GPA has jobs for the boys

Taxipete29 wrote: »

The GAA is protecting its product. If inter-county players have no job and have to leave the country then everyone loses out. Lets say " The Gooch" or Joe Canning have no job and leave Ireland. Both Kerry and Galway are robbed of their best players. The fans miss out on watching these fantastic players. There are two less heros for youngsters to try to emulate.

GAA players provide entertainment for thousands of people for no financial reward. That is why there has been a certain amount of " looking after their own" when it comes to jobs for players. I say best of luck to them. They deserve it for the sacrifices they make for the game.

Just a thought, but maybe the cash rich GAA could actually pay their players rather than getting grants from the state (rightfully pulled) or asking employers to pull a stroke for them?

Its the same old Gah - the rules almost apply.

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Its an amatuer sport and should always remain so. Thats the beauty of the sport. Players do it for the sport and for their club or county.

Spare us. The GAA were happy to allow professionalism via the grant system.

Players in every sport play for their club or country. You don't have a monopoly on player pride, despite what you tell yourselves.

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Employers pulling what strokes????

Hiring a Gah player at the expense of a qualified non-Gah player.

Orizio wrote: »

And how has paying players worked for the rugby and soccer club game in Ireland? Give players contracts and you open the road to clubs losing their very best players, like we see with the AIL, and that would be an absolute disaster. It would make little financial, or practical sense.

Well in rugby it has brought home four European Cups.

Tighten up on the rule that you can only play for your county of birth. No transfers.

This line would be all the more credible from the GAA heads if there wasn't an acceptance of professionalism via the now pulled grants system.

Orizio wrote: »

Professionalism has benefited the international team, which is irrelevent to the GAA since we don't really have one, and has practially ruined the club game regarding attendances, popularity and so on. A strong club scene is essential to keeping young lads not good enough for provincial acadamies playing rugby, and in GAA, its the heart of the association. Any move that may damage the club scene has to be avoided.

Depends what you mean by club game. Another layer of the pyramid was inserted in terms of the Provincial clubs, and they are thriving.

But the core point is that the recession is doing that damage for you.

So either:

a: Pay players their market value and keep them in Ireland

or

b: Don't, but stop whinging when your amateur players have to move to work like every other sports players do.

You can't have it both ways.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Spare us. The GAA were happy to allow professionalism via the grant system.

Players in every sport play for their club or country. You don't have a monopoly on player pride, despite what you tell yourselves.



Hiring a Gah player at the expense of a qualified non-Gah player.



Well in rugby it has brought home four European Cups.

Tighten up on the rule that you can only play for your county of birth. No transfers.

This line would be all the more credible from the GAA heads if there wasn't an acceptance of professionalism via the now pulled grants system.

I highlighted the above bit as I fail to see what you mean by it. I am not a player or affiliated to any club. I am just an avid supporter.

I never said there was a monopoly on player pride, your assuming again.

Nowhere has it been stated that players would be hired ahead of anyone.

Amatuer boxers reciave grants and maintain amatuer status. Why cant GAA players be the same ??

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Tighten up on the rule that you can only play for your county of birth. No transfers.

Pretty sure if you went professional employment law wouldn't allow that.

This is the dilemma of all amateur sports; its incredibly difficult to keep them that way. The stupid thing here is the GPA have come out and been explicit about their approach; there's a lot to be said for being circumspect about this kind of thing (it went on for years in rugby - everyone knew about it and colluded without it being newsworthy).

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Just a thought, but maybe the cash rich GAA

They invest this money in grass roots sport in schools and communities, they provide employment. They do the work of the State in this regard. Get some perspective please. They also return millions and millions to us every year from the tax revenue generated by their activities.

could actually pay their players rather than getting grants from the state (rightfully pulled) or asking employers to pull a stroke for them?

The GAA don't get any grants from the State for players. It's an amateur organisation. You're confusing the GPA and the GAA. They have no relation whatsoever. The GAA aren't asking employers to pull any strokes. It's the GPA, not the "GAA". GPA. GAA.

Its the same old Gah - the rules almost apply.

Yet another clueless and bigotted opinion on the GAA, how tiresome.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

All sports do that. In fact the professional sports employ many multiples of the people the GAA do. So what?

So what? Your comment was that the GAA is a cash rich operation. They are. My point response is this money is invested in grass roots sport, employment, equipment and so on. Your response is "so what?". I give up.

The difference I suppose is that other sports don't go on about it, they just get on with it.

