Tried coppers with Dublin Bus' exact fare policy?

stabu · 30-01-2009 12:56AM #1

Due to a gammy knee, I've had to abandon the bike and start using the bus.

I'm still having trouble with the exact fare policy, and am starting to collect quite a few refund tickets, which I probably won't cash in.

So to get rid of the bother this is causing me, I thought about unloading all my 1 cent copper coins into those them metal containers you put your money in.

Of course, it will be almost impossible to count them .. especially if I go for 180 copper 1 cent pieces. That would be too much, But I was thinking of slowly trying with say 30 cent peices one day and then to start increasing the load.

Has anybody ever tried this? There is absolutely nothing on their web saying that you can't. If their counting machines cannot take 1 cent or 2 cent, then, they should say so.

Perhaps I shoudl email them first and ask them. But anyhow, just thought I'd post and ask: hasf anybody ever tried this?

thenightrider · 30-01-2009 01:01AM

Its legel tender but when paying for an item or servise the provider can refuse to take your coins onse it is over 50 coin's

Del2005 · 30-01-2009 01:03AM

The law states that you only have to accept 50 coins of 1 euro for a transaction. So the driver could tell you to get off the bus if you try and pay with 180 coins. Why don't you just buy a 5 day ticket or a travel 90 ticket. It's cheaper the paying cash also.

congo_90 · 30-01-2009 01:04AM

thenightrider wrote: »

Its legel tender but when paying for an item or servise the provider can refuse to take your coins onse it is over 50 coin's

Sure bout this?

Chinafoot · 30-01-2009 01:04AM

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0038/sec0010.html#zza38y1998s10

50 coins is your max legally. Bus Eireann driver told me once they won't take more than 10, Dublin Bus might be the same.

GBX · 30-01-2009 01:04AM

How can they refuse if its legal tender?

Seifer · 30-01-2009 01:05AM

Yes, the machines take them.
It's the only way I've found of getting rid of big piles of coppers. You usually get a funny look from the driver but as long as you pay the correct fare there's nothing they can say.

thenightrider · 30-01-2009 01:06AM

congo_90 wrote: »

Sure bout this?

Yep im sure some one just posted a link

Run_to_da_hills · 30-01-2009 01:12AM

If everyone started fumbling with small change on the bus with the driver expecting him to count it, the bus would be delayed and people would then complain, give them a break. :rolleyes:

John R · 30-01-2009 01:16AM

There are no counting machines on the buses, it is just a metal box with a perspex window for the driver to visually inspect the fare before issuing the ticket.

Do everyone who uses the bus service a favour and dispose of your mounds of copper elsewhere. There are already far too many things slowing the bus service down without another individual taking out their individuality on what is supposed to be a mass transit system.

Do yourself a favour and buy pre-paid tickets, you will probably save money in the long run and not have any change tickets to raise your ire.

Tesco and possibly other supermarkets have counting machines that will take your copper and give you a receipt for the full amount that you can use for your shopping.

John R · 30-01-2009 01:19AM

GBX wrote: »

How can they refuse if its legal tender?

Because there is no RIGHT to any product or service just because you have an amount of currency in your hand.

Legal tender HAS to be accepted as payment for a DEBT only.

corktina · 30-01-2009 01:27AM

stick all that change in a charity box somewhere.....better than delaying a busful of passengers if the machine gets jammed or something

leeroybrown · 30-01-2009 01:31AM

When I get buses I normally count the fare up before I get to the driver and throw a small number of coppers in with larger change. It doesn't take too long to get rid of them if you're using five of so coppers a bus trip.

Collect up your bus refund tickets. You'll be near the office at some stage or if you're not too bothered there are (or at least used to be) some charities that would accept them and refund them in bulk from time to time.

ArseBurger · 30-01-2009 01:35AM

GBX wrote: »

How can they refuse if its legal tender?

What do you think legal tender means? And entitles you to?

Also, consider the four way transaction for a sale of goods or services.

