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New Alternative News Channel "GB News" chaired by Andrew Neil launching - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,556 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You've moved the goalposts. Farage tried to do a pact with the Tories which Johnson rightly dismissed. He then had to stand down in over 300 constituencies.

    I suggest you read that post again as it seems you missed the point.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The reality is that Farage was always going to back down from those 316 seats.

    Cummings was wise to hold firm, and it paid off.

    I have read your post and I disagree with it. Farage fielded candidates throughout the country and only withdrew from Conservative strongholds once Johnson didn't accept the agreement.

    That said, the agreement was in effect regardless as Farage forced the agreement by standing candidates down anyway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,130 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    If you believe what the Tories offer up is conservatism then I'm sorry I can't convince you otherwise.


    Note Brexit is quite literally the antantithesis of conservatism or any conservative values on any basic examination or metric.


    Both the Tories and brexit is a text book populist movement. You changing definitions will never make reality different. I'm beginning to think for a self proclaimed conservative you actually don't grip what it means and change it to suit a post on a day.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,556 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Nonsense. He failed to win a single seat. Cummings and Johnson knew this and that therefore any alliance with him was worthless. Fielding candidates and then standing them down means that he didn't challenge every seat whereas you said he did.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,556 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    You could argue that this is what conservatism is now. I'm not above acknowledging the rich heritage of intellectual conservative thought in this country but the last great conservative was arguably Margaret Thatcher and that's over three decades ago. Modern conservatives in the UK have discarded any sort of intellectual heritage in favour of populism, demgoguery, racism, xenophobia and venality. There's no purpose to modern conservatism save for self-interest and even that's debateable with the eradication of the traditional catalysts conservatism previously employed to groom the next generation of voters.

    All GB News is ultimately, is a very weak attempt at a propaganda arm.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    "Modern conservatives = populism, demagoguery, racism, xenophobia, and venality."

    Absolute, undiluted nonsense.

    The vast, vast majority of self-assessed conservatives are not associated with the bleak and biased picture you have painted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,658 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Well at least they don't believe they are or convinced themselves they are not.

    What is not in doubt is a vote for the current UK Conservative party is a vote for those things



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Can you actually back that statement up rather than just asserting it?

    How is a vote for the UK Conservative Party a vote for racism and xenophobia?

    Almost 44% voted for the CP in the last General Election, and your sweeping statements could be taken to conclude that you believe the UK to be a racist nation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Picaninnies. Watermelon smiles. Letter boxes.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How do those terms match the definition of racist and xenophobic?

    Racism: "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized".

    Nothing of what Johnson wrote as a journalist is discrimination against a racial group. He may have used colourful language but that kind of language does not mean someone is racist. Intent matters when it comes to proving racism, and Johnson's use of language cannot be taken as some sort of intent that he is actively racist and hates ethnic groups. Black people are allowed to use the N-word, for example, but it doesn't make them racist. Again, it comes down to intention.

    Furthermore, this has nothing to do with what was included in the Conservative manifesto of 2019.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,060 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    it wasn't colourful language it was racist language.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,916 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    I'm happy you finally looked up the meaning of racism, Would you like to withdraw your idiotic claim that I am a racist now and apologise for calling me a racist?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Was actually having some sympathy with your arguments until you came out with this absolute turkey. As they would say on a certain tv show, "I'm out".



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, it depends on context.

    Take the two examples:

    • Johnson goes to Nigeria, hates the people, and starts shouting watermelon smiles at them.
    • Johnson goes to Nigeria, doesn't hate the people, comes back and colourfully refers to some facial commonality.

    One is clearly intent to provoke racial hatred, whereas the second does not.

    Similarly, Johnson colourfully referred to gays as "tank-topped bumboys". As a gay person myself, I wholeheartedly agree with this description. I don't take any offense whatsoever. Why? Because a) it's true in many cases and b) it's colourful use of language. I certainly don't conclude that Boris Johnson absolutely hates homosexuals.

