Murder at the Cottage | Sky

Loafing Oaf · 06-07-2021 10:18am

EltonJohn69 wrote: »

Rat is a actually a traditional Christmas meal in Cork.

Not just any old rat for the Darina Allen types down there though

Ash.J.Williams · 06-07-2021 10:25am

My least favourite type of civilian are the type that deliberately mess up cases such as the lady that can’t make up her mind what/who she saw and then tried the “I’m sick of this “ and walked out of court , treasonous behaviour.

Gussie Scrotch · 06-07-2021 10:36am

EdHoven wrote: »

Do all these people live in the pub? They are either growing weed, smoking weed, drinking in a pub, drinking at home, having indoor affairs, having outdoor affairs or writing poetry.
It sounds dreadful.

Ha ha!

Brilliant observation.

Mackinac · 06-07-2021 10:38am

leath_dub wrote: »

I listened to that podcasr. Nicola Tallant and Donal McIntyre were all over the place with details, for example:

THey said Sophie had visited West Cork several times before her marriage (at lest 5 or 6 times). In fact it was stated elsewhere that Daniel Du Plantier had bought the cottage for his wife

Nicola Tallant said that Sophie had flown into Dublin Airport, hired a car and drve to Schull when it is fact that she flew into Cork

Nicola Tallant also stated the body was foind on the morning of December 21st

I wouldn't place much faith in any of the theories proposed in that podcast given how sloppily done it was

Yes getting basic facts like that wrong is very poor. Though I found the knife aspect interesting.

Gussie Scrotch · 06-07-2021 10:39am

john123470 wrote: »

Yes, a prodigious amount of drinking ..

They sobered up at Xmas to put up trees, clean the glasses, kill someone .. then straight back on it ... Twylight zone stuff

Ha ha!

Mackinac · 06-07-2021 10:43am

Does the area still attract as many bohemians today as it did in the 1990s or did the rising property prices etc change the face of who lives there now?

crackcrack30 · 06-07-2021 10:56am

Is Schull town twined by any chance?.....

https://youtu.be/a-tDnavDCwI

Henry... · 06-07-2021 10:56am

odyssey06 wrote: »

It was the in the week before Christmas.

When should he have been busy with turkey and Christmas trees... July???

His story about the tree and turkeys has been shot down imo

They didn't happen that way

leath_dub · 06-07-2021 10:58am

Mackinac wrote: »

Does the area still attract as many bohemians today as it did in the 1990s or did the rising property prices etc change the face of who lives there now?

I'd say you'd want to be a fairly well-to-do "bohemian" to be able to afford real estate in West Cork these days! Certainly anywhere near the coast

06-07-2021 11:00am

working my way through the West Cork podcast over past few days (nothing like an obsession!) but in Episode 7 ''The Arrest'' at about 28 minutes thereabouts, the change in Jules story re Ian getting out of bed surfaces during interrogation of Jules then Ian in the Garda station.

Ian is suddenly much less definite about everything at this point.
He says ''I don't know'' to questions from the podcasters.
The podcasters say that Jules had said something about Ian leaving the bed. The Gardai said it to Ian. And had mark on forehead.
He says ''I can't remember.... was that in her statement?''

This is a guy who studied for a Law degree to prove his innocence. A guy who has large boxes full of material about the case. A guy who according to the Shelleys was going over these stored materials obsessively. Who is still poking through them 25 years later in the documentaries.

And yet at this crucial turning point when his alibi is being shredded (he is going to now be proven to have been absent from his bed/house from 2/3 am until 9 or 10 am the following morning during which time a murder is committed locally) suddenly he is vague, cannot remember, doesn't know what was said in custody, is that in Jules' statements, etc?

I mean that is the moment one would remember most, surely? If completely innocent that is the oh fcuk moment, if guilty that is equally the oh fcuk moment. And yet all his definitude suddenly deserts him.

odyssey06 · 06-07-2021 11:01am

Henry... wrote: »

His story about the tree and turkeys has been shot down imo

They didn't happen that way

This is in the DPP report:
Virginia Oliver (Thomas) in her statement of 2 January 1997 states that “in relation to the scratches on Ian’s hand last week I can verify that Ian killed and plucked three turkeys on the Sunday before Christmas. Ian also climbed to the top of a tree to cut the top off to use as a Christmas tree. I did see his hands scratched when he came down the tree.”

The Sunday before Christmas was the 22nd December.

https://syndicatedanarchy.wordpress.com/2014/09/30/30/

coolisin · 06-07-2021 11:07am

Henry... wrote: »

Bailey was certainly very busy with turkeys and Christmas trees the day before the murder

I think I smell a rat there

Not at all, turkeys I have no experience with christmas trees loads!!
Growing up we put xmas trees at different points in Dec, once we didnt get an xmas tree until the 24th.
If your looking at this with 2021's xmas where tress go up in Nov almost you need to stop.

Now I've never climbed a spruce tree to cut the top off, but I've put them into cars and set them up and I have walked away with serious scratches look like a cat attacked me.

Im trying to be objective that he is innocent until actually proven guilty using Irish courts.

