Irishmen/women in the British Armed Forces

IrishRover94 · 14-02-2010 10:56PM #1

If an Irish person joins the brits army are they disloyal to the republic? i was just wonderin cos im intersted in joining them!

bleedinrapidbud · 14-02-2010 11:03PM

No my Grandad and his brother were in the Brits his brother was killed in action.My friends cousin is in the Brits and my friend is joining soon so no its not disloyal but i still think their all mad:D

Poccington · 15-02-2010 12:55AM

Are we really gonna go through this again?

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 01:05AM

Poccington wrote: »

Are we really gonna go through this again?

Has this topic been discussed before? if so why don't you as a mod post a link to it? or are we to await enlightenment?

They are not disloyal to the Republic in my opinion, but they are immoral to join an armed forces involved in illegal wars which lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Local-womanizer · 15-02-2010 01:09AM

barney 20v wrote: »

Has this topic been discussed before? if so why don't you as a mod post a link to it? or are we to await enlightenment?

In fairness to Poc a quick search will throw up numourus threads on this topic, all ending in insults and petty arguments.

And no,not disloyal,its only a job.

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 01:14AM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

In fairness to Poc a quick search will throw up numourus threads on this topic, all ending in insults and petty arguments.

And no,not disloyal,its only a job.

Is it? ask the 1,000,000 dead Iraqis what they think of the british armed forces "work"

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 01:18AM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

In fairness to Poc a quick search will throw up numourus threads on this topic, all ending in insults and petty arguments.

And no,not disloyal,its only a job.

Only a job? lol.... what a job to have eh?

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 01:31AM

LIGHTNINGtemp wrote: »

Try telling that to the families of the all the Irish soldiers that fought and died in WW1 and WW2. I have a my officer interview for the Royal Navy next month and I dont care if people have the above attitude.

But old pip! the Republic did not exist during WW1!
John Redmond lead thousands of Irish men to a needless death on behalf of the "british empire" with his false promises....

I am glad you " DON'T CARE ".... It seems to be a trait necessary to join the british military, as is questionable morals and the ability to kill large numbers of innocents on behalf of the "british" government.

Local-womanizer · 15-02-2010 02:23AM

Dident take long.............

BigDuffman · 15-02-2010 09:00AM

All aboard the crusty / provo train....next stop. Statistics, empty rhetoric and inflated opinions.

No shame at all. The BA is a highly professional modern army. Offers great oppportunities to anyone interested in a military lifestyle.

cyrusdvirus · 15-02-2010 10:47AM

yawn.

Troll alert

Vorsprung · 15-02-2010 12:42PM

In before the lock....

lcrcboy · 15-02-2010 03:05PM

If your interested in a military lifestyle join them, your always going to get people online telling you your disloyal and a traitor but the truth is in real life most people in Ireland dont care anymore, nobody is going to stop you in the street and call you a traitor, or ring you up and say something similar, I think yo will find most people to be interested in what you are doing and ask questions and then move on to another topic of conversation

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 05:22PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Dident take long.............

Please do expand on that comment......

Local-womanizer · 15-02-2010 05:29PM

barney 20v wrote: »

Please do expand on that comment......

Whether you like it or not Irishmen have always been joining the BA and will continue to do so. At the end of the day those who do join dont give a toss about what the so called patriots here think,and rightly so.

And yes,what a job it is,its interesting and offers so much more compared to other jobs in civvie life.And you recieve money in return for your services,so yes it is technically a job.

This really has been done to death. One thing I have always been told is "Patriotism wont pay the bills!"

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 05:38PM

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Whether you like it or not Irishmen have always been joining the BA and will continue to do so. At the end of the day those who do join dont give a toss about what the so called patriots here think,and rightly so.

And yes,what a job it is,its interesting and offers so much more compared to other jobs in civvie life.And you recieve money in return for your services,so yes it is technically a job.

This really has been done to death. One thing I have always been told is "Patriotism wont pay the bills!"