I hope the mods will alow this one sentence in caps. WE ARE POSTING IN A DEBATE ABOUT THE GAA AND YOU ARE WHINGING ABOUT THEM. THATS WHY WERE "GOING ON" ABOUT IT.

If whingers didn't go on bitterly about the GAA 24/7 it wouldn't need to be said. Mind your own sport.

Thats a fair point. But its worth noting the GAA have backed both GPA schemes.

After years of negotiation they've come to a point where in order to get the GPA out of their hair, they've agreed to the GPA's requests for certain things. The GAA want nothing to do with the GPA but are forced to deal with them. The GPA represent a tiny fraction of GAA players.

The GAA have no problem with players recieving payment

They very much do have a problem with players receiving payment.

yet still call themselves amateur organisation.

It is an amateur organisation. Players aren't paid. They've acceded to the GPA's bullying overtures to them and reluctantly agreed, as I said, so that the GPA will piss off and leave them alone to get on with their business. The tax breaks scheme also comes with a whole lot of responsibilities for the players, including community involvement in certain things. Visiting schools, handing out medals and things like that.

Thats both sides of the mouth stuff, and the wink nudge culture of the GAA shines through in the "jobs for the lads" scheme.

How many times? The GPA is not the GAA. GPA. GAA. GAA. GPA. They GPA are despised by, I would say, a majority of GAA people and fans.

I've no hesitation at this point in saying you absolutely do not have the faintest idea of what the GAA do, who the GPA are and your opinion of the situation is completely myopic and uninteresting.

Bigotted? How so?

The opinion of you and people of your ilk is bitter, myopic, unbalanced and you tar everybody with the same brush. You don't even seem to understand that the GAA and GPA are two different organistions who have been at loggerheads since the founding of the GPA. Your opinion amounts to "all GAA people are stupid, devious people and the GAA is a sinister organisation who eat babies and steal money". I'm absolutely sick of hearing it, it's so completely unbalanced and idiotic it's unreal.

As I say I'm a soccer player and ex-GAA player. I despise the FAI but have the ability to distinguish between the good and bad in soccer. Most GAA fans are soccer and rugby fans too. Go into any club bar in the country and they'll be watching a variety of sports.

Here comes the defensive overkill from the GAA crusaders

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

So what? Your comment was that the GAA is a cash rich operation. They are. My point response is this money is invested in grass roots sport, employment, equipment and so on. Your response is "so what?". I give up.

Every sport investes in grass roots, and most manage to avoid sponging off the state to pay their players, a scheme that was thankfully shelved.

In fact, the GAA are copying the FAI's grassroots model.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

I hope the mods will alow this one sentence in caps. WE ARE POSTING IN A DEBATE ABOUT THE GAA AND YOU ARE WHINGING ABOUT THEM. THATS WHY WERE "GOING ON" ABOUT IT.

You brought up this grassroots work. Lets be clear, the Gah do fantastic work and are to be commended. But so do the FAI, IRFU etc.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

If whingers didn't go on bitterly about the GAA 24/7 it wouldn't need to be said. Mind your own sport.

My sport is fine. Rovers have full houses every week, a team full of underage internationals and are all over the worlds media in advance of the kickabout with Real Madrid. At a broader level, there are more people playing football than hurling and Gaelic combined, and thats before we include 5 and 7 a side.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

After years of negotiation they've come to a point where in order to get the GPA out of their hair, they've agreed to the GPA's requests for certain things. The GAA want nothing to do with the GPA but are forced to deal with them. The GPA represent a tiny fraction of GAA players.
They very much do have a problem with players receiving payment.
It is an amateur organisation. Players aren't paid. They've acceded to the GPA's bullying overtures to them and reluctantly agreed, as I said, so that the GPA will piss off and leave them alone to get on with their business. The tax breaks scheme also comes with a whole lot of responsibilities for the players, including community involvement in certain things. Visiting schools, handing out medals and things like that.

With respect, waffle. The GAA gave permission to a scheme that would have seen intercounty players recieve money based on how far they went in the inter county cup. You can't allow payments and still call yourselves amateur, its totally counterintuitave.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

How many times? The GPA is not the GAA. GPA. GAA. GAA. GPA. They GPA are despised by, I would say, a majority of GAA people and fans.

I've no hesitation at this point in saying you absolutely do not have the faintest idea of what the GAA do, who the GPA are and your opinion of the situation is completely myopic and uninteresting.

