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Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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    #1262
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Gussie Scrotch wrote: »
    Its a long shot....why would she subsequently contact the Gardai? It would seem, in such a scenario, to be far safer to keep her head down.

    Rather than wait to be accused and then argue their innocence, guilty people will often volunteer their innocence to try get in ahead of any accusation.

    It's not too dissimilar to the oft-utilised "he who smelt it, dealt it" counter-argument of "he who denied it, supplied it".

    Of course I'm talking about farts, but the same behavioral science applies to murder.


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    #1263
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    el Fenomeno wrote: »
    Rather than wait to be accused and then argue their innocence, guilty people will often volunteer their innocence to try get in ahead of any accusation.

    It's not too dissimilar to the oft-utilised "he who smelt it, dealt it" counter-argument of "he who denied it, supplied it".

    Of course I'm talking about farts, but the same behavioral science applies to murder.
    the sentence is a lot different though


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    #1264
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    the sentence is a lot different though

    I don't drink very often, but if you ever decided to visit my house the morning after a feed of pints and a 3-in-1 from the Chinese, you might take that back.


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    #1265
    Mackwiss
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Mackwiss


    el Fenomeno wrote: »
    Rather than wait to be accused and then argue their innocence, guilty people will often volunteer their innocence to try get in ahead of any accusation.

    It's not too dissimilar to the oft-utilised "he who smelt it, dealt it" counter-argument of "he who denied it, supplied it".

    Of course I'm talking about farts, but the same behavioral science applies to murder.

    this right here! The weight of guilt would also mean why she keeps changing her story. Also a common trait in killers...


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    #1266
    el Fenomeno
    Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭el Fenomeno


    Mackwiss wrote: »
    this right here! The weight of guilt would also mean why she keeps changing her story. Also a common trait in killers...

    It also protects her in the future if someone else saw her near the bridge, or the scene of the crime.

    If she says nothing, volunteers no information and keeps her head down, and plenty of time passes - and no doubt several Gardaí appeals for anyone who was in the area also pass - and then it comes to light she was there, she's in trouble. If she's innocent, why not speak up and answer one of the appeals? Why wait until someone else says they saw her or accused her?

    Whereas if it comes to light that someone else saw her after she's already volunteered that she was there for a different reason, it's less damning.


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    #1267
    Gussie Scrotch
    Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    MF should be an actor. She speaks with conviction when she say it was bailey at Kilfeada bridge and is equally convincing when she withdraws her statement looking straight at the camera, no sign of anxiety or stress


    Yes, I noticed that too.....very hard to read. She might be lying....she might not.


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    #1268
    Gussie Scrotch
    Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Mackwiss wrote: »
    The other scenario that could implicate Bailey if that if it proves true he saw the lights at Alfies, and wanted to go to the party. Goes home. Wakes up in the middle of the night to go to Alfies to the "party" tries to open the gate and the confrontation happens.

    Though... as Jules mentioned, he would've hidden very well this situation. IB is an emotional man as one can see from so many interviews.. He is not a cold blooded killer able to hide something like this.

    Here's a killer being uncovered decades after the fact and just look at her reaction:
    https://youtu.be/WLSNPkf8RCU

    I would also like to point out these videos:

    Innocent until proven guilty: https://youtu.be/BemHqUqcpI8

    Stephen McDaniel's reaction when he found out during a live interview his crime was being uncovered (first 4 minutes of the video): https://youtu.be/HkRjIq8Cp2A

    Multiple killers pretending to be insane and an actual mentally unstable killer confessing it directly: https://youtu.be/Mwt35SEeR9w


    Was there a party at Alfie's house that night?


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    #1269
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Treppen


    el Fenomeno wrote: »
    It also protects her in the future if someone else saw her near the bridge, or the scene of the crime.

    If she says nothing, volunteers no information and keeps her head down, and plenty of time passes - and no doubt several Gardaí appeals for anyone who was in the area also pass - and then it comes to light she was there, she's in trouble. If she's innocent, why not speak up and answer one of the appeals? Why wait until someone else says they saw her or accused her?

