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Should NPHET be disbanded ?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    I disagree. I don't think it's our strategy.

    But even if it was, we would be slowly easing restrictions while the UK get their freedom day and both our Islands will be plunged into a lockdown in November... Whereas if we followed England's lead on this we would at least have a few weeks of normality this year



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭crossman47


    One thing that really annoys me is the comment that our concentration on Covid measures has been at the expense of cancer diagnoses, etc. Yes, these have been affected (and I am one with a colonoscopy postponed) but the reason is the virulence of Covid, not the restrictions. If we had not had lockdowns and curtailments, then our hospitalisations from Covid would have been far greater with an even worse effect on other treatments.

    People who suggest otherwise are ignoring the fact that lesser restrictions would have meant more Covid patients in hospital and so an even greater knock on effect on other treatmets (or do they think Covid patients should be ignored?)



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    One argument that was made this time last year is that instead of going for a "living with COVID" approach we should have gone for a "Zero COVID" one... It's too late for that now of course but if we had taken that approach there would have been fewer deaths and less need for restrictions in our hospitals

    Of course NPHET had recommended MHQ in May of 2020



  • Registered Users Posts: 859 ✭✭✭OwenM


    The only successful elimination of a pathogenic virus was smallpox, it took decades. Smallpox also does not jump between species, so I would love to hear your plan to lockdown every animal on the planet for several weeks. Australia is doing great at the moment and New Zealand is giving grants to coastal towns to migrate their economy away from tourism......

    and MHQ isn't working for either of them now with the delta variant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    Fauci is competent.

    Holohan is a failed civil servant, after a disastrous reign at cervical check, he got a cushy CMO job, nobody saw the pandemic coming, otherwise he wouldn’t have been left in such an important role.

    Holohan has ignored government commissioned advice from professor Ferguson. Holohan has frequently given advice which runs totally contradictory to the CMOs of the other 27 EU countries.

    Micheal Martin has abdicated responsibility and Holohan has been put on a pedestal. The only way for the government to take back charge is to break up NPHET and take advice separately from experts and the have the government decide how to proceed.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,097 ✭✭✭✭end of the road




    so to be clear, we break up the current expert group, and then take advice from experts, who will most likely be the same experts?

    that makes logical sense alright.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Thats just ridiculous. We're not allowed discuss cervical check on this thread but Holohan did not move from any role there. He was CMO all along. Its a common misunderstanding - he was not in charge of the cervical check programme.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,267 ✭✭✭Red Silurian



    Lot to unpack there but one thing we can agree on is Faucci's competence. While it might be convenient to blame cervicalcheck on Hoolohan the truth is of course that he had very little to do with it (Grainne Flannelly was the one who decided not to tell the women what was going on) and a lot to do with trying to get it back on track as quickly as possible.

    What does giving advice different from the other 27 EU CMO's have to do with competency? Most other countries in the EU don't have failing health systems so the advice is obviously going to be different

    Martin has essentially left the running of the country to Hoolohan and Co and fair enough the public health experts are failing miserably as politicians, a good example of government incompetency. I think that a part of this is because the govt ignored NPHET advice in the past and the cases went nuts in January/February. But in fairness you don't need to disband NPHET, just stop listening to them

    You have me on the Ferguson report admittedly



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    It does, it's more or less what the UK government had to do also. (I'm not suggesting they are a model to follow)

    The problem with NPHET is that all the specialities report into Holohan, he then gives public advice, the government then have a binary decision go with Holohan or go against him. What happened last Christmas shocked us all with the virulence of the British Variant, the government went against Holohan and have been licking their wounds since. What would be better is to have the data modelling done by a science team, the medical stuff done by doctors (incl. Holohan) and the reporting of numbers to be done by the CSO, HSE should be giving advice on capacity etc. all directly to the government, then it is a political decision, and citizens views have to be accounted for. That way the government can come out and say we have taken advice from all the experts and our conclusion is ........ they way forward is ........ If they get it wrong we get rid of them.

    Look at Trump, he got expert advice, ignored it, then got voted out of office. Trump failed to install himself as a dictator.

    Holohan has ignored expert advice when it doesn't suit his narrative (e.g. Antigen Testing), how do I vote him out of office?

    Just speculating here, but I doubt people in many countries even know the name of their CMO, let alone make "(Obama) HOPE" posters of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,097 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    the nphet model is more or less what you are looking for, it is doing exactly what you are wanting to be done bar the CSO bit which is unworkable.

    citizens views should never be accounted for when it comes to an issue like this, since there is a small minority set on, and were set on through out this whole thing, on undermining everything.

    the CMO was right to ignore antigen Testing, based on the evidence provided.

    the UK CMO or whatever he is called is well known, as are those of other countries, as they appear regularly.

    Post edited by end of the road on

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    citizens views should never be accounted for when it comes to an issue like this

    Sorry this is a democracy, not a theocracy. Maybe move to Iran??


    the CMO was right to ignore antigen Testing, based on the evidence provided.

    You are delusional, or just a Tony fan boy.


    Professor Mark Ferguson, Director General, Science Foundation Ireland and Chief Scientific Adviser to the Government of Ireland, chaired a report into the use of Antigen Testing.

    • Professor Paddy Mallon, Professor of Microbial Diseases UCD, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, St Vincent’s University Hospital and Director of the UCD Centre for Experimental Pathogen Host Research
    • Professor Mary Horgan, President of Royal College of Physicians in Ireland, Professor, School of Medicine, UCC. Consultant in Infectious Diseases, Cork University Hospital
    • Professor Kingston Mills, Professor of Experimental Immunology, Trinity College Dublin and Director Trinity Biomedical Sciences Institute
    • Dr Lorraine Doherty, National Clinical Director Health Protection, Health Service Executive*
    • Dr Darina O’Flanagan, Former Director of the Health Protection Surveillance Centre; Special adviser to NPHET at Department of Health*

    The report had a majority finding that Ireland should rollout antigen testing with immediate effect.

