Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

Sam Russell · 26-05-2021 10:29am

It is not possible that the Athenry to Tuam railway will be approved within the next decade nor is it likely it will be approved in the following decade. There are too many projects ahead of it. The Greenway is small change compared with it.

It is worth investing in a Greenway for a timescale of a decade because, if it is successful, it can be moved to accommodate the railway, and if it is not, the railway can be reinstated, and all the work done in providing the Greenway is going to make the reinstatement much easier because fencing, vegetation, access points, etc. will make the construction easier.

So, build the Greenway now, and see how it goes.

end of the road · 26-05-2021 11:20am

eastwest wrote: »

Or look at Kilmacthomas in Waterford. Falling apart three tears ago, now flying. And because of the Waterford greenway, the county is now seen as a good fit for tech companies who look for quality of life factors in order to be able to recruit and retain staff.
But try explaining that to a SF/WOT councillor!

tech companies have been in waterford for as long as i can remember.
nothing to do with the greenway.

Decades wrote: »

West on Trackers are like the parish priest, and his ageing and diminishing hareem of apostolics, trying to banish liberalism, or the Bull McCabe beating back the waves screaming "leave him alone".

you are factually incorrect.

Decades wrote: »

Walking, running and cycling, as elements of a quality life, are unstoppable forces. There will be greenways. Each of the greenway campaigns will know their own "special moment" when their particular proposal was cemented and accepted. Pennies drop. It's really just a matter of time. Ridiculously, it won't be Minister Eamon Ryan that delivers (either rail or greenway), but that would be Eamon for you.

walking and running have existed since man existed, and cycling has existed since the first bike was invented, so i'm not sure what your point is, because they certainly aren't new inventions.
there will be some greenways, but going forward it's likely they will you know, actually have to offer something and be shown before hand that they will offer something, before they will get built.
no point in spending money on expensive bike motor ways for the odd local, after all.

Greaney · 31-05-2021 10:57pm

end of the road wrote: »

no point in spending money on expensive bike motor ways for the odd local, after all.

Indeed lovely as the bleak beauty of a bog may be, it does not compare to the Atlantic or Irish sea coastline. A 15 mile cycle through a bog with nary a town to break up the route may sound like a good idea to someone who's going to workout on a Sunday morning, but sounds like a bit of a slog to a pleasure cyclist. There's been criticism by some of the Mullingar cycle route on TripAdvisor like....

'While loving the wide, smooth, level and traffic-free surface, we felt it lacks something. I'm really surprised that more businesses aren't setting up cafes etc along the way.'

'We might visit this greenway again, but maybe with friends as it's otherwise a little boring. '

'.... there are no sheltering facilities (the stretch we did) and no chance to stop and sit down or have a picnic.'

'...Good greenway but a little uninteresting.'

'Scenery is not spectacular but it's the Midlands, what do you expect?

'...it has one major defect! It's so straight and hill-less it's boring so I would suggest a Walkman and ear phones.'

'...not much to see or do.'

'Cons: Bland and uninteresting. No signage whatsoever about the history of the railway or the stations. Nothing at all to inform the traveller - particularly those from abroad. .... Even local businesses seem disinterested. '

Some of the reviews are great, but these little comments would suggest there are better options. I suspect Tuam to Athenry wouldn't be one of them

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g315894-d8747758-Reviews-or10-Old_Rail_Trail-Mullingar_County_Westmeath.html

31-05-2021 11:06pm

Greaney wrote: »

Selective quoting

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g315894-d8747758-Reviews-or10-Old_Rail_Trail-Mullingar_County_Westmeath.html

Thanks for providing a link that shows you took many of those quotes out of context or selectively only quoted portions of reviews

Woodward & Bernstein your writings ain't

Greaney · 31-05-2021 11:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thanks for providing a link that shows you took many of those quotes out of context or selectively only quoted portions of reviews

Woodward & Bernstein your writings ain't

I put in the link to be balanced. I think it's telling that folk, even in the good reviews, talked about the lack of businesses & services along the way. Also, many of the reviews are from folk who give it the thumbs up as a great place to exercise, not big spenders in my experience.