    Whereas if it comes to light that someone else saw her after she's already volunteered that she was there for a different reason, it's less damning.

    Ya the mysterious person in the long black coat and beret across from her place of work just sounds a bit weird. It's almost like she was first told to implicate bailey.... Then to stick a beret on the mysterious guy to imply it was a Frenchman to say well if bailey didn't do it then it was a French assassin... But definitely not an Irish man.. shur he would have had shamrock on him.


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    #1270
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gussie Scrotch wrote: »
    Yes, I noticed that too.....very hard to read. She might be lying....she might not.
    i just saw in the netflix doc she lied again in baileys court action when the judge ordered her to name the man she was with. She gave a name but awrong name .I didn't know that. I would say she is a kind of female walter mitty type


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    #1271
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Gussie Scrotch wrote: »
    Was there a party at Alfie's house that night?
    I don't know but when bailey and jules were parked on the way home from the pub he suggested going to alfies as there might be a party. They went home.That was when he said he had a feeling something bad would happen that night


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    #1272
    Mackwiss
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭Mackwiss


    el Fenomeno wrote: »
    It also protects her in the future if someone else saw her near the bridge, or the scene of the crime.

    If she says nothing, volunteers no information and keeps her head down, and plenty of time passes - and no doubt several Gardaí appeals for anyone who was in the area also pass - and then it comes to light she was there, she's in trouble. If she's innocent, why not speak up and answer one of the appeals? Why wait until someone else says they saw her or accused her?

    Whereas if it comes to light that someone else saw her after she's already volunteered that she was there for a different reason, it's less damning.

    exactly... now the real question is... why? Is the supposed passenger with her even real? Surely if Sophie and MF knew each other it was known in Schull? Could the passenger know Alfie went to Alfie's place for whatever reason and the confrontation happens?

    MF for sure would've been ruled a suspect in any criminal investigation...


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    #1273
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    1. Has it ever been established and corroborated who exactly was in the car with Farrell that night? Or indeed if she was ever was in a car passing the bridge at all? So much about Farrell doesn't make any sense. Given that Bailey was resident in Schull for a number of years and Farrell was a shop owner, is it credible that she didn't know him even to see prior to the murder?

    2. The detective Garda that is highlighted in both documentaries does not come across well at all. Not assigning malice on him as that can't be proven, but he has an air of smugness about him that's hard to shake. Bailey certainly has an arrogance about him and I think it was two fairly narcissistic men sitting down opposite each other when he came to interview Bailey early doors. I think a personality clash ensued and it made the investigating Gardai more determined to nail Bailey. Certainly it's likely it created a situation where the Gardai felt like they couldn't back down to him and they went further down the rabbit hole.

    3. I think the whole town and area turned into the valley of the whispers. One of the Schull residents alluded to this where he said he went to the cops about someone he knew and looking back it was more or less him going loopy with the murder and the paranoia around.


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    #1274
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,709 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Gussie Scrotch wrote: »
    Was there a party at Alfie's house that night?

    And, if so, who was at it, what time did they leave, did they see anyone and, is it possible, a confrontation occurred?

    Or did any of them see Bailey on the road?

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #1275
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭bemak


    Isn't MF also one of the last people to see Sophie alive? Who's to say there wasn't an altercation between them in the shop that day!


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    #1276
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,569 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    listermint wrote: »
    To catch him ? Overall his film made the majority of viewers think he didn't do it. Which was at odds to the cork podcast which made many including me question bailey more.

    So if that is your assertion then Sheridan's editing was so poor people came out feeling sorry for the man .

    That's the complete opposite of what I took from the West Cork podcast - I assumed he did it before listening to it but when you hear all the evidence (or lack thereof) and contradictions laid out in a fairly neutral fashion, there no way he did it imo


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    #1277
    Gussie Scrotch
    Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yurt! wrote: »
    1. Has it ever been established and corroborated who exactly was in the car with Farrell that night? Or indeed if she was ever was in a car passing the bridge at all? So much about Farrell doesn't make any sense. Given that Bailey was resident in Schull for a number of years and Farrell was a shop owner, is it credible that she didn't know him even to see prior to the murder?