Who mentioned anything about patriots?
Is it beyond your comprehension that someone may object to the british army and not be a republican or a "patriot"?
If you consider fighting illegal wars for a corrupt government is "interesting" then i fear your grasp on what is moral and human is within the levels deemed necessary to join the "british army"

InTheTrees · 15-02-2010 06:47PM

I dont see anything wrong with it. Times have changed.

It would be nice however if our young men and women chose to serve the Republic rather than somehwre else.

concussion · 15-02-2010 06:53PM

Irish men have been fighting for the British and everyone else for centuries. Why stop now? If you want to go and live up to the great soldiers who have gone ahead of you.

I'm quite happy with my moral compass Barney, you saying otherwise doesn't bother me. Go drag your barstool somewhere else.

Fratton Fred · 15-02-2010 07:08PM

barney 20v wrote: »

Who mentioned anything about patriots?
Is it beyond your comprehension that someone may object to the british army and not be a republican or a "patriot"?
If you consider fighting illegal wars for a corrupt government is "interesting" then i fear your grasp on what is moral and human is within the levels deemed necessary to join the "british army"

Britain won't be involved in another Iraq type war in our lifetime, too many lessons learnt from the last one.

I'd be interested on why you say "Wars" though and why you think the British government is corrupt. Using phrases like that doesn't really help your arguement.

lcrcboy · 15-02-2010 07:58PM

barney 20v wrote: »

Who mentioned anything about patriots?
Is it beyond your comprehension that someone may object to the british army and not be a republican or a "patriot"?
If you consider fighting illegal wars for a corrupt government is "interesting" then i fear your grasp on what is moral and human is within the levels deemed necessary to join the "british army"

not saying your wrong or right but do you have facts to back up what your saying, you should think about that before firing around accusations which are effecting a persons decission on a life changing choice

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 09:06PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Britain won't be involved in another Iraq type war in our lifetime, too many lessons learnt from the last one.

I'd be interested on why you say "Wars" though and why you think the British government is corrupt. Using phrases like that doesn't really help your arguement.

I am not arguing!
I simply offered my opinion...
I could offer the whole WMD issue as proof of british double standards and corruption or i could use the example of last week when the uk announced they are trying to bribe taliban fighters from continuing to butcher brit soldiers in Helmand etc....
The british government say one thing and then do another.
What ever happened to "no negotiating with terrorists" ?

iceage · 15-02-2010 10:45PM

You could probably say the same about other Governments as well..Lets not forget that the British weren't the only ones in Iraq looking for WMD's. And as far as I know every Government says one thing and does the other...all for the greater good of course and to keep those of the tinfoil hat brigade on they're toes my man.

Oh and as an afterthought barney, Welcome to the Military Forum.

barney 20v · 15-02-2010 10:55PM

concussion wrote: »

Irish men have been fighting for the British and everyone else for centuries. Why stop now? If you want to go and live up to the great soldiers who have gone ahead of you.

I'm quite happy with my moral compass Barney, you saying otherwise doesn't bother me. Go drag your barstool somewhere else.

Oh a personal slur...... how quaint!
If you think joining ANY military which fights illegal and immoral wars is justifiable
then i'd suggest getting your "moral compass" re-calibrated.
Iraq,1 million dead in a country with no means to threaten the "uk" No legal basis for attack or intervention
Afghanistan, A major military attack coupled with a massive attempt to bribe the very people they are attacking!

concussion · 15-02-2010 11:22PM

That's nice, thanks.

Edit: Actually I do retract that about the barstool, seeing as you're not going down that road.

iceage · 16-02-2010 12:25AM

No need to thank me Barny, I was just being polite..too much green tea you see, makes me all mellow.

Were you trying to make a point, I seemed to have missed it earlier.

Delancey · 16-02-2010 12:35AM

InTheTrees wrote: »

I dont see anything wrong with it. Times have changed.

It would be nice however if our young men and women chose to serve the Republic rather than somehwre else.

