The Irish protocol.

downcow wrote: »

So we are saying both Irish and northern Irish identities, and indeed all identities in the world are estimated by polls surveying etc. So what is your point?

When challenged about where you were getting your numbers of Northern Irish, you said you never mentioned 'opinion polls'.


The 2011 census only showed 21% using that designation. Opinion polls since say it has risen. So where are you getting your data if it isn't from opinion polls.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He's doing a Jeffery, pivoting and spinning so the truth gets lost and can be walked away from when it suits. Like the 'couldn't guarantee to be peaceful' comment.

Watch for the blatant, "POINT OUT WHERE I SAID THAT", followed by him/her denying asking about checks between Newry and Dundalk by suggesting (s)he was, '"just asking questions" about it.

It's so transparent.

downcow wrote: »

It’s very logical and simple.
1) roi have played with our peace for their own interests with the protocol and Dublin is their capital city.
2) Eu have played with our peace for their own interests with the protocol and Dublin is the nearest Eu city

Seems silly to protest in Belfast when their is an Eu city an hour away

1) London played with our peace for their own interests

2) Unionist groups rallied behind London in this aim

3) If Britannia rules supreme there would only be one logical place to protest your ire at their decisions on your behalf.

This was an all island peace process, some of the parties involved chose to risk it all for something completely incompatible with the GFA & now you want to protest your leaders implementation of your democratic mandate in an EU capital that had no say in the initial decision?

Your leaders in Westminster could have avoided a border by remaining aligned to EU rules, Mays deal, perhaps protest that f up instead.

Speedline wrote: »

You deleted it but it was quoted in post #678.

The pivoting and wriggling gets tiresome. Poster won't stand over anything he says if it doesn't suit his current position. Has been unapologetically dis-ingenuous for a long time on here.

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Watch for the blatant, "POINT OUT WHERE I SAID THAT", followed by him/her denying asking about checks between Newry and Dundalk by suggesting (s)he was, '"just asking questions" about it.

It's so transparent.

downcow wrote: »

Show me where I said that.
I am not opposed to shareing out checks and that could mean some in this island (as there already are) but I don’t think I said it in recent posts

Your argument, Downcow, and that of some of unionist communities, are riddled with blatant contradictions:
(1) The whole premise of Brexit is that the UK "take back control", yet you expect these checks should be "shared" by the EU (on UK terms of course), but the reverse prospect that NI align with EU standards is abhorrent
(2) Argue that the passing of Brexit was an overall UK vote and thus must be implemented in NI, yet argue that the NIP, a fundamental part of the Brexit outcome, must not
(3) Protests that the NIP breaches the principle of consent, yet NI voted to remain in that same referendum they insist must be implemented
(4) The NIP is a breach of the GFA by the EU, yet the prospect that the UK exit the EU entirely on it's own terms does not
(5) The cries of harming the GFA now being used by the very same people who refused to sign it or even acknowledge it up until very recently
(6) That NI being treated differently to the rest of the UK is constitutionally damaging, yet are aghast that Westminster might enact a languages act, grant equal marriage status to same sex couples and allow women access to abortion services in line with the rest of the UK
(7) The NIP was negotiated equally between the UK and EU and was voluntarily signed by both sides, yet it's the EU who are solely, exclusively and entirely at fault in the eyes of some Unionists
(8) The UK governments signature is why the NIP must be implemented by the UK, yet it's the Irish government that should face the wrath of the anger
(9) The EU are laughed at regarding the prospect that identical goods need checks today that they didn't before even though they don't become suddenly poisonous or dangerous, yet when asked will the UK commit to maintaining the same standards today as they did before so that these checks are unnecessary, this suggestion is met with grave indignation
(10) We were told ad nauseum that "alternative arrangements" could allow for a completely seamless border between North and South and that the Irish need not worry, yet oddly none of these alternative arrangements seem to be suitable or even available in the identical scenario of an East-West border to deliver that same promise
(11) The UK can threaten to invoke Article 16 whenever it feels like it, but when the EU raises even the suggestion of doing the same, they are, in the words of one Arlene Foster, "despicable", "aggressive" and "shameful".

downcow wrote: »

Show me where I said that.
I am not opposed to shareing out checks and that could mean some in this island (as there already are) but I don’t think I said it in recent posts

Your questioning about not seeing any checks between Newry and Dundalk wasn't in any way a suggestion that they should be there, Downcow? Were you, 'just asking questions' about checks between Dundalk and Newry?

downcow wrote: »

It depends what you mean by a border?
If you are referring to checks then the vast majority of these can be dropped. Those that need to remain can take place in various ways and in various places. I done see any of them taking place between Dundalk and Newry. There are many other options.

It would be infuriating if it wasn't so hilariously predictable;

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Watch for the blatant, "POINT OUT WHERE I SAID THAT", followed by him/her denying asking about checks between Newry and Dundalk by suggesting (s)he was, '"just asking questions" about it.

It's so transparent.

CelticRambler wrote: »

Yet for some reason, the politicians you voted for, and your Prime Minister, and your unelected bureaucrat negotiator are saying No, nay, never ... and you think banging a Lambeg drum in Dublin will sort out the problem.

The aim of the people who want to come to Dublin to protest is to A) make a bit of an unusual scene that might attract headlines, and attract the ire of some Dublin's more questionable citizens so they can go back to their people and say, "Look at these Irish, these southerners. They hate us and they are who has elected this Irish Republic's government who so stubbornly insists on this destructive protocol."


Jamie Bryson's lot probably know they can't change things overnight, but they think they can gradually up the temperature until the fire is too big to ignore.

Jeffery taking a fair hammering on Twitter.

https://t.co/19G5Ky9HPY

So the ball played firmly (very firmly...PFO like) back into the UK court.

Steve Peers on Twitter: "EU statement - no renegotiation of the NI protocol https://t.co/Br6BkIRN9W" / Twitter

Well Boris played a blinder - backed the wrong horse three times. For him, getting brexit done the way he wanted required three things.

1. The EU backing down at the last second.

2. The EU throwing Ireland under the bus.

3. Trump winning re election.

The first two were never going to happen and the last one ended in the worst outcome for him - an Irish man in the white House.

I dont know if it should be chalked down to a completely warped sense of superiority, ignorance or just sheer stupidty that he thought this would play out any other way.

What is even more hilarious is that he does not seem to realise that Ireland is the only thing saving him from the EU actually dropping the hammer entirely.

He is caught between the EU and the US with no where to go.

But at the end of the day does he really care? Him and his buddies have made billions of this whole sham excerise.

I am not a northern Irish voter but I can tell you many Northern conservative Catholics would be tempted to vote unionist because of how hostile SF are to people of faith. Morals/faith come before nationalism.