How effective are ice baths after training?

culabula88 · 15-03-2008 10:19PM #1

How effective are ice baths after training. How do they work and what do you have to do. Is it 5 mins in ice baths and then into warm shower - repeated three times?

Any disadvantages to them?

WHIP IT! · 16-03-2008 01:43PM

culabula88 wrote: »

How effective are ice baths after training. How do they work and what do you have to do. Is it 5 mins in ice baths and then into warm shower - repeated three times?

Any disadvantages to them?

I won't pretend to know any of the science behind it, something to do with lactic acid build-up I think, but personally I find them very beneficial... We do 30 seconds in, then shower, then 30 seconds in again and shower... personally I find two x 30sec dips is plenty and I feel excellent after them...

SUNGOD · 16-03-2008 02:31PM

i dont have any scientific evidence to back it up either but i find getting from ice cold plunge pool in to hot jacuzzi(and vice versa) in my leisure centre after my long runs deffinately helps

Roper · 16-03-2008 03:06PM

The cold causes the blood to rush towards the centre of your body, and then the heat causes it to rush back out again, cleansing the muscles. I'm paraphrasing what I've been told. I don't have access to an ice bath but I use hot/cold showers and I find that excellent for recovery. It's not huge or anything but maybe the difference between being really sore or slightly sore the day after.

thirtyfoot · 17-03-2008 06:43PM

There is no scientific evidence supporting the belief that ice-baths work but loads of anecdotal evidence that they do. The general consensus is that if you feel they work for you and aid your recovery keep using them as they aren't doing any harm.

xebec · 17-03-2008 09:49PM

Interesting discussion on the use of cryotherapy on Radio 1 sports show yesterday evening - ice baths are a form of cryo. A head guy from the IRFU was on explaining their rational for using cryo, basically that there is no evidence that it helps to recover from injury but there is evidence that it reduces ordinary muscle damage from exercise by as much as 40%. They use it so that the players can train 4-5 times a day in pre-season and get about 6 weeks work done in 3 weeks.

Interesting perspective on how a 'professional' organisation uses a similar technique for training.

WHIP IT! · 18-03-2008 10:26AM

xebec wrote: »

Interesting discussion on the use of cryotherapy on Radio 1 sports show yesterday evening - ice baths are a form of cryo. A head guy from the IRFU was on explaining their rational for using cryo, basically that there is no evidence that it helps to recover from injury but there is evidence that it reduces ordinary muscle damage from exercise by as much as 40%. They use it so that the players can train 4-5 times a day in pre-season and get about 6 weeks work done in 3 weeks.

Interesting perspective on how a 'professional' organisation uses a similar technique for training.

They'd be better off givin em a rugby ball every now and then - least then they might win the odd one!

Jockey Tony McCoy used Cryo to get back from a serious back injury ahead of schedule and in time for the recent Cheltenham festival.

Roper · 18-03-2008 10:36AM

I was listening to David Wallace on the radio one day and he was saying that his stats were all down after cryo sessions. His point was how lethargic the Irish looked during the world cup, having been in Poland at a specialist cryo treatment centre.

I wonder. There's not much real science behind it. I can see how it improves recovery but to what extent I wonder? Even in my own experience I would say yes it works, but who is to say that I wouldn't have felt okay the next day without using it. It's highly subjective I think.

t-ha · 18-03-2008 11:59AM

Roper wrote: »

I was listening to David Wallace on the radio one day and he was saying that his stats were all down after cryo sessions. His point was how lethargic the Irish looked during the world cup, having been in Poland at a specialist cryo treatment centre.

I wonder. There's not much real science behind it. I can see how it improves recovery but to what extent I wonder? Even in my own experience I would say yes it works, but who is to say that I wouldn't have felt okay the next day without using it. It's highly subjective I think.

I was going to bring up the Irish team's world cup performance actually. I'm not convinced it improves recovery so much as it reduces inflammation and muscle soreness - which could concievably be interfering with the normal recovery process. I've only ever heard it's benefits in regards to 'no muscle soreness'. I've never seen anything showing somebody improving their stats over the course of training with cryo treatment over what they would have got without it, which is of course, the only real way to tell if it's working.

Roper · 18-03-2008 12:08PM

Well perhaps I misheard him or he was misinformed, but what I took from it was that the Irish Squad's trip to the camp in Poland was because it had a large cryo facility nearby. Now whether that was because they were going to be training so intensely that they were going to need that facility, or because there was some perceived link between cryo and performance, I don't know. I would suggest it was the former, but Wallace's point was that he couldn't match his previous sprint times afterwards and so on.