The above post seems to be contradicting itself.......... my nephew is interested in a military career and I have advised him that the first thing he needs to do is look to the UK for that career. The Irish military is underfunded and mickey mouse with limited opportunities ( said with respect to those here who have served in the Irish Defence Forces ) , I would advise anyone looking to a military career to forget Ireland , and oh yeah , recruitment freeze here anyway :rolleyes:

barney 20v · 16-02-2010 12:42AM

iceage wrote: »

No need to thank me Barny, I was just being polite..too much green tea you see, makes me all mellow.

Were you trying to make a point, I seemed to have missed it earlier.

ah..... sarcasm.... the lowest form of wit.
If you are ignorant to the facts concerning british policy in the mid -east then who am i to try to educate you eh old pip?

so that makes 1 personal slur and one backhanded sarcastic remark directed at me on this thread....
If people do not like to openly admit the illegality of the " COALITION OF THE WILLING'S" war on terror then it is their business... but to openly encourage enlisting in an army involved in such affairs is imho wrong.

No bar stool, no high horse, no republican or patriotic leanings... just facts and a moral judgement .

Local-womanizer · 16-02-2010 12:50AM

Barney,I dident mention the Patriot thing in relation to you.

The OP asked if it was disloyal to join the BA,a question which has been asked here more times than I care to remember,but it all ends the same ie,barstool Republicans throwing their old-fashioned comments around and insulting every coalition soldier!

Its not fact yet though is it? Nothing suggest that Afghanistan is a corrupt war. It has been pointed out in the media that paying off Taliban fighters is an effort to destabilise the Taliban network. Make it worthwhile for the grunts to stay out of the fight,but still pursue the leadership.

As for Iraq,many an expert are currently sorting out the ins and outs of that offensive.

Out of interest,do you object to the PDF in Afghanistan? Or are they corrupt aswell?

iceage · 16-02-2010 01:28AM

barney 20v wrote: »

ah..... sarcasm.... the lowest form of wit.
If you are ignorant to the facts concerning british policy in the mid -east then who am i to try to educate you eh old pip? QUOTE]

Finally!! someone who gets my humour.. About bloody time.:)

Facts barney give us facts, and none of that google/wiki/do gooder bullsh!t. We all know its dirty, we all know that the innocent are the ones that lose in the end, we ALL KNOW that the smiling handshaking politicians call the shots....and we all know why. Why oh why is it the big bad bold Engle-lish that get it in the neck everytime?

I'm interested to hear your version of events. In my defence I didn't use sarcasm, just wit. A subtle differance. If I was being sarcastic...you'd know.

BullyBeef · 16-02-2010 12:14PM

IrishRover94 wrote: »

If an Irish person joins the brits army are they disloyal to the republic? i was just wonderin cos im intersted in joining them!

The way I read that is like you are asking if a Irish person in the here & now today joins!
Ask yourself the following :-Has the Republic of Ireland got any laws to forbid its citizens from joining other nations armed services ?
Are any or all the Irish that work in Britain being disloyal to the republic ?
Would all the people from the republic who constantly shop in Northern Ireland not be showing some form of disloyalty , in a time of deep biting recession & high unemployment .
Does/has the republic enjoyed many benefits of the EU & there by the nations that help provide trade/commerce & stability.
History does show a long line of Irishmen serving in or for other armed forces, obviously there are more angles to consider . In a way you or we are extremely lucky to have this modern technology at our fingertips. I suggest you make full use of it not only by reading this board but looking further a field .
Military subjects are imbedded with history, politics & proper gander there’s no getting away from that& there are two sides to every coin .
In the relatively free & peaceful world we live in that’s probably a good thing as we all tend to wear blinkers at times its human nature.
I do think that in today’s world no matter what views individuals hold ,its because men & women freely join up, consequently we are left at home to enjoy the relative freedom & peace like so few generations before have .Nations & politicians do & will make some wrong calls but the men & women in service are duty bound to follow orders ,be that in a barracks or on a frontline, that’s a professional army.

The freedom afforded means groups of all ideals or persuasions can operate like the Stop the War Coalition They say:-If you are a member of an organisation that is opposed to Bush and Blair's on-going "war on terror" and agree with our aims and objectives, we urge you to ask your organisation to consider affiliating to the Stop the War Coalition. Individuals are also welcome to join the Stop the War Coalition. Together, we can make our voice heard.