Steviemak · 30-01-2009 01:52AM

I always try and get rid of my small change on the bus. It never holds any body up as i give exact change. its people that pay over the odds that cause delays as the driver usually has to be told to give the change.

I would get rid of your coppers over a few journeys.

poisonated · 30-01-2009 02:01AM

Ha! I remember when I was younger,I was a bit of a chancer and I would get about 60 cent in copper coins and the driver would never know:P

I am older now and I know that it is morally wrong to take advantage of Dublin bus like this.*

*Stop myself getting abuse hopefuly:D

bk · 30-01-2009 02:10AM

leeroybrown wrote: »

Collect up your bus refund tickets. You'll be near the office at some stage or if you're not too bothered there are (or at least used to be) some charities that would accept them and refund them in bulk from time to time.

Dublin bus gives all unclaimed refund money to charity if it isn't collected.

AlekSmart · 30-01-2009 02:37AM

Stabu,Your not of Roma extraction are you ?

The coin intensive method you describe is the preferred one of the many people of the Roma tradition that I`ve come across.

Never seen it cause any problems as long as the number of coins bears some fleeting resemblance to the actual fare.

But as John D sez.....give everybody else a break....If you want to express individuality then get a Taxi...I`m sure no Taxi driver will refuse those coins in these straightened times.

It`s also worth noting that there is NO legal right to Change in any transaction.
The provision of change is a concession on the part of the vendor/provider.

As for DB "Giving" all unclaimed change to charity,it`s true after a fashion as the company uses it to fund it`s community support initiative which does eventually see the funding distributed to deserving local causes...NOT necessarily all registered charities though.

Davidth88 · 30-01-2009 09:22AM

Wasn't there a problem with DB giving the money to Charity because they never actually put an expiration date on the change tkt ?

I always thought it was a pretty wierd system not giving change but giving a tkt that could only be cashed in one place . After all we don't all go into town that often .

We used to have a jar at work that we all put the tkts in and then sent them of to a charity , but that disappeared abotu 4 yrs ago.

When/if CIE get their act together and we get an ' Oyster ' type system here then perhaps this will disappear.

To the OP , do what I do , use the self service checkouts in Tesco and empy your change into them , do not use the machines that give you a receipt as one poster suggests because I think they take 10% ' commision ' .

Del2005 · 30-01-2009 09:25AM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Stabu,Your not of Roma extraction are you ?

The coin intensive method you describe is the preferred one of the many people of the Roma tradition that I`ve come across.

Never seen it cause any problems as long as the number of coins bears some fleeting resemblance to the actual fare.

I got caught out with this the 1st time I got the bus from my new place. Didn't know the fare so had ~€2.50 in change, no coppers. Asked the driver the fare and started putting the money in but lost count. Told him and he said it's near enough. I know now I could have just worked backward with how much change I had left but never thought of that till later. Now just use the pre paid tickets to save money.

But as John D sez.....give everybody else a break....If you want to express individuality then get a Taxi...I`m sure no Taxi driver will refuse those coins in these straightened times.

Seeing as you've already got a debt with the taxi driver they have less option of refusing, but you've no debt with the bus driver so they can say no.

It`s also worth noting that there is NO legal right to Change in any transaction.
The provision of change is a concession on the part of the vendor/provider.

As for DB "Giving" all unclaimed change to charity,it`s true after a fashion as the company uses it to fund it`s community support initiative which does eventually see the funding distributed to deserving local causes...NOT necessarily all registered charities though.

DB should stop giving the change reciepts. It says exact fare only, but people know they'll get their money back if they give too much. If they had no chance of getting their money back I think a lot more people would stop over paying and have the correct amount. Next we'll have to get them to have their money ready when the bus stops, but I can see hell freezing over first:D Or could we make the fare increase the longer you're standing in front of the driver:D

L1011 · 30-01-2009 09:57AM

Davidth88 wrote: »

Wasn't there a problem with DB giving the money to Charity because they never actually put an expiration date on the change tkt ?

