Is a peaceful 32 united ireland possible

CerebralCortex · 14-10-2008 01:51PM

:rolleyes:

Acacia · 14-10-2008 01:54PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

To answer the OP question, yes it is possible, but only if we kick out the prods:D

Not every Unionist (or person who considers themselves British) is a Protestant. And all Nationalists are not Catholics. Wolfe Tone was a Protestant.

dlofnep · 14-10-2008 02:31PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

To answer the OP question, yes it is possible, but only if we kick out the prods:D

I'm sure Wolfe Tone and Robert Emmet would be proud of you right now.

It's that sort of nonsense that gives nationalists/republicans a bad name. The only way Irish Unity will come about through peace is through mutual understanding, and those kind of comments do not demonstrate that. Grow up.

Kev_ps3 · 14-10-2008 02:54PM

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm sure Wolfe Tone and Robert Emmet would be proud of you right now.

It's that sort of nonsense that gives nationalists/republicans a bad name. The only way Irish Unity will come about through peace is through mutual understanding, and those kind of comments do not demonstrate that. Grow up.

Liberal:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred · 14-10-2008 02:56PM

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

To answer the OP question, yes it is possible, but only if we kick out the prods:D

you tried that in 1922 and look how quick the country went down the pan then

luckat · 15-10-2008 11:06AM

If people concentrate on working for a living and having a decent life, and forget about minding other people's business, of course it's possible.

The sectarian attitudes of Northerners are always baffling to anyone outside their little land. To me, they seem very like what's described in the article quoted below - and very symptomatic of an impoverished place where people are fighting desperately for limited resources.

If everyone got their noses to the grindstone and started to work, all this would dissolve.

http://tinyurl.com/4quz7w

Gang behaviour 'a coping mechanism'

Press Assoc.

Territorial behaviour could be a "coping mechanism" for young people living in poverty, a study has suggested.

Researchers from the University of Glasgow examined the problem in six parts of Britain and found a strong link between the behaviour and disadvantaged areas.

They found that becoming involved in gang or territorial behaviour could provide young people with leisure, excitement and support outside of their home.

In some areas it was a "leisure activity", especially in Glasgow and Sunderland where gang fighting was more ritualised.

The other areas examined in the study were Bradford, Bristol, Tower Hamlets, London and Peterborough.

Researchers described territorial behaviour as being something in which people identify strongly with their home area, and attempt to control it and defend it against outsiders.

Keith Kintrea, lead researcher, said: "We discovered territorial behaviour among young people in a wide range of disadvantaged areas in cities across England and Scotland.

"Young people often had positive motivations for becoming involved, such as developing their identity and friendships.

"But strong territorial identities frequently led to violent conflict with territorial groups from other areas."

The research was published by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation as experts on gang culture in the US visit Scotland to advise on how mentoring schemes can help reduce youth crime.

dante18 · 15-10-2008 11:16AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

you tried that in 1922 and look how quick the country went down the pan then

No, we didn't try that in 1922. If you can provide any evidence to suggest that we did, I'd be interested in seeing it.

thehighground · 15-10-2008 11:23AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

you tried that in 1922 and look how quick the country went down the pan then

Indeed, NI used to be a very prosperous place back then, with its shipyards and heavy industry. Down south we were poverty stricken.

Whatever our present economic ills, we're very lucky that 70% of our workforce are not public sector employees.

luckat · 15-10-2008 11:26AM

By the way, I certainly don't want to live in a country where 'we kick out' any sector of the community.

Fratton Fred · 15-10-2008 11:26AM

dante18 wrote: »

No, we didn't try that in 1922. If you can provide any evidence to suggest that we did, I'd be interested in seeing it.

thehighground wrote: »

Indeed, NI used to be a very prosperous place back then, with its shipyards and heavy industry. Down south we were poverty stricken.

Whatever our present economic ills, we're very lucky that 70% of our workforce are not public sector employees.

wow, who stole your sense of humour. I took Kev_ps3's post as tongue in cheek, was it not?

thehighground · 15-10-2008 11:30AM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

wow, who stole your sense of humour. I took Kev_ps3's post as tongue in cheek, was it not?

Coming from you Fred, no, it wasn't humous as you do seem to come out with some very misinformed comments.

getz · 15-10-2008 11:35AM

:cool:lucat it sounds as if its the same in dublin

McArmalite · 15-10-2008 05:52PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

you miss my point. How can this be British and a sign of their "Britishness" when this sort of things happens nowhere else in Britain (with the exception of parts of West Scotland).

If this was created by the British, why was it not created elsewhere in Britain? why stop in NI? Who cares if they burn GAA shirts, maybe the GAA should have let them join in the first place. Who cares if they burn the tri colour, they don't want it as their national flag, they recognise the Union flag, which is theirs. Who cares if they sing GSTQ, its their national anthem.

