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Chinese Delegates walk out of Greens Conference following Gormley's remarks on Tibet

  • 12-04-2008 08:05PM
    #1
    ircoha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭


    Just watching the above on TV, JG called for China to open dialogue with DL: the 3 Chinese delegates walked out in protest.:(


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    Denis Irwin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Denis Irwin


    ircoha wrote: »
    Just watching the above on TV, JG called for China to open dialogue with DL: the 3 Chinese delegates walked out in protest.:(


    Says it all about the Chinese attitude towards Tibet really.


  • #3
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    I just spent one hour watching CCTV9's official rant on Tibet followed by the more mellow BBC program by Dan Cruikshank.

    China needs to do some anger management, they may have valid points to make but they're clueless about getting people to listen.


  • #4
    Jimbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Jimbo


    Typical of Chinas attitude to this whole thing.
    First time I've ever agreed with Gormley


  • #5
    Sherifu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu


    Good on Gormley, didn't think he had it in him.


  • #6
    Denis Irwin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Denis Irwin


    I also see that the Ambassador was told before hand that there would be comments made about the Tibet situation. Yet he chose to still go to the speech and then walk out when the comments were made. Looks like someone was told by Beijing to get some valuable propaganda footage for State TV.


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  • #7
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    Looks like someone was told by Beijing to get some valuable propaganda footage for State TV.

    What exactly did Gormley say?

    Calling for 'Open Dialogue' isn't the most inciteful thing I've ever heard


  • #8
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    Looks like someone was told by Beijing to get some valuable propaganda footage for State TV.
    Maybe they'll show the Chinese demonstrators outside of the GPO....something about their right to govern Tibet going back to the 12th century. I'm sure the men of 1916 would have had an answer for that!


  • #9
    Denis Irwin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Denis Irwin


    The Ambassador walked out soon after Gormley said the Chinese govt. should speak with the Dalai Lama. Who as we all know from that bastion of press freedom that is Chinese state TV is an evil man.:rolleyes:


  • #10
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Tomas_V wrote: »
    Maybe they'll show the Chinese demonstrators outside of the GPO....something about their right to govern Tibet going back to the 12th century. I'm sure the men of 1916 would have had an answer for that!

    You're not letting go of that one are ya!?

    Ah on a lighter note this implies (I hope) that Gormley hasn't lost all his balls going into government


  • #11
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    The Ambassador walked out soon after Gormley said the Chinese govt. should speak with the Dalai Lama. Who as we all know from that bastion of press freedom that is Chinese state TV is an evil man.:rolleyes:
    Well, CCTV9 (Official Chinese Government controlled news channel in English) broadcast an interview with a former editor of Japan Times who has connected the Dalai Lama to Adolf Hitler by way of Heinrich Harrar. Also pointed out that the Nazis looked to Tibet as the origin of the Aryan race....:rolleyes:

    Their media management is just a hoot. They need professional help.


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  • #12
    Denis Irwin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Denis Irwin


    Tomas_V wrote: »
    Well, CCTV9 (Official Chinese Government controlled news channel in English) broadcast an interview with a former editor of Japan Times who has connected the Dalai Lama to Adolf Hitler by way of Heinrich Harrar. Also pointed out that the Nazis looked to Tibet as the origin of the Aryan race....:rolleyes:

    Their media management is just a hoot. They need professional help.


    Well if the Nazi's claimed that Tibet was the origin of the Aryan race surely that ends all Chinese claims to Tibet.:D


  • #13
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    Well if the Nazi's claimed that Tibet was the origin of the Aryan race surely that ends all Chinese claims to Tibet.:D
    Nope, apparently they (the Nazis) said that the Aryans then interbred with Mongols and give rise to the inferior (i.e. ugly) Tibetans and that this could happen to the Germans if they did not watch their racial purity etc.

    This was all part of a major mud-slinging exercise on CCTV. The official news reader was loving every minute of the interview. Even got up and shook the hand of the Japanese journalist, he was so delighted with the information.