DB get around this by honouring the tiny amount of ancient tickets that come back in themselves rather than from the unclaimed fund - the money they give away is the money from 7 years ago each year IIRC. I expect the interest on that cash collected during that time period covers the very small amount of tickets reclaimed after 7+ years!

dermo88 · 30-01-2009 10:17AM

Just wait till I get back from Thailand with a load of 10 Baht coins, I'll put that decrepit semi state out of business.

Carawaystick · 30-01-2009 10:26AM

Del2005 wrote: »

DB should stop giving the change reciepts. It says exact fare only, but people know they'll get their money back if they give too much. If they had no chance of getting their money back I think a lot more people would stop over paying and have the correct amount.

Maybe if Dublin bus stated the correct fare at their bus stops or even online for all their routes, exact fare might be feasible. for outer suburban routes you are supposed to ring (01) 8734222 to find out. Now, if there is a list of fares in front of the person who answers, how hard would it be to publish it online? Especially in light of the fact that Dublin bus are cutting back on drivers and bus services, surely it would be better to make a redundant position redundant rather than drivers.

Even in the city, last time I was there, most stops didn't state the fares.

Alun · 30-01-2009 10:32AM

Regardless of all this ... OP, just do yourself (and all the other people queueing up behind you!) a favour and buy pre-paid tickets, either the Travel 90 or Rambler.

Cookie_Monster · 30-01-2009 10:57AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If everyone started fumbling with small change on the bus with the driver expecting him to count it, the bus would be delayed and people would then complain, give them a break. :rolleyes:

Should do it before you get on really...

John R wrote: »

Tesco and possibly other supermarkets have counting machines that will take your copper and give you a receipt for the full amount that you can use for your shopping.

They charge quite a premium though, up to 7 or 8 %

leeroybrown wrote: »

When I get buses I normally count the fare up before I get to the driver and throw a small number of coppers in with larger change. It doesn't take too long to get rid of them if you're using five of so coppers a bus trip.

+1 if everyone did this instead of waiting to get on to even open up their purse (yes, it's usually women) buses would be quicker

bk · 30-01-2009 11:15AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

+1 if everyone did this instead of waiting to get on to even open up their purse (yes, it's usually women) buses would be quicker

This is why DB needs to follow London Buses lead. Only one fare, no matter how far you are travelling. Something like €5 if your paying by cash, €1.50 if you pay via smart card.

I read recently that less then 2% of people pay by cash on London bus now and thus dwell times are vastly improved.

Alun · 30-01-2009 11:23AM

bk wrote: »

This is why DB needs to follow London Buses lead. Only one fare, no matter how far you are travelling. Something like €5 if your paying by cash, €1.50 if you pay via smart card.

I read recently that less then 2% of people pay by cash on London bus now and thus dwell times are vastly improved.

They could start by actively promoting and advertising their pre-paid tickets on the buses and stops, possibly one of the best kept secrets on DB.

meanmachine3 · 30-01-2009 11:45AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If everyone started fumbling with small change on the bus with the driver expecting him to count it, the bus would be delayed and people would then complain, give them a break. :rolleyes:

well said run.
yesterday i pulled into the stop for one guy, he gets on the bus playing with his i-pod or mobile and as soon as he's infront of me then fumbles for all his change.i let rip into him about having his fare ready rather than playing with is music.
slightly off the topic but those of you that listen to music players could you turn down the volume when travelling on public transport. i've had alot of passengers over the last few years using ear phones and yet the whole bus could hear the music and in some cases passengers have'nt been using e/phone the music's been on ****ing loud speaker. i had one f/n playing jihadd music or whatever it is on a loud speaker jasus i didn't know what the **** was going on in the bus.
now for those of you that want the train or bus to hear your whole life story while yakking on your moblile, please dont, i dont want to hear who you shagged last night, what you had for brekkie or how good of a kisser someone was. all i want to do is go home be it by train or bus and be relaxed after a hard days work
sorry stabu for hijacking your thread:o
i dont mind the fiddlers once most of it is there if your short of change within reason just say it to the driver most of us are not that bad and will give you the ticket your looking for. dont throw in €1.50 in1c,2c or 5c coins and expect to get a €2.20 ticket we generally have an idea of roughly whats there.

