Weight Loss Surgery?

justsomebloke · 23-04-2008 11:02AM

then in the future just show some self control.

The fact that someone is willing to go through elective surgery rather then showing some self control in the future really does go to prove Dragan's point

Sleepy · 23-04-2008 11:07AM

jezza wrote: »

Oh I control my portions very well.
I just think it'd be a good thing for me to do.
In years to come, I don't want to be in double digits.

So you'd rather have a fairly horrendous scar and never be able to enjoy a large meal or a treat day just because you feel you're incapable of exercising self-control?

The Sweeper · 23-04-2008 11:47AM

jsb wrote: »

sorry WTF are you on about, You can "visualise" what morbidly obese people are putting into them:rolleyes:

If you actually read my post properly you'll see you're saying pretty much the same thing as I'm saying.

Jules · 23-04-2008 11:54AM

Sleepy wrote: »

While there are medical conditions which can cause weight issues, there's none known to man which causes someone to be clinically obese. Those medical conditions that do effect weight are also incredibly rare and just make it *harder* for someone to maintain a perfect weight, not impossible.

Only sloth, gluttony and ignorance can cause someone to be clinically obese.

Sleepy, i am neither a glutton, sloth or ignorant. But i have a weight issue. Now i do have hypothyroidism and pcos, which went undiagnoised for years. And my doctor like you was ignorant and thought i was just a fat lazy person.
fatigue, exhaustion,
feeling run down and sluggish,
depression
difficulty concentrating, brain fog
unexplained or excessive weight gain
dry, coarse and/or itchy skin
dry, coarse and/or thinning hair
feeling cold, especially in the extremities
muscle cramps
infertility/miscarriage
are some of the other symptoms of hypothyroidism. And it is also one of the most undiagnoised conditions in the world. And is extremely common. So please don't sit there and think that you can label people as fat lazy and should be allowed to die. Stop being ignorant and just plain rude.

Dragan · 23-04-2008 12:27PM

Jules wrote: »

And it is also one of the most undiagnoised conditions in the world. And is extremely common. So please don't sit there and think that you can label people as fat lazy and should be allowed to die. Stop being ignorant and just plain rude.

With all due respect Jules, and i do not mean to make light of your medical condition whatsoever there is a massive difference between where i can only assume you are and the very morbidly obese. I have worked with several people who have had EXTREME weight issues and i mean the very, very top end of obese ( which i assume is also what Sleepy is referring to ) and even in situations where i have not being working as a PT i have gone out of my way to help them.

Doing up diets, asking them to keep food logs, meeting them for walks and all the rest of it and the simple fact of the matter is that in my experience i have never, ever met someone who is at the top end of being very obese who has even close to a good diet. In fact, in my experience i have yet to meet or try and help someone who wasn't eating 5000+ calories a day.

Now then 5000 calories plus a day is an area that i would reserve for those who are HIGHLY physically active, their diet is very cleverly timed and constructed and they normally have a goal of muscular increase in mind.

I'm not trying to oversimplify things but there are people like you who do what they can and their are people who do nothing at all except slowly eat themselves to death.

It is only the latter that i have any issue with, and even then it is only because they really can do something about it if they try hard enough.

Jules · 23-04-2008 12:34PM

I agree with you Drag but you don't come across with the igorant opinions that certain posters do. And no i am not morbidly obease or even near it. But Its the generalisation that everyone who is fat is lazy and eating constantly that pisses me right off.

Dragan · 23-04-2008 12:42PM

Jules wrote: »

I agree with you Drag but you don't come across with the igorant opinions that certain posters do. And no i am not morbidly obease or even near it. But Its the generalisation that everyone who is fat is lazy and eating constantly that pisses me right off.

Cheers Jules. I agree with you. To be honest, when i was heavily overweight the only reason was purely my own laziness. Sure, i got put out of physical activity due to injury and ate more than i should due to depression but after that it was entirely my own issue. My body healed as did my mind but i kept eating and not moving!

