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2009 Roads Allocation

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  • 28-01-2009 8:45pm
    #1
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭


    From the NRA Press Release
    Transport Minister Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D. and NRA CEO, Mr. Fred Barry today (28/01/08) announced details of the Government’s €1.44 billion investment in National Roads Programme 2009. This investment demonstrates Government’s continued commitment to upgrade the States national road infrastructure. It is being made under the Transport 21 Programme and the National Development Plan (NDP). The overall allocation represents an average investment of €120 million per month in Ireland’s national roads.

    • A total of €1.44 billion of funding for the National Roads Programme under Transport 21/NDP will be allocated in 2009. This funding will finance 315 projects throughout the country.

    • All remaining connecting sections of the Major Inter Urban (MIUs) motorways are now under construction. The NRA is on track to complete the four remaining MIUs by 2010.

    • As of January 1, 2009 approximately 478 km of new roads are under construction.

    • N21 Castleisland Bypass will start construction in 2009

    • 156 km of new roads will be completed in 2009. The projects are; N4 Leixlip to M50 Junction; N6 Athlone to Ballinasloe; N7 Nenagh to Limerick; N8 Fermoy to Mitchelstown; N9 Waterford to Knocktopher; N9 Kilcullen to Carlow, N51 Navan Inner Relief Road and the N25 Waterford City By Pass

    • Seven projects are moving forward into the Compulsory Purchase Order stage in 2009 .These projects are (N11) Gorey to Enniscorthy (incl Enniscorthy Bypass); (N20) Cork to Limerick Northern Section; (N20) Cork to Limerick Southern Section; (N22) Ballyvourney to Macroom; (N22) Cork Northern Ring Road; (N25) Carrigtwohill to Midleton and (N56) Mountcharles to Inver.

    • In 2009 work will continue on 17 major road projects at a total cost of almost €5 billion.

    Among the road projects delivered in 2008 are:

    • Phase 1 and 3 of the M50 (between the Ballymount and Blanchardstown Junctions)

    • Barrier-free electronic tolling which saw the removal of the West-link toll plaza (shaving 30 minutes off journey times for southbound motorists at peak hour)

    Speaking today about the €1.44 billion investment for national roads, Minister Dempsey, said:

    Ye can read the rest yerselves!
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    I suspected myself that the castleisland bypass would be given the go ahead at some satge but not this year. The tenders were out for this project for a while now, have to say im delighted. It really is a badly congested town and needs to be bypassed. They probably looked at adare but with that project too expensive (dual carraigeway bypass) they must have opted for the castleisland bypass.

    Mind you how many times has this government promised a road project to start during that year and the dont follow through. Example the N18 gort - crusheen should have started earlier than november last year.


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    #3
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Am I reading this wrong or will there be only one new road started next year, a 5.5 km stretch outside Castleisland?????


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    #4
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    bill_ashmount wrote: »
    Am I reading this wrong or will there be only one new road started next year, a 5.5 km stretch outside Castleisland?????

    Well the inter urbans are still ongoing and the gort to crusheen was declared as a project starting in 2009 even though construction started last november. So yep this year its only gort-crusheen and castleisland. Looking at the current state of our economy it isint suprising.


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    #5
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I was surprised about Castleisland until I remembered its a seriously marginal FF constituency compared to some of the others... surprise surprise.


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    #6
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    The fact that Castleisland is going ahead but not Newlands or the N11 gap shows just what a politically motivated dump this country has become.

    Newlands isnt even mentioned in all this. It is disgraceful that they're pushing other schemes ahead of this.

    It is also stupid that they're pedalling Gorey - Enniscorthy with the N11 gap still there. For gods sake, put the money for this CPO as well as Castleisland, delay something else (the N56 scheme for instance) and build the N11 gap and Newlands. Those should be top priority.

    Projects going towards the CPO stage is meaningless. They can decide what they're going to CPO, but I dont know if they actually have to fork over the cash.

