Deputies Deasy and Mitchell's comments in the media

dresden8 · 11-11-2008 10:12AM #1

Fine Gael are at it again.

Question about trial by jury in connection with the latest murder in Limerick.

First comment by Olivia Mitchell directly connects licensed handgun holders with drug dealers and hit-men in Limerick.

I really, really want an alternative to FF but when FG start coming out with this sort of cr@p what really is left?

They had a chance to go for Garda underfunding, whole urban areas being written off to the scumbags etc. etc. etc., but who do they go for? Us.

FG never saw an open goal that they didn't miss.

At this stage the only people I can vote for are the shinners and the crazy religious people, and I hate them.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1110/qanda_av.html?2447309,null,230

Very start of program.

Jonty · 11-11-2008 10:46AM

I'm just sick after listening to it.

Sparks · 11-11-2008 12:38PM

The irony of it all is that it was Fine Gael that the NARGC were working with on a proposed Firearms Bill before the last General Election.

But FG regard Deasy as a loose cannon anyway, and as for Mitchell, well, just think back to what happened to the range in Ticknock. Complaints come in from people who were illegally trespassing on Coillte land, and Mitchell backed those complaints until the range was shut down.

José Alaninho · 11-11-2008 12:57PM

Gun-control? Fine Gael going back to their blueshirt roots? Sieg Heil and all that... In fairness though, if there's one thing I'm sick of it's all those damn criminals getting licensed handguns for nefarious uses. You'd think they'd just smuggle them in or something and save our gardai all the time and effort...:rolleyes:

Sparks · 11-11-2008 04:21PM

Sent to all the nationals and a fair few of the local papers this morning:

Dear Editor,
In recent weeks, Deputies Deasy and Mitchell and others have engaged in scaremongering on a widespread scale in the media (including this newspaper), saying that there has been a massive rise in the licencing of pistols, and attempting to link this alleged rise to the recent rise in levels of gun crime. As a licenced firearms owner, I wish to offer the following counterpoints:

(*) The number of pistols licenced in Ireland per capita has fallen by 20% since 1971.

(*) Since 1971, our firearms laws have been tightened three times, making ours the most restrictive laws in the EU.

(*) Every single licenced firearm in Ireland is licenced to someone who was personally approved as safe to own and use that firearm by a Garda Superintendent.

(*) Garda Superintendents have exceptionally wide-ranging powers when it comes to granting or refusing licences. They can - and do - require gun safes, home inspections, house alarms, access to medical records, proficiency courses and membership of authorised firearms ranges.

(*) Firearms ranges are also inspected and authorised by the Gardai, to exceptionally high construction and safety standards. Many firearms ranges have spent tens of thousands of euros to come up to the Gardai requirements over the past two years.

(*) While there is a distinct difference in how many pistol licences are granted by different Garda Districts, this is caused by the requirement to be a member of an approved range - more licences are granted in areas closer to approved ranges.

(*) In 2007 the Gardai, the Department of Justice, the Irish Sports Council, the governing bodies of target shooting sports, firearms dealers and other stakeholders, all came together to found the Firearms Consultation Panel under the aegis of the Minister for Justice. This groundbreaking body allows all parties to find safe, efficient, well-informed solutions to the concerns of those who use firearms and those who draft and those who enforce firearms law.

In short, the concerns that Deputies Deasy and Mitchell and others have attempted to raise are not based on facts or statistics or current procedures, and serve no useful function other than to scaremonger in the lead-up to the local elections. This is a shameful act on their part.

Yours in Sport,

fish slapped · 11-11-2008 07:01PM

AAAARGH!!:mad:

meathstevie · 11-11-2008 09:35PM

Folks, I won't even try formulating a reply to this "lady's" waffle.

One little thing though, if she wanted to do something about drug related crime she'd be better of digging into the showjumping circuit where there have been to the best of my knowledge a few scandals related to the illegal use of drugs. At the end of the day the best place to start sweeping is in front of your own door.

fathersymes · 11-11-2008 10:05PM

Olivia Mitchel (Olivia.Mitchell@finegael.ie) needs to be brought to account as to why she evaded the question asked and virtually accused licensed firearms holders to be a threat to public safety.