However, to lump everyone into the same catagory i was in is pointless and foolish and doesn't really help anyone.

Sleepy · 23-04-2008 01:13PM

Jules wrote: »

And no i am not morbidly obease or even near it. But Its the generalisation that everyone who is fat is lazy and eating constantly that pisses me right off.

So, you personally prove my point: despite having two medical conditions which make it harder for you to maintain a healthy weight you're not morbidly obese or even near it.

So what's anyone else's excuse for being so?

There is none.

I've never heard of a morbidly obese person who was of any worth to humanity. Every time I've seen a program on television about someone who's let themselves get to that state they're sponging off the taxpayer. So, I'm sorry, I don't consider it harsh to say they should be let kill themselves. I feel zero responsibility for someone else's actions. I will not apologise for believing in personal responsibility.

Wibbs · 23-04-2008 02:25PM

jezza wrote: »

So I won't put on weight.
It would only allow me eat a little each day

I'm with Dragon on this one. Your brain and personal responsibility for whatever size you want to be will do the same thing at no cost.

ztoical · 23-04-2008 02:39PM

Sleepy wrote: »

So what's anyone else's excuse for being so?

There is none.

Stress, emotional abuse, bulling, depression - there's lots of reasons why someone might gain weight thats not related to being lazy. Speaking from expirence here - I hit puberty at 9 alot earlier then anyone else in my school, overnight I went from scrawny flat chested girl to someone with a prefect hour glass figure, boobs and horrible bloating PMS once a month. It was all well enough for the adults to tell me it was ok and everyone else would catch up but I was teased endlessly to the point were I stopped going out. I wasn't stuffing my face with chocolate and sweets but I also wasn't active anymore cus there was no way to go out without hearing rude/horrible comments.

Around 2nd year in secondary school everyone had caught up but by that stage I was overweight and caught in that horrible circle of trying to loose the weight but still suffering abuse when I went outside - getting teased by perfect strangers [walking along the road near my house young lads driving by would shout out really awful things, that I can't even bring myself to type, at me - what harm was I a chubby 13 year old walking along the road causing them?] I was in boarding school so my meals were controlled there were no sweets and PE [basketball, swimming, tennis] after school for two hours everyday but I stayed chubby, was really fit, could out run most of the people in my class but the weight was still there and that lead to depression, I started cutting my arms and legs, and feeling like total **** 24 7.

I was miserable all the way through school. The school didn't care, parents didn't care. Got past it all by going to college far away from my home town, never going home cept for xmas and not keeping in touch with a single person from that period of my life.

I love all the people who come here and go on about how lazy fat people are and its their own fault cus all they've done is eat to much and sit on their fat asses all day. Well it must be so nice up there in your shinny ivory tower looking down and judging other people when you don't know them or what they've gone through. Like the abortion thread on here - everything is a case by case situation - don't be so quick to judge.

For someone to loose alot of weight it takes at least a year - anyone who comes on here and says you can do it faster either [a]doesn't work full time and can go to the gym more the once a day or is planning to crash diet which will just put the weight back on again - to loose it in a healthy way and keep it off it takes time and during that time your still getting all the abuse, the vast majority of which is from perfect strangers. Its very easy to say f*ck why bother. If I came on here and said I was driven to drink or drugs due to bullying people would be all awwww that sucks people can be so cruel but being driven to gain weight all you get is suck it up, life is hard deal with it and stop being lazy.

Mods sorry for the rant and lack of spell check.

justsomebloke · 23-04-2008 03:08PM

ztoical wrote: »

I love all the people who come here and go on about how lazy fat people are and its their own fault cus all they've done is eat to much and sit on their fat asses all day.

Or maybe they are the type of people who where like that and decided that it was time to take responsibility of the decision they make and the shape they were in.