Again, they are the players union, representing the bulk of the GAA's elite players and have an input in GAA policy. You are protesting far too much.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

The opinion of you and people of your ilk is bitter, myopic, unbalanced and you tar everybody with the same brush. You don't even seem to understand that the GAA and GPA are two different organistions who have been at loggerheads since the founding of the GPA. Your opinion amounts to "all GAA people are stupid, devious people and the GAA is a sinister organisation who eat babies and steal money". I'm absolutely sick of hearing it, it's so completely unbalanced and idiotic it's unreal.

Thats just an incoherent ramble.

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

As I say I'm a soccer player and ex-GAA player. I despise the FAI but have the ability to distinguish between the good and bad in soccer. Most GAA fans are soccer and rugby fans too. Go into any club bar in the country and they'll be watching a variety of sports.

Why do you even feel the need to say that?

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Every sport investes in grass roots, and most manage to avoid sponging off the state to pay their players, a scheme that was thankfully shelved.

In fact, the GAA are copying the FAI's grassroots model.

Grand. But I was replying to a particular point of yours. You need to understand this when replying again. "So what?" only aggravates people.

You brought up this grassroots work. Lets be clear, the Gah do fantastic work and are to be commended. But so do the FAI, IRFU etc.

Nobody said otherwise. I'll repeat: you said the GAA was cash rich (implying they have money fights at HQ). I'm saying they are an amateur organisation and they put their money to good use. So the point about being cash rich is irrelevant. I'd prefer them to be cash rich investing in communities than in a permanent state of semi-bankruptcy, relying on handouts like free soccer only "municipal" stadiums in order to keep their business in business.

My sport is fine. Rovers have full houses every week, a team full of underage internationals and are all over the worlds media in advance of the kickabout with Real Madrid.

Ah. That explains a lot.

At a broader level, there are more people playing football than hurling and Gaelic combined, and thats before we include 5 and 7 a side.

What does this have to do with the subject at hand? This ESRI report will be pried from your cold dead hands I imagine. The lengths you lot go too. My club is bigger than your club. We've won more than you. My dad is bigger than your dad. It's a pathetically childish viewpoint. If you include lads kicking balls on street corners and in back gardens and the numbers go way up too. While we're at it though, you could fill Shamball Rovers ground for a season with one GAA full house.

With respect, waffle. The GAA gave permission to a scheme that would have seen intercounty players recieve money based on how far they went in the inter county cup. You can't allow payments and still call yourselves amateur, its totally counterintuitave.

They're not allowing or sanctioning payments to players. Players are not getting paid. Just like professional soccer players and rugby players some GAA players will get tax breaks, amounting to 40 euro a week or something. They have to do community work and train professionally in return. Athletics is an amateur sport but they get grants to train. It's not a contradiction and not everybody is happy with it. Nobody is saying a GAA player getting money for sponsorship is breaking amateur rules. So it goes for the tax break scheme. Some GAA players will refuse it, along with membership of the GPA.

Again, they are the players union, representing the bulk of the GAA's elite players and have an input in GAA policy.

The GAA want nothing to do with them. Where they need to deal with them, solely on player welfare issues, they will. That's about it. Again, you've proved your ignorance on the GAA, policies are decided by democratic structures, certainly not the GPA. They have no input into official GPA policy. Except where GAA officials are briefed to deal with them.

Thats just an incoherent ramble.

Nope, you're just talking a whole lot of nonsense that needs to be put straight.

Why do you even feel the need to say that?[/quote]

Because I find many LOI fans to be hold an irrational, unbalanced mindset when it comes to the GAA that is only reciprocated by very few GAA fans. Almost every single GAA player I know plays 5-a-side or plays soccer informally. Every time I'm in a club they're watching soccer, rugby, even the cricket gets a run out. GAA people are worldly, they play sport and support sport, not myopic and bitter supporting only 1 tiny club, fighting each other after games. If a Dublin club was in an All-Ireland final you'd get a large degree of support from other Dublin clubs, generally. If soccer clubs had clubhouses (we barely have jerseys and play on public parks) the fans would pull the TV off the wall if the GAA was on. I can only I put it down to an inferiority complex. After all it must be gutting to watch Croke Park being filled time and time again, generating 10s of millions of euro for GAA sports year in, year out. Or maybe even getting that feeling when you get to see it yourself in a half-filled stadium when the national team players there. Then you have to go back to a half-filled tin shed watching English league cast-offs play football tennis on a sloppy pitch or even worse going to a half-built freebie stadium. Enjoy Real Madrid, you'll get to see what a real football team looks like.

I accept any infraction for this!