They sell all types of goods ,something for anyone
Stop the War campaigns afghan slippers ,mugs& ,keyrings or t shirts& books etc
Not forgetting the :-drop beats not bombs etc anti war songs
Another planned event was the,:-
Irish anti war movement demo at Shannon on valantines day with the planned vigil.

Then theres items like this
Thursday, 4 September 2008
More and more recruits from the Republic of Ireland are flocking across the border to sign on to fight
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/irish-recruits-flock-to-join-british-army-13960288.html

2008 Lure of combat draws Irish men and women to British army
Being able to sign up at 16 years is a key factor for Irish recruits to the British armed forces, writes Conor Lally
THE RISKS inherent in the British army's missions in Iraq and Afghanistan have done nothing to deter Irish men and women from joining the forces.
From Times Online
September 10, 2008
Irish recruits sign up for British Army in cross-border revolution
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article4724617.ece

Letter To Potential Recruits
Commanding
1st BATTALION
THE ROYAL IRISH REGIMENT
http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/12623.aspx
http://republic-of-ireland.britishlegion.org.uk/

Look deeply at your motives for joining any military whatever nation they are governed by & try to get asking questions from people who are or have served in these situations.

iceage · 16-02-2010 01:48PM

I think I owe barney an apology. My anti-Brit knee jerk reaction sometimes gets the better of me. If your issue is with joining the Military in general well then of course you are entitled to your opinion and you are to be applauded for that, stick to your guns I say so to speak but the facts and figure really speak for themselves.

Most of the guys that are interested in doing so have already made up they're minds and have the facts and info required. In my time here I have seen hardly any suggestion of assistance bar the obvious "Ring/Email the ******** (enter which ever suits, British, US, French etc) recruiting centres.

LD 50 · 16-02-2010 06:30PM

barney 20v wrote: »

Please do expand on that comment......

Local-womanizer wrote: »

In fairness to Poc a quick search will throw up numourus threads on this topic, all ending in insults and petty arguments.

And no,not disloyal,its only a job.

That should answer your question.

twinytwo · 17-02-2010 08:54AM

barney 20v wrote: »

Has this topic been discussed before? if so why don't you as a mod post a link to it? or are we to await enlightenment?

They are not disloyal to the Republic in my opinion, but they are immoral to join an armed forces involved in illegal wars which lead to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents.

Kindly fup off. The op asked about joinging the army not the legality of war

James Fitz · 17-02-2010 06:29PM

KILL Women.
KILL Children.
KILL Oldfolks.
Destroy cultures, languages, heritage, ways of life and the social fabric of innumerable civiliziations.
Subgegate, divide, conquer and exterminate.
Intern, interrogate and terrorise.
All for the Kings/Queens Shilling.
Be a REAL Man.
Be the BEST.
Be a British soilder!!!!!

BullyBeef · 17-02-2010 07:43PM

James Fitz wrote: »

KILL Women.
KILL Children.
KILL Oldfolks.
Destroy cultures, languages, heritage, ways of life and the social fabric of innumerable civiliziations.
Subgegate, divide, conquer and exterminate.
Intern, interrogate and terrorise.
All for the Kings/Queens Shilling.
Be a REAL Man.
Be the BEST.
Be a British soilder!!!!!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
SHOW NO FEAR to USE YOUR OWN MIND !!!
Become a professional if that’s what life you are searching for.

Manic Moran · 18-02-2010 05:31AM

Mr Fitz now has a month's mandatory absence to consider the content of his second ever post on military in light of the response to his first ever post on military.

NTM

ronaldoshaky · 01-03-2010 08:15PM

I think they should do more to encourage people to join our army, and instill pride in the Irish military

piby · 01-03-2010 11:17PM

ronaldoshaky wrote: »

I think they should do more to encourage people to join our army, and instill pride in the Irish military

I don't really think that they need to encourage people to join up. As was pointed out to you in another thread they have more than enough applicants for all their positions. Somebody might correct me on this but afaik 1000-1500 people apply for only 30 cadetships offered each year so we're hardly struggling to attract people!!