I have admitted time and time again that I was fat obese however I made the decision to stop making excuses and do something about it. Did it take time, yes probably over 2 years to get from over 16 stone to down to just over 12 stone, but rather then stand around giving excuses I took responsibility for the fact that the only reason I was fat was me and that I was the only person who could make me lose it.

Now a few years later I am back to around 15 stone however I have the least amount of BF I have ever had and loving my life. I also know at least one other person you think you are talking about is it the same boat.

Wibbs · 23-04-2008 03:13PM

Jules wrote: »

Sleepy, i am neither a glutton, sloth or ignorant. But i have a weight issue. Now i do have hypothyroidism and pcos,

Not easy for you. I knew someone with pcos on its own and that was hard enough for her. Hypothyroidism seems to be on the increase too.

While medical complaints(the above and some women apparently have a gene that causes increase in appetite and weight gain after pregnancy, etc) do effect many people so nobody can make a snap judgement on somebody, I do feel that for the vast majority of men and women it's down to the food and lack of exercise. If it was genetic or disease processes for most then our grandparents would have been fat to the same degree as today. They weren't. I see it in my skinny or fat friends. Outside of exercise, the skinny ones eat less or very differently and the fat ones eat more. It helps that the skinny ones have much less appetite too, so it is easy for them to say eat less.

Sleepy wrote:

I've never heard of a morbidly obese person who was of any worth to humanity.

So Winston Churchill, alfred Hitchcock and Orson welles to name but three who would be considered well on the way to morbid obesity were useless to humanity then? Two of them were smokers too. Gasp horror!:eek: Mostly gasp though....

There was a fair few porky buggers in the past who did alright.

So, I'm sorry, I don't consider it harsh to say they should be let kill themselves.

Like the depressed or any other group that don't measure up? OK obesity is not good. That I agree with, but someone who is morbidly obese to that degree has got a problem, not easily solved by the "eat less, move more mantra". It's very very close to saying to a clinically depressed person "pull yourself together". I am not one of these muppets who seeks to medicalise every human failing. I actually find that idea de jour a right pain. Take this pill and forget about personal responsibility types. No way, but the extremes need help, not ridicule.

I judge a society by how it treats it's fringe. The one's who don't measure up or belong to the majority or the ideals of that majority. I also judge a person not by how they judge others by their own criteria, but how they judge them by objective external criteria and by how they know and judge themselves.

I know a woman who is obese. Very, and she is raising kids of her own and foster kids to boot(they're skinny BTW). She volunteers for a hell of a lot of charity work and holds down a part time job while emotionally supporting a husband who adores her. The woman is a fúcking hero in my opinion, yet in yours she would be lesser the second you clapped eyes on her. Which one of you contributes more to the society you find yourself in? Unless you're bob geldof that would be her then. Which of you could afford to be the more judgemental yet isn't? That would be her again. She isnt just a one off either. I'm not suggesting for a second that fat people are jolly or any of that nonsense, but being fat does not preclude one from being a valuable member of society.

To be fair I have agreed with your stance on other points and I really abhor pulling this particular card but you've got some growing to do.

Dragan · 23-04-2008 03:14PM

ztoical wrote: »

I love all the people who come here and go on about how lazy fat people are and its their own fault cus all they've done is eat to much and sit on their fat asses all day. Well it must be so nice up there in your shinny ivory tower looking down and judging other people when you don't know them or what they've gone through.

While i appreciate what you have been through you seem to be just as guilty of this yourself. I mean, everyone who is in good physical condition has had it easy, right?

In fairness, all you see of people here are attitudes, once again you have no idea of who they were or what they were before they made the effort to get in shape.

ztoical · 23-04-2008 03:27PM

Dragan wrote: »

While i appreciate what you have been through you seem to be just as guilty of this yourself. I mean, everyone who is in good physical condition has had it easy, right?

In fairness, all you see of people here are attitudes, once again you have no idea of who they were or what they were before they made the effort to get in shape.

