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First olympic transgender athlete to compete at Tokyo 2020 **MOD NOTE IN OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,345 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    saddest thing about this is Women don't have the balls to boycott the event.

    Why should it be women’s job to fix this? Do you only care about unfairness that affects you personally?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    saddest thing about this is Women don't have the balls to boycott the event.

    One has ....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,159 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    Didn't spot the age, well think the fairness question has been answered already.

    I remember reading that the current rules for entry are due to levels of hormones in your system for X time.


    Which actually means a person could plan to switch gender - win gold and switch back before the next olympics.

    I wonder if Bruce Jenner's new iteration had happened earlier, and that Caitlyn had entered the olympics say, 15 years later as a woman competitor, how would she have fared? The Decathlon event for women happened later, so the point is moot, but the events are less demanding according to Wikipedia.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Vestiapx wrote: »
    That guy is misgendering. Misgendering is disgusting. This is really a case of don't blame the player blame the game so if the Olympics allow transgender athletes then it's not a case of this lifter taking someones spot it's simply her spot.
    If the Olympics ban transgender athletes the repercussions are large. However it should simply be a matter of making the athletes pass a level of male hormones that is less than double the largest of non transgender athletes. Currently the levels of test allowed is many multiples of this.

    Ehh it is too late to base this on the current level of male hormones.
    They could have zero testosterone and it wouldn't matter a fook.

    The benefits and unfair advantages were achieved when they went through puberty.


    And womens sport is finished if this farce is allowed.

    Really one has to ask how many countries in the Olympic movement give a rats ass about transgenderism ?

    Oh yeah the Western countries with all their liberals and cause celebre munching twitter heads setting the discourse do, but seriously how many people in most of the world are worried about transgender athletes ?


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    But the thing is, Sport is just entertainment.
    It should serve a societal good, not create and copperfasten injustices.

    It's not all that different to the arguments that people made to keep black athletes out of sport.
    By segregating women in this way, you are supporting the idea that they are inferior or something. It becomes rational to pay them less because they don't capture as much viewership etc

    However, say in football, if every team was composed of an equal number of men and women, all paid nearly the same. Well that would open a lot of opportunity to women athletes, and would also put immense pressure on countries that are more sexist.

    What a load of bollox.

    I can understand how some people may not get sport.
    Fine.
    But how the fook people in this day and age don't get simple biology is beyond me.

    I don't know, but at times it looks like the more developed we get, especially in what we term the Western world, the fooking stupider we seem to be getting.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭Curse These Metal Hands


    Fierce triceps on her.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭bfa1509


    Shield wrote: »
    For those asking why this decision is unfair to biological women, here's a helpful visual of Hubbard's previous winning margins and the probability statistic of this ever occurring...

    QNx6JHZ.png

    You could argue the women's event is beginning to follow an exponential trend :pac:


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Shield wrote: »
    For those asking why this decision is unfair to biological women
    Asking why is the ultimate in dishonesty.

    And I also don't see the merit in the argument that accountability doesn't lie with the competitor, only with those who gave it the green light. The competitor chose to compete knowing of the advantage. I don't give a hoot if someone is trans - I don't know Laurel, could be the soundest person ever, my issue is not with her being trans, despite the misrepresentation of views like mine.

    My issue is with her knowing that she has taken someone's chance away because of her physical advantage. This physical advantage is real, and denying it is saying 2+2=5.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 9,815 CMod ✭✭✭✭Shield


    If anyone is interested in further reading, Ross Tucker, an expert in sport science, wrote an article today for The Times entitled "Evidence suggests inclusion comes at expense of fairness". He has linked to the full article on his Twitter feed below.

    https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1407249318189449217


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Nozebleed wrote: »
    saddest thing about this is Women don't have the balls to boycott the event.
    Please. Women are being gas-lighted enough without the likes of that.

    Women have fought their asses off over the years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Shield wrote: »
    For those asking why this decision is unfair to biological women, here's a helpful visual of Hubbard's previous winning margins and the probability statistic of this ever occurring...

    One thing that I think is being insidiously introduced into the modern lexicon is this term "biological women" and "cis women" to describe what we have been terming women for millenia.

    Why should a female born woman have to have anything added on to their gender description just so a tiny percentage of people who now identify as a woman are accommodated.

    To me it is as ludicrous as the drive by some numpties to demand that it is no longer pregnant women, but pregnant people.

    All because a few people got pregnant as women, but now identify as something else post conception.

    Now I await the flak from the progressives who will label me all sorts, but frankly being honest I couldn't give a rats ass.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Laurenf35


    So men are better than us at sports
    Then we have to train harder to beat the patriarchy


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,781 ✭✭✭mohawk


    This is not the first olympic transgender. Stanislawa Walasiewicz won gold for Poland in 1932.

    It was not discovered that she was male until after her death, during the autopsy. Although looking at pictures of her, it looks pretty obvious.

    Stanis%C5%82awa_Walasiewicz_1938.jpg

    It appears that Stanislawa Walasiewicz was Intersex not transgender. She had a chromosomal disorder.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 98 ✭✭NoLuckLarry


    Laurenf35 wrote: »
    So men are better than us at sports
    Then we have to train harder to beat the patriarchy

    Sorry to break this to you but the patriarchy weekly meeting decided we are sitting this one out, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a single man in support of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,159 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    Laurenf35 wrote: »
    So men are better than us at sports
    Then we have to train harder to beat the patriarchy

    You could start your Matreon campaign to fund this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,534 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Might as well just post the medal over now because no woman has a chance of beating that person.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,559 ✭✭✭...Ghost...