OS119 · 02-03-2010 08:12AM

that doesn't mean that the selected cadets are the top 30 of the top 1500 though does it - it means that the selected cadets are the top 30 of an utterly random 1500...

the blindingly obvious point is that in a country of 4.5 million, one with a relatively 'young heavy' population and a culture of being prepared to go a long way for a decent job, a damn sight more than 1500 people should be applying for a well paid, secure job that has travel and challenges that few other jobs could offer.

the equally obvious reasons for that are that either they don't really 'notice' the DF and therefore don't even think about applying, or that they do notice the DF, and are put off applying - or even seriously considering applying - by the perception that the public and the media has of the DF and the work it does.

airvan · 02-03-2010 12:56PM

the selected cadets are the top 30 of an utterly random 1500...

To be fair OS119, I doubt if all of the 1500 are utterly random. Certainly a fair proportion would be speculative applications. But several hundred probably would be very interested and good candidates. It would be interesting to know the numbers who get through to the second interview and are then eliminated. They may very well have been quite suitable. In other countries they would have been selected.

In other bigger countries with larger militaries, if you meet the criteria you're in. In Ireland it's like winning a talent competition. I applied for a cadetship in the Air Corps. I was very keen on the Air Corps as a career. But the odds were against me. I firmly believe that if I was British or American or from another European country. I would have completed a very successful career in the military. But I was born here and it was not to be.

It's very difficult to become a military officer in this country. Not surprising then that many with an interest in becoming an officer apply to the British forces. It's not just tradition. It's a practical neccessity if you want a military career and are shut out of the Irish army. The same is true of recruits as well.

I would also doubt that those who join the British military do so out of disrespect for the Irish army. Many would probably prefer the Irish army but cannot get in for whatever reason. Others probably recognise the limitations of the Irish army as a career. Quite simply there aren't the opportunities, the equipment, the career prospects, the travel and frankly the chance to see action that you will get elsewhere.

However I do think the public at large has little respect for the Irish defence forces. Haven't we all heard the jokes about the Navy or the Air Corps? That won't change much.

jeawan · 02-03-2010 01:42PM

airvan wrote: »

To be fair OS119, I doubt if all of the 1500 are utterly random. Certainly a fair proportion would be speculative applications. But several hundred probably would be very interested and good candidates. It would be interesting to know the numbers who get through to the second interview and are then eliminated. They may very well have been quite suitable. In other countries they would have been selected.

In other bigger countries with larger militaries, if you meet the criteria you're in. In Ireland it's like winning a talent competition. I applied for a cadetship in the Air Corps. I was very keen on the Air Corps as a career. But the odds were against me. I firmly believe that if I was British or American or from another European country. I would have completed a very successful career in the military. But I was born here and it was not to be.

It's very difficult to become a military officer in this country. Not surprising then that many with an interest in becoming an officer apply to the British forces. It's not just tradition. It's a practical neccessity if you want a military career and are shut out of the Irish army. The same is true of recruits as well.

I would also doubt that those who join the British military do so out of disrespect for the Irish army. Many would probably prefer the Irish army but cannot get in for whatever reason. Others probably recognise the limitations of the Irish army as a career. Quite simply there aren't the opportunities, the equipment, the career prospects, the travel and frankly the chance to see action that you will get elsewhere.

However I do think the public at large has little respect for the Irish defence forces. Haven't we all heard the jokes about the Navy or the Air Corps? That won't change much.

Completely agree the Irish defence forces is hard to get into any other Military you join up and you are in .

Too the OP on this thread if you interested in joining the British army join em or talk to one of there recruiters about it . 15% or more of the UK forces is Irish now anyway i wouldn't worry about all the disloyal crap if you don't do something you want to do you probably regret it i did when i listened to my parents a few years back when i was joining the British Army i ended up working in Ireland and always regret not doing it.