I don't think people who are in good physical condition have it easy at all and I'm sorry for my choice of words there - it was just a gut reaction rant [and I'm the first to tell people not to do those on the internet cus you always wind up getting in ****] to a comment that fat people should just die and its no ones fault but their own. We all effect other people every single day wither we think we do or not.

Dragan · 23-04-2008 03:30PM

ztoical wrote: »

I don't think people who are in good physical condition have it easy at all and I'm sorry for my choice of words there - it was just a gut reaction rant [and I'm the first to tell people not to do those on the internet cus you always wind up getting in ****] to a comment that fat people should just die and its no ones fault but their own. We all effect other people every single day wither we think we do or not.

Ah, if i had of been thinking about it i would have realised that. Apologies for calling you on a point that should have been obvious!:o

23-04-2008 04:42PM

That just horrific Ztocial. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Can't imagine what kind of loser scumbag gets their kicks from hurling abuse at teenage girls.

Sleepy · 23-04-2008 06:31PM

Wibbs wrote: »

So Winston Churchill, alfred Hitchcock and Orson welles to name but three who would be considered well on the way to morbid obesity were useless to humanity then? Two of them were smokers too. Gasp horror!:eek: Mostly gasp though.... There was a fair few porky buggers in the past who did alright. Like the depressed or any other group that don't measure up? OK obesity is not good. That I agree with, but someone who is morbidly obese to that degree has got a problem, not easily solved by the "eat less, move more mantra". It's very very close to saying to a clinically depressed person "pull yourself together". I am not one of these muppets who seeks to medicalise every human failing. I actually find that idea de jour a right pain. Take this pill and forget about personal responsibility types. No way, but the extremes need help, not ridicule...

I know a woman who is obese. Very, and she is raising kids of her own and foster kids to boot(they're skinny BTW). She volunteers for a hell of a lot of charity work and holds down a part time job while emotionally supporting a husband who adores her. The woman is a fúcking hero in my opinion, yet in yours she would be lesser the second you clapped eyes on her. Which one of you contributes more to the society you find yourself in? Unless you're bob geldof that would be her then. Which of you could afford to be the more judgemental yet isn't? That would be her again. She isnt just a one off either. I'm not suggesting for a second that fat people are jolly or any of that nonsense, but being fat does not preclude one from being a valuable member of society.

To be fair I have agreed with your stance on other points and I really abhor pulling this particular card but you've got some growing to do.

Wibbs, it seems like you're quicker to label someone as morbidly obese than me. Sure, plenty of overweight people have lived productive lives. I'd be referring to those who are incapable of living a normal life, you know, the disgusting heaps who need the fire brigade to help them out of bed. If you're that incapable of fending for yourself through your own actions, I don't think society has any obligation to help you. I'm not talking about someone with a disability or someone who fate has dealt a harsh blow to, I'm talking about people who through laziness, ignorance and gluttony are killing themselves. I'd have the same reaction to someone who's shoving tons of coke up their nose. Don't expect me to pity you when you've brought something on yourself. I'm not going to "grow out" of that opinion.

ztoical - it takes at least two people to bully: one to try it and another to let them. Most people are miserable in school. Most people have to stand up to bullies at some time or other, moving around the country a fair bit as a kid I got plenty of tauntings (and kickings) myself. You chose to let your bullies' actions define you, I chose (and still choose) to let peoples actions define them, not me. Feeling sorry for yourself in your room made your situation worse. Had you shrugged off the comments and stuck to your exercise you could've shifted the weight. Sure, it's terrible that you didn't have someone there to tell you that at the time but if you don't accept responsibility for your own life, you'll never have any degree of control over it.

I'm not a perfect person in my eyes or anyone elses. I've made huge mistakes in my past that have left me in positions in some parts of my life that I really wish I could change. There's no changing the past. There's no changing the present. Accept that both came about through your own actions, however, and you'll come to the realisations that your actions of today will, to a very large extent, determine your tomorrow.

tallaght01 · 25-04-2008 02:56PM

ztoical wrote: »

Stress, emotional abuse, bulling, depression - there's lots of reasons why someone might gain weight thats not related to being lazy.

