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New 2021 Assistant Principal in the Civil Service

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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,323 ✭✭✭✭Rikand


    BainMarie wrote: »
    For any private sector worker thinking the Civil Service will lead WFH in the future, I have to say I am not impressed with the current arrangement. Due to “local arrangements” your manager can say what they want. I feel pressure to go in despite being unvaccinated because a colleague is going in and being “seen”. Also my colleagues left and retired during the pandemic so I have to go in and onboard new middle management despite being a lower grade. Happened in my last Department too last year. Upper grades treat lower grades like crap in the CS. No credit given. Found myself being left out of important messages after that. Due to failed decentralization in the last decade we are suffering. Also us lower grades had flexi taken away from us during the pandemic. Very unfair, I could be on late one evening for a ministerial briefing and get no time in lieu. I found flexi great as it used to let me build up a half day a month to do something nice with the kids. Had that taken away from me. As the private sector is now becoming much more flexible than the public service. Many private companies have told my neighbors they can work from home down the country permanently now. They have even bought a house.

    I would advise against public service. They are slow to implement positive change and HR in most departments is non-existent. Why waste your time applying for this when you can work from an Italian beach in the private sector for more money! I have been in the public service years now a feel stuck tbh. This is just my advice for those who are able to get opportunities in the private sector. If you have a chance there, take it rather than waste time here.

    Flexi will come back though. it has to with the core hours system and everything else in place. Our place has more or less said they expect everyone back on the clock as normal from around mid August and the department beside us have been told more or less the same. If your department is trying to do away with flexi entirely, I'd check with your union representative to see if they are allowed to do this. I would bet they arent.

    Your experience of not receiving credit though is not the same as mine. Even when I was a CO, I received a lot of personal credit for doing a job well done. Not all civil service departments are the same and I'm sorry to hear that yours has been generally negative for you. My own personal experience of the civil service has been nothing short of brilliant


  • Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Brera


    BainMarie wrote: »
    For any private sector worker thinking the Civil Service will lead WFH in the future, I have to say I am not impressed with the current arrangement. Due to “local arrangements” your manager can say what they want. I feel pressure to go in despite being unvaccinated because a colleague is going in and being “seen”. Also my colleagues left and retired during the pandemic so I have to go in and onboard new middle management despite being a lower grade. Happened in my last Department too last year. Upper grades treat lower grades like crap in the CS. No credit given. Found myself being left out of important messages after that. Due to failed decentralization in the last decade we are suffering. Also us lower grades had flexi taken away from us during the pandemic. Very unfair, I could be on late one evening for a ministerial briefing and get no time in lieu. I found flexi great as it used to let me build up a half day a month to do something nice with the kids. Had that taken away from me. As the private sector is now becoming much more flexible than the public service. Many private companies have told my neighbors they can work from home down the country permanently now. They have even bought a house.

    I would advise against public service. They are slow to implement positive change and HR in most departments is non-existent. Why waste your time applying for this when you can work from an Italian beach in the private sector for more money! I have been in the public service years now a feel stuck tbh. This is just my advice for those who are able to get opportunities in the private sector. If you have a chance there, take it rather than waste time here.

    A lot depends of what department your based in.There does seem to be a complete lack of direction or a plan on how remote working and hubs should work. They have been ridiculously slow in ordering equipment to let people work from home. They do have a working group in mine that has looked into remote working and they have recommend it should stay and senior management want it to stay.

    I do feel for it to work though there’s need to be a cross departmental approach. Social Protection for example has offices all over the place and they could be used as hubs for staff from other departments.

    I find the local HR sections are useless. They don’t bother doing much until DPER act. I can’t understand why flexi was taken away for those who are actually going into the office. It’s extremely unfair.

    Decentralisation was definitely a missed opportunity.

    In my section we have a new AP and PO and the change is remarkable. They are really engaging and will take on board new ideas and are full of credit for anyone that does a good job.

    I actually think now is actually the best time to join the CS. There are large numbers of the old guard on the way out and lots of new blood coming in which will change the culture for the better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 930 ✭✭✭tgdaly


    How common is it to jump from EO straight to AP? I'd imagine it doesn't happen very often. Anyways I'm giving this a go for the experience, should hopefully stand to me for the next HEO/AO



  • Registered Users Posts: 507 ✭✭✭Sinus pain


    Don’t know how to follow on the new board - so just putting a place marker here



  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭taato


    I don’t think it is very common, but it certainly can and does happen so just go for it. And as you say it’s great experience for future competitions if it doesn’t pan out.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭lucat


    Any tips for how to make your examples in the application form sound more professional? I sound like I'm giving out in mine, whereas I want to sound more objective/impartial.



  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭taato


    I’m still living in ever decreasing hope on the 2020 competition, having just done the etray last week (wasn’t at all happy with my performance tbh), so i’ll be filling out the 2021 application form in the coming days.

    My plan is to offer brief overviews with what i did and outcomes with facts and figures where possible. Not sure how much weight is attributed to the form tbh, once you jump through the selection hoops and perform solidly across the competencies in final interview. It’s a marathon.



  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭FenFlynn


    Struggling with the form myself. Finding it hard to put anything concrete down as the first 2 questions cover a lot of subheadings. I think a clear head is needed to have them questions filled, only a few days left before closing date and I'm already panicking.

    lucat and taato, could you not use last year's application form? I presume they'd be quite similar if not identical.



  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭taato


    Yup, that’s the plan, i will certainly be copying and pasting and just tweaking to inc a couple of brief updates since last year’s form.