    Good to see though that the M20 is getting fast-tracked. I think someone finally woke up about that one. It seems to have been changed from three schemes to two, a northern and a southern section, though where the middle will be I dont know. Rumours are that it'll be two PPP projects, possibly each tolled, but that is JUST A RUMOUR.

    Edit: Cork will be happy, 5 out of the 7 schemes going to CPO connect with Cork!


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    #7
    bill_ashmount
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭bill_ashmount


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Edit: Cork will be happy, 5 out of the 7 schemes going to CPO connect with Cork!

    Ya, from a Cork point of view that was very positive, assuming there will be progress after they go to CPO? Not sure if the whole announcement is just a PR exercise though.


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    #8
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Well, the fact that the N22 Cork Northern Ring Road scheme is going to CPO along with the M20 schemes shows that they've at least copped onto the fact that you can't just shove a full-blown motorway into the city without proper roads to distribute the traffic.

    But I sincerely hope the N22 (or more likely M22) designs have been revised. The junction designs are dreadful. The M8/M22 gives me nightmares, it's the most horrible creation I've ever seen, a junction straight from the depths of hell.

    The proposed designs were outdated when they came up with them and they're even more outdated now. We don't need more Dunkettles springing up about the place. Recession doesn't mean forward-planning goes out the window (well, that is presuming we actually had forward-planning to start with).


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    #9
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    One new scheme eh !

    Not enough people made a fuss about Newlands Cross but it seems some did about Castleisland . Both were equally cancelled in October if you will recall from that time.

    CPOs are indeed meaningless, both New Ross and N17 to and N17 around Tuam went through CPO / Bord Pleanala in the past 2 years and then zip

    N11 Arklow - Rathnew went through through CPO / Bord Pleanala Hearing in 2004 , remember and remember with the final go aheaad in January 2005 , 4 years ago .

    Wicklow CC Told Pooldude in Feb 2005 that
    Latest on Rathnew Arklow section from Wicklow CC:
    An Bord Pleanála approved the road on 31st January 2005. WE are now into the eight week judicial review period within which any aggrieved party can challenge any aspects of the decision through the courts. If such action is not taken within this period then the Road Scheme is finally confirmed. WCC is then free to commence construction of the scheme. At present we are aiming to start construction of the Road in 2006 with construction completed in 2008.

    New Ross has the final go ahead since Christmas Eve 2008 .

    At this rate at least 200km of national road will have cleared every statutory process by this time next year but there won't be a bean to build most of them this side of 2020.

    This time two years ago, January 2007 , a character who may be a Boardsie published this list here which looks like a Noel Dempsey back to the future scipt :(
    Project progressing towards construction (CPO/EIS underway/imminent):

    N4 Carrick-on-Shannon Bypass: 6 km of 2+1 carriageway.
    N5 Longford Bypass: 2.6 km of single carriageway from Junction with N4 to west of Longford Town.
    N7 Newlands Cross: Grade separated junction to replace at-grade crossroads between Naas Road and Belgard and Fonthill Roads.
    N11 Enniscorthy Bypass: 20 km of dual carriageway.
    N15 Ballybofey/Stranorlar Bypass: 16 km of dual carriageway.
    N17 Galway to Tuam: 22 km of dual carriageway to Tuam, probably commencing on new N6 near Ballinasloe.
    N22 Tralee Bypass/Tralee to Bealagrellagh: 11 km single carriageway eastern bypass of Tralee, from the N70 round to the N69. Also includes a new section of N22 from the Bypass at Camp to the existing N22 at Bealagrellagh.
    N22 Ballyvourney to Macroom: 42 km single carriageway.
    N25 New Ross Bypass: 16 km dual carriageway.
    N25 Carrigtwohill to Midleton: Upgrade of 4.5 km of existing poor quality dual carriageway.
    N26 Ballina/Bohola Phase 2: 18 km single carriageway

    I suppose Dempsey will announce a railway line to navan next week :(


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    #10
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    To be fair, while the majority of CPOs are pretty useless and mean nothing, the fact that the M20 schemes are being progressed so quickly shows that they may just be a little bit more committed to the scheme than I originally thought.

