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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail

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    #4412
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    random_guy wrote: »
    Is it published anywhere?

    Not that I've been able to find so far

    I did check their site and even their latest news section, however that just contained a press release from 2018 when they said this about the EY report
    We are confident that the independent review of the potential of the railway in the context of the Atlantic Economic Corridor will confirm the major contribution that the railway can make in terms of regional connectivity, linking Galway city with its natural hinterland in line with the National Planning Framework, as well as opening up the southern ports directly to freight traffic from the west, an essential requirement in the context of Brexit.

    That independent review didn't go the way they wanted so they've written their own review that says what they want because, well, umm, they wrote it to say that lol

    WOT are currently not responding to requests in their Facebook & Twitter feeds where people are asking to see the report itself rather than a press release about the report


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    #4413
    Decades
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭Decades


    Genuinely - what's going on here lads?

    1) https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/iarnrod-eireann-and-xpo-logistics-to-begin-new-twi

    and now this 2) https://fleet.ie/national-local-politicians-call-on-dublin-port-to-reverse-its-decision-on-ceasing-its-freight-service-to-and-from-ballina/

    Are we getting increased freight trains, to and from Ballina,- or not? Asking for a friend.


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    #4414
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Decades wrote: »
    Genuinely - what's going on here lads?

    1) https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/iarnrod-eireann-and-xpo-logistics-to-begin-new-twi

    and now this 2) https://fleet.ie/national-local-politicians-call-on-dublin-port-to-reverse-its-decision-on-ceasing-its-freight-service-to-and-from-ballina/

    Are we getting increased freight trains, to and from Ballina,- or not? Asking for a friend.

    We're not getting more trains from Ballina, even if they can coax another mega polluter like asahi back .
    In the short term, there will.probably be no major changes in freight levels. Longer term, once Coca Cola has monitored their need to be in ballina post Brexit, who knows?
    Either way, the chances of a second freight line being built to serve Ballina, when the existing one has the capacity to handle ten times as much volume, is pretty slim.


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    #4415
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,519 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    Decades wrote: »
    Genuinely - what's going on here lads?

    1) https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/iarnrod-eireann-and-xpo-logistics-to-begin-new-twi

    and now this 2) https://fleet.ie/national-local-politicians-call-on-dublin-port-to-reverse-its-decision-on-ceasing-its-freight-service-to-and-from-ballina/

    Are we getting increased freight trains, to and from Ballina,- or not? Asking for a friend.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/dublin-port-rail-link-suspended-due-to-brexit-congestion-1.4594404

    Dublin Port Company are no longer allowing the IWT trains cross East Wall Road and enter the port - and so IWT have had to suspend their rail-freight from Ballina to Dublin.

    They are still going ahead with their expanded Waterford service

    They seem to still be allowing the Tara Mines trains into the Port, as I saw one heading down Alexandra Rd yesterday.


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    #4416
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Western Rail Corridor, or Connemara Railway, coming up on Drivetime in the next few minutes. :confused:

    ****



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    #4417
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    It was the WRC - Dr.John Bradley - "It's a very good project".

    ****



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    #4418
    Decades
    Registered Users Posts: 45 ✭Decades


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    It was the WRC - Dr.John Bradley - "It's a very good project".

    It's not a project - c'est le problème.


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    #4419
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Decades wrote: »
    It's not a project - c'est le problème.

    It is a project, but of the imagination.
    And of reports, lots of reports.


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    #4420
    Grassey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭Grassey


    This quote from Michael Gove in 2016 popped into my mind reading the last few posts.... for some reason :pac:
    “I think the people of this country have had enough of experts with organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong.”


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    #4421
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Thjs quote also came to mind from a retired economist on drivetime this week
    The bridges are there the railway line is there, the beauty of this is that it is ready to go

    Ballglunin? Railway line that is only fit for scrap? I think The West on Track report author is being a tad optimistic.