zagmund · 30-01-2009 11:45AM

Before I saw the light and got an annual ticket I used to offload a couple of coppers per bus trip - no big deal. I can't remember the exact fare, but when leaving the house I would grab some coins, making sure I had 10c in 2c coins or 5c in 1c coins and enough larger coins to make up the fare. What's the problem with that ? Do that a few times a week and you will make a dent in your copper mountain without delaying anything. Obviously it helps to have the exact fare including coppers in your hand getting on the bus and not try to count them out when you board.

Now that I have an annual ticket I find my copper mountain is building up again. So, I head down to Tesco once a month or so and buy 2l of milk - €1.69 or whatever. Pay at the self-service tills and that makes a huge dent in the mountain. The trick is to go in the morning when the coin boxes have been emptied and there's loads of room. If you go later in evening quite often the coin boxes are full and it rejects more of the coins.

I find that some people seem to regard 1c, 2c and even 5c coins as a nuisance and some sort of sub-money not worth bothering with. A lot of this has to do with the pricing structure in shops (and on buses and toll bridges and everywhere really) here. In the UK and US for example you might buy a mars bar for (say) 67p or 83c or something. This means that people are used to getting more than 1c in their change but just as importantly are used to giving out more/less than a single large value coin. I have a feeling it is a tiger thing what may start changing as people start to take better care of their finances.

z

AlekSmart · 30-01-2009 01:13PM

I expect the interest on that cash collected during that time period covers the very small amount of tickets reclaimed after 7+ years!

My understanding is that unclaimed change monies are held in a dedicated non-interest bearing account in perpetuity with only a small amount being released each year (with Ministerial permission) to fund the various good works of the Community Support Initiative.

However the entire Fare/Stage structure remains an anachronism from the days of the Dalkey Tram and is WAY overdue a major rethink.

However,as noted by the current Deloitte report,the area of cash fares vs prepaid ticketing is dominated by the Department of Transports firm grip on Fares policy.

The Deloitte report calls for the Dept to either regulate ALL of the Fare structure or NONE of it....however as always,one will wait a very long time for a Minister such as Mr Dempsey to take note of the simpler and more sensible suggestions of these Consultancy types.

stabu · 30-01-2009 01:33PM

Hey, I'm the OP!

I want to say: I welcome all rebukes! Even the stern ones from John_R! And the Roma inspired euphemism!

I welcome them because I knew there was an element of the Shambolic Smart Alec to this thought of mine (though hardly original)! It all had a cause, as I shall relate, ... em, briefly.

I had attempted last last night to buy a ten journey card at Supervalu, but was held up in a small queue due to a young nurse paying for some 20 or so items at what is meant to be an express, 10 item only till (there was a clear sign).

I waited her out and was then told, "no we don't sell bus tickets". But of course, I could have asked before, without wasting 8 minutes waiting ... but it's impolite to interrupt another person's transaction .. and after all, she was a nurse. So nothing was said.

Bear in mind, I said I have a bad knee! You begin to notice how badly laid paths are, as you try to avoid a dog turd or two on your slow way. So that all provided the seed for the devious plan.

I started with some 20 copper coins today, and I did not get a blink of the eyelid. The driver didn't count, but I don't think they're meant to. Visual inspection is probably all they have time for. If I was a driver, I'd just try and see the euro and 50 cent coins ... I wouldn't bother even with the 20c or 10c, never mind coppers. Safe driving is the task!, not money controlling.

I agree with all the messages of moderation here. You're right, with enough journeys, 20 copper coins is acceptable and will (normally) not cause delays. 180 one cent coins is plain nasty, to anyone anywhere.

OK, I've got my 10 journey bus card again now! The copper coloured beast is back, locked-up in its cage, where it belongs!

Tried coppers with Dublin Bus' exact fare policy?

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