    Sadly though, despite its quick progression, it's approaching that all important brick wall... funding.


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    #11
    Stroke Politics
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Stroke Politics


    N51 Navan Inner Relief Road is already completed. It only took 3 years to build this piece of road, which opened the week before last. It's about a kilometre in legth......


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    #12
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The M20 bit is good news but it cannot possibly go to CPO before route selection and engineering design this year.

    It is, however, cheap for Dempsey to announce scads of CPOs and Hearings because they are cheap . It is a long running habit of his and gets cheap publicity for his backbench yahoos .

    N25 Carrigtwohill - Midleton is announced every year FFS :( , it was announced in 2007 and again in 2008 so why should 2009 be any different .....especially with local elections in June .

    Same for the Enniscorthy Bypass :(


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    #13
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    I think they've unofficially made route selection as IIRC someone on this forum had an uncle or someone who got a letter through the door saying that the CPOs would be underway this year and to more or less get out.

    Engineering design doesnt completely have to be done before CPO. Detailled design of the width of everything (and hence CPO) can be signed off long before the design of the central barrier for instance.


    One interesting thing I read in the Galway Advertiser (I know) today. They made specific reference to the "Gort to Tuam PPP". Now they're not exactly known for researching things, so if they mention this is likely to be true. That N18 Oranmore - Gort and M17 Oranmore - Tuam and Tuam Bypass have been lumped in as one PPP project. Toll or shadow toll, who knows, but its seeming more likely.


    edit: Carrigtwohill to Midleton. Agreed its been announced continually. 2007 announcement was because of Amgen. 2008 announcement was cos of 2007 delays. 2009 announcement is to give the impression somethings happening.


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    #14
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,860 ✭✭✭trellheim


    is there enough traffic M20 both sections to make it worth a 20 or 40 year PPP ?


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    #15
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Yeah the N11 Arklow Beehive section was bought and some houses demolished about a year ad a bit ago, it's all fenced off and awaiting construction.

    I think CPOing any property this year is a foolish, unless like the N20/N22 it's a high priority, because property will probably loose more value and cost less.


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    #16
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Galway County Council got €26m for the N17 this year which can only mean CPO funding .


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    #17
    johnnyc
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭johnnyc


    MYOB wrote: »
    I was surprised about Castleisland until I remembered its a seriously marginal FF constituency compared to some of the others... surprise surprise.


    Thats changed castleisland will changed into south kerry for the next election instead of north kerry...So north kerry was a marginal seat for fianna fail but south kerry isnt


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    #18
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,966 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    So to summarise, anything that's a PPP can go ahead (no financial commitment on the gov's end), but everything else is borked until 2011 at the earliest when the Interrubans are out of the way, as they're currently burning through all the money, leaving nothing seemingly for anything else.

    Well, at least we get the interurbans. :(
    Stroke Politics wrote: »
    N51 Navan Inner Relief Road is already completed. It only took 3 years to build this piece of road, which opened the week before last. It's about a kilometre in legth......
    Surprisingly , this is often the case. Many motorways have opened in this country in less than 3 years, but just cause a road is single carriageway doesn't make it significantly easier to build. If it's in or near a town like the N51, you could be constrained by existing buildings and roads, or possibly geography. Judging from the map, the N51 needed lots of bridges.

    The Tullamore Bypass will also take 3 years to build despite being single carriageway.


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    #19
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    johnnyc wrote: »
    Thats changed castleisland will changed into south kerry for the next election instead of north kerry...So north kerry was a marginal seat for fianna fail but south kerry isnt

    The tenders were supposed to be low so that might have encouraged the NRA to approve it.

    Castleisland Bypass article


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    #20
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    If thats the case why was Longford culled? That was even cheaper.


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    #21
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    spacetweek wrote: »
    The Tullamore Bypass will also take 3 years to build despite being single carriageway.

    A pedestrian bridge over the N11 took over a year to build beside the Dargle....