" How can this be British and a sign of their "Britishness" Well they affairm that marching on the ' twalfth ', walking along " the queens highway " and wearing bowler hats and carrying umbrellas, on the maybe the hottest day of the year is asserting their ' bratishness'. Explain to them not me that thier ' traditions ' and ' culture ' aren't british ??

http://www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/ and http://www.ulsterscotsagency.com/

" Who cares if they burn GAA shirts, ...... Who cares if they burn the tri colour, " Obviously the people of Ireland care. Do us all a favour Fred and trying doing it on O'Connell St sometime

" maybe the GAA should have let them join in the first place. " I'm not aware of any rule in the GAA stating unionists couldn't join, but since you seem to know of it could you therefore provide it ?

And as for burning nationalist emblems etc, the unionists were doing it long before the GAA was ever founded, including the homes and livelihoods of nationalists.

Fratton Fred · 15-10-2008 05:57PM

thehighground wrote: »

Coming from you Fred, no, it wasn't humous as you do seem to come out with some very misinformed comments.

or maybe you are being a touch too sensitive

thehighground · 15-10-2008 11:06PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

or maybe you are being a touch too sensitive

Don't confuse 'sensitivity' and having your facts right.

djpbarry · 16-10-2008 09:36AM

McArmalite wrote: »

Obviously the people of Ireland care.

Not all of us do. Any burning of Irish paraphernalia is quite clearly intended to rile people; seems to work. The burning of a piece of cloth ain't going to bother me too much.

McArmalite wrote: »

I'm not aware of any rule in the GAA stating unionists couldn't join...

The GAA has always been strongly associated with nationalism. Rule 15 requires that the tricolour is flown and Amhrán na bhFiann is played at all matches, even outside the Republic of Ireland. The preamble to the GAA's official guide states that the "basic aim" of the GAA is "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

Rule 17b limits membership to those who:

"who subscribe to and undertake to further the aims and objects of the Gaelic Athletic Association, as stated in the Official Guide."

Not a whole lot of room for unionism in all that.

McArmalite · 16-10-2008 09:45AM

djpbarry wrote: »

Not all of us do. Any burning of Irish paraphernalia is quite clearly intended to rile people; seems to work. The burning of a piece of cloth ain't going to bother me too much.
The GAA has always been strongly associated with nationalism. Rule 15 requires that the tricolour is flown and Amhrán na bhFiann is played at all matches, even outside the Republic of Ireland. The preamble to the GAA's official guide states that the "basic aim" of the GAA is "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

Rule 17b limits membership to those who:

"who subscribe to and undertake to further the aims and objects of the Gaelic Athletic Association, as stated in the Official Guide."

Not a whole lot of room for unionism in all that.

Yes the GAA is about "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.".

Are you implying they should create " room for unionism" by having the fellas in bowler hats and umbrellas march around a GAA pitch before a game behind a ' kick the pope' band ??

Fratton Fred · 16-10-2008 09:49AM

McArmalite wrote: »

Yes the GAA is about "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes.". Are you equating the above quote from the GAA as the same as the Orange Order's ban on Catholics ??

yet more "Whataboutery".

I'm not the biggest fan of the GAA, but I certainly wouldn't compare them to the Orange order.

madden1 · 16-10-2008 10:16AM

[

quote=djpbarry;57594599]Not all of us do. Any burning of Irish paraphernalia is quite clearly intended to rile people; seems to work. The burning of a piece of cloth ain't going to bother me too much.
The GAA has always been strongly associated with nationalism. Rule 15 requires that the tricolour is flown and Amhrán na bhFiann is played at all matches, even outside the Republic of Ireland. The preamble to the GAA's official guide states that the "basic aim" of the GAA is "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

Rule 17b limits membership to those who:

"who subscribe to and undertake to further the aims and objects of the Gaelic Athletic Association, as stated in the Official Guide."

Not a whole lot of room for unionism in all that

djpbarry
I may be wrong on this , but on your past post I wouldn't think you are a member of the GAA , yet you seem to know all th rules any chance you would list the rules needed to be abided by to become a member of the Orange Order,
so we can read about real bigots.

JWAD · 16-10-2008 10:40AM

djpbarry wrote: »

The GAA has always been strongly associated with nationalism. Rule 15 requires that the tricolour is flown and Amhrán na bhFiann is played at all matches, even outside the Republic of Ireland. The preamble to the GAA's official guide states that the "basic aim" of the GAA is "the strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland through the preservation and promotion of Gaelic Games and pastimes."

When are they going to actually respect this at Croke Park? Player behaviour during anthems at All-Ireland play-offs this year has gotten worse and worse each year.

djpbarry · 16-10-2008 03:35PM

McArmalite wrote: »

Are you implying they should create " room for unionism" by having the fellas in bowler hats and umbrellas march around a GAA pitch before a game behind a ' kick the pope' band ??

Yeah, that's exactly what I am implying :rolleyes:.

You seem to have a great deal of difficulty in separating unionism from the orange order; they are not one and the same.

madden1 wrote: »

djpbarry
I may be wrong on this , but on your past post I wouldn't think you are a member of the GAA , yet you seem to know all th rules any chance you would list the rules needed to be abided by to become a member of the Orange Order,
so we can read about real bigots.

Your point?