31-05-2021 11:22pm

Spin it whatever way ya want, I've no interest in engaging further with your objective of crapping over other greenways as some kind of argument for something.

end of the road · 31-05-2021 11:55pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Spin it whatever way ya want, I've no interest in engaging further with your objective of crapping over other greenways as some kind of argument for something.

so a cycling advocate posts a link to reviews of a greenway and you're complaining because those reviews don't suit you.

Decades · 01-06-2021 1:12pm

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed lovely as the bleak beauty of a bog may be, it does not compare to the Atlantic or Irish sea coastline. A 15 mile cycle through a bog with nary a town to break up the route may sound like a good idea to someone who's going to workout on a Sunday morning, but sounds like a bit of a slog to a pleasure cyclist.

Some of the reviews are great, but these little comments would suggest there are better options. I suspect Tuam to Athenry wouldn't be one of them

https://www.tripadvisor.ie/Attraction_Review-g315894-d8747758-Reviews-or10-Old_Rail_Trail-Mullingar_County_Westmeath.html

What do you make of this option? https://workinglivingtravellinginireland.com/2020/06/cycle-route-from-thoor-ballylee-to-the-gort-river-walk-in-the-burrenlowlands

01-06-2021 2:10pm

Exactly the type of rail investment needed in the west

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/step-forward-for-e24m-redevelopment-of-ceannt-station/

There’s been a step forward for plans for a major €24m redevelopment of Ceannt Station in the city.

The capital project will include the full replacement of the existing station roof, the upgrade of the southern facade and the creation of a new main entrance to the station.

Waiting areas for rail and bus passengers will also be upgraded, while three additional train platforms are to be developed.

Next up, full dual tracking all the way to Dublin, electrification, removal of remaining level crossings, demand stations and hey presto a sub 2hr Galway to Dublin service

Now THAT is investment with a tangible return for society and the economy

eastwest · 01-06-2021 2:47pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly the type of rail investment needed in the west

Next up, full dual tracking all the way to Dublin, electrification, removal of remaining level crossings, demand stations and hey presto a sub 2hr Galway to Dublin service

Now THAT is investment with a tangible return for society and the economy

Ah no, build a railway to Claremorris instead. Sure what hurry has anyone going up to Dublin, and the important people get paid by the mile anyway.

eastwest · 01-06-2021 2:51pm

It's started! Cork today, Swinford to kiltimagh tomorrow. Or sometime.
Government announces new metropolitan rail network for Cork as part of Economic Recovery Plan https://jrnl.ie/5454345

Greaney · 01-06-2021 3:14pm

Decades wrote: »

What do you make of this option? https://workinglivingtravellinginireland.com/2020/06/cycle-route-from-thoor-ballylee-to-the-gort-river-walk-in-the-burrenlowlands

I think this is terrific.:D Furthermore, I think if we want to develop greenways this is the way to get them.

1) This is the type of project that gets the funders attention. They like if folk have done the ground work and begun the research & development in a practical way. This also helps build capacity in the community to develop & maintain the trails as it's likely that they won't have 'staff' in the local authority to begin projects so they rely on small community initiatives.

2) This model is scale-able, which they really like, so you start with a few short options that take you, around the community to places of interest, you put it up on a web/facebook page & do a few 'event's to build profile, maybe you produce a brochure that can be popped into the local library, post office & interpretive center. Then perhaps one can invest in markers & other infra. Certainly my experience is give the council something to 'build on'.

3) This model promotes different communities joining up their routes.

4) Finally, It's transparent to so folk can see what's possible before big money has been spent, so that investment isn't wasted.

What's really important about this project is that it can be the work of one to three people. It doesn't need campaigns that get politicians & public whipped up, but one person who's showing what's possible...

happyoutscan · 01-06-2021 3:44pm

Decades wrote: »

What do you make of this option? https://workinglivingtravellinginireland.com/2020/06/cycle-route-from-thoor-ballylee-to-the-gort-river-walk-in-the-burrenlowlands

There have been a number of great cycle loops around Westport and further afield in Louisburgh for the last decade or longer.