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    #22
    marmurr1916
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    The Gort-Tuam section of the N18/N17 has gone to tender:
    The N17/N18 Gort to Tuam PPP Scheme is for the design, construction, operation, maintenance and financing of approximately 57 kilometres of motorway/dual carriageway forming part of the N17/N18 national primary route together with several kilometres of associated side and link roads. It is intended that the scheme will also include the development and operation (plus associated financing) of a motorway service area. All such elements of work set out above are approximate only and may be reduced or added to by the Authority following dialogue with those Candidates selected to proceed to the next stage of the competition or otherwise at the Authority's absolute discretion. The Authority may also extend the operation and maintenance elements to include other parts of the national road network.
    CPV: 45233100, 45223710, 45233000.


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    #23
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    I didn't expect that...


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    #24
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭serfboard


    marmurr1916 wrote: »
    The Gort-Tuam section of the N18/N17 has gone to tender:

    I can't believe it! Woohoo! Hallelujah! etc. etc.

    OK, I won't get my hopes up too much. I know that things can reside on eTenders for a long time, and even disappear without ever being done.

    Two interesting things from the Tender.
    ... the component elements of the project (N18 Gort to Crusheen, M17 Galway to Tuam and N17 Tuam Bypass)...

    Thank God it includes the Tuam bypass as well.
    ... design, construction, operation, maintenance and financing ... The term of the contract is currently envisaged to be in the order of 30 years ...The scheme will also include the development and operation (plus associated financing) of a motorway service area ...

    So it's a PPP. And it includes a Service Area (I think on the Athenry-Tuam section). It doesn't say whether it'll be a Toll or Shadow Toll, however. I presume this will be a matter for negotiation.


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    #25
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Shadow toll I think. And the Service Area will be at Rathmorrisey, tacked onto the M18/6/17 roundabout. ( :( )

    Etenders I dont usually trust as they're either late/early/wrong, but I'm glad this has appeared. In any case, I'm not believing ANYTHING until I see diggers digging and even then until I see pics in this forum of something being built.

    I dont think we're going to see a complete halt to construction, despite the fact that the coffers are dry. Instead, I think we'll see one scheme starting per year until we have money again. Just one scheme per year, and possibly only a token one. But I dont think we'll see a COMPLETE halt. One measly scheme (like Castleisland) will keep the government being able to say "we're doing something". And thats more important than ANYTHING to them at the moment.

    So in 2008 that scheme was Gort - Crusheen (last token scheme)
    2009 Castleisland
    2010 Gort - Tuam PPP or if its too expensive the cheap-ass Longford bypass will be resurrected.

    We'll see, but I'm not holding any hope for this yet. Both N18 schemes have been on Etenders before AND BEEN CANCELLED. So we'll see.


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    #26
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Shadow toll I think. And the Service Area will be at Rathmorrisey, tacked onto the M18/6/17 roundabout. ( :( )

    Please tell me they're going to re-design that. It's an awful plan. A dreadful junction made even crappier by having an MSA stapled onto it.
    Etenders I dont usually trust as they're either late/early/wrong, but I'm glad this has appeared. In any case, I'm not believing ANYTHING until I see diggers digging and even then until I see pics in this forum of something being built.

    I dont think we're going to see a complete halt to construction, despite the fact that the coffers are dry. Instead, I think we'll see one scheme starting per year until we have money again. Just one scheme per year, and possibly only a token one. But I dont think we'll see a COMPLETE halt. One measly scheme (like Castleisland) will keep the government being able to say "we're doing something". And thats more important than ANYTHING to them at the moment.

    So in 2008 that scheme was Gort - Crusheen (last token scheme)
    2009 Castleisland
    2010 Gort - Tuam PPP or if its too expensive the cheap-ass Longford bypass will be resurrected.

    We'll see, but I'm not holding any hope for this yet. Both N18 schemes have been on Etenders before AND BEEN CANCELLED. So we'll see.

    True. We won't get too hopeful though. The MSA would provide a nice little revenue generator if it wasn't in such a stupid location.

    However, this scheme is (obviously) more likely than most to proceed to construction in 2010. If that's the case, it's not too bad.