I love all the people who come here and go on about how lazy fat people are and its their own fault cus all they've done is eat to much and sit on their fat asses all day. Well it must be so nice up there in your shinny ivory tower looking down and judging other people when you don't know them or what they've gone through. .

.

What an insightful post. When you speak a large portion (no pun intended :pac: ) of overweight people, they have a multitude of problems.

People who are down in themselves struggle to motivate themselves for a year of weight loss. Also, eating foods that are bad for you are the only happiness some people get.

Weight loss is a much more complex issue than people think it is.

It's also no coincidence that obesity is much more common the lower your socio-economic status.

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd be referring to those who are incapable of living a normal life, you know, the disgusting heaps who need the fire brigade to help them out of bed. If you're that incapable of fending for yourself through your own actions, I don't think society has any obligation to help you. I'm not talking about someone with a disability or someone who fate has dealt a harsh blow to, I'm talking about people who through laziness, ignorance and gluttony are killing themselves.

.

It's those type of people that you're describing that need help the most. They might not have a medical condition by your way of thinking, like hypothyroidism or something else we can diagnose on a blood test. But they most definitely have a medical condition. Overeating to near death is a medical condition. It is at the very least a serious psychiatric condition. The underlying reasons for it certainly require some kind of intervention.

They're not just lazy, bad people. They are vulnerable people, and society HAS got an obligation to protect our most vulnerable, whether or not you think they are below contempt.

ali.c · 26-04-2008 10:19PM

Sleepy wrote:

It seems like you're quicker to label someone as morbidly obese than me. Sure, plenty of overweight people have lived productive lives. I'd be referring to those who are incapable of living a normal life, you know, the disgusting heaps who need the fire brigade to help them out of bed. If you're that incapable of fending for yourself through your own actions, I don't think society has any obligation to help you. I'm not talking about someone with a disability or someone who fate has dealt a harsh blow to, I'm talking about people who through laziness, ignorance and gluttony are killing themselves. I'd have the same reaction to someone who's shoving tons of coke up their nose. Don't expect me to pity you when you've brought something on yourself. I'm not going to "grow out" of that opinion.

IMHO its really not as black and white as you explain see it. Loads of people has less obvious issues and for the most part they are treated with a bit more compassion. Personally I think that if someone has gotten to the point of of needing a fire brigade to get out of bed they need help rather than judgement. Also to be fair calling them lazy is a bit like saying anyone who is depressed is lazy sure why cant they just pull themselves together whereas in reality the situation is a lot different. Personally i think people who are eating themselves to death need a help!

@Tallaght01 nice post

The Sweeper · 27-04-2008 05:23AM

Sleepy wrote: »

Wibbs, it seems like you're quicker to label someone as morbidly obese than me. Sure, plenty of overweight people have lived productive lives. I'd be referring to those who are incapable of living a normal life, you know, the disgusting heaps who need the fire brigade to help them out of bed. If you're that incapable of fending for yourself through your own actions, I don't think society has any obligation to help you. I'm not talking about someone with a disability or someone who fate has dealt a harsh blow to, I'm talking about people who through laziness, ignorance and gluttony are killing themselves. I'd have the same reaction to someone who's shoving tons of coke up their nose. Don't expect me to pity you when you've brought something on yourself. I'm not going to "grow out" of that opinion.

ztoical - it takes at least two people to bully: one to try it and another to let them. Most people are miserable in school. Most people have to stand up to bullies at some time or other, moving around the country a fair bit as a kid I got plenty of tauntings (and kickings) myself. You chose to let your bullies' actions define you, I chose (and still choose) to let peoples actions define them, not me. Feeling sorry for yourself in your room made your situation worse. Had you shrugged off the comments and stuck to your exercise you could've shifted the weight. Sure, it's terrible that you didn't have someone there to tell you that at the time but if you don't accept responsibility for your own life, you'll never have any degree of control over it.