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    #4422
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    westtip wrote: »
    Thjs quote also came to mind from a retired economist on drivetime this week



    Ballglunin? Railway line that is only fit for scrap? I think The West on Track report author is being a tad optimistic.




    ready to go means the relevant requirements are in place for the line to be rebuilt and reopened.
    so the route, embankments, and most bridges etc.
    the line will have to be rebuilt of course, new track, drainage works etc but that is standard practice for a line that has been out of use for a good few years, and with most of the big infrastructure in place it is easy to do and the missing bridge can be built easily.



    at the opposite end of the scale you have as an example, the old line to west cork which was completely and deliberately and systematically obliterated after closure, which could never be reopened if there was ever a want for it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4423
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    end of the road wrote: »
    ready to go means the relevant requirements are in place for the line to be rebuilt and reopened.
    so the route, embankments, and most bridges etc.
    the line will have to be rebuilt of course, new track, drainage works etc but that is standard practice for a line that has been out of use for a good few years, and with most of the big infrastructure in place it is easy to do and the missing bridge can be built easily.



    at the opposite end of the scale you have as an example, the old line to west cork which was completely and deliberately and systematically obliterated after closure, which could never be reopened if there was ever a want for it.

    Yes of course but he was factually incorrect when he said all the bridges are there, What!!!! A Factually incorrect statement from the author of the West on Track report!!!! Good god we will have to have a peer review, mind you hats off to west on track this is the best bit of spoofing codology they have come up with in years. Problem is they have simply not got over the fact that the government reports weren't McCann Mark 2 Maybe that is what we should call the new West on Track report, McCann 2. Nahhh let's just call it the West on Track Report . It is a report written by a lobby group fair play to them but it is not a "peer review" it is not a government policy document and it will be seen for what it is a lobbyists report touting their POV, thats fine as long as all the TDs receiving it in the Dail today, apparently it is being handed out today see it for what it is.


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    #4424
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    This latest WOT document won't be taken seriously by the government, and indeed won't be seen as in any way unbiased -- the author has some history of public support for WOT.
    But this stroke by WOT is clever, it's designed to muddy the waters not only around the national rail review but also around the county development plans in galway and mayo.
    This WOT document won't get them a train, particularly one that can travel on the bits of track and over the bridges that aren't there, but it may delay decisions locally on the greenway, which is the purpose of the exercise.
    But it won't fool the people making the decisions in the Department and the EIB; their position was already made clear in the two official reports.


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    #4425
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    westtip wrote: »
    Yes of course but he was factually incorrect when he said all the bridges are there, What!!!! A Factually incorrect statement from the author of the West on Track report!!!! Good god we will have to have a peer review, mind you hats off to west on track this is the best bit of spoofing codology they have come up with in years. Problem is they have simply not got over the fact that the government reports weren't McCann Mark 2 Maybe that is what we should call the new West on Track report, McCann 2. Nahhh let's just call it the West on Track Report . It is a report written by a lobby group fair play to them but it is not a "peer review" it is not a government policy document and it will be seen for what it is a lobbyists report touting their POV, thats fine as long as all the TDs receiving it in the Dail today, apparently it is being handed out today see it for what it is.


    so he forgot a particular bridge was missing, sure it's a tad poor but not really a big deal.
    when you say see the report for what it is, really it's see it for what you want it to see, because the report could very much be actually accurate and much better then the last report.
    hard to dismiss a report that hasn't been published.
    eastwest wrote: »
    This latest WOT document won't be taken seriously by the government, and indeed won't be seen as in any way unbiased -- the author has some history of public support for WOT.
    But this stroke by WOT is clever, it's designed to muddy the waters not only around the national rail review but also around the county development plans in galway and mayo.
    This WOT document won't get them a train, particularly one that can travel on the bits of track and over the bridges that aren't there, but it may delay decisions locally on the greenway, which is the purpose of the exercise.
    But it won't fool the people making the decisions in the Department and the EIB; their position was already made clear in the two official reports.

    it's not designed to fool anyone, it's designed to put forward the facts and the case for reopening the line.
    rail reopening campaigns generally take a very very long time to gain any sort of traction, so the fact that governments staul is not any sort of surprise, it's to be expected.
    positions can change, after all it was position from 1976 to have no services on the WRC, then the ennis services were introduced after presssure, and then the through route was reopened, not to mention that some freight services operated on the line for a time, presumably which irish rail would have preferred to not have operated by that route.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4426
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    end of the road wrote: »
    so he forgot a particular bridge was missing, sure it's a tad poor but not really a big deal.

