Israel serves as America's hard man there and is a future ally in any conflict that may arise.
Are you for for real! There has been numerous conflicts over the last 30 years that America has been involved in, and Israel has contributed next to nothing in any of them, usually at the insistence of America itself, and with good reason! Israel is not America's hard man, America's it's own hard man. It doesn't need a hard man.They are willing to do what America will not want to be seen doing, which is why the US continually veto's UN resolutions regarding illegal Israeli settlements. The only nation to do so. America needs Israel "on side", as it were, which is why as a nation she continually turns a blind eye to the Israeli's more egregious actions and supports them militarily to the tune of billions every year. All of that transcends Biden and what he can realistically do with regards Israeli actions in Palestine today.
America being afraid to be seen doing certain things! America drops bombs near every week in the ME. If they don't want to be seen to be doing certain things they use special forces to later plausibly deny if required. That's why they exist in the first place.This kind of thing is Day 1 stuff of Middle Eastern affairs. If you don't know this, you cannot hope to even begin to have a serious discussion on it.
And ofcourse you yet again close out with churlish and childish comments, 'day 1 stuff' to suggest you are some sort of expert on Middle Eastern affairs. Give it a rest lad, plenty of us have read Robert Fisk. Doing so doesn't make you super duper knowledgeable.0 -
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This is a merry-go-round of silly nonsense from you.
All you're doing is demonstrating you aren't even equipped with the basics and trying to discuss something that's beyond you.
You're unhappy that Biden didn't shoot his mouth off about Israel. But aren't able to understand why that is and the history his country has had in the area in question. You simply believe "he doesn't want to". You're welcome to that pretty meaningless opinion. The rest of what you've offered is basically "no it isn't", which is neither here nor there.0 -
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This is a merry-go-round of silly nonsense from you.
All you're doing is demonstrating you aren't even equipped with the basics and trying to discuss something that's beyond you.
You're unhappy that Biden didn't shoot his mouth off about Israel. But aren't able to understand why that is and the history his country has had in the area in question. You simply believe "he doesn't want to". You're welcome to that pretty meaningless opinion. The rest of what you've offered is basically "no it isn't", which is neither here nor there.
No-one suggest Biden 'shoot' his mouth off, apart from you. Since you haven't suggested any, I'll take it then that you are unable to dream up any other 'strategic factors' that would be so affected by Biden criticising an aspect of Israeli foreign policy. I'll leave you to your love in.0 -
No-one suggest Biden 'shoot' his mouth off, apart from you.
You've said you want him to "For a start, Publicly denounce Israel's continued building of illegal settlements/illegal settling and its unproportional use of force as a response to rocket attacks, and threat to cut military aid if they don't."
That would be shooting his mouth off and it'll end up being the end of Joe Biden one way or another.I'll leave you to your love in.
Aaaaand we're done.0 -
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No-one suggest Biden 'shoot' his mouth off, apart from you. Since you haven't suggested any, I'll take it then that you are unable to dream up any other 'strategic factors' that would be so affected by Biden criticising an aspect of Israeli foreign policy. I'll leave you to your love in.
Do you understand the strategic interest that the US has in continued alliance with Israel? You mention SA and it oil, but Israel is not about oil directly. But it is about access to oil should be need it.
SA is a Muslim state, a dictatorship. It would be crazy for the US to rely solely on them as their only ally in the ME. Israel is seen as 'western democracy'. So for many it is 'one of us' in a area of the world completely different.
US welcome the alliance with SA, but they don't control them. They control Israel. But that control comes at a price. Israeli politicians, like many around the world but with the military might to do it, need to continually prove how dangerous Palestinians are and how they will do whatever is necessary to beat them.
The death of a few civilians is not much of a worry to the US, and if Biden did try to bring it up, Netanyahu would simply ask why the US continues to use drone strikes etc.
It is a small price to pay, mildly uncomfortable at the UN when tensions flair, but a price the deem is worth it.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »Whatever about the rest of your post, this hyperbolic comment warrants the printing out of your post, crumpling it up and dropping it into a recycling bin.
You mention Trump in a positive way, so presuming that you don't like Biden because of this and putting that to one side, how much cosying up to Israel did Trump do? Specifically, what did Trump do to ensure Palestinians didn't die?