I'm not a perfect person in my eyes or anyone elses. I've made huge mistakes in my past that have left me in positions in some parts of my life that I really wish I could change. There's no changing the past. There's no changing the present. Accept that both came about through your own actions, however, and you'll come to the realisations that your actions of today will, to a very large extent, determine your tomorrow.

Sleepy, tone it down.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, and I am not going to threaten to ban you for expressing that opinion, but I'd appreciate if you'd make your language less abusive to readers who may include themselves in the class of people you are describing.

Obese people are one of the last groups that the civilised world globally still finds it acceptable to discriminate against. Obese people are also usually miserable enough about their condition without being on the receiving end of a barrage of abuse about it.

I understand that you strongly believe it's utterly self-inflicted and obese people have nobody to blame but themselves, but I strongly believe that nobody gets to tell a section of society that they are of no worth to humanity and should be allowed to kill themselves because of the way they look.

nesf · 29-04-2008 12:02AM

Sleepy wrote: »

So what's anyone else's excuse for being so?

There is none.

It always amuses me how the most vehement anti-obesity nazis are generally as ignorant of science as those who'd like to think it's their genes or an illness makes them eat 10K calories a day.

nesf · 29-04-2008 01:51AM

As a bit of a digression, this article might raise some heckles: http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/dn13789-blood-pressure-drug-could-help-you-slim.html?feedId=online-news_rss20

g'em · 29-04-2008 10:37AM

nesf wrote: »

As a bit of a digression, this article might raise some heckles: http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/dn13789-blood-pressure-drug-could-help-you-slim.html?feedId=online-news_rss20

meh, drugs whose side-effects include weight-loss are nothing new. Ephedrine and clenbuterol were originally clinically used as bronchodilators/ decongestants before it was realised they doubled up as stimulants, thermogens and appetite suppressors and some SSRI's cause severe nausea which secondarily causes weight loss. The problem is that fat/ weight loss may not be the only side effect but it's the only one reported by the media.

nesf · 29-04-2008 12:31PM

g'em wrote: »

The problem is that fat/ weight loss may not be the only side effect but it's the only one reported by the media.

Indeed. It's similar to the issues created by when said papers start reporting on economic issues.

Sleepy · 29-04-2008 05:21PM

nesf wrote: »

It always amuses me how the most vehement anti-obesity nazis are generally as ignorant of science as those who'd like to think it's their genes or an illness makes them eat 10K calories a day.

nesf, are you saying there's a medical condition that causes obesity to the point we're discussing? If I'm ignorant of the science, why not point me in the direction of something to enlighten me rather than simply label me a nazi? It's surprising to see such a post from you tbh.

majd - warning noted- I do find your playing of the 'discrimination' card to be quite out of context here. We all discriminate against people every day. For example: if a poster wants to discriminate against me by choosing to turn on the ignore button because they don't like my opinion, they're perfectly entitled to do that (and I'm pretty sure someone will quote that last line to inform me they've done so

)

Treating someone in a prejudicial manner because of their ethnicity, sex or sexuality is unacceptable as they have no control over these characteristics. Judging someone by their actions is perfectly acceptable imho.

nesf · 29-04-2008 05:33PM

Sleepy wrote: »

nesf, are you saying there's a medical condition that causes obesity to the point we're discussing? If I'm ignorant of the science, why not point me in the direction of something to enlighten me rather than simply label me a nazi? It's surprising to see such a post from you tbh.

It's an open question, there is no correct answer as of yet and it is not as black or white as most people seem to like to think it is. That is my point. You post about this stuff in a highly confrontational and aggressive manner as if it was a simple question with a simple answer and everyone else is an idiot if they can't see that, but it isn't that simple and you're being unreasonable about it. There's still substantial debate about the exact causation links between obesity, diabetes, genetics etc. Blandly explaining all obese people as being lazy is as misinformed and overly simplistic as some of the crap that you can read in Women's magazines about diets and weight loss.