  • #14
    OK-Cancel-Apply
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭OK-Cancel-Apply


    'They walked out in protest'

    Maybe they are just tired of the BS. It's shamefull that Ireland may ruin its excellent relations with China over the United States' political games. But hey, we all know who really calls the shots in the world. After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.


  • #15
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
    'They walked out in protest'

    Maybe they are just tired of the BS. It's shamefull that Ireland may ruin its excellent relations with China over the United States' political games. But hey, we all know who really calls the shots in the world. After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.

    By calling for dialogue,

    to be fair now, a bit of talking never hurt a politically unstable situation


  • #16
    Mike...
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 956 ✭✭✭Mike...


    After he left, the ambassador told RTÉ News

    that Chinese people loved peace and wanted good relations with Irish people.

    'I hope our relations with Ireland, including economic relations, can go on.

    Wonder what he is hinting at?


  • #17
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    *mono* wrote: »
    After he left, the ambassador told RTÉ News

    that Chinese people loved peace and wanted good relations with Irish people.

    'I hope our relations with Ireland, including economic relations, can go on.

    Wonder what he is hinting at?

    ...he wants to keep getting our money?:rolleyes:


  • #18
    yawtin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭yawtin


    John Gormleys comments were so cheap, he has shown his ignorance as to what is actually going on in China, Tibet, and the history behind the situation.

    Does he know that at least 95% of the people living in Tibet prefer remain part of China, and all the troubles are being caused by a small minority. This minority were historicaly the slave owners (Yes Slave Owners) of the 95% of the Tibetan people. As all people are equal in the eyes of the Chinese government, the 5% could not handle equal rights, fled the country. In the last 50 years, living conditions for the majority of the Tibetan people have vastly improved. Shame on the western media for taking a swing at China at every opportunity, with little of the true facts, or distorting the truth. The Olympics and Sport in general are a good thing for people and nations, and China putting it's best into hosting the games and welcoming all nations of the world.

    I ask you to just think about this, if I am sitting in a room of 10 western people and ask what do you think of the Tibetan situation, most of them will say something like "oh yeah, they should be free". However, ask them what is going on there and maybe one of them might know. Then mention one or two of the real truths, and most of them will be very supprised. How can people be sure of something which they do not know enough about to make a fair judgement upon. Again, I must point a finger at the media for ignoring the voice of the Chinese people, for ignoring the facts, and portraying a distorted view of situation.

    (The above comment is from one of my Irish friends.)


  • #19
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    yawtin wrote: »
    Does he know that at least 95% of the people living in Tibet prefer remain part of China,
    Could you post a source for this please?


  • #20
    yawtin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭yawtin


    SkepticOne wrote: »
    Could you post a source for this please?

    Sorry I do not have that figure for you.

    I suppose you do agree that before 1959 when Dalai fled Tibet， 95% of the population was slaves. The monks and aristocrats owned the slaves and had the right to take a slave's life any time they like. many of the aristocrats who did not flee with Dalai were put into prison by the Tibetan autonomy Government since the flee.

    My friend assumed that since these 95% slaves were liberated, they definitely fully supported the Communism government. You may discard that commend.

    There is no official statistical figure on how many tibatens really want independency. But I have seen Tibetan people posting their support on Chinese boards.

    One of them said there was 1 person in their village who had "political ambition". According to him, this seperatist brought 2 friends back and had a fight was villagers, one died, the other two rescued by the local police. He accused seperatists for betraying their people for a few hundred yuan (11 Yuan=1 Euro) extra money from Dalai's government. He also estimated there are maximum 10000 seperatists in Tibet. The Tibetan population in China is over 6 million. 10,000/6,000,000= 0.16%?

    There are many other stories to confirm the Tibetans' support towards Chinese. One of these stories were from Taiwan, in which a girl descibed how her friend from Beijing was protected by Tibetan students from the violence.

    I have no way to show you what I have seen, because most of the information is in Chinese.

    If you want more information in English, watch these vedios:
    Tibet Diary（1-6）： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNeGcLoPFow

    Tibet: The Truth ： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsoc4-QnplY

    CIA： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcGCjoNXo1o

    Dictator： http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5sOm-uQH9Y

    Old Tibetan man Protest against "Free Tibet"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCDmWLWMvY8


  • #21
    irishmilk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 58 ✭✭irishmilk


    Brian Capture wrote: »
    China is a f*cking joke of a country.