A lot of this has been brewing since Trump moved the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Honestly anyone who thinks Trump was firm on Israel by getting them to sign peace deals with countries they weren’t in conflict with is clutching at straws.0 -
everlast75 wrote: »Whatever about the rest of your post, this hyperbolic comment warrants the printing out of your post, crumpling it up and dropping it into a recycling bin.
You mention Trump in a positive way, so presuming that you don't like Biden because of this and putting that to one side, how much cosying up to Israel did Trump do? Specifically, what did Trump do to ensure Palestinians didn't die?
You dismiss my view without the slightest thought because it doesn’t compute with your own worldview. Tell me this: who was the weakest US President and why?
Don’t say Trump who was obviously more assertive than Obama and not a war monger like Bush, though I will completely discombobulate you by saying Trump ultimately weakened the US by throwing his weight around erratically and shooting his mouth off.
What did Trump do which limited the number of Palestinians dying? He got the Sunni Arabs (mainly the Saudis) to focus on the immediate threat I.e. Iran. Israel felt more secure and less inclined to lash out. However I don’t buy the alternative narrative that Biden is emboldening the Iranians (and therefore Hamas) by rejoining the JCPOA. The main driver of the current crisis was Bibi’s inability to create a majority after the recent elections and this fed into the evictions crisis. Whatever else, the current violence excludes the prospect of an Arab Israeli party in government.
Anyhow, my point remains: Biden wants a ceasefire but he cannot control Israel because he can’t withdraw military aid.0 -
A lot of this has been brewing since Trump moved the American Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.
Honestly anyone who thinks Trump was firm on Israel by getting them to sign peace deals with countries they weren’t in conflict with is clutching at straws.
Well, I don't know if Caquas was trying to say that Trump was "firm" with Israel, but indeed it would be delusional to suggest in any way that he was interested in any kind of good outcomes for Palestine, that's for sure.0 -
Do you understand the strategic interest that the US has in continued alliance with Israel? You mention SA and it oil, but Israel is not about oil directly. But it is about access to oil should be need it.
Yes, I am not suggesting that alliance be broken. Doing as I suggested will not end that alliance.SA is a Muslim state, a dictatorship. It would be crazy for the US to rely solely on them as their only ally in the ME. Israel is seen as 'western democracy'. So for many it is 'one of us' in a area of the world completely different.
I am not suggesting they do solely rely on them. But I suggest they are strategically more important.US welcome the alliance with SA, but they don't control them. They control Israel. But that control comes at a price. Israeli politicians, like many around the world but with the military might to do it, need to continually prove how dangerous Palestinians are and how they will do whatever is necessary to beat them.
The death of a few civilians is not much of a worry to the US, and if Biden did try to bring it up, Netanyahu would simply ask why the US continues to use drone strikes etc.
Biden would be bringing up illegal settlements also, however. That is one of the main causes of the strife that exists. It is also illegal as we both know.
It is a small price to pay, mildly uncomfortable at the UN when tensions flair, but a price the deem is worth it.[/QUOTE]
I disagree that Biden publicly coming out against Israel in this regard will somehow end the alliance both countries have. Ofcourse, it would be hugely unpopular domestically, which imo is the reason he won't. It's got little to do with any strategic partnership. That won't end.0 -
You dismiss my view without the slightest thought because it doesn’t compute with your own worldview. Tell me this: who was the weakest US President and why?
Don’t say Trump who was obviously more assertive than Obama and not a war monger like Bush, though I will completely discombobulate you by saying Trump weakened the US by throwing his weight around erratically and shooting his mouth off.
What did Trump do which limited the number of Palestinians dying? He got the Sunni Arabs (mainly the Saudis) to focus on the immediate threat I.e. Iran. Israel felt more secure and less inclined to lash out. However I don’t buy the alternative narrative that Biden is emboldening the Iranians (and therefore Hamas). The main driver of the current crisis was Bibi’s inability to create a majority after the recent elections and this fed into the evictions crisis. Whatever else, the current violence excludes the prospect of an Arab Israeli party in government.
You ask me a question.
You tell me not to use an answer.
Yet you accuse me of being restricted by my own world view?
*slow clap*0 -
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You dismiss my comment, then sardonically refuse to answer my response. Wasting my time.everlast75 wrote: »You ask me a question.
You tell me not to use an answer.
Yet you accuse me of being restricted by my own world view?
*slow clap*0 -
Tell me how wrote: »Haven't you heard?