Rarely used as they are not particularly suitable for kids and the terrain can be quite unfriendly to the less physically fit.

The main advantage of Greenways is they are generally flat and much safer for kids.

Decades · 01-06-2021 3:53pm

Greaney wrote: »

I think this is terrific.:D Furthermore, I think if we want to develop greenways this is the way to get them.

1) This is the type of project that gets the funders attention. They like if folk have done the ground work and begun the research & development in a practical way. This also helps build capacity in the community to develop & maintain the trails as it's likely that they won't have 'staff' in the local authority to begin projects so they rely on small community initiatives.

2) This model is scale-able, which they really like, so you start with a few short options that take you, around the community to places of interest, you put it up on a web/facebook page & do a few 'event's to build profile, maybe you produce a brochure that can be popped into the local library, post office & interpretive center. Then perhaps one can invest in markers & other infra. Certainly my experience is give the council something to 'build on'.

3) This model promotes different communities joining up their routes.

4) Finally, It's transparent to so folk can see what's possible before big money has been spent, so that investment isn't wasted.

What's really important about this project is that it can be the work of one to three people. It doesn't need campaigns that get politicians & public whipped up, but one person who's showing what's possible...

Leaving aside a love of trains (because that's a personal preference for transport), which of your 1-4 does not apply to any of the proposed greenways along the Western Transport Corridor?

01-06-2021 6:55pm

I wonder what impact this will have on any potential reopening of rail services in Mayo

Preferred route for new N17 between Knock and Collooney due by year end

https://www.con-telegraph.ie/2021/05/27/preferred-route-for-new-n17-between-knock-and-collooney-due-by-year-end/

A PREFERRED option route for the new N17 between Knock and Collooney is expected to be identified before the end of the year.

An update on the N17 Knock to Collooney (Atlantic Economic Corridor) project, which is at phase 2 (options selection) of the TII project management guidelines, has issued this week.

Initial feasible options (the long list) were established and released for public information last October, with a non-statutory public consultation period taking place until January 15, during which time submissions were encouraged from the public.

Preliminary options assessments have been ongoing and are now in the concluding phases.

A parallel shortlisting design analysis is also currently taking place (seeking to amalgamate and optimise certain options). This process will result in the establishment of refined options (i.e. the short list of options), which it is expected will be confirmed towards the middle/end of July, with the next non-statutory public consultation to take place thereafter.

It is also expected that a preferred option will be established by the end of 2021.

Improvements to the N17 between Knock and Collooney will enhance regional connectivity, facilitating and supporting the economy of the Atlantic Economic Corridor (AEC) and the North-West region in general.

Updates on the project are available here: https://n17knockcollooney.ie/

I think the CBA ratio for the closed rail line just fell off a cliff

end of the road · 01-06-2021 9:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly the type of rail investment needed in the west

Next up, full dual tracking all the way to Dublin, electrification, removal of remaining level crossings, demand stations and hey presto a sub 2hr Galway to Dublin service

Now THAT is investment with a tangible return for society and the economy

it is indeed and the reopening of the western railway corridor regional main line will complement this investment for sure.

eastwest wrote: »

It's started! Cork today, Swinford to kiltimagh tomorrow. Or sometime.
Government announces new metropolitan rail network for Cork as part of Economic Recovery Plan https://jrnl.ie/5454345

just announcing stuff that should have been done decades ago.
quite right and very welcome that it will finally get done.

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder what impact this will have on any potential reopening of rail services in Mayo

Updates on the project are available here: https://n17knockcollooney.ie/

I think the CBA ratio for the closed rail line just fell off a cliff

road upgrades could actually enhance it long term as road upgrades equals traffic increases but more roads won't be able to solve it for economic and environmental reasons.

01-06-2021 11:02pm

end of the road wrote: »

road upgrades could actually enhance it long term as road upgrades equals traffic increases but more roads won't be able to solve it for economic and environmental reasons.