    2. The detective Garda that is highlighted in both documentaries does not come across well at all. Not assigning malice on him as that can't be proven, but he has an air of smugness about him that's hard to shake. Bailey certainly has an arrogance about him and I think it was two fairly narcissistic men sitting down opposite each other when he came to interview Bailey early doors. I think a personality clash ensued and it made the investigating Gardai more determined to nail Bailey. Certainly it's likely it created a situation where the Gardai felt like they couldn't back down to him and they went further down the rabbit hole.

    3. I think the whole town and area turned into the valley of the whispers. One of the Schull residents alluded to this where he said he went to the cops about someone he knew and looking back it was more or less him going loopy with the murder and the paranoia around.


    Agreed re the detective Garda, came across as dismissive and talked down to the interviewer whilst glossing over the appalling **** ups ( if they were ****-ups) made by the investigators, as "I don't claim to be perfect" etc. Was putting on an act.


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    #1278
    Weddings ahoy
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Weddings ahoy


    If MF was in the car that night and the mysterious man was with her, why has her husband never come forward with the name of the man , she has admitted to telling Chris everything eventually so what are we to believe she didn't tell him which ex lover she was with ??? If it were my spouse he wouldn't just let me away with saying i was driving with a man that night you don't know him so don't ask anymore! Therefore if it is true and i highly doubt it is why has no one spoken to her husband, why has no one pressured him into revealing the mystery man, and do her family know, parents siblings, none of mine would let me keep a secret in a huge murder mystery like that, they would disown me .


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    #1279
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Weddings ahoy wrote: »
    If MF was in the car that night and the mysterious man was with her, why has her husband never come forward with the name of the man , she has admitted to telling Chris everything eventually so what are we to believe she didn't tell him which ex lover she was with ??? If it were my spouse he wouldn't just let me away with saying i was driving with a man that night you don't know him so don't ask anymore! Therefore if it is true and i highly doubt it is why has no one spoken to her husband, why has no one pressured him into revealing the mystery man, and do her family know, parents siblings, none of mine would let me keep a secret in a huge murder mystery like that, they would disown me .


    At the 2014 trial it was revealed she has at different times given three different names (names in article) as to the companion that night.

    That's suss as f*ck in my view. The walkout from court when she was put under pressure by the judge about the identity - something doesn't smell right there.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30654781.html


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    #1280
    bemak
    Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭bemak


    Yurt! wrote: »
    At the 2014 trial it was revealed she has at different times given three different names (names in article) as to the companion that night.

    That's suss as f*ck in my view. The walkout from court when she was put under pressure by the judge about the identity - something doesn't smell right there.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30654781.html

    She moved away from Schull in the end to escape the attention. Can't imagine it's any better where she is now. Did she leave because of what she might have been involved in perhaps? If the man outside the shop, and on the bridge was fabricated; and possibly even the passenger in the car considering how the description/name of all three has changed numerous times, it would start to look like MF herself is a prime suspect in my eyes.


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    #1281
    Mackinac
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Mackinac


    SoulWriter wrote: »
    I don't know but when bailey and jules were parked on the way home from the pub he suggested going to alfies as there might be a party. They went home.That was when he said he had a feeling something bad would happen that night
    That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. I wonder if Sophie could see the gate from her bed - she had it raised on a platform so she could look out the window at Fastnet. If she saw a couple at the gate making a commotion/noise maybe she went down to investigate. If one of the couple were a woman she was probably less intimated and more likely to head down to see what was up. People rarely turn up to a party empty handed which might explain the bottle of wine in the ditch.


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    #1282
    Gussie Scrotch
    Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    Yurt! wrote: »
    At the 2014 trial it was revealed she has at different times given three different names (names in article) as to the companion that night.

