New 2021 Assistant Principal in the Civil Service

Thanks for the information. Is there an internal competition running also? I wasn't eligible for internal last time, but I could do the double-shot this time.

Cheeseplant wrote: »

From the booklet:
This open competition is being conducted in parallel with an interdepartmental promotional
competition for this grade for eligible serving civil servants. Existing eligible civil servants are permitted
to apply and to sit the selection tests/interviews etc. only once even if applying for both competitions

Also got notification in office that an AP Higher Interdepartmental competition is likely to be held in Q3 2021 confined to those at AP Standard level at the time of competition and for the top 160 after Stage 1 of this 2021 AP competition so in interests to apply for this if not at the grade at the time of advertisement.

sunny7700 wrote: »

Anyone able to download the PDF application? I've tried through chrome/ microsoft edge and on a different devices but doesnt seem to work.

Maybe its a sign, not sure if I'm ready for more rejection just yet

I eventually got it to work on second device. I've found with these in the past, it won't open directly. You need to go into your Downloads folder and open it from there

It's very similar to other years in terms of 3 questions and one about yourself

sunny7700 wrote: »

Any chance someone could pm a blank PDF application form? Its still not working and tried accessing it through my downloads folder. I'm working from home and then on leave for 2 weeks, so I wont have a chance to try and download it in work.

Thanks,

sure, PM me your email. When in Downloads folder, I also right clicked and selected Open With Adobe Acrobat Reader DC, worked for me

Would there be many APs in Cork?

From reading the booklet this looks like a Dublin only competition. They have panels in place for all of the counties except Dublin from last years competition which they want to use up before they start taking people from this new competition. This really sucks if you don’t want to go to Dublin !

“Candidates should note that there are currently panels in place for all counties (excluding Dublin) from the 2020 Assistant Principal Officer Standard Open competition and these panels are due to expire in March 2022, if not exhausted in the interim. New panels from this 2021 Assistant Principal Officer Standard Open competition will be formed on a demand led basis and where 2020 panels are exhausted.
It is not envisaged that appointments will be made from this competition after 31 July 2023.”

Cheeseplant wrote: »

But means any regional panels created from this comp will be used between March 2022 and July 23 so there is still hope for regional candidates. I'd also argue that WFH arrangements into the future would mean a "Dublin" job could be done in a regional office/hub/home situation a few days a week.

That’s true but it will take a lot longer for regional candidates to get placed this time around.

The WFH arrangements will depend on what department but it’s definitely an option.

FenFlynn wrote: »

Surprised at how soon they opened up this competition, I wasn't expecting it until at least March 2022.

I'm going to give this a go as well even though I've only started as an AO a few months ago. It took me 4 years to get the AO, so going to start trying for the AP, and hope to get it after a few goes.
I've a question on the application form part B, is it better to give one example each for the three competency questions? Or just outline in bullet points any experience I may have had? The application form always gets me, anytime there is shortlisting based on Application Form, I generally failed to go through. TIA.

I would go with one example for each and make it detailed to make sure it covers all of the competencies they are looking for.

FenFlynn wrote: »

Great, thanks for that. Now to come up with something strong enough that can be used if called forward to stage 2 is the tricky part.

It would be worth checking out the thread on last years AP competition. It has a lot of information and some of the posters there will have plenty of ideas of what points PAS are looking for.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058197595

Vologda69 wrote: »

I did fairly well in the numerical and verbal for AP 2020 competition. However I failed the situational judgement by 1 mark. I think I was a bit harsh in how I ranked the answers. Any tips on how to approach them this time around.

I got caught out in the 2020 competition on the management scenario as part of the video interviews by 5 marks. I have more experience this time so I’ll give it a go again.

I used job test prep the last time and I found it really helpful with the first round of tests.

Brera wrote: »

I got caught out in the 2020 competition on the management scenario as part of the video interviews by 5 marks. I have more experience this time so I’ll give it a go again.

I used job test prep the last time and I found it really helpful with the first round of tests.

I was caught out in the Leadership part of stage 2 but passed the other competencies. We should compare notes!!!

Brera wrote: »

Regional hubs will work once they kit them out properly and pay for people to run them.

I’m waiting to see what the union look for. I know they want flexi time restored for everyone. Which I don’t see happening. How could you do it when people are working from home.

The idea of remote working could be used as an incentive to ‘change working practices’ that way not everyone would not be stuck on a public desk or do they go with giving an allowance for those jobs that can’t be done remotely. It’s going to be interesting to see how it works out.

For any private sector worker thinking the Civil Service will lead WFH in the future, I have to say I am not impressed with the current arrangement. Due to “local arrangements” your manager can say what they want. I feel pressure to go in despite being unvaccinated because a colleague is going in and being “seen”. Also my colleagues left and retired during the pandemic so I have to go in and onboard new middle management despite being a lower grade. Happened in my last Department too last year. Upper grades treat lower grades like crap in the CS. No credit given. Found myself being left out of important messages after that. Due to failed decentralization in the last decade we are suffering. Also us lower grades had flexi taken away from us during the pandemic. Very unfair, I could be on late one evening for a ministerial briefing and get no time in lieu. I found flexi great as it used to let me build up a half day a month to do something nice with the kids. Had that taken away from me. As the private sector is now becoming much more flexible than the public service. Many private companies have told my neighbors they can work from home down the country permanently now. They have even bought a house.

I would advise against public service. They are slow to implement positive change and HR in most departments is non-existent. Why waste your time applying for this when you can work from an Italian beach in the private sector for more money! I have been in the public service years now a feel stuck tbh. This is just my advice for those who are able to get opportunities in the private sector. If you have a chance there, take it rather than waste time here.

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

AP grade has never had flexi time.