    Allowing biological men to compete with women is as absurd as allowing under 12's compete with a senior team.

    Makes a mockery of the whole sport.

    Same idiots advocating for this will also be the ones complaining about the gender pay gap.

    Similar to the under 15s boys playing the USA womens team? In fairness, if the team fills up with trans women, they won't be beaten by the boys club again so easily.
    The same people who slam climate deniers for not listening to the science on climate change , seem perfectly fine changing science when it comes to biology

    :confused:

    I believe in climate change.
    I don't believe there is a gender pay gap though.
    Follow the science :)

    Stay Free



  • Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭Tilden Katz


    Shield wrote: »
    If anyone is interested in further reading, Ross Tucker, an expert in sport science, wrote an article today for The Times entitled "Evidence suggests inclusion comes at expense of fairness". He has linked to the full article on his Twitter feed below.

    https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1407249318189449217

    Ross Tucket is excellent to read on this topic. Emma Hilton too.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Christy42 wrote: »
    I mean maybe we don't need to entirely revisit how we look at sports over a few people? We have had transgender athletes for a while and yet there is a total of 1?!? athletes at the biggest sporting comp going.

    Ah apparently I missed Russia (in one of the quoted posts, not you) in the list of those promoting LGBT agenda to bring down society. Given we have reached the level of person competes in sporting competition in a sport without much money in it. I feel like they are a little bit away from their goal.

    I mean there is probably a discussion to be had on whether it gives an advantage but when we have someone asking if there is any real alternative to just throwing everyone into the same division regardless of gender and more talking about how lgbt agendas are a foreign plot to overthrow the west I feel like we can safely say that debate isn't going to happen reasonably here.
    Hardly anyone is saying that.

    Instead of focusing on the extremists, why not consider that there are simply people who don't give a hoot if someone is trans but won't pretend a transwoman is a woman (a transwoman is a transwoman - recognition of gender which is not sex) and think this is unfair because of a very obvious physical advantage. That's it. It's not unreasonable.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Might as well just post the medal over now because no woman has a chance of beating that person.

    Except that Hubbard is mid-40s and not an exceptional lifter. Hubbard has been beaten by competing women before.

    And if this middle-aged, unexceptional lifter gets anything less than gold, that will be used by disingenuous activists as evidence that trans women do not have any physical advantage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    I support trans people and their right to live their lives how they wish.
    On most issues I would probably be on the liberal side but Trans women competing in Women's sport is just simply unfair.

    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2021/jun/22/by-conflating-gender-and-sex-we-undermine-sporting-competition

    This is a good article from of all places the Guardian, supporting this view.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Shield wrote: »
    If anyone is interested in further reading, Ross Tucker, an expert in sport science, wrote an article today for The Times entitled "Evidence suggests inclusion comes at expense of fairness". He has linked to the full article on his Twitter feed below.

    https://twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1407249318189449217

    Good article but I don't know why I bother reading the comments on twitter sometimes .... Terf , cis , intersectional feminist etc... do they just start making up new words , like genders every few weeks ..


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 91,227 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    It's not that power corrupts so much as power being magnetic to the corruptible.

    Weightlifting isn't a clean sport. The total number of Olympic medals stripped is the same as athletics. IIRC about 300 And there are a lot more events in athletics.

    Weight categories have been changed multiple times due to cheating. At at each change previous world records were no longer recognised.

    Up to 14% of Elite athletes would still take a 50:50 chance dying to win gold
    Elite athletes were generally the most willing to accept a fatal cardiovascular risk to win a gold medal in the Olympics. This range was similar to the levels of risk that patients accept for life-changing interventions.




    The question is not whether transgender people cheat, but if cheats become transgender.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,872 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    It's funny how some of the users on here who pretend to care about women become very quiet when this topic comes up.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Rothko wrote: »
    It's funny how some of the users on here who pretend to care about women become very quiet when this topic comes up.
    Not just quiet. Downright throwing women under a bus. The cognitive dissonance is quite amazing - particularly when they start using insults


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's only a matter of time before they allow self diagnosed transabilists to compete in the special Olympics.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,872 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    Lurleen wrote: »
    Not just quiet. Downright throwing women under a bus. The cognitive dissonance is quite amazing - particularly when they start using insults

    Agreed.

    Even that case there where the female MMA fighter gets a skull fracture in a match. They couldn't give a f*ck about her. I think it exposes how they really feel about women.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Rothko wrote: »
    Agreed.

    Even that case there where the female MMA fighter gets a skull fracture in a match. They couldn't give a f*ck about her. I think it exposes how they really feel about women.

    Sadly, I don't think it's how little they care about women, I think it's how little they understand that biological men aren't the same as women.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,872 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    Sadly, I don't think it's how little they care about women, I think it's how little they understand that biological men aren't the same as women.

    I think that'd be better than them being heartless. Instead it's just down to stupidity or being uneducated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭Rezident


    Amazing the common sense and bias that people can ignore on this issue - once it suits them. Wilful blindness is a dangerous thing.

    There is no way a biological male should be competing with biological females. If they can ignore common sense here, what else are they capable of? Be careful. In contact sports like Boxing, MMA, rugby etc. people are going to get seriously hurt and in the name of what, exactly? Identity politics?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,907 ✭✭✭El Gato De Negocios


    I would absolutely love to see the other entrants make a stand on this matter and refuse to compete. Default award the gold to this individual to highlight the ridiculousness of the whole thing.


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