He doesn't do any press conferences at all, ever, because he is not able to concentrate hard enough to both stand up and read the teleprompter and if anyone asks him a question he suffers a narcoleptic attack and immediately falls asleep which lasts for between 12 and 14 hours.
And he still has a higher satisfaction rating than the last President ever achieved.
Sir, you exaggerate on all claims.
Push polls are great!0 -
Cuomo brothers in hot water
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/cnns-chris-cuomo-participated-in-strategy-calls-with-brother-andrew-about-misconduct-allegations-against-governor/
Waiting for the full throated accusations from Hannity about that which he is already guilty of.0 -
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Haven't seen anything about this on NBC, CBS or the NY Times.
Because it's a WaPo exclusive and it only dropped 100 minutes ago? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/chris-cuomo-andrew-cuomo/2021/05/20/99579382-b7f9-11eb-bb84-6b92dedcd8ed_story.html0 -
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So that article is more about Chris Cuomo than Andrew.
How is a man helping his brother a big deal?
I'm not defending Andrew here, I know nothing about these allegations but I can't see any issue with a brother being involved in helping his sibling.0 -
So that article is more about Chris Cuomo than Andrew.
How is a man helping his brother a big deal?
I'm not defending Andrew here, I know nothing about these allegations but I can't see any issue with a brother being involved in helping his sibling.
It will correctly suggest a lack of impartiality when commenting on (or deciding not to comment on) topical issues relating to a significant public figure.
The mistake was ever having a situation where he was interacting with his brother in a professional sense. I saw some incidents when he did so at the start of Covid and they were slagging each other over visiting their mother and I thought then that wasn't something CNN should be allowing happen.
If he didn't cover stories about his brother, one way or the other, he could reasonably and understandably claim now that of course he was trying to help his brother but that it couldn't affect how he covered him, because he didn't do so. (That's aside from the fact that providing such guidance could be taken by some as saying he was trying to help him avoid any repercussions for his actions, should he have done them etc, etc, etc.)0 -
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Tell me how wrote: »It will correctly suggest a lack of impartiality when commenting on (or deciding not to comment on) topical issues relating to a significant public figure.
The mistake was ever having a situation where he was interacting with his brother in a professional sense. I saw some incidents when he did so at the start of Covid and they were slagging each other over visiting their mother and I thought then that wasn't something CNN should be allowing happen.
If he didn't cover stories about his brother, one way or the other, he could reasonably and understandably claim now that of course he was trying to help his brother but that it couldn't affect how he covered him, because he didn't do so. (That's aside from the fact that providing such guidance could be taken by some as saying he was trying to help him avoid any repercussions for his actions, should he have done them etc, etc, etc.)
It's not appropriate.
That won't stop however Hannity or Carlson nothing off about it while advising trump on p.r.... or international relations0 -
So that article is more about Chris Cuomo than Andrew.
How is a man helping his brother a big deal?
I'm not defending Andrew here, I know nothing about these allegations but I can't see any issue with a brother being involved in helping his sibling.
tldr Chris is a News Anchor and is in a position of implied trust with his audience, and he's made comments before about this scandal that seemed to imply he was staying the hell out of it when clearly he wasn't.
That said, many, many guests of his have in the past year have deflected to Andrew Cuomo on Chris Cumo's show when pressed to defend themselves on his program. The program became politically attached at the hip to Andrew Cuomo (Eg. Ted Cruz smokescreening for the GOP on his show: https://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-cuomo-goes-off-on-ted-cruz-for-criticizing-his-brother-are-you-afraid-of-trump-who-said-your-wife-was-ugly/).
A chronology post-scandal news of how his show responded before this latest development:
https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/cnns-chris-cuomo-skips-andrew-cuomo-controversy-still-finds-time-to-tweet-moral-lectures-at-republicans/
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/chris-cuomo-addresses-brothers-scandal-obviously-i-cannot-cover-it-of-course-cnn-has-to-cover-it/
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnns-chris-cuomo-slammed-for-admitting-he-cannot-cover-his-brothers-scandals-give-me-an-absolute-break/0 -
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everlast75 wrote: »It's not appropriate.
That won't stop however Hannity or Carlson nothing off about it while advising trump on p.r.... or international relations
No doubt. Or this lady and a certain sitting President.
https://twitter.com/JudgeJeanine/status/10218453969838694450
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