    Insane censorship.

    Cruelty on a unprecedented scale.

    No respector of copyright.

    Rolling Stones having to censor their setlist when playing there.

    GIVE ME JAPAN ANY DAY.


    The censorship is much better compare 20 years ago, and still improving.
    A ironical thing is All brand of PC sold in China must have a legal Windows preinstalled by government rule. You will be jail by selling a PC with Ubuntu only.

    However, the west never "care" those improvement. And do you get what you have today instantly? How long does it take 'Magdalene Asylum' to get end? (Sorry for this example.)

    Do you think the west are really try to help china's democracy or chinese people's life. The russia never be accepted by the west even it became democracy.

    Also the situation of China: Large unemployment rate, Big gap between rich and poor areas, etc. A mass of people espicially of those poor are easily ANGRY with government for any cause. The government promised the country will become more democracy and they are improving. The chinese better believe them rather than the west as just thinking what does the west did to China in one hundred years ago.

    Ps: You seem do not know japanese pray in Yasukuni Shrine for their WWII national heros evey year.


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  • #22
    edanto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    Cliste wrote: »
    What exactly did Gormley say?

    I just had a look over on the Green Party site and found the speech. It's here - http://blogs.greenparty.ie/2008/04/leaders_address_to_convention.html#more

    Here's the only paragraph referencing Tibet:
    John Gormley wrote:
    Respect for human rights must extend to all cultures and countries. One country which has been exploited and suppressed and suffered for far too long is Tibet. We condemn unequivocally the flagrant human rights abuses by the Chinese government and call on the Chinese government to enter dialogue with the Dalai Lama.

    Yawtin, where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative? You could well be right - I'm not saying I know any better - I'm just interested in the credibility of your claim.


  • #23
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    it's not a conservative statement, but I don't see any problems with it...


  • #24
    The_Minister
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
    After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.
    No we aren't.
    There is a UN mandate calling for aid to the war effort in Iraq.
    There is nothing in our Constitution to stop us helping out.


  • #25
    yen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29 ✭yen


    edanto wrote: »
    I just had a look over on the Green Party site and found the speech. It's here - http://blogs.greenparty.ie/2008/04/leaders_address_to_convention.html#more

    Here's the only paragraph referencing Tibet:



    Yawtin, where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative? You could well be right - I'm not saying I know any better - I'm just interested in the credibility of your claim.

    I can tell you some truth I know about Tibet.
    In 1959, there are only 5% of people control all of futune inculde lands in Tibet. most of people are slaves of this 5% of controlers. 40% of men are monks in the total population,because their parents has no money to fed them up. Dalai Lama was the most powerful person in Tibet who performs as a real king of Tibet. There was no electricity, no any factory or any technical things. only is land. those poor people and slaves all work on that 5% people's land for their living. Tibet is an big region in the west of china, which is highest tableland in china, there was even had no roads wider then 1 meter. people were lived in dark and hard and poor in their life,the only education they have got is from temples which controlled by Dalai Lama. the only thing they hoped is that their pudda can help them,but Dalai Lama was treated as the person who pass the messages to them from Pudda. that is ture situation at that time.

    how about Tibet today, I think a lot of european has been there for travelling, you might find information online the words from those travellers.

    The truth are from what is exactly there but not by making for some special purposes.


  • #26
    Jim_Are_Great
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Jim_Are_Great


    yawtin wrote: »
    Sorry I do not have that figure for you.

    I suppose you do agree that before 1959 when Dalai fled Tibet， 95% of the population was slaves. The monks and aristocrats owned the slaves and had the right to take a slave's life any time they like. many of the aristocrats who did not flee with Dalai were put into prison by the Tibetan autonomy Government since the flee.
    ...
    There is no official statistical figure on how many tibatens really want independency. But I have seen Tibetan people posting their support on Chinese boards.
    ...
    One of them said there was 1 person in their village who had "political ambition". According to him, this seperatist brought 2 friends back and had a fight was villagers, one died, the other two rescued by the local police.
    ...
    There are many other stories to confirm the Tibetans' support towards Chinese. One of these stories were from Taiwan, in which a girl descibed how her friend from Beijing was protected by Tibetan students from the violence.
    ...
    I have no way to show you what I have seen, because most of the information is in Chinese.
    ...