Relating the murder in Limerick to legally licensed firearms is reprehensible.

I shall be sending her a personal email asking for an explanation to her insinuations.

These ignorant, uneducated and uninformed elected representatives are simply using guns as a scape goat for their inability to administer effectively.

BTW, there must be some shooting people in the ranks of all parties?

meathstevie · 11-11-2008 10:49PM

Imagine the following scene :

Fine Gael canvasser knocking on the door : "We're looking for your vote...blah blah blah"

You : "I don't think so pal, not in a week of sundays"

Canvasser : "Why, if I may ask ?"

You : "Olivia Mitchell puts me on a par with Limerick gangsters and actively campaigns against my sport. That's why."

Canvasser : "Oh"

You : "Oh indeed, go away now and don't bother coming back until your spokespeople can see the difference between me and gangsters."

Multiply the scenario by thousands of licenced firearm owners and Fine Gael has given itself a major kick up the goolies.

In hotly contested elections, what the next ones no doubt are going to be, every vote counts. For people for whom a Garda Superintendent has signed of as deemed safe to own firearms being lumped in with the worst drugged up psychopatic scumbags is offensive and nobody should accept being offended by unknowledgeable stuck up numbskulls who's biggest political achievement is playing the scaremongering card.

Sparks · 11-11-2008 10:55PM

Pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard if you prefer email) and start writing to the national papers and your local papers and the local papers for Deasy and Mitchell.

Hell, if ICABS are allowed complain, so are we...

dbar · 11-11-2008 11:11PM

Email sent to said person!

Our man in Havana · 12-11-2008 12:58AM

And where has Charles Flanagan been during all this. He seems to be very quiet.

G17 · 12-11-2008 01:01AM

I'll come out of posting retirement for this one.

Well done to those who have sent an email to a politician or newspaper or are planning to do so in the immediate future.

For f*cks sake do something if you care about your sport. Email your local FG person and ask them to stop this lunacy. We (legal firearms certificate holders) are being classed as the lowest of those low lifes who have no regard for life and law. TWO FG members within a week calling you and me criminals in effect?

Are you just going to give up your sport because of some lazy politicians? "An explosion of gun ownership, gun culture, worrying trend".....all this nonsense!? I don't mind ignorance but I'm really pissed at the insults, how dare they lump me my friends and members of my family in with the murdering gangsters in Limerick or the feuding drug lords in Dublin who take lives on a whim. I shoot pieces of paper.

If we don't let these people know what the facts are they sure won't bother to fish them out. They're using this 'hot topic' to get at the sitting government, I've no problem with opposition but they're doing it at my direct expense and they're doing it with lazy lies.

Email, if you're reading this you have access to a computer, email now, tell them about your sport, tell them you're annoyed at being classed as criminals. Tell them about the FCP so at least they might move on to the next fashionable topic and leave us the f*ck alone to enjoy our sport.

I've emailed FG twice this week to ask what the hell is going on, please do the same. Don't sit on your holes.
Have you got no pride or fight in you?!

If you're not bothered will you just sell your firearms back to a dealer because you're making the numbers look bad for those who give a sh1t about their sport.

Did I mention, I'm angry? :mad:

Our man in Havana · 12-11-2008 01:06AM

Just emailed Charles Flanagan. The reply should be interesting.

rrpc · 12-11-2008 01:33AM

The NTSA's response is here. It's a bit long hence it's not posted here.

If the link is too slow or doesn't open, you can go to www.targetshootingireland.org and look at the list of documents on the right hand side of the page for "Fine Gael Letter".

Here's a short excerpt:

Having made such public statements on the matter in such a strident fashion, the Fine Gael party is now in the process of painting itself into a corner in relation to crime where the Minister will feel justified in making further prohibitions on firearms licensing without fear of contradiction and may indeed point to such a prohibition as ‘answering opposition demands’ to be tougher on armed crime. In the meantime, a body of sportspeople (both men and women) are being branded as criminals on a daily basis because the equipment they use in their chosen sport is thought by the uninformed to be also used by criminals.