As for labelling you a nazi, if you act like a prick to other people on here I don't see why I should be any nicer to you.

LaVidaLoca · 29-04-2008 05:40PM

booze and drugs.

Nobody nowadays would say that alcoholics or heroin addicts are simply "lazy" people. People recognise that there's a whole complex of emotional/physical/genetic factors that go into making somebody an alcoholic or a heroin addict.

Why is the same understanding attitude not extended to obese people?

These are people who are quite literally addicted to food and their addiction is killing them. They should be pitied and helped and counselled in just the same way that any other addict is.

Ive always thought it tragic that where other addicts get sympathy, and sometimes even a romantic cachet - the doomed heroin addict cliche (Pete Doherty), and so on, obese people get the total short end of the stick. Nobody wants to shag them and arseholes go around saying that they're just lazy ****ers who cant control themselves.

nesf · 29-04-2008 09:17PM

g'em wrote: »

meh, drugs whose side-effects include weight-loss are nothing new. Ephedrine and clenbuterol were originally clinically used as bronchodilators/ decongestants before it was realised they doubled up as stimulants, thermogens and appetite suppressors and some SSRI's cause severe nausea which secondarily causes weight loss. The problem is that fat/ weight loss may not be the only side effect but it's the only one reported by the media.

To give you a proper answer, I suppose the interesting thing about this drug is that it's main purpose, ie blood pressure reduction, is actually somewhat relevant with those whose weight is seriously out of control and that it's mode of action isn't like an appetite suppressor where it forces lifestyle change but perhaps an affect on how much fat the body creates from a given amount of calories which would be an easier fix and help people cut weight while eating badly.

Of course, assuming that the pill would only affect fat accumulation, their lipids and blood sugar levels would quite possibly be the same as before considering the lack of change in the diet (I'm assuming the person is stupid enough to do this after needing to take medication for their blood pressure and/or reaching a degree of obesity where prescribing this became an option), the problems would simply change from high blood pressure and/or obesity to garden variety diabetes and heart disease territory, but hey, at least they'd look good doing it.

tallaght01 · 30-04-2008 05:16AM

g'em wrote: »

meh, drugs whose side-effects include weight-loss are nothing new. Ephedrine and clenbuterol were originally clinically used as bronchodilators/ decongestants before it was realised they doubled up as stimulants, thermogens and appetite suppressors and some SSRI's cause severe nausea which secondarily causes weight loss. The problem is that fat/ weight loss may not be the only side effect but it's the only one reported by the media.

The difference is that neither of those drugs ever reliably gave sustained weight loss without other nasty metabloic effects.

ACE inhibitors probably won't either, but we know that they're tolerated by a LOT of people.

The important point is not that ACE inhibitors might be useful in weight loss, but that we might have found another part of the puzzle (ie angiotensin converting enzyme - A.C.E) that helps us understand obesity better. That will be the real key in developing an effective treatment.

Sleepy wrote: »

nesf, are you saying there's a medical condition that causes obesity to the point we're discussing? If I'm ignorant of the science, why not point me in the direction of something to enlighten me rather than simply label me a nazi? .

Absoloutely.

Try Prader-willi syndrome for starters.

Then try simple depression.

g'em · 30-04-2008 11:51AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

The difference is that neither of those drugs ever reliably gave sustained weight loss without other nasty metabloic effects.

Good point. On a slightly related note I've always wanted to know what the "success" rate is for people prescibed dedicated weight-loss drugs like Xenical and Silbutramine (granted their mode of action is compeltely different but as a prescribed weight-loss drug I'm curious to know if they work. My guess would be yes, but only alongside lifestyle/ cognitive changes and by addressing the issues that led to weight-loss in the first place... which also begs the question of whether those changes alone and not the medication were responsible for weight loss... chicken and egg?).

Weight Loss Surgery?

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