    *Indicates member does not support report (the two dissenting voices were and still are on the main NPHET board and are direct reports to Tony, I would guess Tony pressured them)

    Watch this video from the Oireachtas Transport Committee https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1405157995068207109 NPHET talk about putting kerrygold onto the Covid tests to invalidate them, they had the time to come up with this embarrassing farce, yet on media questioning later that day Ronan Glynn admitted that they had not read / discussed the outcome of the Prof Fergusson report. Tony didn't want to hear science. He wants to hear about putting kerrygold butter onto covid tests....

    Tony Holohan, rejected this science and went with his gut. Antigen Testing is snake oil... despite every other country in the world using them, and infact the EU sort of mandated that Ireland had to start following the science in order to qualify for Covid grants, hence the HSE are now pushing ahead with testing against NPHET advice.


    The individual functions of the group work reasonable ok, however they all report to Tony, I presume Tony put pressure on Philip Nolan to tweet that Antigen Tests were snake oil. Philip Nolan has no qualification or experience to make such a judgement, he is a medical doctor and was a surgical intern before returning to academia. A smart guy, but he is not the right guy to be doing the modelling. A data science or data engineer would be much better running the models for NPHET, I think at this stage all of NPHETS modelling has now been debunked? If I want my appendix out, I'll go to a surgeon, If I want some data modelled, I'll go to a data modeller not a surgeon. More importantly, data modelling must be independent of NPHET otherwise you get confirmation bias.


    I know it was early days, but "It might be higher risk to wear a mask, so don't" and "Continue to visit nursing homes, isolation would be worse on residents than covid" were just another two of Tony's greatest hits. Can't remember the quote but when Tony was quizzed about how the Central Statistics Office put the covid death at a lower number than NPHET, he just shouted them down, Tony is above scrutiny, a deity our saviour...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,147 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    So many of you are getting your wish and the public health emergency team is to be disbanded mid-emergency. Might as well I suppose, the gov disregard much of their advice anyway.

    So now we start opening schools and universities while having the highest incidence rate in the EU. I'm getting a sinking feeling.

    I hope you're all correct to put our fate souly in the hands of the idiots behind the "meaningful Christmas" disaster, but I fear that as usual most of you have it entirely wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,767 ✭✭✭Deeper Blue


    Covid is no longer an emergency to the vast vast majority.

    I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.

    Time to move on with life.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How on earth is it mid-emergency when almost the entire population has been vaccinated?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,708 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It's the time to move on, there is no greater fix coming, it's either return to lockdown and stay there or get on with things, what happens over winter, happens over winter.

    NPHET don't need to be around to manage the booster rollout, future vaccines will be in addition to the current set, most people will just get on with things and (hopefully) be more wary of going out if they're symptomatic (+ masks on public transport, for the long term population control).



  • Registered Users Posts: 26,984 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    Whilst I voted no, my reasons are quite simple. There is and despite a developing narrative, continued uncertainty and I might add at a time when Vacination rates are very high.

    I've frankly been disgusted at some of the personal attacks on individual members of NPHET and astonished that these very members whom have been generally positive over the past few months continued to be vilified, seems no matter what they say or do (all in the persuit of public health advice) they still regarded as vermin by some.

    Throughout this pandemic, NPHET have been the only consistent group helping to direct the country out of this nightmare. Government and HSE are all over the place and continue to be. The vacinne roll out success is down to an excellent leader along with front line staff and the public listening to the science.

    Whilst I voted no, I believe in time, perhaps early next year, to use that often used cliché, the next few MONTHS are critical and to my mind, god help us if the spin machine that is HSE senior executives are, take over managing any direction to do with this pandemic, which despite some"s assertions, has not ended.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Imagine going on extended holidays in the middle of a national emergency!



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,052 ✭✭✭✭event


    Who will all the conspiracy theorists blame now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,708 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Just to add, I think NPHET have done a great job, they probably got too political at some points (leading to confusion) but seems to have managed OK, but the emergency part is over, time to move on and live and manage in the world the way it is.

    Next question, should the Coronavirus forum be disbanded? 😃



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    It was never merely a public health issue - there were always any number of aspects to it and the reaction. That is why illegal, unconstitutional means such as imprisoning the population and issuing diktats as to how we must live our lives was always wrong, immoral and unlawful - and always shall be. Totalitarianism is the true disease.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Why masks on public transport? Gone in the Netherlands from the 20th of September, gone in Hungary, gone in England (London is a bit of a grey area), never required in a number of countries, but Ireland keeps them indefinitely for some reason?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    No it didn't - closing the country down is and always was wrong, immoral, abhorrent and illegal. Leo is a coward, morally bankrupt and utterly unlikeable and untrustworthy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No absolutely not.

    Disbanding them now with cases still at 2k a day and that's with 90% vaccinated, and still questions over whether boosters will be needed, sounds premature to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,708 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    For the population control that you've been harping on about, need a permanent measure to keep the conspiracy theorists pliant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    They are a pony out of tricks, no longer needed. They need to go before we get to Xmas so we don’t have to hear ridiculous shite this year like leaving elderly near the window or using 3ft serving spoons etc



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Time will tell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DarkJager21


    Nah their time has been and gone, it’s long overdue.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,912 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    NPHET overstepped their boundaries too many times. I believe they caused more harm through constant fear and some poor decisions. They were also led by a man on a power trip.

    He (and they) had to go.



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