Total speculation on flash sideways

seithon · 25-02-2010 11:40PM #1

My personal thought on this..
What if their not flash sideways ?
What if they are infact what happens to the characters after the series is over, IE whoever becomes the new keeper of the island resets the time lines to send the characters back to their lives and along the way does small tweaks to make everyone's lives better in some small way. IE locke and his dad etc

Just a random thought.. it'd be a neat way to tie it together.

Stinjy · 26-02-2010 12:08AM

Can I ask like who is Locke .. I mean in one scene we see

Locke dead on the beach and in the next hes talking to Ben and I don't get it I thought Jacob had taken over his body but then I dunno anyone know whats going on anymore?

Sad Professor · 26-02-2010 12:15AM

seithon wrote:

My personal thought on this..
What if their not flash sideways ?
What if they are infact what happens to the characters after the series is over, IE whoever becomes the new keeper of the island resets the time lines to send the characters back to their lives and along the way does small tweaks to make everyone's lives better in some small way. IE locke and his dad etc

Just a random thought.. it'd be a neat way to tie it together.

I dunno. I think they are exactly what they appear to be. A product of Jack's attempt to change time last season. I really don't see the point in making them the result of something else. Last season's time travel needed to have a consequence. And I think the parallel timeline is it.

This doesn't necessarily invalidate your idea though. As I've speculated elsewhere, the original timeline may be destroyed in the end, leaving just the sideways timeline. All the characters would remember of course.

Stinjy wrote:

Can I ask like who is Locke .. I mean in one scene we see Spoiler: Locke dead on the beach and in the next hes talking to Ben and I don't get it I thought Jacob had taken over his body but then I dunno anyone know whats going on anymore?

"Locke" (or UnLocke as I call him) is actually the smoke monster. Locke never came back to life as was implied last season. He was Smokey all along. Smokey is also the Man in Black who we saw speaking to Jacob as the Black Rock arrived in a flashback last season. Smokey doesn't need a body to take the form of someone. Although the person he's imitating may need to be dead - but this isn't really clear yet.

As far as we know, Jacob has never taken over anyone or appeared in the form of anyone else.

NukaCola · 26-02-2010 07:32AM

seithon wrote: »

My personal thought on this..
What if their not flash sideways ?
What if they are infact what happens to the characters after the series is over, IE whoever becomes the new keeper of the island resets the time lines to send the characters back to their lives and along the way does small tweaks to make everyone's lives better in some small way. IE locke and his dad etc

Just a random thought.. it'd be a neat way to tie it together.

How is Kates life better though? Shes still on the run....i hate this idea TBH

deman · 26-02-2010 07:43AM

Stinjy wrote: »

Can I ask like who is Locke .. I mean in one scene we see
Locke dead on the beach and in the next hes talking to Ben and I don't get it I thought Jacob had taken over his body but then I dunno anyone know whats going on anymore?

Why is this a spoiler???

TonyD79 · 26-02-2010 11:32AM

Who is Locke? I hate the way people say the show is too confusing when something like this was cleary explained at the start of the season after it was revealed at the end of last season.

me-skywalker · 26-02-2010 03:46PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

As far as we know, Jacob has never taken over anyone or appeared in the form of anyone else.

Except as a giant bird ;-)...

astrofool · 26-02-2010 04:00PM

Aren't the flash sideways happening 3 years in the past Vs. whats currently happening on island? I wonder how they'll sync that up.

donaghs · 26-02-2010 04:09PM

Still watching as the other-half is persisting with it.

"but then I dunno anyone know whats going on anymore?"

I like to think of it as Flogging a Dead Horse.

blue_steel · 27-02-2010 03:13PM

What if they are infact what happens to the characters after the series is over, IE whoever becomes the new keeper of the island resets the time lines to send the characters back to their lives and along the way does small tweaks to make everyone's lives better in some small way. IE locke and his dad etc

I was thinking something similar myself. The flashsideways characters are the same people as the island characters, this is why the writers are adament that its not an alternate timeline. At the end of the season something will be achieved that allows the losties to leave the island and return to the point in time just before the crash (minus their memories of the island) where season 6 began.
This "achievement" will probably be the final victory of good over evil (Jacob over MIB) and it will result in the destruction and sinking of the island.

sapper · 27-02-2010 08:48PM

I think the key to the flashsidewayses is the first scene with Jacob and "Esau" on the beach....I'm paraphrasing but wasn't it "I'll find my loophole" and "it always ends the same"

Those two seemed to be pretty comfortable with the idea of multiple timelines IMO

Also the fact that (as it has now been signposted in a major way) the characters lives have changed as a result of being-or not being- on the island probably means that the two narratives will further bleed into each other.

