Unknown vermin problem.

bullets · 12-08-2008 11:55am #1

A workmate of mine mentioned he's having a vermin problem at the moment
and wanted to get info on purchasing a rifle for some general vermin control
and to solve an issue he is having at the moment.

He just spent 5 and a half grand fencing off some 3 acres of land
for his free range chickens.

The Fencing is less then 8 weeks old, Electrified with 3 strands on the outside
and chain link on the inside. Its Pole driven via a Tractor Pole Driver and its
about 4.5 feet high. They were out checking it was all snug/secure and no signs
of anything trying to bury under it. and whatever fancy fence it is its
Dept of Agriculture approved??

The Chickens are nearly 5 weeks old and they were kept indoors for the first 4 weeks
and were just let out to go free range.

Something managed to get past the fencing (or was already inside) and rip the heads clean off 31 of their birds. The Heads were not with the bodies
and the bodies appeared to be dragged towards the fence.

This all happened during the daytime between 13:00 and 16:00.

Their land was near a river which had flooded recently so he thinks it may
have been a Mink maybe rather than a Fox.

There is no sign of damage to the fence or an entry or exit hole.

Chatting to Vegeta earlier he mentioned if it was a Mink it may need to be trapped
rather that Shot as you may not get the chance to see a Mink to even attempt to
take a shot!

Dont want to be encouraging the guy to buy a rifle if he does not need it, but
if the problem is a Fox or something bigger than a Mink I dont want to be
telling him get a .22 if a .22 is not suitable for something fox sized.

Anyone got any suggestions?

(Sounds like something one of my cats would do they tend to rip the heads
off any birds they catch out my back garden)

~B

gofaster_s13 · 12-08-2008 12:03pm

Mink or Stoat, both capable of squeezing through chain link fences(depending on link size) and both tend to overkill when the opportunity arises. Don't know the legalitys of shooting stoats but afaik minks can be killed, will take a lot of patience to find either of these animals .

whitser · 12-08-2008 12:25pm

mink i'd say. but you cant rule out charlie. i've read or heard that foxes will de-head birds when killing en masse, that no heads=fox, dont qoute on that.

foxhunter · 12-08-2008 12:48pm

+1 on the mink vote ive seen it happen in a duck pen before.

cavan shooter · 12-08-2008 1:03pm

Sounds like Mink to me My neighbour was loosing chickens and ducks to beat the band, turned out the little phecker was in the cavity wall of the shed with it's brood, look out for drainage ditches or old pipes and check these out

Red Renard · 12-08-2008 1:10pm

cavan shooter wrote: »

Sounds like Mink to me My neighbour was loosing chickens and ducks to beat the band, turned out the little phecker was in the cavity wall of the shed with it's brood, look out for drainage ditches or old pipes and check these out

Killing machine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9qWfnRuGbY

Vegeta · 12-08-2008 1:38pm

Its a very tough one to know

killing lots of birds (especially near water) is usually put down to mink

Fox are known as much more of a snatch n grab type of animal. Get one and go. Its always hard to rule out a fox though, there are cubs about after all

It did happen during the day too, not usually a foxes most confident time to be out

Also taking the heads off is not something I am familiar with either and was hoping others here would be able to identify the trait.

Either way it looks like your friend has a problem. If its fox, some good old fashion lamping or a few organised shoots around his area might sort his problem. Release the hounds

If its mink I believe trapping might work. We built a pond a few years ago and fenced it for fear of losing the birds.

We built an electrified fence around the pond to keep fox at bay. It was a long way from a river but we put down pipe traps for the mink too. Never caught one though. Only lost 1 duck that year too.

If I was your friend this is what I'd do. Get someone in the local gun club to come and lamp it asap for fox using a few dead birds as bait. Do this for a few nights to see if any reds return.