General Council Report No. 1367 back in 2000 extended flexi time to AP grade - on a case by case basis, each department their own rules, etc. The Haddington Road Agreement withdrew the option for all new APs since 2013. (similar to how the old teachers voted to reduce pay for new teachers following the 2008/2009 recession).

As private becomes more flexible, the public becomes less understanding. Its just my view as the issue was mentioned earlier and the applicant thought the public service would be WFH. Its not guaranteed.

BainMarie wrote: »

For any private sector worker thinking the Civil Service will lead WFH in the future, I have to say I am not impressed with the current arrangement. Due to “local arrangements” your manager can say what they want. I feel pressure to go in despite being unvaccinated because a colleague is going in and being “seen”. Also my colleagues left and retired during the pandemic so I have to go in and onboard new middle management despite being a lower grade. Happened in my last Department too last year. Upper grades treat lower grades like crap in the CS. No credit given. Found myself being left out of important messages after that. Due to failed decentralization in the last decade we are suffering. Also us lower grades had flexi taken away from us during the pandemic. Very unfair, I could be on late one evening for a ministerial briefing and get no time in lieu. I found flexi great as it used to let me build up a half day a month to do something nice with the kids. Had that taken away from me. As the private sector is now becoming much more flexible than the public service. Many private companies have told my neighbors they can work from home down the country permanently now. They have even bought a house.

I would advise against public service. They are slow to implement positive change and HR in most departments is non-existent. Why waste your time applying for this when you can work from an Italian beach in the private sector for more money! I have been in the public service years now a feel stuck tbh. This is just my advice for those who are able to get opportunities in the private sector. If you have a chance there, take it rather than waste time here.

A lot depends of what department your based in.There does seem to be a complete lack of direction or a plan on how remote working and hubs should work. They have been ridiculously slow in ordering equipment to let people work from home. They do have a working group in mine that has looked into remote working and they have recommend it should stay and senior management want it to stay.

I do feel for it to work though there’s need to be a cross departmental approach. Social Protection for example has offices all over the place and they could be used as hubs for staff from other departments.

I find the local HR sections are useless. They don’t bother doing much until DPER act. I can’t understand why flexi was taken away for those who are actually going into the office. It’s extremely unfair.

Decentralisation was definitely a missed opportunity.

In my section we have a new AP and PO and the change is remarkable. They are really engaging and will take on board new ideas and are full of credit for anyone that does a good job.

I actually think now is actually the best time to join the CS. There are large numbers of the old guard on the way out and lots of new blood coming in which will change the culture for the better.

Don’t know how to follow on the new board - so just putting a place marker here

Any tips for how to make your examples in the application form sound more professional? I sound like I'm giving out in mine, whereas I want to sound more objective/impartial.

Struggling with the form myself. Finding it hard to put anything concrete down as the first 2 questions cover a lot of subheadings. I think a clear head is needed to have them questions filled, only a few days left before closing date and I'm already panicking.

lucat and taato, could you not use last year's application form? I presume they'd be quite similar if not identical.

Hi folks

Does anyone use the Supplementary Information box, and if so what do you include?

Cheers

Presume there's still no way around having to copy and paste? The whole entering 'every period of time since leaving college' every time you apply for something is nuts, don't know why they can't save it to your profile but I guess they don't want it to be too easy to apply. Not sure its worth the time it would take up for such a long shot as its generally people already working at a similar level who the comp seems geared for

I think thats very unfortunate that this has been your experience. I would imagine there are not too many in the private sector working from a beach in Italy and particularly in similar circumstance as your self with children. I personally think having worked in the private sector and having been self employed that the CS is the most flexible family friendly working environment that I have ever worked for. Im not sure why you think some of your colleagues are just attending the office to "be seen" either, perhaps they prefer the office environment to work at. In fact there could be a tonne of reasons why they attend the office ....I know what mine are. I do not understand why you consider yourself a lower grade at all. Go for this AP comp be the higher grade and then you can make the difference that you think needs to be made. And from my experience as a starter clerical officer I never felt I was a lower grade ... you are employed at a role and grade that you agree with. Do what you have to do to get higher if that is what you want. I have never personally felt that higher grades treated lower grades like crap. In respect of Flexi no one predicted that Covid would have had such an impact on our working lives, most Departments have had had huge flexibility in respect of working from home and hours etc, if you happen to be in a section that requires ministerial briefings then perhaps thats your job and what you are paid to do. If you are in the Public Service for years now and feel stuck thats unfortunate and perhaps you should heed your own advice take an opportunity in the private sector. From my experience the flexi time will be the least of your worries ! I am only making my comments in a bid to balance yours. I personally would advise absolutely everyone that is interested to just go for it...

You already know how the promotion system and personal advancement work in the public sector and claim you don't get credit for stuff you do do - so, why, then, do you feel "pressure" to go in to the office, just because someone else is?

Being treated like crap/no credit given? That's on individual managers, perhaps the culture in one single organisation. I had one manager so bad I requested a transfer, I'd another I knew was on their way out so stuck it out (and got credit from other managers for putting up with that one!) In addition to the two notably poor managers mentioned, I've had some decent and some really excellent managers, who've gone out of their way to advance people, including direct mentoring, interview prep, etc. Take some personal responsibility, maybe, and claim the credit you're owed, look for mentorship, etc.?

Losing the opportunity to work up 1.5 days flexi in Haddington was stupid and retrograde, but that was HRA. Many departments have already put flexi back in place for office-based workers. If you are working late and putting in extra hours because of ministerial briefings, or whatever, guess what - you're entitled to either overtime, or time off in lieu! 🙄

Thanks so much Taato. I couldn't find it earlier last week. Cheers :)

I know a couple of people who did it. I tried to do it myself four years ago but I failed, but the experience stood to me for the HEO competition a few months later. So go for it :)