    A lot of your arguments are flawed and your claims often seem apocryphal. But I'm not going to argue about them with you. Here's the thing, though: Even taking your arguments supporting the legitimacy of Tibetan occupation as acceptible, how do you justify
    (a) the violent measures used against anti-Chinese activists
    (b) The reticence of China to furnish anyone with clear information on what is happening in Tibet


  • #27
    MasterSun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭MasterSun


    Cliste wrote: »
    What exactly did Gormley say?



    Respect for human rights must extend to all cultures and countries. One country which has been exploited and suppressed and suffered for far too long is Tibet. We condemn unequivocally the flagrant abuse of human rights by the Chinese government and call on the Chinese government to enter dialogue with the Dalai Lama.
    extracted form Gormley 's speech

    after the Chinese ambassador Liu Biwei walked out, Mr. Liu said it was 'totally wrong' to describe Tibet as a country, and claimed Mr Gormley had accused the Chinese government without knowing what was truly happening there.


  • #28
    OK-Cancel-Apply
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭OK-Cancel-Apply


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by OK-Cancel-Apply viewpost.gif
    After all, we are violating both our own constitution and international law by allowing the U.S. military through Shannon.

    No we aren't.
    There is a UN mandate calling for aid to the war effort in Iraq.
    There is nothing in our Constitution to stop us helping out.

    British MP and anti-war campaigner George Galloway told Bertie Ahern that allowing the United States armed forces through Shannon airport was a direct violation of the Irish Constitution, and Bertie's reply was, "Yeah, true enough..."

    Also, by your reasoning, the US and UK are perfectly justified in being there, because they are 'helping out' too.


  • #29
    edanto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    Jaysus it's bad enough that every China thread is descending into the same kindof discussion without mixing Iraq into it.

    Yawtin, mind if I repeat the questions?

    Where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative?

    Here's an example site - it's very pro-Tibet, but it does have an interesting page giving at least two of the views on the history.

    http://www.rangzen.com/history/views.htm
    Sample

    World Governments Do Not Recognize Tibet: China's Perspective
    China asserts that no country has ever recognized Tibet. China also contends that Britain masterminded the Simla Conference (1913-1914) in collusion with Tibetan pro-British individuals. Both wanted to separate Tibet from China. At the time of the Simla Conference, even though the "McMahon Line" was negotiated between Tibet and Britain, at the end of the tripartite conference on Tibet's status and boundaries, Chinese officials who were present refused to recognize the "Line" on the grounds that Tibet was subordinate to China and had no power to make any treaties.

    World Governments Recognize Tibet: The Tibetan Perspective
    International law states that recognition can occur by explicit or implicit acts including treaties, negotiations, and diplomatic relations. Mongolia and Tibet signed a formal treaty of recognition in 1913. Historically, Nepal and Tibet had peace treaties. Tibetºs independence was also confirmed at the Treaty of Simla (1914) which was concluded by Tibet and British India.
    In 1949, Tibet maintained diplomatic, economic, and cultural relations with such countries as Nepal, Sikkim, Mongolia, China, British India, and to some extent, Russia and Japan. Further, Nepal maintained an Ambassador in Lhasa and told the U.N. in 1949 that it conducted international relations with Tibet. In fact, Britian, Bhutan, India, and even China also maintained diplomatic missions in Tibet's capitol, Lhasa.
    The Tibetan Foreign Office conducted talks with President Franklin D. Roosevelt when he sent representatives to Lhasa to discuss the allied war effort against Japan during World War II. In 1950, El Salvador formally requested that China's aggression against Tibet be placed on the agenda of the U.N. General Assembly. The issue was not discussed. However, during four U.N. General Assembly debates on Tibet (1959, 1960, 1961, & 1965), many countries (e.g., Philippines, Nicaragua, Thailand. United States, Ireland) openly stated that Tibet was an independent country illegally occupied by China.