If its mink its much tougher nut to crack. Unless caught in the act I don't think you'd get a chance to shoot one. They're very small so will probably keep getting in if they want to. Trapping might prove effective but then the question is what type of trap??

whitser · 12-08-2008 1:42pm

what ever did it, he'll be back. so lie in wait with gun for fox or set traps around fence for mink.
if you need some hounds,i know a guy who can help:rolleyes:

J.R. · 12-08-2008 4:51pm

If in Clare / Limerick area could also be Pine Marten (protected)......but my suspicions would be, like others, a mink.

Are there any trees / branches / bushes overhanging the fence that would provide access over the fence.

Jonty · 12-08-2008 5:28pm

+1 for Mr. Mink

IRLConor · 12-08-2008 6:14pm

bullets wrote: »

its about 4.5 feet high.

Stupid city boy question: Is that usually high enough for foxes? How high of an obstacle can a fox clear?

I've seen urban foxes in and out of bins that weren't much shorter than that.

Grizzly 45 · 12-08-2008 8:03pm

Pine Martin or Mink.Tipping towards Mink,as Pineys are more forest dwelling critters.Foxie is more of a night hunter,and more of a digger than a jumper.For fox or dog.4.5 feet is nothing.You would want 6ft minimum for stopping jumpers,and bury 12 ins under the fence line either out or inward facing to prevent diggers.Would say a bunch of traps to see what it is exactly that is lunching on the chicks before getting firepower,and then a good 12GA would be my choice.

cavan shooter · 12-08-2008 9:44pm

Red Renard wrote: »

Killing machine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9qWfnRuGbY

Very good video, it was definitely a mink though, saw him disappear into the wall of the shed after that it was a waiting game

Vegeta · 13-08-2008 8:22am

IRLConor wrote: »

Stupid city boy question: Is that usually high enough for foxes? How high of an obstacle can a fox clear?

I've seen urban foxes in and out of bins that weren't much shorter than that.

Yeah 4.5 feet really is not high enough to stop a fox

CJhaughey · 13-08-2008 1:08pm

What works very well is the electrified poultry netting, you wouldn't think it would work being in contact with the ground but it does.
I lost one of my chickens to something last week, all I found was a couple of small patches of feathers.

Terrier · 14-08-2008 7:25am

Get the mink cage traps down ASAP as if it is a mink he will return. If you locate all the possible points of entry and set cage traps at these points!

meathstevie · 14-08-2008 8:39pm

Has the characteristics of mink more than fox allright. For foxes I'm afraid the fence needs to be a good bit higher ( 2-3 foot at least ) but I wouldn't worry too much about foxes compared to mink. At the end of the day they're fairly easily dealt with if they're raiding chicken pens, mink will take a more crafty approach.

Double Barrel · 14-08-2008 8:50pm

Mink.

oflynno · 19-08-2008 8:09am

my neighbour has a fenced off lake for ducks in a sanctuary and had massive trouble with an otter

if you check the fence at between 12 and 18" from the ground as otters stand on their back legs and pull the fence upwards to see if there are any holes underneath,if it was an otter the fence will be distorted

they do wicked damage,but usually take a bird or 2 with them,lie on their back in cover and munch away

but mink are a scourge,i have seen guys putting live young cocks(the bird) in the traps as bait

CJhaughey · 19-08-2008 9:37am

oflynno wrote: »

if you check the fence at between 12 and 18" from the ground as otters stand on their back legs and pull the fence upwards to see if there are any holes underneath,if it was an otter the fence will be distorted

If you use the electrified netting the otters don't pull it much at all

oflynno · 19-08-2008 10:15am

what if they have gloves on?

