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Ofsted boss warns ‘militant’ activism in schools is a threat to education

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    #32
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,994 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Edz87 wrote: »
    It should be called Grooming
    Are you seriously playing the old 'homosexuality = paedophilia' card?
    growleaves wrote: »
    Corrupt. Every social institution has been captured and turned into a vehicle for politics. The original purpose of the social institution, in this case education, is downgraded - and would be downgraded 100% if adjudged necessary.
    What exactly is political about promoting tolerance and equality of gay people?
    Gradius wrote: »
    If you need more time than basically any other goddamn issue on Earth, a month of every year, to convince people...

    Maybe it's time to start questioning your product and why anything less than sheer acceptance makes you feel uncomfortable.
    Are you seriously referencing homosexuality as a 'product'? Who's selling it?


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    #33
    Gradius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Are you seriously playing the old 'homosexuality = paedophilia' card?


    What exactly is political about promoting tolerance and equality of gay people?


    Are you seriously referencing homosexuality as a 'product'? Who's selling it?

    "Are you seriously playing the old "capitalism = freedom" card?"

    "What exactly is political about putting women in their place and stoning them to death to promote justice?"

    "Are you seriously referencing homosexuality as a "product" that has been latched onto by gigantic corporations to get free advertising like Nike who selectively edit messages depending on who and where they're selling?"

    Everything's an idea, buddy, it's all a matter of local zeitgeist, some are sensible and some are not, some have staying power.

    Many are gone before you blink. Don't swear by gospels and you may find yourself less squeamish.

    When something has been been fashionable in less than, say, 10% of the world for, say, less than a decade, versus institutions millennia old, I wouldn't go swearing by it just yet.

    Like rollerblades :p


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    spurious wrote: »
    I think it's great for the many children in primary who will already be realising they are 'different' and of course those who are children of same sex couples.
    Schools should be inclusive.

    They already were. Everyone could go to school, irrespective of their personal circumstances.

    Or does inclusive mean that their situation becomes highlighted? By focusing on these things, they're ensuring that people view them as "different".. as opposed to simply being students going to school, where nobody cares what their personal circumstances are.

    These initiatives just seem to reinforce differences rather than seek a society where these things aren't special or noteworthy.


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    #35
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,994 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They already were. Everyone could go to school, irrespective of their personal circumstances.

    Or does inclusive mean that their situation becomes highlighted? By focusing on these things, they're ensuring that people view them as "different".. as opposed to simply being students going to school, where nobody cares what their personal circumstances are.

    These initiatives just seem to reinforce differences rather than seek a society where these things aren't special or noteworthy.

    Have you spoken to many gay people about their school experiences?


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    #36
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    I actually read that article to mean other children were engaging in this "activism" not that teachers which pushing it in classrooms.
    What do you do in situations where it is kids pushing a certain agenda, be it learned from parents or social media or whatever?


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    #37
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,932 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Let's peel back the layers here who is this spielman and why are they coming out attacking schools in this manner. This wouldn't be another Tory dead cat tactic more of their stoking culture wars that don't exist in people's day to day lifes.


    These Charlatans and harlots say they universities are hot beds of woke left liberal thinking depsite all having coming from universities. They are a raft of rich privileged snobs who's only job is to Stoke culture wars to make middle and working class people think they are being attacked. Prevent them from waking up to the fact they are being robbed billions stolen to shift off to friends and cronies and then exited to the Caribbean islands.


    It's hilarious people fall for it and especially many of the educated people on here many of whom contribute very well to other forums



    Culture war bollix.


    Theft behind the scenes


    Rather than the OP getting outrage about stuff that should really piss them off like this .




    The Tories have them concerned about kids being into climate change. Think about that long and hard .


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Have you spoken to many gay people about their school experiences?

    I suspect I've spoken to more than you, as I'm bisexual. I also have a shaking disorder, and my parents were teachers in my hometown. A triple whammy of recognition. So, yeah.. I have an inkling of what's involved.

    Oh! That's not supposed to happen! The injustices directed towards gay people should silence all foes to the righteous. :rolleyes:

    Note what I said. (I'll shift the bolded word for you): "These initiatives just seem to reinforce differences rather than seek a society where these things aren't special or noteworthy."


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    #39
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,756 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    seamus wrote: »
    A school should make it clear that all of the children within - and their families - are welcome and accepted for who they are regardless of gender, ethnicity, sexuality, nationality, etc. And that the school will side with them and not with bigots.

    Flying the pride flag for the pride month is a demonstration of that.