  • #30
    Tomas_V
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭Tomas_V


    MasterSun wrote: »
    after the Chinese ambassador Liu Biwei walked out, Mr. Liu said it was 'totally wrong' to describe Tibet as a country, and claimed Mr Gormley had accused the Chinese government without knowing what was truly happening there.
    I wonder why he made a big scene instead of sending a diplomatic note to the government?

    It seems to me that China is mostly interested in communicating its anger with world.


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  • #31
    Captain Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭Captain Slow


    Tomas_V wrote: »
    I just spent one hour watching CCTV9's official rant on Tibet followed by the more mellow BBC program by Dan Cruikshank.

    China needs to do some anger management, they may have valid points to make but they're clueless about getting people to listen.

    Well, westen people are clueless about Tibet, all you know is what you get from your media, but Tibet is part of China, more than 200 coutries recognise it as part of China and that's a fact!


  • #32
    Captain Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭Captain Slow


    jimbo78 wrote: »
    Typical of Chinas attitude to this whole thing.
    First time I've ever agreed with Gormley

    Think about it, in reality, typical Irish only knows drinking...... No culture..... Shame....


  • #33
    Captain Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭Captain Slow


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    Looks like someone was told by Beijing to get some valuable propaganda footage for State TV.

    What a great State? I guess.

    Only has two channels...... Need a bit more than that for some valuable propaganda footage.


  • #34
    yawtin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭yawtin


    edanto wrote: »
    Yawtin, where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative? You could well be right - I'm not saying I know any better - I'm just interested in the credibility of your claim.


    Yes I do know it very well.

    Dalai is a Mongolian word. it means Ocean.

    The 5th Dalai Lama unified Tibet with the help of Mongol Armys, he went to see the second emperor of Qing Dynasty in 1652 and was granted the status of governer of Tibet.

    note: Qing was established by Man ethnic group, which was one group that came from Mongolia.

    The Qing emperor feared that Dalai would have too much power as he then became the political and spiritual leader of Tibet, therefore a few years later they decided to blance the power by giving Panchen Lama equal status as Dalai Lama. The reincarnation of new Dalai or Panchan had to be approved by Qing government representatives.

    The 14th Dalai Lama, the one that you know of, was approved by the Republic of China Government. His closest teacher was supported by the British Colonizers in India.

    When Mao won the civil war with the Chinese Nationalist Party/KMD, he disclaimed all Treaties with international Colonizers. The 10th Panchan Though this should apply to Tibet as well so he invited Mao's Army to come into Tibet.

    The Tibet's Pro-Britain, slavey owner controled government still wanted independency, so they had war with mao's Army but lost all the battles. That is what you call invasion.

    Read this yourself:The Dragon in the Land of Snows
    http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/shakya-dragon.html

    On Dalai's "friendship" with Mao, you can see photos from this link: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=24547

    He also wrote a poem in 1956 to praised Mao as the Sun, the Mother and the reincarnation of a powerful god. That is why many Tibetans still hung the photo of Mao in their room. Maybe he was the start of the movement of making Mao a god.


  • #35
    Captain Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭Captain Slow


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    The Ambassador walked out soon after Gormley said the Chinese govt. should speak with the Dalai Lama. Who as we all know from that bastion of press freedom that is Chinese state TV is an evil man.:rolleyes:

    Don't think you should talk about press freedom either, RTE reported the pro-tibetan protest at GPO last month which was on a very small scale, but none of yesterday's massive pro-china protest footage was on your so-called state tv, obviously your media is biased. On a higher note, all Irish government will do in such a international affair is following the Americans, cause they such a great country, it cann't form its independent opinions.


  • #36
    yawtin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭yawtin


    I know you guys think the Chinese government as rather stupid when it comes to media control.

    Guess what, most Chinese agree with you on that. The Central Propaganda Department of China is regarded as the most backwards department. The reformation of it is a battle between the old and the new, and it is controled by the oppositions of the current President and Prime Ministor of China who are very popular among Chinese people.