    The other major PPP the NRA are really trying to rush ahead is the M20. What gives me a little hope is that the NRA clearly want to secure funding for these projects so they can get them going and convince everybody they're still doing a good job. The M17/M18/M20 are the main chunks of the Atlantic Corridor, so if they get them done it looks good for them.

    But there will be a hard toll, if not on the M18 then the M20 for sure.


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    #27
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    M20 definately, possibly two. AFAIK tho (could be wrong), theres none planned on the M17/M18 PPP. Because -

    1) Its too close to the M6 toll at Cappaghtaggle.
    2) The M17 is way offline as it is, it'll be empty if its tolled, even emptier than it will be as it is.
    3) Unless they restrict the Kiltiernan junction, everyone will just skip an M18 toll too, the old road will be too good as an alternate.

    As it stands, I'd accept just about any tolling as its more likely to get them built via tolled PPPs than via direct Government funding in the disaster we have thesedays.


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    #28
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    M20 definately, possibly two. AFAIK tho (could be wrong), theres none planned on the M17/M18 PPP.

    I'd say two M20 tolls would be overkill. The motorway is only just around 90 km. The best option is to have one toll just south of Mallow and make it more expensive rather than have two cheaper tolls. I'd rather pay 3.80 once than 1.90 twice. The reason I say build it south of Mallow is obviously to catch people out who'll try and avoid the motorway and force them through Mallow. Sounds mean, but we NEED to use these roads and pay the tolls otherwise we won't get anywhere.

    And why is there no M20 MSA mentioned anywhere?


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    #29
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    Please tell me they're going to re-design that. It's an awful plan. A dreadful junction made even crappier by having an MSA stapled onto it.

    It's not perfect design but let's be honest, how busy this junction is going to be? It is far away from anywhere apart from Galway which is at the end just 70k city/town. I think it is going to work fairly well. It could be done better but is is not a tragedy.
    Most traffic is going to be on E-W relation on M6 which is not going to use junction at all.


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    #30
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Geogregor wrote: »
    It's not perfect design but let's be honest, how busy this junction is going to be? It is far away from anywhere apart from Galway which is at the end just 70k city/town. I think it is going to work fairly well. It could be done better but is is not a tragedy.
    Most traffic is going to be on E-W relation on M6 which is not going to use junction at all.

    True, I wouldn't expect traffic to be huge. But still... for the same amount of money it takes to build that junction, or a modest increase at the most, they could design it as a whirlpool or other free-flow design. Much more efficient, much safer, no congestion and future-proofed entirely. And all within the same land-take, approximately within the same price-range and with large benefits.

    The only justification I can see for building that junction is to stick the MSA onto it. But as I have said many times before, the MSA is utterly useless. Who is going to use it? If you're travelling to Galway, you're hardly going to detour so close to your destination, and if you're travelling from Galway, you're likely to have stocked up on petrol already.


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    #31
    Geogregor
    Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭Geogregor


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    True, I wouldn't expect traffic to be huge. But still... for the same amount of money it takes to build that junction, or a modest increase at the most, they could design it as a whirlpool or other free-flow design. Much more efficient, much safer, no congestion and future-proofed entirely. And all within the same land-take, approximately within the same price-range and with large benefits.

    The only justification I can see for building that junction is to stick the MSA onto it. But as I have said many times before, the MSA is utterly useless. Who is going to use it? If you're travelling to Galway, you're hardly going to detour so close to your destination, and if you're travelling from Galway, you're likely to have stocked up on petrol already.
    People still might want to use on highway facilities. There are service stations on M25 around London even if there are plenty of petrol stations in greater London area. It is all about convenience.
    And I think any free flow junction would require much more ground.
    The only link which might be needed in future is ramp from Galway to M18 southbound. But only if traffic is really heavy.
    It s going to be OK, there are roundabout junctions on London orbital, for example:M25/A3, M25/A10 or M25/A1(M) (this one has even services which you can access from roundabout) they are all DC and are much busier than you can expect around Galway in next century.


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