    That bridge was removed under licence. Therefore under the licence necessary funding for reinstating the bridge will be made available. The bridge will be replaced at no expense to CIE in a similar fashion if the rail was operational so in reality and economically the bridge is not an issue for reactivating the line. The bridge was removed to accommodate the widening of the N63 and would have happened regardless of the railway and its good that it was removed opening up the road.


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    #4427
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Personally I'm totally shocked that WOT's report 100% supports WOT's position.

    I mean its incredible that the report they paid for and wrote and had editorial control over said exactly what they want.

    Truly amazing!

    in other news, turkeys wrote a report saying christmas dinner is a bad idea


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    #4428
    ezstreet5
    Registered Users Posts: 356 ✭✭ezstreet5


    This report appears rather extensive. It will take awhile to review in detail, like the EY report did.


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    #4429
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    ezstreet5 wrote: »
    This report appears rather extensive. It will take awhile to review in detail, like the EY report did.
    The West on track document is big, but not extensive, if you know what I mean.
    It contains a lot of padding that would have probably been removed back in the author's working days when there would have been editorial oversight, it would have benefited from heavy editing. It contains loads of historical stuff that is interesting but irrelevant in the context of a lobbying document.
    Well produced though, with nice coloured pictures etc to make it attractive to TDs and councillors.
    Essentially, this is a West on track lobbying document that attempts to counter the poor figures on the ennis athenry investment by quoting figures for sections of the existing Dublin galway line. This has long been a bedrock of the WOT argument, so nothing new here.
    The other main plank of this WOT document is a grossly underestimated set of figures on the construction of a new railway from athenry to Claremorris, figures that don't reflect costs in Ireland in any way.
    It's hard to see what they're at with this document. It won't fool the department of transport or CIE, but maybe that's not their aim. It just has to persuade councillors that a railway is not only imminent, but that the predicted cost of that railway is just a hoax perpetuated by that crowd up in Dublin. Stalling investment on the western transport corridor until Sinn Fein gets into government appears to be the long plan.


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    #4430
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,987 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    eastwest wrote: »
    The West on track document is big, but not extensive, if you know what I mean.
    It contains a lot of padding that would have probably been removed back in the author's working days when there would have been editorial oversight, it would have benefited from heavy editing. It contains loads of historical stuff that is interesting but irrelevant in the context of a lobbying document.
    Well produced though, with nice coloured pictures etc to make it attractive to TDs and councillors.
    Essentially, this is a West on track lobbying document that attempts to counter the poor figures on the ennis athenry investment by quoting figures for sections of the existing Dublin galway line. This has long been a bedrock of the WOT argument, so nothing new here.
    The other main plank of this WOT document is a grossly underestimated set of figures on the construction of a new railway from athenry to Claremorris, figures that don't reflect costs in Ireland in any way.
    It's hard to see what they're at with this document. It won't fool the department of transport or CIE, but maybe that's not their aim. It just has to persuade councillors that a railway is not only imminent, but that the predicted cost of that railway is just a hoax perpetuated by that crowd up in Dublin. Stalling investment on the western transport corridor until Sinn Fein gets into government appears to be the long plan.