    Read this article: Declaration of the Campaign against The Central Propaganda Department, by JIAN Guobiao. http://msittig.freeshell.org/docs/jian_guobiao_essay_utf8.html

    The English Translation is at the bottom half of the page. the author is a very popular professor in Beijing University, where most of the "Tiananmen" student leaders come from.


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  • #37
    Captain Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭Captain Slow


    Cliste wrote: »
    By calling for dialogue,

    to be fair now, a bit of talking never hurt a politically unstable situation

    Totally agree, but not now, it is not the right moment.

    The foundamental thing is DL chose 2008 to speak out is to use the olympic influence to let his voice heard, but it is a bad decision because the olympic provides opportunity for people around the world to be united together, merge the differences in religion and backgroud, there should not be politics in olympic.

    If chinese government gives in after the pressure from the world, I guess there will be something politic going on in every olympic in the future. Are we happy to see that happening? Can't we just have a fun fair, and perfect game and enjoy and forget all the gobsxxte!


  • #38
    Capital Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Capital Slow


    I can tell you many sources, but I bet you can't read them, cause the Irish can only read English.:rolleyes:

    edanto wrote: »
    Jaysus it's bad enough that every China thread is descending into the same kindof discussion without mixing Iraq into it.

    Yawtin, mind if I repeat the questions?

    Where did you learn that history of pre 1959 Tibet? Can you link to any sources on the net to support that narrative?

    Here's an example site - it's very pro-Tibet, but it does have an interesting page giving at least two of the views on the history.

    http://www.rangzen.com/history/views.htm
    Sample

    World Governments Do Not Recognize Tibet: China's Perspective
    China asserts that no country has ever recognized Tibet. China also contends that Britain masterminded the Simla Conference (1913-1914) in collusion with Tibetan pro-British individuals. Both wanted to separate Tibet from China. At the time of the Simla Conference, even though the "McMahon Line" was negotiated between Tibet and Britain, at the end of the tripartite conference on Tibet's status and boundaries, Chinese officials who were present refused to recognize the "Line" on the grounds that Tibet was subordinate to China and had no power to make any treaties.

    World Governments Recognize Tibet: The Tibetan Perspective
    International law states that recognition can occur by explicit or implicit acts including treaties, negotiations, and diplomatic relations. Mongolia and Tibet signed a formal treaty of recognition in 1913. Historically, Nepal and Tibet had peace treaties. Tibetºs independence was also confirmed at the Treaty of Simla (1914) which was concluded by Tibet and British India.
    In 1949, Tibet maintained diplomatic, economic, and cultural relations with such countries as Nepal, Sikkim, Mongolia, China, British India, and to some extent, Russia and Japan. Further, Nepal maintained an Ambassador in Lhasa and told the U.N. in 1949 that it conducted international relations with Tibet. In fact, Britian, Bhutan, India, and even China also maintained diplomatic missions in Tibet's capitol, Lhasa.
    The Tibetan Foreign Office conducted talks with President Franklin D. Roosevelt when he sent representatives to Lhasa to discuss the allied war effort against Japan during World War II. In 1950, El Salvador formally requested that China's aggression against Tibet be placed on the agenda of the U.N. General Assembly. The issue was not discussed. However, during four U.N. General Assembly debates on Tibet (1959, 1960, 1961, & 1965), many countries (e.g., Philippines, Nicaragua, Thailand. United States, Ireland) openly stated that Tibet was an independent country illegally occupied by China.


  • #39
    Grudaire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    Capital Slow wrote: »
    I can tell you many sources, but I bet you can't read them, cause the Irish can only read English.:rolleyes:

    Well if you're offering them in Irish I'm listening!


  • #40
    Capital Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Capital Slow


    Cliste wrote: »
    ...he wants to keep getting our money?:rolleyes:

    If you think like that, you better think again.

    Did you see the 6.1 news, if you didn't watch it the 9 o'clock one.

    Oh, in case you miss that as well, here is the figure Ireland export €5billions:rolleyes: to China each year and import only €2billion, we can spend the 5 elsewhere, obviously Ireland is not the only country in the world produce software and potatoes, we can get on with it without buying from you, but your economy will not be:(.