donalkennedy · 07-03-2010 8:44pm

definately a mink or pine marten same thing happened to me and i lost all thirty of my bantams....
set traps around our pen but havent caught him yet:mad::mad:

jwshooter · 07-03-2010 9:07pm

oflynno wrote: »

my neighbour has a fenced off lake for ducks in a sanctuary and had massive trouble with an otter

if you check the fence at between 12 and 18" from the ground as otters stand on their back legs and pull the fence upwards to see if there are any holes underneath,if it was an otter the fence will be distorted

they do wicked damage,but usually take a bird or 2 with them,lie on their back in cover and munch away

but mink are a scourge,i have seen guys putting live young cocks(the bird) in the traps as bait

i got eat hear by some egits a while back that reckoned a otter will not take fowl .

deeksofdoom · 07-03-2010 9:40pm

Foxes will bite the heads off and just leave the bodies.

moan 77 · 07-03-2010 9:48pm

It's a mink alright and he will be back that's for defo. Next time the losses could be higher your Biggest problem is finding the entry point, had this problem three years ago i thought it was fox but i shot serveral of them around the pheasant pen but still had massive losses around 40 per visit and had 3 visits in a week. I set pipe traps which are as follows a 4 ft peice of 4" wavin pipe with one end blocked with concrete and broken glass mix, lay the pipe on a slope or bury the blocked end in the ground making sure there is a big fall in the pipe from one end to the other (sure he can walk right up to the open end and into the trap), making sure he cant climb back out. place a small bit of fish outside the open end of pipe and a piece inside the pipe about 18 to 24 inches, when the fecker enters he slips down the pipe and cant get out. also bait some live traps around the more you have the better chance you have. The size of the area you have must be huge, we had only 200 square meter pheasant pen and we had 30 traps. The fence height is a bit low but if you set up a three stand electric fence about 4ft away from main fence he wont jump both, i use the electric netting best job but you pay for what you get.
P.S. If you lamp around you will find foxes cause where there is birds you will have foxes looking for a handy meal but thats life and the fox will come back each and every night he is alive. Let me know how you get on.

greylag · 08-03-2010 1:34pm

more than likely a mink. but could be a pine martin as well. u dont have to be near a forest to have them and thay are country wide. could also be a rogue tom cat as well. i had the same problem with a pen of pheasants, heads eaten off them, i set a cage trap and had a big ginger tomcat in it the next morning. best thing to do is set as many traps as you can around the periminter of the fence. use 3 foot lenghts of 8 inch sewer pipe with mark 6 fenn traps in them. scrape back some clay from either end of the pipes, make it look like a rabbit is using it. u will catch a mink eventually if thats what it is. also set some cage traps with a tin of sardines in it. this will take care of the tomcat.

johngalway · 08-03-2010 1:49pm

Foxes have been known to climb a fence of up to 8 feet tall, with something in their mouth. The best type of "fox proof" fences would have the upper portion of the fence leaning outwards.

He'd clear 4.5 feet with no problems. What's the set up with the electric fence, how far is it from the 4.5 high fence.

I'm suspicious about the heads being bitten off. I thought mink usually bled the animal they attacked? And as Deeks said I have often heard in the past of foxes biting the heads off a bird and leaving the body.

I'd set mink traps, but I'm thinking it's a fox.

I don't think there's 'eff all point in him buying a rifle until he knows what the source of the problem is.

Vegeta · 08-03-2010 2:53pm

Tis a zombie thread folks.

johngalway · 08-03-2010 2:58pm

Balls, never noticed that.

greylag · 08-03-2010 4:30pm

what ya mean?

jap gt · 08-03-2010 4:34pm

greylag wrote: »

what ya mean?

the op was back in 2008, im assuming the op still isnt having trouble 2 years later.

chickenfarmer · 08-03-2010 4:56pm

Nope ! What ever was calling hasn't been around in awhile. We would have lost maybe 100 birds in total last year. (which in the grand scheme is a small number. Each batch is 12,000) We put down Mink traps but caught nothing. There was a load of tyres off the silage pit close to one side of the fence so we moved those. Also cut back some of the growth on the far side of the fence so hopefully that will also help. It was a great excuse to get into shooting tho

Have taken up shooting clays as a result of our queries That year.

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Unknown vermin problem.

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