Thankfully you are not doing the calculations otherwise we'd be getting a maglev to Kiltimagh with your mathematical acrobatics

end of the road · 02-06-2021 12:22pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thankfully you are not doing the calculations otherwise we'd be getting a maglev to Kiltimagh with your mathematical acrobatics

not at all, you would just be getting a good regional main line.

Greaney · 02-06-2021 1:57pm

Decades wrote: »

Leaving aside a love of trains (because that's a personal preference for transport), which of your 1-4 does not apply to any of the proposed greenways along the Western Transport Corridor?

I don't oppose greenways along the Western Transport corridor, I oppose the 'only one option greenway', at the expense of rail. To achieve anything, one always needs to have more than one option, and to have scale-able steps

None of the four points were applied to the QMG route

1) The practical ground work hasn't been done....no one has cycled the route, created the (mock-up) of the brochure/website, classified the roads or organised public/bike-week organised events for cyclists to engage in them. An internet campaign is not the same as actually getting on a bike. It's got to include those who've shouted the loudest for this facility to get on their bikes & cycle the area.
2) The proposed Athenry to Milltown route has not been made scale-able. There's no €5k, €20k investment elements etc. proposed
3)The ground work by local community bike groups who've been scoping their areas for routes & then joining them hasn't been part of the campaign
4) The descriptions of the greenway when it's finished are in the area of the imagination of those who are still at the dream stage. One is imagining it's going to be like Westport to Louisburg, however, with Gort trails, etc. one doesn't imagine, one has a rough sketch of what it's going to be... enough work has been done that it's a tangible reality, not a dream waiting to be shattered in the event of the train line opening.

Decades · 02-06-2021 4:09pm

Greaney wrote: »

None of the four points were applied to the QMG route
1) The practical ground work hasn't been done....no one has cycled the route, created the (mock-up) of the brochure/website, classified the roads or organised public/bike-week organised events for cyclists to engage in them. An internet campaign is not the same as actually getting on a bike. It's got to include those who've shouted the loudest for this facility to get on their bikes & cycle the area.

They have and do every day of the week - both by foot and bike.

Greaney wrote: »

2)The proposed Athenry to Milltown route has not been made scale-able. There's no €5k, €20k investment elements etc. proposed

Simply not true, but you couldn't know that.

Greaney wrote: »

3)The ground work by local community bike groups who've been scoping their areas for routes & then joining them hasn't been part of the campaign

Not true

Greaney wrote: »

4) The descriptions of the greenway when it's finished are in the area of the imagination of those who are still at the dream stage. One is imagining it's going to be like Westport to Louisburg, however, with Gort trails, etc. one doesn't imagine, one has a rough sketch of what it's going to be... enough work has been done that it's a tangible reality, not a dream waiting to be shattered in the event of the train line opening.

Not true

Galway County Council and perhaps Dublin-Galway will soon produce far more than a "rough sketch" in relation to Athenry's disused railway, so let see what they say. Sligo has well surpassed the "dreamers" state and sods will soon be turned. I hear there were people cycling around Swinford and Charlestown nailing colours to the greenway mast over the last few days. .

westtip · 03-06-2021 5:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder what impact this will have on any potential reopening of rail services in Mayo

Updates on the project are available here: https://n17knockcollooney.ie/

I think the CBA ratio for the closed rail line just fell off a cliff

thanks for posting that one up, indeed the new N17 and the Greenway will be of huge benefit to the local economies.

macker16 · 03-06-2021 7:13pm

It will be a long time before that road is built:D

eastwest · 03-06-2021 9:21pm

macker16 wrote: »

It will be a long time before that road is built:D

The time will seem very short by comparison with the return of a railway on this route.

westtip · 04-06-2021 11:04am

macker16 wrote: »