  • #41
    Denis Irwin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Denis Irwin


    Good to see the Chinese aren't afraid to use bully boy tactics in trying to prevent other countries in speaking out on Tibet by basically saying speak out about Tibet again and we'll take our money out. Well Mr Ambassador if you don't like what you hear in a country that gives everbody the right to free speech unlike your own country then you know where the Airport is.


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  • #42
    Capital Slow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 50 ✭✭Capital Slow


    Cliste wrote: »
    Well if you're offering them in Irish I'm listening!
    With all respect, the message I am trying to confer is different source provides different "fact", the history we learnt in China is Tibet was ours and I am sure your argument will be our history lessons wasn't true from what you get on BBC, Wiki, or whatever, therefore we can argue this for ages and never come up anything.

    But the thing is it is our internal affair, we don't need the nosy western media come in and comment, thanks very much.

    plus the reason why we banned a lot of western press was preventing they are tearing our country apart when they try to inject a lot of human right into our thinking as what American does the best when they treat the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay detention camp. So, if the country can't even do what they promote, why bother campaigning about others.


  • #43
    meathstevie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    yawtin wrote: »
    Yes I do know it very well.

    Dalai is a Mongolian word. it means Ocean.

    The 5th Dalai Lama unified Tibet with the help of Mongol Armys, he went to see the second emperor of Qing Dynasty in 1652 and was granted the status of governer of Tibet.

    note: Qing was established by Man ethnic group, which was one group that came from Mongolia.

    The Qing emperor feared that Dalai would have too much power as he then became the political and spiritual leader of Tibet, therefore a few years later they decided to blance the power by giving Panchen Lama equal status as Dalai Lama. The reincarnation of new Dalai or Panchan had to be approved by Qing government representatives.

    The 14th Dalai Lama, the one that you know of, was approved by the Republic of China Government. His closest teacher was supported by the British Colonizers in India.

    When Mao won the civil war with the Chinese Nationalist Party/KMD, he disclaimed all Treaties with international Colonizers. The 10th Panchan Though this should apply to Tibet as well so he invited Mao's Army to come into Tibet.

    The Tibet's Pro-Britain, slavey owner controled government still wanted independency, so they had war with mao's Army but lost all the battles. That is what you call invasion.

    Read this yourself:The Dragon in the Land of Snows
    http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/shakya-dragon.html

    On Dalai's "friendship" with Mao, you can see photos from this link: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=24547

    He also wrote a poem in 1956 to praised Mao as the Sun, the Mother and the reincarnation of a powerful god. That is why many Tibetans still hung the photo of Mao in their room. Maybe he was the start of the movement of making Mao a god.


    Eeh..is this the same Mao who organised "The Great Leap Forward" aka the "Feck Up and Industrial Disaster of the Millenium in China" and the "Cultural Revolution" aka "Nearly Fatal National Brain Amputation".

    Even if what is being being claimed on the Chinese side of the conflict is true then we really should't give a hoot about the whole lot. One dictatorship replaced the other and to hell with the disposable little people. :rolleyes:


  • #44
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    Capital Slow wrote: »
    Oh, in case you miss that as well, here is the figure Ireland export €5billions:rolleyes: to China each year and import only €2billion, we can spend the 5 elsewhere, obviously Ireland is not the only country in the world produce software and potatoes, we can get on with it without buying from you, but your economy will not be:(.

    where the hell did you pluck that figure out of? i've never seen figures that large mentioned before...

    nor have i seen any that suggest we are a net exporter to China... :/


  • #45
    yawtin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭yawtin


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    Good to see the Chinese aren't afraid to use bully boy tactics in trying to prevent other countries in speaking out on Tibet by basically saying speak out about Tibet again and we'll take our money out.

    You have to learn who's being bullied first.
    Western media has a track record of demonize China. We used to be quiet because we thought reporting negatively is the common practice of western media on just about anything, and they are just against a communist government.

    This time we can no long be silent. It has become apparent that western media is actually against Chinese people in general and our voice gets very little respect.