I think the major reveal of the first half of the series will be the fact that the flashsideways are in fact part of the main narrative

Axwell · 27-02-2010 11:53PM

Its possible the flash sideways are actually us getting the end of the series in advance so to speak. As the weeks go on we see a flash sideways for each of the characters showing their lives as if the plane never crashed, however when watching them we can see their paths are still intertwined and they meet each other etc.
I think a major indication of this has been with Jack when he goes to the bathroom on the plane he finds blood on his neck, later on he finds the scars of an appendix operation and he doesnt remember ever getting his appendix out till his mother tells him it was when he was a kid, but hes still vague on it.
I think the series will possibly end with an event where Desmond returns to the island and does something which involves Jacks help to end the loop which Mib and Jacob spoke of. Jacob and MiB discuss how it always ends out the same, but it only ends once. I think when it ends properly it will involve something they do which resets time and the events that occured, destroying the island and sinking it to the bottom of the ocean. As a result Jack ends up as we have seen him on the plane before it crashes along with everyone else, he speaks to Desmond on the plane but then Desmond vanishes and the plane lands. I think Desmond disappearing was a hint that Desmond is involved in setting things right. He was never originally on the plane so its odd he appears in the flash sideways and then vanishes again before it crashes as if he shouldnt really be there.

Of course this is just random thoughts and I could change my mind in a week or two when more is revealed but I think there is some major importance i.e. its the ending of the series showing how everyone went on after the events were reset finally and that it is more than just an alternate timeline showing "what if".

the_monkey · 28-02-2010 03:45PM

Cheers for reminding me of that giant bird .... I wonder will this be explained ??

It might not be, I can imagine a lot of loose ends at the end which will be
tackled in the spin offs ....

Penn · 28-02-2010 09:50PM

the_monkey wrote: »

Cheers for reminding me of that giant bird .... I wonder will this be explained ??

It might not be, I can imagine a lot of loose ends at the end which will be
tackled in the spin offs ....

Spin offs?

TonyD79 · 28-02-2010 10:20PM

Which episode was the giant bird from???

Sad Professor · 28-02-2010 11:11PM

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Spin offs?

+1

No spinoffs please. And certainly no answers being held over for them.

TonyD79 wrote: »

Which episode was the giant bird from???

Season 1 finale. I think it was just the writers taking the piss tbh.

Bob Z · 01-03-2010 04:33AM

I think the flashsideways are an illusion or dream that they are allexperiencing but more and more reminders of the island will slip through and eventually will remember/realise they are still on the island

FredBloggs · 01-03-2010 10:22AM

astrofool wrote: »

Aren't the flash sideways happening 3 years in the past Vs. whats currently happening on island? I wonder how they'll sync that up.

good point

me-skywalker · 01-03-2010 06:48PM

Yea noway will they keep answers for spin-offs since in any spin off Carlton and Lindelof wont be working on... They more I think of Lindelog the more he really annoys me. He comes across as a prentitious lecturer type.

the_monkey · 01-03-2010 11:06PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

+1

No spinoffs please. And certainly no answers being held over for them.

Season 1 finale. I think it was just the writers taking the piss tbh.

I read an article somewhere saying that ABC are gonna milk Lost ...
as its such a goldmine for them ... fair enough ... its like a Star Trek franchise , new seasons can be made with different characters ... different times etc...

opinion guy · 04-03-2010 01:53AM

blue_steel wrote: »

This "achievement" will probably be the final victory of good over evil (Jacob over MIB) and it will result in the destruction and sinking of the island.

Hmmm. Why is everyone assuming the Jacob is good and MIB is evil ? I'm not assuming that at all. If anything they both seem kinda evil. MIB with the penchant for killing, but Jacob is a manipulator and clearly his interference in peoples lives has made them very unhappy. It wouldn't surprise me if in the end MIB turns out to be less evil.

jimbling · 04-03-2010 11:39AM

the_monkey wrote: »

I read an article somewhere saying that ABC are gonna milk Lost ...
as its such a goldmine for them ... fair enough ... its like a Star Trek franchise , new seasons can be made with different characters ... different times etc...