To say that these attacks are sickening is a gross understatement. It is hard to think of a suitable analogy because to equate sport with crime is a leap of imagination only the most perverse could make. It is probably easier to think of the various weapons that have been used in attacks on the person in this country over the last few years and consider the possibility of banning or restricting their use.

These would be variously: Motor vehicles, feet and hands, slash hooks, kitchen knives, hammers, screwdrivers, bottles and drinking glasses. All of these items have been used and their numbers far exceed the numbers of licensed firearms in circulation, are far more easily obtainable and some can cause much more devastating injuries than firearms can.

bunny shooter · 12-11-2008 01:45AM

Nice piece of writing there ! will be forwarding link to my local FG deputy.

rrpc · 12-11-2008 01:49AM

bunny shooter wrote: »

Nice piece of writing there ! will be forwarding link to my local FG deputy.

Thanks Bunny. Forward the whole damn thing. It's available to download for just that purpose.

They'd never click the link.

bunny shooter · 12-11-2008 02:04AM

rrpc wrote: »

Thanks Bunny. Forward the whole damn thing. It's available to download for just that purpose.

They'd never click the link.

Ya I downloaded and attached it to e-mail. Just sent it now. See what he comes back to me with.

Come on lads everyone needs to do this !

les45 · 12-11-2008 10:38AM

The IPSA wrote to Deputy Deasy and Deputy Kenny to express our total dsigust at the blunderbuss attempt by their party to associate licensed firearms holders with drug dealers and gansters . As yet we have received no reply from either party .

Red Renard · 12-11-2008 12:30PM

John Bowman (putting question from audience member Bill Donald to Olivia Mitchell of Fine Gael)
“After the latest murder of Shane Geoghegan in Limerick, [should we consider trial without jury”
Olivia Mitchell: “Well, em, just thinking about that today and the horror of the whole thing, there was one statistic that I heard just recently, that really shocked me and that was the escalation in the amount of guns in society, licensed handguns held in Ireland. Four years ago it was 300, today it is1700. And I think when you’ve got the proliferation of guns like that you’ll inevitably have things happening you know; people being killed and people being killed by accident, I think that’s inevitable, so that’s something that has to be done.”

"and the horror of the whole thing, there was one statistic that I heard just recently, that really shocked me" *********

This is where I think the usually very aware chairman should have spotted the opportunistic link been made for political reasons by the TD. This was a deliberate linkage that confused the serious nature of the question. The public viewing of Q&A can fairly be expected to believe that licensed legally held pistols have been used in crime or soon will be. "You'll inevitably have things happening you know"

Have sent the usual e-mails of complaint
no replys as ever. It looks more than ever that this is a pr war to be won by the sporting bodies on the fcp making certain that TDs are in possession of the full facts before they go off on one again.

dresden8 · 12-11-2008 02:11PM

I can't believe FG are seriously making me consider voting FF. It's freaking unbelievable

G17 · 12-11-2008 02:20PM

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/over-100-handgun-licences-issued-in-wexford-district-1535782.html

Our man in Havana · 12-11-2008 02:28PM

G17 wrote: »

http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/over-100-handgun-licences-issued-in-wexford-district-1535782.html

Reading that is making my blood boil. :mad:

Sparks · 12-11-2008 02:38PM

Well, it wasn't the most horrible article - the Garda seemed straightforward enough about it, licenced handguns and no crime here, it's just target shooters getting another kind of firearm for their sport.
The slant the paper was trying to put on it wasn't fair, but I don't think it worked too well.

dresden8 · 12-11-2008 02:48PM

Bravo to the Gardai on that one I'd say.

G17 · 12-11-2008 03:08PM

Sparks wrote: »

the Garda seemed straightforward enough about it, licenced handguns and no crime here, it's just target shooters getting another kind of firearm for their sport.