    That’s a matter of perspective really, depending upon the ethos of the school. Flying the pride flag for the month of Pride is a demonstration of their politics, which is fine, as it’s also a signal for people who disagree with their politics to give the school a wide berth :D

    seamus wrote: »
    Any parent who feels it is "inappropriate", needs to ask themselves why normalising homosexuality makes them feel uncomfortable.


    It’s not normalising anything though, it’s promoting a political and social view which from their point of view is inappropriate to promote to children. Your attempt to frame the question in that way would be like me suggesting any parent who feels Catholicism is “inappropriate” needs to ask themselves why normalising treating all human life as sacred makes them feel uncomfortable. I’m not even going to play silly buggers with you because I’m well aware of the reasons for people’s objections to Catholic Education.

    My son has known all his life already that what is or isn’t acceptable to me is his behaviour. I won’t say I couldn’t give a flying fcuk who he’s knocking boots with, because I do, he’s my son and I’m responsible not just for his welfare, but I also have a responsibility towards wider society to ensure that my son understands the concept of social responsibility.

    Unfortunately it doesn’t appear to have sunk in because in spite of my best efforts, he still felt he had to do this whole nauseating “coming out” effort. We both knew it was bollocks, and I could tell he was hamming it the fcuk up. The conversation went something like this after an argument -

    “Dad… I’m gay”

    “Yeah but that’s no reason to be miserable, you could have told me that before and saved us both the headache!”

    “Yeah but you’re Catholic!”

    “So what? So are you?”

    “Yeah but that’s different…”

    “Oh fcuk off!”

    And he burst out laughing, because he knew well he was winding me up. He wanted me to care about something I just didn’t care about. I care about him getting good grades in school, I care about him treating people with respect, I care that he’s happy, I couldn’t care less that he’s gay.


    (I was involved in organising Pride events before his arse was big as a shirt button. I stopped being involved over 20 years ago when it became clear it wasn’t about pride, it was about politics)


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    (I was involved in organising Pride events before his arse was big as a shirt button. I stopped being involved over 20 years ago when it became clear it wasn’t about pride, it was about politics)

    Ditto on that.


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    #41
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,410 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Kids shouldn’t need to cross intimidation lines to get to their class and be with their friends and learn.. they are not picket lines....they are intimidation lines... if it happening outside a children’s hospital the cops would shut it down, they should do the same here.

    Teachers need to teach what’s in the syllabus.... nothing more..enabling children to learn, be educated, develop.


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    #42
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    McGinniesta wrote: »
    Activism of any description should not be encouraged in any way shape or form whilst educating minors.

    Teachers should do their job and that's it.

    If kids want to express themselves it should be done independently of their place of education and preferably on their own time and money.


    Turned on RTE junior for the kids in the past few days and the presenter was bursting with enthusiasm about " Pride Month " , what then followed was a piece from a Dublin school with kids running about waving rainbow flags ( as if they were in China circa 1960 with little red books )and talking about how important "pride " is, the narator also referred to " LGBT " a few times

    Blatant ideological indoctrination


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    #43
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Promotion of pride should be left out of school ,it in itself is an activists agenda ,I've always said the only flags should be flying is the tricolour and county flags at buildings such as schools or civic centers .
    It's got nothing to with anti anything or phobics it's schools should be neutral grounds and there for education not promoting one idea over another
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm finding it hilarious that a poster has likened the flag to a swastika during nazi Germany... Cause the Nazis were so well known for their tolerance. The reality is children have diverse families, they have get family members and their parents might even be gay. So yep it's pretty good to encourage tolerance versus ignoring the topic entirely, like one of the biggest reasons for homophobic bullying be it in primary or secondary school was because being LGBT was treated as abnormal.
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Turned on RTE junior for the kids in the past few days and the presenter was bursting with enthusiasm about " Pride Month " , what then followed was a piece from a Dublin school with kids running about waving rainbow flags ( as if they were in China circa 1960 with little red books )and talking about how important "pride " is, the narator also referred to " LGBT " a few times

    Blatant ideological indoctrination

    You poor mite...


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    #45
    D rog
    Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭D rog


    Promotion of ideology to young minds? Our entire school system was a catholic religious lifestyle education vehicle until very recently!
    I'm very glad to see some other, more secular, ideologies start to get in there and balance things a bit.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm finding it hilarious that a poster has likened the flag to a swastika during nazi Germany... Cause the Nazis were so well known for their tolerance. The reality is children have diverse families, they have get family members and their parents might even be gay. So yep it's pretty good to encourage tolerance versus ignoring the topic entirely, like one of the biggest reasons for homophobic bullying be it in primary or secondary school was because being LGBT was treated as abnormal.

    You can promote tolerance by mentioning homosexuality in the course of teaching about other sexualities, and gay parents in the course of talking about parents generally, and so on.