Really, I didn't think Lost was that big a money earner anymore.

opinion guy wrote: »

Hmmm. Why is everyone assuming the Jacob is good and MIB is evil ? I'm not assuming that at all. If anything they both seem kinda evil. MIB with the penchant for killing, but Jacob is a manipulator and clearly his interference in peoples lives has made them very unhappy. It wouldn't surprise me if in the end MIB turns out to be less evil.

eh, what? God never manipulated and interfered in peoples lives? Almost all religions have stories of god fcking with peoples lives for his own gain.

The methods that MIB uses Vs the methods that Jacob uses are completely different and it couldn't be more obvious as to who is evil and who is good.

Penn · 04-03-2010 11:44AM

Sad Professor wrote: »

Season 1 finale. I think it was just the writers taking the piss tbh.

I thought it was the Season 2 finale? If I remember correctly, thats when Michael started firing his gun but discovered it wasn't loaded

Sad Professor · 04-03-2010 11:46AM

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I thought it was the Season 2 finale? If I remember correctly, thats when Michael started firing his gun but discovered it wasn't loaded

Yeah, you're right. Or at least it was the season 2 finale that I was thinking of. But according to Lostpedia it appeared in both. I don't remember the first appearance though.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hurley_bird

opinion guy · 04-03-2010 11:51AM

jimbling wrote: »

Really, I didn't think Lost was that big a money earner anymore.

eh, what? God never manipulated and interfered in peoples lives? Almost all religions have stories of god fcking with peoples lives for his own gain.

The methods that MIB uses Vs the methods that Jacob uses are completely different and it couldn't be more obvious as to who is evil and who is good.

Obvious ? Hmmm for what its worth I think that going to be one of the main points of the show - sometimes the manipulator is just as evil as the violent guy

Penn · 04-03-2010 11:53AM

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, you're right. Or at least it was the season 2 finale that I was thinking of. But according to Lostpedia it appeared in both. I don't remember the first appearance though.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hurley_bird

Just checked it there myself after I posted and noticed the same thing. I always thought the Season 2 finale was it's only appearance, but after reading that, I do kinda remember Hurley seeing it in the Season 1 finale. I guess since it didn't do anything I just didn't pay too much attention to it

podgemonster · 04-03-2010 12:35PM

Maybe the flashsideways is what occurs after good defears evil or vice versa!
The gods allow Juliet to detonate the bomb! Jack is happy with his son, accepts his fathers is dead, he might even meet some-one in a later flash!
Hurley is now extremely lucky and has many sucessful, meteorite free businesses.
Lockes accepts his disability, lives happily with Helen
Claire has Aaron and the security of Christian's money (i am guessing)
Boone and Shannon....stay alive
Kate and Sawyer hook up

but maybe theres a touch of evil to thes flashes like wishes granted by the devil...(Bedazzled) that while initially look great slowly the turn (or maybe only turn on the characters that accept Esau offer)
Like in Sayids case

Sayid wanting Nadia but shes married to his brother and has kids and now hes killed three men and may have to go on the run again or put Nadia in danger and never truly get what he wants

One thing i truly believe is Desmond is key. As Eloise Hawking said to him 'the island isn't finished wth you yet desmond'

purple_hatstand · 04-03-2010 02:26PM

I think the “flash-sideways” events are the consequences for each character of which side they take in the on-island showdown between Jacob and MiB.

For example, in ep5 (The Lighthouse), we saw Jack’s conversion by Jacob on-island and part of his consequence in the flash-sideways. By which I mean; Jack’s combative temperament (manifested throughout LOST in a tendency towards rash decision-making, seizing control of situations beyond his ability to solve and depressive self-destruction when things don’t go his way) is largely a result of the damaged relationship he had with his father and the guilt he subsequently feels. The consequence for Jack of being aligned with Jacob is a chance to assuage some of these father/son issues through his relationship with his own son.

In ep6 (Sundown),

Sayid’s transformation was even more definitive. So were his motives and, again, so were his consequences. The two great influences on him have been his love for Nadia and his desire to put his experiences in The Republican Guard (and the associated violent streak) behind him. In bringing Sayid to the island, Jacob caused the death of Nadia and at every turn (whether on-island or off) his violent tendencies have been used against him and have been used to define him. After all Dogen’s subterfuge and disingenuousness, MiB offers him a way to be with Nadia again and the ‘flip’ is predictable. The consequences are harsh, though. Nadia has a family with his brother and within minutes of being back, he is again thrown into a set of circumstances he can only extricate himself from by killing some guys.