My own pet theory on the poor world cup is to much emphasis on short burst power and strength and not enough on endurance. I think they **** themselves when they heard what the Kiwis had been doing and the stats coming out of that camp and decided that they were going to compete physically with the best of them and forgot to play ball enough!

Hanley · 18-03-2008 12:13PM

t-ha wrote: »

I was going to bring up the Irish team's world cup performance actually. I'm not convinced it improves recovery so much as it reduces inflammation and muscle soreness - which could concievably be interfering with the normal recovery process. I've only ever heard it's benefits in regards to 'no muscle soreness'. I've never seen anything showing somebody improving their stats over the course of training with cryo treatment over what they would have got without it, which is of course, the only real way to tell if it's working.

I was thinking that was pretty much all that it does. Which raises the question, is cryothreaphy BAD for performance since you no longer have the aches and pains that would normally signal extreme exertion and the beginnings of CNS fatigue, which allows you to train harder and potentially put yourself into a deeper state of overtraning?

t-ha · 18-03-2008 12:40PM

Roper wrote: »

My own pet theory on the poor world cup is to much emphasis on short burst power and strength and not enough on endurance.

They had neither. They showed all the signs of CNS fatigue IMO. If your CNS is fried not only do you lose power & speed, your co-ordination and rapid decision making is also lessened. They looked over-trained, in a word. I'd bet if they could have taken a week off before the world cup and just relaxed and concentrated on ball skills and strategic stuff that you would have seen a different team.

@Hanley, yeah I agree, but I also think (without too much scientific backing I suppose) that maybe the bodies inflammation response could be an important part of the recovery process & so cryo treatment could retard the recovery process regardless of whether you train more or not?

amazingemmet · 18-03-2008 05:09PM

I read some article a while back on ice baths after training and monitoring hormone changes and the cryo group had an increased cortisol output after the workout rather the control group.

Personally I don't do them only time I use cold stuff is for injuries, though g'em et al done something in a -60c chamber thingy at some point which sounded interesting.

Mikel · 18-03-2008 08:07PM

Good point about the muscle soreness, maybe the natural recovery is being over ridden in some way.
Personally I think they misused them. They seem useful if you train as normal then do your ice bath or cryo and then maybe you feel 'fresh' and can perform.
Let's say they make you subjectively 'feel better' by 10%.
It seems they take this as licence to train the 'extra' 10% instead.
I'd like to read something more empirical about it.
Intuitively the cortisol reaction makes sense... that must be bad

In my ignorant opinion, the rugby issue was a result of the fetishisation of weight lifting stats over playing, which comes from the infiltration of professional sports by management consultant types.
If you send people out to measure, they will focus only on those things which can be measured easily

g'em · 18-03-2008 08:18PM

amazingemmet wrote: »

Personally I don't do them only time I use cold stuff is for injuries, though g'em et al done something in a -60c chamber thingy at some point which sounded interesting.

yup, myself, Dragan and JayRoc did three sessions one Saturday in the Wexford Cryo unit in January 2007. It was a pretty fun experience, not entirely sure what, if any, impact it had on my performance, although I did manage to do three full bench training sessions that day without any ill-effects or DOMS. The freeze-burns I had on my ankles took weeks to heal though

thirtyfoot · 18-03-2008 08:36PM

Mikel wrote: »

In my ignorant opinion, the rugby issue was a result of the fetishisation of weight lifting stats over playing, which comes from the infiltration of professional sports by management consultant types.
If you send people out to measure, they will focus only on those things which can be measured easily

Interesting, the curse of the specialised strength and conditioning guru you could say. Being able to bench 180kg won't teach you to take a garryowen or clear a ruck or beat your man on the outside. Its happened with GAA teams too, particularly hurling, where they have focused on strength and fitness and the latest fads and forgetting the basics and skills. It would be interesting to see the Kilkenny training program, the perfect mix I'd say as they are the fittest, toughest but most skillfull team in recent years. I wonder do Kilkenny take ice-baths, maybe they do but then again maybe they show how "tough" they are on the pitch, where it matters. I'm dubious of ice-baths but in a coincidence my coach has just suggested in the last hour an ice-bath to recover from todays ball-breaking session after I was complaining of how fuct I am, will give it a lash again and see what happens.

More of a fan of a hot bath with my wife's sea salts and fancy spa-style stuff.

How effective are ice baths after training?

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