  • Registered Users Posts: 553 ✭✭✭brownbinman


    Hi folks

    Does anyone use the Supplementary Information box, and if so what do you include?

    Cheers



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  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭Cheeseplant


    yep.. don't leave blanks! I discussed network development and policy work that i had been involved in. In the other section i looked at the booklet and tried to address the main AP role points; budgets, projects that weren't covered in the previous 3 sections etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 392 ✭✭strawdog



    Presume there's still no way around having to copy and paste? The whole entering 'every period of time since leaving college' every time you apply for something is nuts, don't know why they can't save it to your profile but I guess they don't want it to be too easy to apply. Not sure its worth the time it would take up for such a long shot as its generally people already working at a similar level who the comp seems geared for



  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭res1


    I have seen this happen. My advice would be to take every opportunity you can.. believe in yourself..if you are a worker you are probably as good as anyone else thats been lucky enough to get through AP comps. Best of Luck



  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭res1


    I think thats very unfortunate that this has been your experience. I would imagine there are not too many in the private sector working from a beach in Italy and particularly in similar circumstance as your self with children. I personally think having worked in the private sector and having been self employed that the CS is the most flexible family friendly working environment that I have ever worked for. Im not sure why you think some of your colleagues are just attending the office to "be seen" either, perhaps they prefer the office environment to work at. In fact there could be a tonne of reasons why they attend the office ....I know what mine are. I do not understand why you consider yourself a lower grade at all. Go for this AP comp be the higher grade and then you can make the difference that you think needs to be made. And from my experience as a starter clerical officer I never felt I was a lower grade ... you are employed at a role and grade that you agree with. Do what you have to do to get higher if that is what you want. I have never personally felt that higher grades treated lower grades like crap. In respect of Flexi no one predicted that Covid would have had such an impact on our working lives, most Departments have had had huge flexibility in respect of working from home and hours etc, if you happen to be in a section that requires ministerial briefings then perhaps thats your job and what you are paid to do. If you are in the Public Service for years now and feel stuck thats unfortunate and perhaps you should heed your own advice take an opportunity in the private sector. From my experience the flexi time will be the least of your worries ! I am only making my comments in a bid to balance yours. I personally would advise absolutely everyone that is interested to just go for it...



  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭caarp


    Hi guys, this is off topic and apologies in advance for my question, as it isn't related to this competition but I recognise some familiar names from a previous thread who were on the Inter-D HEO competition. I was wondering if anyone had been able to access that thread since the changeover? I can't find the thread at all and it's been very helpful. MTIA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    You already know how the promotion system and personal advancement work in the public sector and claim you don't get credit for stuff you do do - so, why, then, do you feel "pressure" to go in to the office, just because someone else is?

    Being treated like crap/no credit given? That's on individual managers, perhaps the culture in one single organisation. I had one manager so bad I requested a transfer, I'd another I knew was on their way out so stuck it out (and got credit from other managers for putting up with that one!) In addition to the two notably poor managers mentioned, I've had some decent and some really excellent managers, who've gone out of their way to advance people, including direct mentoring, interview prep, etc. Take some personal responsibility, maybe, and claim the credit you're owed, look for mentorship, etc.?

    Losing the opportunity to work up 1.5 days flexi in Haddington was stupid and retrograde, but that was HRA. Many departments have already put flexi back in place for office-based workers. If you are working late and putting in extra hours because of ministerial briefings, or whatever, guess what - you're entitled to either overtime, or time off in lieu! 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭caarp


    Thanks so much Taato. I couldn't find it earlier last week. Cheers :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11 katie1920


    Any info on how many positions will arise from this panel and how many applications do they normally get?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,760 ✭✭✭Aglomerado


    I know a couple of people who did it. I tried to do it myself four years ago but I failed, but the experience stood to me for the HEO competition a few months later. So go for it :)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Hi all,

    Do all new entrants start at the bottom of the scale? Or do they take into account management experience elsewhere?

    Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭taato


    All newbies start on point one unless serving civil servants on a higher rate (not common) AFAK



  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭Cheeseplant


    Yep, I think if you are in public sector/CS already on a salary higher than the 1st point then you will be matched to the closest point on the scale. Otherwise starting point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    I suggest you read the booklet, which answers this and many more basic questions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31 Flappidyflap


    Hey. Filling in the application... Do you have to give salary levels for each employer. Seems pointless and just nosey as not like youre able to negotiate...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    They stopped asking for salary levels years ago, don't tell me they've started again?! As you say - pointless. Also, a breach of GDPR. Your salary has no impact on your ability to do a job and can't figure in your shortlisting or marking at a later stage, so under GDPR, they shouldn't be asking for it!



  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭lucat


    I've never once mentioned salary. The way it's phrased on the form is very casual "description of duties, salary, etc." So I treat it as a casual request which I'm free to ignore!



  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭lucat


    Haven't been able to log in for days with this changeover!


    The problem is that I've only done one or two projects in my career and because they were communications projects they're almost impossible to put numbers to. They're mad for project work examples and it does them and us a disservice.

    I submitted the form this evening anyway so we'll see. Do we have any idea of when stage 1 will be? Probably in a month or so?



  • Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭InsideEdge


    I did last year's and didn't make it through unfortunately. I'm going with the same form again (it's exactly the same) as it took forever to put those examples together and I've done nothing in the last year to justify changing them!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭FenFlynn


    Is it used as shortlisting stage, do you know? I've just one example left, managed to get questions 1 and 2 finished, will concentrate on question 3 today to get it finished.



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