McArmalite stated that he/she was not aware of any rule forbidding unionists from joining the GAA. I merely pointed out that it is (apparently) a requirement that GAA members be of a nationalist disposition. That is all there is to it.

luckyfrank · 16-10-2008 08:02PM

Djpbarry your the most unpatriotic person ive ever come across. I can understand some people who dont really give a toss if they arent learned in the subject but you seem to know your stuff and yet you blatentley disregard everything that is irish.

You say that you dont give a ****e about irish unity and that it would cost you to much........

Ireland can do without people like you your a disgrace to your forefathers

Its because of people like Padraig pease, joseph plunkett and james connelly you have any freedoms at all. Your a spoilt brat you dont know how easy you have it because people before us died for our freedoms

dlofnep · 16-10-2008 08:13PM

djpbarry wrote: »

McArmalite stated that he/she was not aware of any rule forbidding unionists from joining the GAA. I merely pointed out that it is (apparently) a requirement that GAA members be of a nationalist disposition. That is all there is to it.

I know many players of hurling who are not nationalists. It is an Irish sport, and therefore will be embroidered in Irish culture. Makes perfect sense to me that they would play the Irish national Anthem and fly the Irish flag. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever. It doesn't stop unionists from joining - It just requires that they accept the bells and whistles that go along with the GAA atmosphere. Get real sir.

djpbarry · 16-10-2008 08:26PM

dlofnep wrote: »

I know many players of hurling who are not nationalists. It is an Irish sport, and therefore will be embroidered in Irish culture. Makes perfect sense to me that they would play the Irish national Anthem and fly the Irish flag. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever. It doesn't stop unionists from joining - It just requires that they accept the bells and whistles that go along with the GAA atmosphere. Get real sir.

"The strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland" is a little more than just "bells and whistles"; it's pretty much anathema to unionism.

I wonder how popular soccer would be in this country if it was obligatory for "God Save the Queen" to be played prior to every game.

IRLConor · 16-10-2008 08:40PM

luckyfrank wrote: »

Djpbarry your the most unpatriotic person ive ever come across.

Please explain in logical, unemotional language why patriotism is a virtue.

I can understand a certain amount of pride in our culture, but I'd cheerfully trade it for all the people killed in the name of it. And whatever about culture, lines on the map deserve no praise.

Nationalism (in the general sense, not the Irish connotation) is nonsense and a lot of people have been killed by its proponents.

nesf · 16-10-2008 08:46PM

luckyfrank wrote: »

Your a spoilt brat you dont know how easy you have it because people before us died for our freedoms

Right, attack the post not the poster. Getting personal on here will get you banned. This does include you accusing others of not being patriots because they don't subscribe to your view of patriotism or nationalist viewpoint or whatever.

TOMASJ · 16-10-2008 09:09PM

djpbarry wrote: »

"The strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland" is a little more than just "bells and whistles"; it's pretty much anathema to unionism.

I wonder how popular soccer would be in this country if it was obligatory for "God Save the Queen" to be played prior to every game

Think you will find worse songs than God save the queen, are sung at soccer games in this country every weekend.

(We are the billy boys) a song about cutting the throats of Catholics the anthem of some Irish League Soccer fans.

Been to a lot of GAA matches never ever heard an equivalent

Acacia · 16-10-2008 09:53PM

djpbarry wrote: »

"The strengthening of the National Identity in a 32 County Ireland" is a little more than just "bells and whistles"; it's pretty much anathema to unionism.

I wonder how popular soccer would be in this country if it was obligatory for "God Save the Queen" to be played prior to every game.

The context of the set-up of the GAA was very much in response to the eroding of a national Irish identity. This was linked to the struggle for Irish independence.I don't think it would be acceptable to discourage someone from joining because they aren't in support of a 32-county Ireland (for whatever reason) any more, though. In the context of the struggle for Home Rule/Independence though, it was more than likely that if you wanted to preserve Irish traditions, you would also be in favor of strengthening our ''national identity in a 32 county Ireland".

But why shouldn't we sing our national anthem before we play our national games? RE 'God Save the Queen' , why should we sing a foreign anthem every time we play a foreign sport? Should we have to sing the American national anthem if we were to play American football or baseball?

As you said, they seem to burn the GAA shirts to get a rise out of people, not because they were 'left out'.

I don't think people should take nationalism to an extreme ( I mean nationalism for whatever country you're from, not Irish nationalism). But there's no crime in being proud of your traditions and cultures and wanting to preserve them.

luckyfrank · 16-10-2008 10:08PM

Nesf this is an adult topic in an adult forum i mean
if you cant get angry from time to time and type what you feel whats the point......... all you end up with is wall o' text, no personality and boring as hell

luckyfrank · 16-10-2008 10:14PM

IRLConor wrote: »

Please explain in logical, unemotional language why patriotism is a virtue.

I can understand a certain amount of pride in our culture, but I'd cheerfully trade it for all the people killed in the name of it. And whatever about culture, lines on the map deserve no praise.

Nationalism (in the general sense, not the Irish connotation) is nonsense and a lot of people have been killed by its proponents.

Why does everything have to be logical ?? Am i a vulcan

Tell me whats logical about love ?

You dont always have to understand everything to understand its meaning
I love my country and i would love it to be united peacefully there doesnt have to be a logical reason for it

Is a peaceful 32 united ireland possible

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