But from my own experience a Christmas type tree can scratch you up.

Also a farmer, the step daughter and the gardai do agree with his accounts his climbed a 20ft tree to cut the top off, probably half drunk at the time!

leath_dub · 06-07-2021 11:11am

Ian not welcome in some establishments in Schull:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1412330797797974019

Henry... · 06-07-2021 11:12am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

working my way through the West Cork podcast over past few days (nothing like an obsession!) but in Episode 7 ''The Arrest'' at about 28 minutes thereabouts, the change in Jules story re Ian getting out of bed surfaces during interrogation of Jules then Ian in the Garda station.

Ian is suddenly much less definite about everything at this point.
He says ''I don't know'' to questions from the podcasters.
The podcasters say that Jules had said something about Ian leaving the bed. The Gardai said it to Ian. And had mark on forehead.
He says ''I can't remember.... was that in her statement?''

This is a guy who studied for a Law degree to prove his innocence. A guy who has large boxes full of material about the case. A guy who according to the Shelleys was going over these stored materials obsessively. Who is still poking through them 25 years later in the documentaries.

And yet at this crucial turning point when his alibi is being shredded (he is going to now be proven to have been absent from his bed/house from 2/3 am until 9 or 10 am the following morning during which time a murder is committed locally) suddenly he is vague, cannot remember, doesn't know what was said in custody, is that in Jules' statements, etc?

I mean that is the moment one would remember most, surely? If completely innocent that is the oh fcuk moment, if guilty that is equally the oh fcuk moment. And yet all his definitude suddenly deserts him.

That was the standout moment for me early on

The guy just literally changes his tune when his partner incriminates him

Not buying his excuse for the scratches either

Still only half way through

Lillyfae · 06-07-2021 11:15am

EdHoven wrote: »

Do all these people live in the pub? They are either growing weed, smoking weed, drinking in a pub, drinking at home, having indoor affairs, having outdoor affairs or writing poetry.
It sounds dreadful.

West Cork was notorious for this at the time. Everyone growing their own weed, loads of (mainly British) new age hippies, artists etc etc. I doubt it's changed that much. The Gardaí couldn't give a flying f*ck about what any of them got up to either.

Henry... · 06-07-2021 11:44am

Halfway through this, came in with an open mind

So far Bailey is incredibly suspicious imo

Lied about the night

Major doubts about the scratches

Confessions

Alfie Lyons 90% sure they met

yourdeadwright · 06-07-2021 11:52am

Henry... wrote: »

Halfway through this, came in with an open mind

So far Bailey is incredibly suspicious imo

Lied about the night

Major doubts about the scratches

Confessions

Alfie Lyons 90% sure they met

Alfie Lyons had a long running dispute with Sophie nothing to serious but at the same time so for him to say she meet the prime suspect keeps him out of the picture , He was her neighbour & did have a dispute with her, Even if its only subconsciously in his head surely somewhere he'd think people could finger him for it ,

90% like you either introduced them or you didn't

Henry... · 06-07-2021 11:54am

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Alfie Lyons had a long running dispute with Sophie nothing to serious but at the same time so for him to say she meet the prime suspect keeps him out of the picture , He was her neighbour & did have a dispute with her, Even if its only subconsciously in his head surely somewhere he'd think people could finger him for it ,

90% like you either introduced them or you didn't

I thought Alfie Lyons is dodgy too every time he speaks

He gives off that vibe

Mackwiss · 06-07-2021 12:00pm

leath_dub wrote: »

Ian not welcome in some establishments in Schull:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1412330797797974019

I bet this will be national news by tomorrow

EltonJohn69 · 06-07-2021 12:03pm

leath_dub wrote: »

Ian not welcome in some establishments in Schull:

https://twitter.com/IanKennethBail1/status/1412330797797974019

People aren’t taking the fact that England are going to win the Euros well !

chooseusername · 06-07-2021 12:14pm

MoonUnit75 wrote: »

Her first statements after her arrest were probably the closest the gardai felt they ever got to solving the case. Before her arrest all they had was Bailey arriving home and going to bed with Jules for the night. After JT's interview they had:
- a statement showing his previous alibi was false
- that he had not only got out of bed, but had left the house
- that he had a cut on his forehead that wasn't there the night before
- that they had stopped on the way home on the night of the murder, after taking a detour, to 'admire the view' on a hill from where Sophie's house could be seen
- that Bailey had remarked that a light was on in Alfie's house while parked on the hill
- that he suggested they go over to Alfie's that night
- that JT's daughter gave a statement that they both left the house the following morning for around 2 hours when they said they were both at home

They may have seen Sophie's house and the light on in Alfie's house but
not from Hunt's Hill as she said.
They must have driven up the Kealfada road and onto the lane leading to Sophie's house to be able to see it.
As far as I can make out, there is no route they could have taken to be able to see the two houses from the road.

TP_CM · 06-07-2021 12:29pm

Henry... wrote: »

Halfway through this, came in with an open mind

So far Bailey is incredibly suspicious imo

Lied about the night

Major doubts about the scratches

Confessions

Alfie Lyons 90% sure they met

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive. Like he didn't even really know this girl and there were no anecdotes locally of him knowing her. He's in bed after a few drinks and I have to believe he got up, crossed the countryside somehow (how many miles) to kill this lady he didn't know in the freezing cold weather.