    That's suss as f*ck in my view. The walkout from court when she was put under pressure by the judge about the identity - something doesn't smell right there.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30654781.html



    Absolutely right.....if the real identity is ever revealed, the whole picture will change, in my opinion.

    It is inconceivable that such an important detail has been allowed to be glossed over. And is the single most important question after the identity of the actual perpetrator.


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    #1283
    Gussie Scrotch
    Registered Users Posts: 838 ✭✭✭Gussie Scrotch


    bemak wrote: »
    She moved away from Schull in the end to escape the attention. Can't imagine it's any better where she is now. Did she leave because of what she might have been involved in perhaps? If the man outside the shop, and on the bridge was fabricated; and possibly even the passenger in the car considering how the description/name of all three has changed numerous times, it would start to look like MF herself is a prime suspect in my eyes.

    She claims they moved because of persistent hassle of her family by the Gardai.


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    #1284
    Treppen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,592 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Mackinac wrote: »
    That’s interesting, I didn’t know that. I wonder if Sophie could see the gate from her bed - she had it raised on a platform so she could look out the window at Fastnet. If she saw a couple at the gate making a commotion/noise maybe she went down to investigate. If one of the couple were a woman she was probably less intimated and more likely to head down to see what was up. People rarely turn up to a party empty handed which might explain the bottle of wine in the ditch.

    Was there a full unopened bottle of wine in the ditch?


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    #1285
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Treppen wrote: »
    Was there a full unopened bottle of wine in the ditch?
    yes. french wine worth 60 70 pounds. not available in off licences locally. available in airports duty free


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    #1286
    Mackinac
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Mackinac


    Treppen wrote: »
    Was there a full unopened bottle of wine in the ditch?

    Yes, an unopened expensive bottle of wine (60-70 Euro) was found in the bushes on a laneway not far from Sophie’s house in the months after her murder.


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    #1287
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mackinac wrote: »
    Yes, an unopened expensive bottle of wine (60-70 Euro) was found in the bushes on a laneway not far from Sophie’s house in the months after her murder.
    maybe the person who used her bath took it if it was in the house


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    #1288
    Mackinac
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Mackinac


    Just came across this regarding the wine, from The Independent, December,2011
    One source close to the investigation recalled that, at the time, alcohol was often stolen from the drinks cabinets of empty holiday homes.
    This takes me back again to thinking a couple having an affair might want to use the cottage for a couple of hours. Maybe they had a habit of going to empty holiday homes. Sophie thought someone had been using her cottage while she was away.


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    #1289
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Mackinac wrote: »
    Just came across this regarding the wine, from The Independent, December,2011
    One source close to the investigation recalled that, at the time, alcohol was often stolen from the drinks cabinets of empty holiday homes.
    This takes me back again to thinking a couple having an affair might want to use the cottage for a couple of hours. Maybe they had a habit of going to empty holiday homes. Sophie thought someone had been using her cottage while she away.


    A couple having an affair...hmmm


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    #1290
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 29,268 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Mackinac wrote: »
    Just came across this regarding the wine, from The Independent, December,2011
    One source close to the investigation recalled that, at the time, alcohol was often stolen from the drinks cabinets of empty holiday homes.
    This takes me back again to thinking a couple having an affair might want to use the cottage for a couple of hours. Maybe they had a habit of going to empty holiday homes. Sophie thought someone had been using her cottage while she away.

    Wouldn't there be some signs of forced entry?
    The holiday home would hardly be left unlocked while not in use...
    Unless they left a key somewhere or with someone \ tradesmen had copied a key?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #1291
    Mackinac
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Mackinac


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Wouldn't there be some signs of forced entry?
    The holiday home would hardly be left unlocked while not in use...
    Unless they left a key somewhere or with someone \ tradesmen had copied a key?

    I think back then a lot of holiday homes would have been fairly easy to get in to especially the more simple and basic (but stylised) ones in West Cork. I guess the flashier ones now have triple locked doors and smart security but not so much in 1996.


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