Tarzan007 · 04-03-2010 06:23PM

jeawan wrote: »

Completely agree the Irish defence forces is hard to get into any other Military you join up and you are in .

Too the OP on this thread if you interested in joining the British army join em or talk to one of there recruiters about it . 15% or more of the UK forces is Irish now anyway i wouldn't worry about all the disloyal crap if you don't do something you want to do you probably regret it i did when i listened to my parents a few years back when i was joining the British Army i ended up working in Ireland and always regret not doing it.

" 15% or more of the UK forces is Irish now " I'm surprised you did not say it's a 150%

I'd say at most it's 1.5% and the vast majority of them are Protestants from the north.

And fellows born and bred in the UK with one Irish parent/a Granny/ Great Granny / Great Great Granny do not count as Irish - unless they want to play soccer for the Republic or something

Bigdeadlydave · 04-03-2010 08:15PM

Well personally I wouldn't join, Id rather, if I was so inclined, join the US army instead. Is it disloyal to Ireland? To a certain degree it is, it certainly was back in the day, being part of a group responsible for Bloody Sunday...

p1akuw47h5r3it · 07-03-2010 11:14PM

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

Well personally I wouldn't join, Id rather, if I was so inclined, join the US army instead. Is it disloyal to Ireland? To a certain degree it is, it certainly was back in the day, being part of a group responsible for Bloody Sunday...

To do that u need a green card or some form of citizenship. So it is a lot easier to join the BA.

Royal26 · 09-03-2010 03:28PM

Off topic here,

Has anyone gone on a Familirisation visit for PO's with the Royal Signals in Dorset?
Im going myself in the summer and would like to hear what other people thought who went?

Dr.Sanchez · 20-03-2010 10:19PM

I'm actually in the process of joining the Royal Irish Regiment, have to travel up to fermanagh next week for the BARB test. I dont see it as disloyal at all, then again I'm not patriotic in any way. I see it as an adventure and it beats sitting on my hole all day long, which is my current situation.

Zambia · 21-03-2010 12:35PM

Oh my mate will just love you with that attitude... "Beats sitting on my hole all day" what you have just conveyed to me is you dont care.

Dr.Sanchez · 21-03-2010 12:43PM

Zambia232 wrote: »

Oh my mate will just love you with that attitude... "Beats sitting on my hole all day" what you have just conveyed to me is you dont care.

Care to elaborate on that one?

Hobby Horse · 21-03-2010 08:33PM

00Blaine00 wrote: »

I'm actually in the process of joining the Royal Irish Regiment, have to travel up to fermanagh next week for the BARB test. I dont see it as disloyal at all, then again I'm not patriotic in any way. I see it as an adventure and it beats sitting on my hole all day long, which is my current situation.

You shouldn't feel you have to join the Infantry, a lot of Irish people go to the careers office with the Irish Regiments on their mind. As some of the staff in the careers office will be from the Local Regiment they don't try and discourage that.

You should at the very least go through every trade in the army before making your decision, and you can change at anytime in the process up untill taking the oath...

Also take everything the Careers office say with a grain of salt.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 21-03-2010 08:37PM

Zambia232 wrote: »

Oh my mate will just love you with that attitude... "Beats sitting on my hole all day" what you have just conveyed to me is you dont care.

If he "didn't care" why wud he join the BA??!!

Dr.Sanchez · 21-03-2010 09:17PM

Hobby Horse wrote: »

You shouldn't feel you have to join the Infantry, a lot of Irish people go to the careers office with the Irish Regiments on their mind. As some of the staff in the careers office will be from the Local Regiment they don't try and discourage that.

You should at the very least go through every trade in the army before making your decision, and you can change at anytime in the process up untill taking the oath...

Also take everything the Careers office say with a grain of salt.

Oh yeah, agree with you there! On the application form they ask you to list three different areas/trades you have an interest in, so I'll definitely question them some more on that.

I know a guy who is just finishing up training at the moment. When he was in the careers office they were keen to promote a career in Artillery but he already had his mind set on Infantry.

Irishmen/women in the British Armed Forces

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