    Fine, said many of us around the world. We will do whatever it takes for them to realise they can no longer neglect our opinion. That is why there has being 5 pro-china protests around the world this weekend, and that is why at least 5 more protests will be on the way next week. Well you probably wont hear anything about any of them, because your stupid media does not want you to hear our opinion.


  • #46
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,315 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Capital Slow wrote: »
    plus the reason why we banned a lot of western press was preventing they are tearing our country apart when they try to inject a lot of human right into our thinking as what American does the best when they treat the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay detention camp. So, if the country can't even do what they promote, why bother campaigning about others.
    You banned western media due to one country?:eek:
    Captain Slow wrote: »
    Don't think you should talk about press freedom either, RTE reported the pro-tibetan protest at GPO last month which was on a very small scale, but none of yesterday's massive pro-china protest footage was on your so-called state tv, obviously your media is biased. On a higher note, all Irish government will do in such a international affair is following the Americans, cause they such a great country, it cann't form its independent opinions.
    Did the chinese (most of whom I can see are all students) tell the press about the pro-China "protest" happening on a Saturday?
    Capital Slow wrote: »
    I can tell you many sources, but I bet you can't read them, cause the Irish can only read English.:rolleyes:
    Due to the English.


  • #47
    yawtin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51 ✭✭yawtin


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    where the hell did you pluck that figure out of? i've never seen figures that large mentioned before...

    nor have i seen any that suggest we are a net exporter to China... :/

    the fact that you did not see it does not mean it doesn't exist.

    Next time you should ask the CEO of Kerry group if their butter is on display in Carrefour in China.

    God bless the enterprise board of Ireland. They tried so hard to get into the Chinese market and now Gormley's remark is probably giving them a heart attack.


    I guess national interest is not Irish people's cup of tea after all


  • #48
    Pro C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Pro C


    Denis Irwin wrote: »
    Good to see the Chinese aren't afraid to use bully boy tactics in trying to prevent other countries in speaking out on Tibet by basically saying speak out about Tibet again and we'll take our money out. Well Mr Ambassador if you don't like what you hear in a country that gives everbody the right to free speech unlike your own country then you know where the Airport is.

    Here is one for you, my friend Captain Slow was trying to express his opinion on this thread, and his profile was subsequently banned from Boards.ie because he is pro-China, so we can't really enjoy free speech here either, it is really a slap on your own face, I am afraid.

    Oh, in this case you know where the Airport is.


  • #49
    Denis Irwin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 684 ✭✭✭Denis Irwin


    Pro C wrote: »
    Here is one for you, my friend Captain Slow was trying to express his opinion on this thread, and his profile was subsequently banned from Boards.ie because he is pro-China, so we can't really enjoy free speech here either, it is really a slap on your own face, I am afraid.

    Oh, in this case you know where the Airport is.


    I'm Irish and from Dublin so thanks I do know where the Airport is and don't need to use it as I'm not going on holidays just yet.:)


  • #50
    leninbenjamin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,983 ✭✭✭leninbenjamin


    yawtin wrote: »
    the fact that you did not see it does not mean it doesn't exist.

    if you'll look carefully in my previous post I linked to the most recent article i could remember that went into such details about the level of trade with China (albiet i should have made it more obvious). the TWO WAY trade for 2006 was around 5.5 with, the net effect on CHINA's side. unless you can provide me with definitive evidence to the contrary I will continue to believe you just plucked those figures out of your ass.

    i once saw something out of the corner of my that looked like the flying spaghetti monster sitting on my windowsill outside. therefore the flying spaghetti monster must exist!!!


  • #51
    Pro C
    Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Pro C


    leninbenjamin wrote: »
    where the hell did you pluck that figure out of? i've never seen figures that large mentioned before...

    nor have i seen any that suggest we are a net exporter to China... :/

    It is in the 6.1 news, it may be on 9 o'clock again.

    It doesn't really matter whether net exporter or not, just say Ireland export 2 billions to china each year, how many percentage does that account for Total Irish export? Whereas 5billion for china is a drop of the ocean.

    China can really can live without those 5billion.


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