    We need to grow thicker skins and stop shouting -phobias and -isms at people who have no bad intentions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,916 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    As a non Nigerian you have no clue whatsoever wether it is racist/offensive or not. Same with your gay person analogy, just because you are ok with the use of that term does not mean its ok to use it in public. What may be fine to you may be deeply offensive to other people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,714 ✭✭✭Yellow_Fern


    The picannies and water melon smiles might qualify as soft racism but letter boxes does not. Religion is a choice and politicians have every right to mock conservative Muslims who choice to wear a niqāb. But there is a broader point here. Voting for a politician doesnt mean you endorse every dumb thing they said. Biden once said Obama is the “the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean.”

    he said that forced busing to desegregate schools would cause his children to “grow up in a racial jungle.”

    But, I dont think Biden voters are necessarily standing over these views or endorsing them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    well at least you admit they are racist unlike your fellow traveller.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It's not for you to decide.

    Who are you to speak on behalf of the people Johnson was referring to?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,658 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Ah the old "as a gay person myself" defense.

    His list is a fair bit longer than you make out. You may not believe everything thing on this list is a problem I certainly don't but I cannot believe anyone can defend even the majority of it unless they are completely brainwashed and blinded by bias

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-record-sexist-homophobic-and-racist-comments-bumboys-piccaninnies-2019-6%3famp



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,980 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    i am perfectly capable of deciding if something is racist. who are you to tell me i can't?



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There are some comments I have no problem with, other comments I wouldn't personally have made myself.

    But my point is this: so what?

    As I said above, people need to grow thicker skins instead of outrage and insecurity, throwing around labels such as -isms and -phobias.

    People get far too offended over tongue-in-cheek language.

    No wonder comedy has been killed.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,556 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    They voted for it. That's a lot worse than mere association.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,658 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    What I said was and this isn't the first time you have tried to twist things to try catch me out and make me look like the racist

    "What is not in doubt is a vote for the current UK Conservative party is a vote for those things"

    It does not mean everyone who votes for the Tories votes because of their racist policies they may vote because they prefer Tory tax law but they are then backing all other Tory policy along with it.

    Backing Hitler because he got the trains running on time doesn't make you an antisemite but doesn't excuse you either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    In the week after Johnson made his vile "letterbox" comments, there were a reported near 400% spike in attacks on Muslim people. But hey, context and all that. What's the big deal? Grow a thicker skin ffs.



  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Right, so your revised version appears to be, "a vote for the Conservative Party is a vote for racism, and even if you aren't racist, you're complicit in racism".

    In effect, a distinction without a difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,658 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Comedy is alive and well shure I have gotten some great laughs with the lads here talking about the tanking of GBebbies.

    As for your "so what?" comment "as a gay man" who claims to understand history surely you know those kinds of comments are part of a dehumanizing that leads to hate beatings on the streets or a public willing to sit back while gay people get chemically castrated or barred from working.

    His comparing gay sex to beastiality refers to a particularly long, odious and dangerous comparison



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,658 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Yes that is what I am saying. You vote for someone you are complicit in all their policy. You don't get to excuse yourself from the ones you don't like.

    And it's not " a distinction without a difference" but I bet you thought that made you look smart



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  • Posts: 6,775 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That's a different question; the responsibility of public figures and the language they deploy.

    But I would rather be on the side of comedy, tongue-in-cheek colourful (yet often accurate) language - than on the side of "...let's not say anything even remotely provocative in case some genuinely awful people in society beat up some victim in the street".

    In an ideal society, we should have both - free speech + no violence.

    It's often about laughing at ourselves, and I think society would do better to do that a bit more rather than obsessing about what causes "offense", which is an entirely subjective feeling.

    And this harks back to GB News, which is in some way an outlet for subjects that others find objectionable by definition.



This discussion has been closed.
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