It will be a long time before that road is built:D

That is very true, equally as already noted the railway is not going to happen any sooner. The fact of the matter that this route is part of the TEN-T network and will be liable for European funding. The railway from Athenry-Claremorris has already been the subject of a formal evaluation process in two reports that found it wanting in terms of any level of evaluation criteria, one of the most serious being potential EU funding (go look at Jaspers), re the railway north of Claremorris that is completely off anyones radar. If its not on the radar it is not in the planning process. This road is in the planning process so the seed has been planted, it is also part of the National Development plan, the two aforementioned reports were part of the NDP as well, and we know where they got the railway. Of course the railway is now on the national rail review, but lets be realistic about that one and the real priorities it will lay down. So yes you are right it will be a long time before that road will be built, the same was said of the N4 Castlebaldwin to Collooney (which will probably open before Christmas) just as an example, and by the way here is another example a section of the N5 that has been talked about for years is part of the NDP but got good news this week https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/48152-n5-project-in-roscommon-signed-off-on-by-minister?fbclid=IwAR1Giq2PPKRtSSbSBkjCMflmp_wwiKwNGFlsKQ49Lemg4sj-yIT-ZB5p630

All these things take a long time, but I can assure you in the fullness of time, over the next 15 years a dual carriageway will run from Letterkenny to Cork, and the WRC thread will still be discussing the WRC, one hopes in 15 years time, the discussion will be when is the railway parallel with the highly successful greenway going to be put in place, or will the electric cars, buses and trucks rendered it not necessary. Hey ho on we go but as I say having the project in the planning loop is important, and the WRC simply is not there.

Captain Lugger · 04-06-2021 11:41pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thankfully you are not doing the calculations otherwise we'd be getting a maglev to Kiltimagh with your mathematical acrobatics

The campaign starts here! Thanx for the suggestion...

westtip · 09-06-2021 3:15pm

Great news for the west of ireland as Green Transport Minister signs off on new road. This part of the N5 has been a nightmare for years, reference to it here a couple of weeks ago that it was due to go to cabinet, now it has the nod. Can't wait to see the same as soon as possible for the N17 Collooney to Knock.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/9e42d-minister-ryan-announces-n5-ballaghaderreen-to-scramoge-road-project/?fbclid=IwAR1_8CwzZKoJ8K4i0lCLPoVY1qPsJX-7Xdvp6xMOUNtS9rTLGSyARNQEdjw

21-06-2021 10:23am

So WoT were so annoyed by the EY report that they thought was going to save the day, that they've gone and done their own special report which says, wait for it........ that it would be a brilliant use of money to reopen north of Athenry to Claremorris

Personally I was shocked by this revelation that only WOT could find in their own totally absolutely positively non-biased I swear report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/case-against-rail-link-from-athenry-to-claremorris-fundamentally-flawed-1.4598670?mode=amp

westtip · 21-06-2021 12:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So WoT were so annoyed by the EY report that they thought was going to save the day, that they've gone and done their own special report which says, wait for it........ that it would be a brilliant use of money to reopen north of Athenry to Claremorris

Personally I was shocked by this revelation that only WOT could find in their own totally absolutely positively non-biased I swear report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/case-against-rail-link-from-athenry-to-claremorris-fundamentally-flawed-1.4598670?mode=amp

Hilarious!!!!!

random_guy · 21-06-2021 12:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

So WoT were so annoyed by the EY report that they thought was going to save the day, that they've gone and done their own special report which says, wait for it........ that it would be a brilliant use of money to reopen north of Athenry to Claremorris

Personally I was shocked by this revelation that only WOT could find in their own totally absolutely positively non-biased I swear report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/case-against-rail-link-from-athenry-to-claremorris-fundamentally-flawed-1.4598670?mode=amp

Is it published anywhere?

eastwest · 21-06-2021 12:42pm

random_guy wrote: »

Is it published anywhere?

That's obviously the end of the debate so. I mean, what would the ECB know, and as for EY Consulting?
This latest stunt may keep the little band of fans happy, but no government in its right mind will do anything other than bin it.

They missed a trick though, the report should have said that the project can be done for nothing and with money back when it's done. After all, when you're writing the story, you can give it any ending you like. That's how fairy tales work.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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