I’m not sure how this will play out for all the other characters. Dogen’s story from ep6 seemed to contradict his appearance in Jack’s flash-sideways (ep5) and then he was killed anyway so…; and Kate hasn’t taken a side in the on-island power-struggle, so her consequence has yet to be defined (possibly why ep3 is the season’s weak-point so far).

Also, I still don't think the Jacob v MiB conflict/endgame is as simple as good v evil. Although it is possible that Jacob understands better than MiB what the consequences will be of upsetting the balance.

Any thoughts?

opinion guy · 04-03-2010 02:46PM

jimbling wrote: »

Really, I didn't think Lost was that big a money earner anymore.

eh, what? God never manipulated and interfered in peoples lives? Almost all religions have stories of god fcking with peoples lives for his own gain.

The methods that MIB uses Vs the methods that Jacob uses are completely different and it couldn't be more obvious as to who is evil and who is good.

The more I tihnk about this the more I think its defintitely not good vs evil and more a question of indirect action vs direct action.....to whatever goal - evil or not. For this is the difference between Jacob and MIB. Jacob is a subtle manipulator, MIB is nothing if not about the direct action. Good and evil doesn't enter into it - its all just a tool to obtain their objectives - whatever they may be.

You can argue MIB kills people, but actually jacbo seems to cause deaths also - he just doens't do it directly and on top of that he cause geat pain in the lives of his pawns - which MIB does not do. If anything - Jacob is more along the lines of the image of the evil as a subtle manipulator where as MIB seems more like the angel of death or soemthing as he seems to do a certain amount of judging of his victims.

jimbling · 04-03-2010 04:53PM

opinion guy wrote: »

The more I tihnk about this the more I think its defintitely not good vs evil and more a question of indirect action vs direct action.....to whatever goal - evil or not. For this is the difference between Jacob and MIB. Jacob is a subtle manipulator, MIB is nothing if not about the direct action. Good and evil doesn't enter into it - its all just a tool to obtain their objectives - whatever they may be.

You can argue MIB kills people, but actually jacbo seems to cause deaths also - he just doens't do it directly and on top of that he cause geat pain in the lives of his pawns - which MIB does not do. If anything - Jacob is more along the lines of the image of the evil as a subtle manipulator where as MIB seems more like the angel of death or soemthing as he seems to do a certain amount of judging of his victims.

I had a list of reasons written out, but gave up 3/4qtrs the way through. To be honest, if you can't see why Flocke is bad and Jacob is good, I doubt I'll be able to convince you.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree

opinion guy · 04-03-2010 06:36PM

jimbling wrote: »

I had a list of reasons written out, but gave up 3/4qtrs the way through. To be honest, if you can't see why Flocke is bad and Jacob is good, I doubt I'll be able to convince you.

So, we'll have to agree to disagree

And if you can't see what I'm saying - same.
So yes I agree to disagree

Liber8or · 08-03-2010 09:23PM

I reckon the Flash-sideways are an insight into the lives of those on Oceanic 815 if they had NOT been influenced by Jacob.
The season finale to season 5 (iirc), showed instances where Jacob touched people (literally) which sent them on a course towards the island - also supported by MiB which was revealed in the S6E3 with Sawyer.
These Flash-sideways show us what would have happened if Jacob did not interfere, it has nothing to do with the fact they detonated a Hydrogen bomb over the magnetic pocket.

I am more interested in the fact that Kate's name was not on the cave wall. What does that mean?

Psychedelic · 08-03-2010 09:32PM

Liber8or wrote: »

I am more interested in the fact that Kate's name was not on the cave wall. What does that mean?

It might not mean anything, we just didn't see her name on the wall, doesn't mean her name wasn't there. Her name was on the compass mirror thing though, so she must still be a candidate, which is why fake Locke might not be able to kill her now.

purple_hatstand · 12-03-2010 02:57PM

Each name has a corresponding number. The six candidates are the ones whose numbers are 'the numbers'.