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

They've said they're prepared to INVEST in publically owned sports facilities. Ie give money to the State to help them build publically owned sports facilities that the whole community will own equally. Very forward thinking. Unfortunately there isn't a soccer business in the country in the same position. Rugby Union and GAA clubs are fanastically well organised. Why can't soccer businesses get their act together?

I'm not inclined to wade through all your posts as I really don't have time, but this needs to be challenged.

The FAI have their act together in a way that they never have before. The FAI's first project was to increase participation and improve grassroots facilities. They did so in spectacular fashion and in 10 years have dwarfed all other sports in terms of participation levels.

The second project was to fix the LoI, which is ongoing. In doing so, they sought and got capital grants to improve the stadia up and down the land. The GAA was not going to be caught on the hop again and formally demanded to be included in all football projects that had public funding recently. Landsdowne Road, Lusk and Abbotstown all saw GAA delegations demadning access to the facilities and in Tallaght they went to the High Court and attempted to injunct.

AT NO POINT DID THE GAA OFFER TO HELP FUND ANY OF THESE FACILITIES. They demanded free access and the stadia redesigned at huge cost to others for them. On Tallaght they were forced to conceded that the cost of the facility would increase €15m, capacity would be slashed to 1,500 and the GAA didn't plan on using it.

The GAA's strategy is clearly sabotage by legal or political pressure.

So bearing in mind you have been caught in a direct lie, I'll take the rest of your posts with a large pinch of salt.

The GAA are streets ahead of the FAI with their organisation and ability to pull whole communities together. Soccer participation may be ahead of GAA ( would like to see figures to support this though) But I would say that has more to do with the general popularity of the sport, through the premiership and champions league and less to do with the FAI themselves.

Alot of people here just seem to want to bash the GAA which I cant understand. Ok it may seem ridiculous to some they dont pay players but get over it, its an amateur sport and most people are happy for it to continue that way. Can you imagine the cost of a ticket for a Dubs game if the players were being paid??

While I am not the biggest fan of the GAA themselves, they have a right to protect their product and help keep their players employed.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Well in rugby it has brought home four European Cups.

Lol . So what? There is really only 4 countries in the competition. And in fairness rugby is a minority sport on this island compared to the GAA.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

The GAA still get more than 60% of Capital Grants despite being a minority sport with less than 30% of team sport participation. And you have the arrogance to accuse football of 'begging'? Unreal.

At least the GAA (and probably 9/10 other sporting organisations) will get value out of every cent, the FAI will spend it on a non-existent stadium or a lose a few hundred thousand to Jimmy the Greek and his tickets. I must read that ESRI report. Horse racing gets alot of money. It doesn't have that many participants. It's not the issue. The GAA is a cultural and community organisation as well as a sporting one. A few fat lads, like myself, kicking the ball around a public pitch is a soccer team but we're not a club or a community. We don't deserve any money. A small GAA club does. I'm not too interested in the politics and stats of sports. Lots of people play lots of sports and that's great. My favourite sports are cricket, rugby union, football, soccer and hurling. I don't place one above the other. They're exciting and good in their own way with brilliant hard working people and organisations running them. Except for the FAI. The GAA has 800,000 members by the way, that's in the ESRI report too.

Here are some more stats, I think from the 2005 report:

Participation rates among male adults-
Soccer 13%
Gaelic football 8%
Hurling 5%
5 a side soccer 4%
Golf 17%
Rugby- not even in top 15 which means less than 2%

Attendance at sports by adults:
Football 34%
Hurling 23%
Soccer 16%
Rugby 8%

Participation on a club team by secondary schoolchildren (boys)
Soccer 31%
Gaelic football 29%
Hurling 18%
Rugby 8%

Participation on a club team by primary schoolchildren (boys)
Soccer 40%
Gaelic football 37%
Hurling 24%
Rugby 15%

Club members as percentage of population (male)
Gaelic football 13%
Hurling 4%
Soccer 6%

Volunteering (male adult)
Gaelic football 24%
Soccer 22%
Hurling 19%
Camogie 3%
Rugby 3%

Find me the 'public record' where the Gah offered to 'invest' in any of the four named projects that they tried to muscle in on please.

I said they're prepared to invest in future plans, I'm trying to find Padraic Duffy's statement on it. Abbotstown - always multi sport, they never tried to muscle in on anything. Lansdowne - was a promise made to the GAA and tied into the Abbotstown thing.

It also runs contrary to what the government promised in 2004, when it abandoned the idea of building the Bertie Bowl at Abbotstown, in which the GAA had promised to hold key fixtures. The government said the new 50,000-seater Lansdowne Road would be able to host GAA games.
“When the Lansdowne Road project was announced, it was stated quite clearly that the project would be designed for Gaelic games,” said Danny Lynch, a GAA spokesman. “We said there were matches and events that Croke Park was just too big for and that Parnell Park is too small for.”