    CIE'S viewpoint doesn't matter really since they won't be the ones making the decisions and if the line is reopened, they will operate it as told to or they won't be paid.


    so whether they would or wouldn't be fooled, if the report was actually designed to fool people, which it wasn't, wouldn't really matter since they no longer have any say.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #4431
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    end of the road wrote: »
    CIE'S viewpoint doesn't matter really since they won't be the ones making the decisions and if the line is reopened, they will operate it as told to or they won't be paid.


    so whether they would or wouldn't be fooled, if the report was actually designed to fool people, which it wasn't, wouldn't really matter since they no longer have any say.

    The advice of CIE is always sought when developing rail projects, that's where most of the railway expertise lies in any case.
    In addition, Irish Rail is given a fixed subsidy, so they will naturally bring concerns to government if they think they will be asked to operate any new route that will disproportionately eat into that subsidy.


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    #4432
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Deleted User wrote: »
    in other news, turkeys wrote a report saying christmas dinner is a bad idea

    Here is a challenge to think what other great reports might be coming up

    Cadburys launch The Chocolate in excess is good for you report


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    #4433
    westtip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    end of the road wrote: »
    s

    hard to dismiss a report that hasn't been published.



    .

    It has been published, you not got a copy yet? Its very pretty, great production values, that make it look very "official" just lacks substance and is clearly a lobbyists document. It contains ther same old arguments we have heard time and time again, It's claims against the EY report are little short of farcical. It will carry very little credibility.
    end of the road wrote: »
    it's not designed to fool anyone, it's designed to put forward the facts and the case for reopening the line.
    .

    Hilarious!!!!! Oh and I wonder who paid for it, probably from party funds I would imagine. A quick call from the commanding officer in Claremorris to HQ in West Belfast could we have a few quid to undermine the government please.


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    #4434
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    westtip wrote: »
    Here is a challenge to think what other great reports might be coming up

    Cadburys launch The Chocolate in excess is good for you report


    A report written by BAT that shows the benefits of smoking?


    A report written by Donald trump explaining how he won the election?


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    #4435
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    eastwest wrote: »
    A report written by BAT that shows the benefits of smoking?


    A report written by Donald trump explaining how he won the election?

    How about a report that proposes reopening the canals to freight? It would certainly score on the zero carbon spectrum - particularly if it was horse drawn.


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    #4436
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    How about a report that proposes reopening the canals to freight? It would certainly score on the zero carbon spectrum - particularly if it was horse drawn.

    Could use shredded copies of the WOt report as bedding for the horses, would be even more environmentally friendly then!

    Reduce, Reuse, Recycle!


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    #4437
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    eastwest wrote: »
    The advice of CIE is always sought when developing rail projects, that's where most of the railway expertise lies in any case.
    In addition, Irish Rail is given a fixed subsidy, so they will naturally bring concerns to government if they think they will be asked to operate any new route that will disproportionately eat into that subsidy.


    What is this expertise of which you speak? Closing railways; de-manning stations; demolishing buildings; scrapping perfectly good locomotives and rolling stock.,,,,I could go on but what's the point....:rolleyes:

    ****



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    #4438
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Could use shredded copies of the WOt report as bedding for the horses, would be even more environmentally friendly then!

    Reduce, Reuse, Recycle!

    REFUSE (verb), Repair, reduce, recycle, Refuse (noun).


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    #4439
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    How about a report that proposes reopening the canals to freight? It would certainly score on the zero carbon spectrum - particularly if it was horse drawn.

    West on towpath has a nice ring to it


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    #4440
    eastwest
    Registered Users Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭eastwest


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    What is this expertise of which you speak? Closing railways; de-manning stations; demolishing buildings; scrapping perfectly good locomotives and rolling stock.,,,,I could go on but what's the point....:rolleyes:
    They have most of the expertise when it comes to building and maintaining railway infrastructure, and running train services. That's inarguable.


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    #4441
    ShaneC1600
    Registered Users Posts: 212 ✭✭ShaneC1600


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Could use shredded copies of the WOt report as bedding for the horses, would be even more environmentally friendly then!

    Reduce, Reuse, Recycle!

    Could also ask the council for the 5000 replicated copies of the greenway submission for the Development Plan. They will all need recycling fairly soon.


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