Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I really recommend the interview rather then the article on the same page. You can also read a letter he wrote to the Irish Times years back in 2003.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/symphysiotomy-and-caesarean-section-1.362862

Peter Boylan this time? What, couldn't find an editorial from David Quinn so used his sockpuppet anti-abortion doctor?

Anyway, let's put aside the symphisiotomy discussion -We went down this rabbit hole because you used an article talking about symphisotomy surgeries that pointed out that some of the women confused episiotomy with it. Fine. About 1/3 didn't have this particular surgery (episiotomy is also frowned on in most modern medical care, but this is Ireland, which has low standards.)

Does this in ANY way exonerate what went on in the Mother and Baby homes? Did the babies that were sold to America not get sold? Did the women who died in them not die? Were they not abused by their captors? Did not the Nund do the horrible things I highlighted some days back with just 30 seconds of searching through the report?

Or is your argument, "some were, some might have misremembered." If so, I counter with, the delaying tactics used by the RCC and its apologists like you and the greyhound-abuse-denier on this thread, might contributed to elderly women misremembering as it took 5 *years* for this inept commission to produce its widely ridiculed report.

TheChizler wrote: »

Peter Boylan was one of the main faces of the repeal campaign, not sure who you're thinking of.

My bad. I apologize for that part of my post

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

It is extraordinary how imprisoned people are by ideology. I mean if Peter Boylan was a reincarnation of Archbishop McQuaid it shouldn't matter given the extraordinary statistics in favour of symphisiotomy quoted in that Irish Times letter he wrote.

I dont think any babies were sold. I think there were abuses but I don't think every one experienced them.

From what I can see nearly all the worst abuses occurred before entering the home or after, to children who fostered out.

The RCC isnt delaying anyone. They have dont nothing either way. They were never against the Commission. They provided the records they had.

Time and time again you have to be educated. Time and time again you deny the obvious.

"From what I can see...." You refuse to open your eyes. Sad.

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The RCC isnt delaying anyone. They have dont nothing either way. They were never against the Commission. They provided the records they had.

https://www.thejournal.ie/commission-finds-burial-remains-of-up-to-42-infants-at-former-mother-and-baby-home-5322538-Jan2021/

More than 900 children died in Bessborough or in hospital after being transferred from Bessborough. Despite very extensive inquiries and searches, the Commission was able to establish the burial place of only 64 children.
In its final report published today, the Commission said “it remains perplexed and concerned at the inability of any member of the Congregation of the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary to identify the burial place of the children who died in Bessborough. “The concern of the congregation about marking the graves of the children who died in Castlepollard does not seem to have applied to the children who died in Bessborough.”.

Children's minister urged to accept alternative review of mother and baby homes report (irishexaminer.com)

Children's Minister Roderic O'Gorman has been urged to accept an alternative review of the mother and baby homes commission report to "give some balance to the story told".

Rewriting the executive summary of the final commission report, a group of 25 experts has found that mother and baby home residents were subjected to involuntary detention, forced labour, and illegal adoption.

The authors say they "profoundly disagree" with the commission report’s findings and approach and have put forward alternative conclusions.

Speaking at the launch, University of Birmingham researcher Máiréad Enright, who was among the 25 experts who worked on the alternative report, found that the commission could have come to very different conclusions using the same information.

Ms Enright said the commission's conclusions often found that there was very little or no evidence of failings such as forced adoption when the report itself contains strong details to the contrary.

"When you dig into their analysis more deeply, it becomes clear that, in a lot of cases, the framing of how they've interpreted the facts is more important than the volume of such," said Ms Enright.

The authors are now encouraging feedback before they publish a final alternative to the commission's report.

Great work being done by the following people.

Máiréad Enright, Reader in Law, University of Birmingham

Prof Aoife O’Donoghue, Law School, Durham University

Aoife Price, National University of Ireland, Galway

Clíona de Bhailís, National University of Ireland, Galway 

Maria Ní Fhlatharta, National University of Ireland, Galway 

Sahar Ahmed, Trinity College Dublin

Dr Aisling McMahon, Associate Professor, Maynooth University

Dr Aoife Daly, Lecturer in Law, University College Cork

Dr Ciara Fitzpatrick, Lecturer in Law, Ulster University

Dr Deirdre McGowan, Senior Lecturer, Technological University Dublin

Dr FergusRyan, Associate Professor in Law, Maynooth University

Dr Fiona Donson, Senior Lecturer in Law, University College Cork

Dr Helen Kehoe, Solicitor

Dr James Gallen, Associate Professor of Law, Dublin City University

Dr Kieran Walsh, Senior Lecturer in Law, Portsmouth University

Dr Louise Kennefick, Associate Professor, Maynooth University

Dr Lydia Bracken, Assistant Dean, University of Limerick

Dr Lynsey Black, Assistant Professor of Law, Maynooth University

Dr Maebh Harding, Lecturer in Law, University College Dublin

Dr Michelle Farrell, Reader in Law, Liverpool University

Dr Phil Mullen, Assistant Professor in Sociology, Trinity College Dublin

Dr Samantha Morgan-Williams, Lecturer in Law, University College Cork

Dr Vicky Conway, Associate Professor of Law, Dublin City University

Prof Eilionóir Flynn, Centre for Disability Law and Policy, NUI Galway

Prof Shane Darcy, National University of Ireland, Galway

"We all pay." No, you don't. If everyone's to blame, no one is to blame. I have a non-monetary solution: Remove any special treatment for the RCC from the Irish Constitution and government. Remove government support from any RCC run activities.

Funny how the Canadians are coming to grips with a similar circumstance quite quickly. Not here, though. Lets spend money on poorly done reports (a feature of the Irish government throughout its history).

Healing and redress starts with the truth. The truth. Every academic and survivor agrees with this basic ask.

You have no idea what the experts and academics have been fighting for - they have a much broader and informed view than you ever will have despite what you read in the Journal comments.

A good read on the history of M&B homes in Ireland

https://bit.ly/3fqClq6

Nice gesture in the Tuam mother and Baby home

Mother and Baby site covered with white crosses as campaign for excavation continues | Tuam Herald

Mother and Baby site covered with white crosses as campaign for excavation continues

Part of the former Mother and Baby Home site in Tuam was filled with hundreds of small white crosses on Saturday morning, each one bearing the name of one of the 796 infants who died at the home but for whom no burial records exist.