But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

Gussie Scrotch · 06-07-2021 12:42pm

TP_CM wrote: »

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive. Like he didn't even really know this girl and there were no anecdotes locally of him knowing her. He's in bed after a few drinks and I have to believe he got up, crossed the countryside somehow (how many miles) to kill this lady he didn't know in the freezing cold weather.

But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

No, probably not. The only plausible motive that has been suggested so far is the sexual one.

But your post did make me think about that angle.

Bailey was, from the outset, from the moment the news broke, super keen to get to the site, get involved and be seen to be involved.

Would a man who had murdered someone a few hours ago, be so anxious the involve himself, to make himself visible, to stick his head above the parapet?

Or would he be more likely to stay schtum, distance himself completely, keep his head down, given that at that point there was nothing whatsoever to make anyone suspect him?

Henry... · 06-07-2021 12:43pm

TP_CM wrote: »

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive. Like he didn't even really know this girl and there were no anecdotes locally of him knowing her. He's in bed after a few drinks and I have to believe he got up, crossed the countryside somehow (how many miles) to kill this lady he didn't know in the freezing cold weather.

But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

The motive would be that he knew of her and decided to pay a visit which went wrong and got angry

I'm trying to figure out if he's being deceptive about the murder

Caquas · 06-07-2021 12:46pm

TP_CM wrote: »

The only piece which was missing for me was a motive.

....
But it dawned on me the other night, of course the motive is him having the upper hand and being celebrated as the best investigative journalist who seems to be one step ahead of the rest. Would he be that desperate for attention/approval? Probably?

How was that going to work out for him? Hailed as the next Woodward/Bernstein but reviled as a murderer serving a life sentence!

Even if he is being framed the the Gardai, he should be ashamed of the sleazy fake news he wrote, claiming she was having lovers and wild parties in her cottage. How painful that must have been for her family in the days after her murder when they were shocked and grieving.

06-07-2021 12:49pm

Motive would be sex. It is a huge motive in such crimes.
Bailey, I am learning from the podcast, also was a fan of Aleister Crowley - why am I not surprised.

As for getting involved so visibly from the beginning and being so vocal instead of keeping schtum, I keep remembering that boy in Cork who was killed, Robert Holohan, and how his killer joined the search parties. He even complained to Garda about daylight hours being lost in the search due to briefings. And that went on for 8 long days. And all the time O' Donoghue knew where the boy's body was and what had happened.

Edited 12 to 8 days

Gussie Scrotch · 06-07-2021 12:52pm

isha wrote: »

Motive would be sex. It is a huge motive in such crimes.
Bailey, I am learning from the podcast, also was a fan of Aleister Crowley - why am I not surprised.

As for getting involved so visibly from the beginning and being so vocal instead of keeping schtum, I keep remembering that boy in Cork who was killed, Robert Holohan, and how his killer joined the search parties. He even complained to Garda about daylight hours being lost in the search due to briefings. And that went on for 12 long days. And all the time O' Donoghue knew where the boy's body was and what had happened.

Yes, fair point.

There are many such cases, the Soham murders spring to mid.

EdHoven · 06-07-2021 1:00pm

leath_dub wrote: »

I listened to that podcasr. Nicola Tallant and Donal McIntyre were all over the place with details, for example:

THey said Sophie had visited West Cork several times before her marriage (at lest 5 or 6 times). In fact it was stated elsewhere that Daniel Du Plantier had bought the cottage for his wife

Nicola Tallant said that Sophie had flown into Dublin Airport, hired a car and drve to Schull when it is fact that she flew into Cork

Nicola Tallant also stated the body was foind on the morning of December 21st

I wouldn't place much faith in any of the theories proposed in that podcast given how sloppily done it was

I think the story is she flew into Dublin and got a connecting flight to Cork.
Daniel TduP said she was flying back into Toulouse from Ireland on Christmas Eve on Aer Lingus. Maybe some AV geek could find out if there were flights from Dublin to Toulouse in 1996.
It seems to me all the research has gone into IB and obvious questions around the how and why of her visit are ignored.

06-07-2021 1:16pm

isha wrote: »

Motive would be sex. It is a huge motive in such crimes.
Bailey, I am learning from the podcast, also was a fan of Aleister Crowley - why am I not surprised.

As for getting involved so visibly from the beginning and being so vocal instead of keeping schtum, I keep remembering that boy in Cork who was killed, Robert Holohan, and how his killer joined the search parties. He even complained to Garda about daylight hours being lost in the search due to briefings. And that went on for 8 long days. And all the time O' Donoghue knew where the boy's body was and what had happened.

Edited 12 to 8 days

Don't recall that. What part of the podcast do you rememeber?

06-07-2021 1:20pm

SoulWriter wrote: »

Don't recall that. What part of the podcast do you rememeber?

Just finished part 9, so it was either in part 8 or 9. He used to carry around a book by Crowley.

Murder at the Cottage | Sky

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