Lusk and Tallaght are council facilities, as I've said they should be available to all sports played in the community, not soccer only grounds. Which stupid and a criminal waste of taxpayers money.

Here is the Gah trying to get in on LR.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article696512.ece

Fair enough but it's another example of the GAA being given a bum deal. They were promised one thing and it wasn't followed through on. If the GAA promised the use of Croke Park following the completion of Lansdowne and reneged on it I can only imagine what the reaction would be.

Tallaght has been done to death, suffice to say the Judge called the GAA position vexatious and malicious.

The judge was wrong imo.

The FAI have worked hard to get the Lusk project up and running. They link in with local government and get a much needed project going for the local communityand then the Gah come in crying like girls that they aren't involved AFTER the planning consultation period. If they wanted in, why not do it in a spirit of partnership rather than aggression?This after the local club got a huge wedge. What right have the GAA to play on football pitches by the way?

All the GAA want is to be included, not at the expense of others sports, as soccer supporters wish, but alongside them.

Its very simple. If the Gah want to share facilities with other sports, drop rule 42. All you are trying to do is keep your facilities to yourselves and insist on using other sports grounds.

Unfortunately you'd couldn't trust a lot of LOI supporters in GAA grounds. I honestly believe they'd take out their hatred with criminal damage. As for rule 42, club grounds and county grounds are owned locally. Even if Rule 42 was removed tomorrow most clubs and counties would not be in a position to offer the use of their grounds for anything other than 1 off events and certainly not habitual use from other sports, professional soccer businesses would be laughed out of it if they tried to turn a profit off the back of the local club's ground, quite rightly. Most clubs have dozens of people at least who have put in a life's work developing top quality facilities, they're not just going to open the door to their facilities which in all probability are overused as it is.

The GAA's position is simple: where the State is investing in expensive "community" facilities each sport played in that community should represented. They said they're prepared to invest in these facilities with the Government of the day. The GAA has made big strides forward in recent years. Saving the bacon of the FAI (I'll excuse the IRFU as they run a tight ship) by opening up Croke Park. There is absolutely no reason that soccer, rugby and GAA should be not be represented in new facilities.

Like the GPA position here, its entirely illogical and pure stroke play. The GAA as an organisation lives in a grey area of winks, nudges and cute hoorism. It was a necesasry evil at one stage, but like the politicians and church, its time they simply moved on.

The GAA has moved on with the times and is a very progressive organisation. Croke Park for example. Rule 21 is another. Not sure what you're talking about with winks, nudges and cute hoorism. That's just drivel.

Terrontress wrote: »

taxipete. If you read the posts above, it apparently is not the GAA but the GPA trying to get their people jobs ahead of others.

And by the way, I have never got a job through a nudge and a wink or favouritism of any kind.

I know, but its the GAA who are being bashed. The principle remains the same

I never got a job through favourtism either, but I did get my feet inside a few doors because I knew the right people. I will make no apologies for this and would do it again in a flash. Do you think anyone on the dole would care if they got a job through favourtism?? I think not

What a load of chip on shoulder bigotted garbage. Total propaganda from the Jones Road bunker. Loving the Millwall-esque hyperbole too.

One point of fact.

What have the Dublin County Board done with the 24 acres the SDCC gave them in Rathcoole 15 years ago? You being such a zealot when it comes to the use of scarce public resources should be up in arms about it?

Or is it somehow different when the Council do deals with the GAA?

youcrazyjesus! wrote: »

Seeing as we're talking facts it should be noted Dublin GAA bought that land. They weren't given it. They can do what they like with the property they bought. They've done SFA so far but the use of the lands is dependent on certain roads being built. Not sure what the latest is with it but whenever it is built it will be a large complex and a base for Dublin county teams. It won't be just a stadium. I can't imagine the mood for handing over the land they bought for soccer is high on the agenda after the Tallaght fiasco.

Come on. They bought the land for €1 an acre - the same deal Rovers got.

But to clarify, I don't claim that land for football. Its your land as you say. I would just appreciate the same respect from the GAA for our proprty rights.

But the point remains, that land was handed over to the GAA at the same time Rovers got land in Tallaght. If Rovers doing a deal with the council is criminal and assorted other hyperbole, why is the GAA sitting on land that it was given to do something for the community an outrage?

Unless, wait for it, you are a hypocrite?