4 - Locke
8 - Reyes
15 - Ford
16 - Jarrah
23 - Shephard
42 - Kwon

Of these, Locke is dead and there is some debate as to whether "Kwon" refers to Jin or Sun. Kate's number (51) is not one of 'the numbers' but we're still not sure if this means she definitely isn't a candidate (apologies for the double-negative!)

I reckon there are some red herrings here. The "Kwon" debate seems irrelevant because the only remaining purpose for the two characters' continued existence on the show is their reunion. And I expect Kate to remain neutral in the Jacob v MiB conflict and for her destiny to be connected with that of Aaron. Sayid has gone to the dark side which would appear to eliminate him as a candidate leaving Jack, Hurley & Sawyer.

speedboatchase · 12-03-2010 03:43PM

Ok so it's pretty obvious we're heading towards some kind of Jacob crew Vs Unlocke crew showdown towards the end of the series. I agree that the flash-sideways are all a way of showing us how they characters ended up after this series has ended. I believe that Jacob's team will win out in some form and everyone that has been allied with him now will live happily ever after (Jack, Ben) and those who aren't, wont (Kate, Sayid). Obviously there's still a q of how Claire will have a happy ending or not or if she will be dealt with again in any kind of flash-sideways

markie24dublin · 12-03-2010 05:43PM

I'm still have no idea what is goin on.. i thought this season will be more clear, but so far its only more confusing! :S

ToTheSea: · 12-03-2010 06:39PM

Could it possible that Kwon refers to both Jin and Sun. Why do we all assume it could only be one of them? They were both touched and we were never told two people couldn't do jacobs job.
OR
Maybe jin becomes like MIB and sun like jacob because of what groups they are with now in the island.
Probably wont happen though, both characters are too boring. Simple speculation however.

purple_hatstand · 13-03-2010 05:52PM

speedboatchase wrote: »

Ok so it's pretty obvious we're heading towards some kind of Jacob crew Vs Unlocke crew showdown towards the end of the series. I agree that the flash-sideways are all a way of showing us how they characters ended up after this series has ended. I believe that Jacob's team will win out in some form and everyone that has been allied with him now will live happily ever after (Jack, Ben) and those who aren't, wont (Kate, Sayid). Obviously there's still a q of how Claire will have a happy ending or not or if she will be dealt with again in any kind of flash-sideways

Do you think they are flash-forwards? I thought the common consensus was that the stories are happening simultaneously?

I don't think Kate is 'with' MiB's crew. She hasn't been 'infected' or 'converted' in the way that Sayid was; she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and I expect she might yet prove to a stone in MiB's shoe.

me-skywalker · 14-03-2010 07:46PM

if they are looking for candidates to repalce themselves... who will become the new richard? hurley??

ToasterSparks · 20-03-2010 08:00PM

What if there are two timelines set in stone all the time? What I mean is, what if Jacob chooses candidates from one timeline and brings them to the island, in order to influence their lives in the second timeline?

For example, it's clear that Jack and Hurley have benefited in the ALT timeline by aligning with Jacob in some sense in the current timeline. Similarly, Sayid has been influenced by Jacob's nemesis MiB and as a result has not benefited or improved his ALT timeline life. Perhaps MiB is trying to prevent Jacob from influencing the ALT timeline for some reason.

I dunno, I'm sure this is all speculative nonsense. What if Jacob is trying to change the ALT timeline sufficiently enough to achieve some end goal? It only ends once, everything before that is just progress? He doesn't seem overly bothered about manipulating people on the island, maybe because he's only interestied in affecting the ALT timeline?

Mr.Nice Guy · 20-03-2010 08:49PM

Toaster Sparks wrote:

For example, it's clear that Jack and Hurley have benefited in the ALT timeline by aligning with Jacob in some sense in the current timeline. Similarly, Sayid has been influenced by Jacob's nemesis MiB and as a result has not benefited or improved his ALT timeline life. Perhaps MiB is trying to prevent Jacob from influencing the ALT timeline for some reason.

What makes you say this? I'm not sure there is a connection in that way as Claire is also under MIB's influence yet she seems to be doing pretty well for herself in the ALT timeline.

I don't think the Losties in the ALT timeline are the same as those in the original timeline. I think they are a different world and that the candidate is probably someone who can have an identity in multiple worlds. Alternate Jack not knowing certain facts and the cuts on his neck lead me to believe he is a potential Jacob replacement. I also think Desmond, Walt and possibly Aaron could fit the mould too.

Total speculation on flash sideways

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