    My children have gay aunts and uncles, a gay grandparent, most of the couples we hang out with are gay, etc. If anything, they probably think heterosexuality is the outlier. Seeing pride flags to celebrate something that they already see as entirely normal, before they are of an age to properly understand concepts like social shame well enough to grasp the concept of "pride" as a pushback against that, rather than a simple celebration of gay people for being gay (because who the hell would celeberate that anyway), is absolutely, 100% going to make them see gay as "different" in a way that they currently do not.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You can promote tolerance by mentioning homosexuality in the course of teaching about other sexualities, and gay parents in the course of talking about parents generally, and so on.

    My children have gay aunts and uncles, a gay grandparent, most of the couples we hang out with are gay, etc. If anything, they probably think heterosexuality is the outlier. Seeing pride flags to celebrate something that they already see as entirely normal, before they are of an age to properly understand concepts like social shame well enough to grasp the concept of "pride" as a pushback against that, rather than a simple celebration of gay people for being gay (because who the hell would celeberate that anyway), is absolutely, 100% going to make them see gay as "different" in a way that they currently do not.
    There's a huge history behind that flag so I'd hope they're educated on why pride exists. It's because historically intolerance has been an issue and it's genuinely good to learn about that side of pretty modern history. It exists because very recent generations were discriminated against to a huge degree. It's a celebration of getting a through a huge struggle and recognizing that others still are facing such a struggle elsewhere.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm finding it hilarious that a poster has likened the flag to a swastika during nazi Germany... Cause the Nazis were so well known for their tolerance. The reality is children have diverse families, they have get family members and their parents might even be gay. So yep it's pretty good to encourage tolerance versus ignoring the topic entirely, like one of the biggest reasons for homophobic bullying be it in primary or secondary school was because being LGBT was treated as abnormal.

    How was it being ignored?

    We've had decades of school initiatives to manage bullying, homophobia, and a wide range of other issues, even to the point where many schools have hired counselors who specialize in creating programs to manage these problems. Our legal system has gradually, over time, introduced laws to manage and punish those who engage in persecuting LGBT, or other issues in society.

    I've done a range of extra qualifications beyond my primary degree to help me with teaching/lecturing, and most of them had a few components dealing with diversity or increasing teacher awareness about bullying, or LGBT issues,

    So, why is there this need for further campaigning, since our society is already extremely sympathetic towards LGBT or the issues of bullying? Better yet, why the need to project this campaigning into schools, and directing such agendas towards children?


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    #49
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Teaching kids about sexuality of course belongs on the sex ed curriculum.

    Inviting in activist groups such as Mermaids into school to distribute ideology like the below is another kettle of fish;

    barbie-gender-spectrum.jpg


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    #50
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,994 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How was it being ignored?

    We've had decades of school initiatives to manage bullying, homophobia, and a wide range of other issues, even to the point where many schools have hired counselors who specialize in creating programs to manage these problems. Our legal system has gradually, over time, introduced laws to manage and punish those who engage in persecuting LGBT, or other issues in society.

    I've done a range of extra qualifications beyond my primary degree to help me with teaching/lecturing, and most of them had a few components dealing with diversity or increasing teacher awareness about bullying, or LGBT issues,

    So, why is there this need for further campaigning, since our society is already extremely sympathetic towards LGBT or the issues of bullying? Better yet, why the need to project this campaigning into schools, and directing such agendas towards children?

    Because homophobic bullying still happens routinely, in schools, on the streets, on the sports field. You have listened to gay people telling you about this, right?

    And what Irish schools specifically have 'hired counselors to create programmes on LGBT issues' please?


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    #51
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,498 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Teaching kids about sexuality of course belongs on the sex ed curriculum.

    Inviting in activist groups such as Mermaids into school to distribute ideology like the below is another kettle of fish;

    barbie-gender-spectrum.jpg

    Are there primary schools inviting that group in?


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How was it being ignored?

    We've had decades of school initiatives to manage bullying, homophobia, and a wide range of other issues, even to the point where many schools have hired counselors who specialize in creating programs to manage these problems. Our legal system has gradually, over time, introduced laws to manage and punish those who engage in persecuting LGBT, or other issues in society.

    I've done a range of extra qualifications beyond my primary degree to help me with teaching/lecturing, and most of them had a few components dealing with diversity or increasing teacher awareness about bullying, or LGBT issues,

    So, why is there this need for further campaigning, since our society is already extremely sympathetic towards LGBT or the issues of bullying? Better yet, why the need to project this campaigning into schools, and directing such agendas towards children?