We are blessed with many fair, pragmatic and well informed police officers in the area and they are a credit to the force. They often take a genuine interest in your application and are not just number crunching. They ask relevant questions and give useful advice. They often don't tell you what you want to hear though but it's invariably reasonable, on reflection!

fish slapped · 12-11-2008 05:25PM

Had to send an email:

Dear Ms Mitcheal,
I am a thirty something year old with 3 children, a wonderful wife, mortgage, and and car loan. I coach underage rugby and Gaelic football, I do volunteer work locally and I am also a licenced firearm holder. I was deeply hurt and insulted by your remarks on questions and answers where you told the Irish public that I was the equivalent of a drug dealing, murderous criminal simply because I enjoy the sport of target shooting. To say I am utterly disgusted that you could make this comparison and link these lowlifes to the law abiding citizens that give so much back to their local community, would be an understatement. As a licenced firearms holder I wish to inform you of the following points:

(*) The number of pistols licenced in Ireland per capita has fallen by 20% since 1971.

(*) Since 1971, our firearms laws have been tightened three times, making ours the most restrictive laws in the EU.

(*) Every single licenced firearm in Ireland is licenced to someone who was personally approved as safe to own and use that firearm by a Garda Superintendent.

(*) Garda Superintendents have exceptionally wide-ranging powers when it comes to granting or refusing licences. They can - and do - require gun safes, home inspections, house alarms, access to medical records, proficiency courses and membership of authorised firearms ranges.

(*) Firearms ranges are also inspected and authorised by the Gardai, to exceptionally high construction and safety standards. Many firearms ranges have spent tens of thousands of euros to come up to the Gardai requirements over the past two years.

(*) While there is a distinct difference in how many pistol licences are granted by different Garda Districts, this is caused by the requirement to be a member of an approved range - more licences are granted in areas closer to approved ranges.

(*) In 2007 the Gardai, the Department of Justice, the Irish Sports Council, the governing bodies of target shooting sports, firearms dealers and other stakeholders, all came together to found the Firearms Consultation Panel under the aegis of the Minister for Justice. This groundbreaking body allows all parties to find safe, efficient, well-informed solutions to the concerns of those who use firearms and those who draft and those who enforce firearms law.

From and good citizen of this republic,

tiny-nioclas · 12-11-2008 05:37PM

I would personally never vote for the blueshirts anyway but ive a letter drafted and sent into the local paper about the deasy nonsence, they covered a bit about what he said,all very sensationalist, its time to nip this in the bud before the public are made think that theres criminals,hitmen and drug dealers out shooting rabbits and foxes :mad:

fish slapped · 12-11-2008 05:41PM

Thanks Sparks !

Sika_Stalker · 12-11-2008 06:39PM

just watched tv3 news and on it was a piece about guns in limerick
well by god they were trying hard to try and make it out that it was stolen guns that were being used. but they interviewed one of the locals and he said they were coming from spain brand spanking new
how much you can believe is up to you?????

bunny shooter · 12-11-2008 08:18PM

Media and politicans seem hell bent on demonising legitimate shooters :mad:

Take our firearms and leave the criminals alone, typical.

The Gardai know who these criminals are search them, their vehicles and their houses and everyone associated and their vehicles and their houses. The Gardai would get a nice haul I reckon.

No, easier to go after the law abiding. Mandatory sentences and harsher penalties for possession of illegal firearms hasn't persuaded criminals not to use/have illegal firearms. New solution is Willie O' Dea talking to them and getting then to have cease-fires.

We need a government with a pair. Fine Gael done it during the Civil War maybe it's time someone of the calibre of Richard Mulcahy was put in to to the job again.

I'll vote for any party who hounds the criminals, lock 'em up without trial. Or with a trial using Garda intelligence. Tough measures against the quilty are needed not against the innocent !

Tonight I'm gonna e-mail every TD in Leinster house, I have the time and I'm pissed off enough now ! And to those who are sitting back saying sure I don't have a pistol, I'm ok, I am telling you now if they 'ban' pistols what you have will be next in line. So get e-mailing or it WILL be too late.

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Deputies Deasy and Mitchell's comments in the media

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