    As a person who left the secondary system about ten years back. Schools are **** with bullying, they can handle it terribly. Plenty of campaigning perhaps but I have personal experience of it being handled poorly. I'm completely lost on why anyone would be so offended by the concept of pride. So ya I think creating an environment where bullying is less and the school feels actively more inclusive is great.


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    #53
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,994 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Are there primary schools inviting that group in?

    That group isn't active in Ireland, but some people are desperate to paint the picture of the big scary bogeyman who's going to infect their kids with gayness.


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    #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's a huge history behind that flag so I'd hope they're educated on why pride exists. It's because historically intolerance has been an issue and it's genuinely good to learn about that side of pretty modern history. It exists because very recent generations were discriminated against to a huge degree. It's a celebration of getting a through a huge struggle and recognizing that others still are facing such a struggle elsewhere.

    Sure, I agree that that should be part of a history education and that it should be taught to children who are old enough to understand it.

    I just don't think that pride month celebrations on tots TV are achieving that so much as they are highlighting difference to children who live in the first country in the world to legalise SSM by popular vote.


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    #55
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Are there primary schools inviting that group in?

    They were in the UK as far as i know


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    #56
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    That group isn't active in Ireland, but some people are desperate to paint the picture of the big scary bogeyman who's going to infect their kids with gayness.

    Nope sorry. As i clarified that group is/were active in UK schools.

    Personally i dont want my daughter told that if she likes playing with GI Joes and toy cars she might be born in the wrong body.

    Same way i dont want her told that a man in the sky is judging her every thought and action.

    Same way i dont want her taught that her white skin is some sort of original sin.


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    #57
    kildare lad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    byhookorbycrook wrote: »
    Are there primary schools inviting that group in?

    The was a case in Canada of a sick weirdo brainwashing kids , including giving a 12 yo blockers without informing the parents . It's actually sick some of the ideology people think is ok to push on children.

    https://thebridgehead.ca/2019/04/22/gender-therapy-doctor-admits-to-advising-kids-to-fake-being-suicidal-to-get-transgender-treatments/

    https://whatisawoman.uk/?page=Casestudy

    https://www.city-journal.org/canadian-father-jailed-for-speaking-out-about-trans-identifying-child


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    #58
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    D rog wrote: »
    Promotion of ideology to young minds? Our entire school system was a catholic religious lifestyle education vehicle until very recently!
    I'm very glad to see some other, more secular, ideologies start to get in there and balance things a bit.

    yes , everything new is always positive


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    #59
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,994 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    They were in the UK as far as i know
    Do you know, or do you not know? You were asked a specific question about primary schools, so maybe you could either answer the question, or confirm that you don't actually know the answer.
    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Nope sorry. As i clarified that group is/were active in UK schools.

    Personally i dont want my daughter told that if she likes playing with GI Joes and toy cars she might be born in the wrong body.

    Same way i dont want her told that a man in the sky is judging her every thought and action.

    Same way i dont want her taught that her white skin is some sort of original sin.

    Do Mermaids teach that 'someone is born in the wrong body'? That sounds a bit of a 1980s perspective, so they've probably moved on from that by now.
    kildare lad wrote: »
    The was a case in Canada of a sick weirdo brainwashing kids , including giving a 12 yo blockers without informing the parents . It's actually sick some of the ideology people think is ok to push on children.

    https://thebridgehead.ca/2019/04/22/gender-therapy-doctor-admits-to-advising-kids-to-fake-being-suicidal-to-get-transgender-treatments/

    https://whatisawoman.uk/?page=Casestudy

    https://www.city-journal.org/canadian-father-jailed-for-speaking-out-about-trans-identifying-child

    It's amazing how well informed some people are about edge cases in other countries on this one particular issue, even though those cases have no relevance to Ireland.


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    #60
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,548 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    They got a few days off, made up posters with their crayons and had a laugh. Now it's all forgotten about and they're happy to be driven everywhere in mummy's gas guzzling troop carrier.
    I dont think they are any more serious than their elders.

    When I was at school we'd have certainly went on strike for a day out in Dublin or Cork.
    Locally there's one or two who occasionally have a protest or post stuff online and they don't seem to be convincing their friends.


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Do Mermaids teach that 'someone is born in the wrong body'? That sounds a bit of a 1980s perspective, so they've probably moved on from that by now.

    It's not that '80s. You'll find plenty of trans people referring to themselves as being born in the wrong body if you do a very quick search.

    Mermaids used this language until the UK government released guidance that said:
    Materials which suggest that non-conformity to gender stereotypes should be seen as synonymous with having a different gender identity should not be used and you should not work with external agencies or organisations that produce such material. While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing, teachers should always seek to treat individual students with sympathy and support.

    At which point, Mermaids declare for the first time that "No child is born in the wrong body".


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