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Special needs kid at funeral

124

Comments

  • #92
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    It seems like the PC brigade are up in arms on this. This is a respect issue not about discriminating against special needs.
    The mother should have had more consideration and Respect for the immediate family and agreed to the request.

    Having said that, while the OP was correct to ask the Mother and child to be quite, it is perhaps also right that after the funeral, that the OP apologize if any offense was caused. Which don't they intended to offend


  • #93
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I have a special needs child and if this is what I face in the future sure I may as well lock me and my child into the house and not go outside the door in case my child is making too much noise or annoying anyone

    Honestly I think lots of the people replying here have no idea what life is like with a child/adult with special needs. You end up socially isolated because of people like the OP making comments. If someone walked up to me in a church or elsewhere and asked for me to go outside, well all I will say is god help them..........They would most certainly get a piece of my mind.

    Where possible I would not bring my child to a situation like that but there are not many people who can safely mind a child/adult with special needs. And often u wont have many people offering to help either.

    This thread are the exact reasons why people who are full time carers end up totally isolated.


  • #94
    miss no stars
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    isthiswhatsahead wrote: »
    I have a special needs child and if this is what I face in the future sure I may as well lock me and my child into the house and not go outside the door in case my child is making too much noise or annoying anyone

    Honestly I think lots of the people replying here have no idea what life is like with a child/adult with special needs. You end up socially isolated because of people like the OP making comments. If someone walked up to me in a church or elsewhere and asked for me to go outside, well all I will say is god help them..........They would most certainly get a piece of my mind.

    Where possible I would not bring my child to a situation like that but there are not many people who can safely mind a child/adult with special needs. And often u wont have many people offering to help either.

    This thread are the exact reasons why people who are full time carers end up totally isolated.

    Yeah, but if your child was making so much noise at a funeral, of all events, would you not just go to the back? Seriously, would you not have the decency to, of your own accord, just move out of deference to the grief of the chief mourners?

    It doesn't make a difference if the child is special needs or not at that age - they all make noise - it's a child making a distracting amount of noise and any parent, whether their child is special needs or not, should move to the back or bring the child out for a breather. Nobody is saying the parent shouldn't be there, I don't think the child should be prevented from attending either, but why should the chief mourners be prevented from hearing the mass? All that was required was to move further back to try and lessen the impact. It's not ALL about the one child.

    Ya know, and I hate to say this, there is a limit to the amount as to which special needs people CAN be integrated by virtue of the fact that they are special needs. Can the child attend the funeral? Sure. Sit in the fourth row? Well, if the child can't (and nobody is suggesting that they be made to) be quiet then honestly, no. Other people have rights and needs. Special needs shouldn't mean "the only person with rights".


  • #95
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    miss no stars wrote: »
    Yeah, but if your child was making so much noise at a funeral, of all events, would you not just go to the back? Seriously, would you not have the decency to, of your own accord, just move out of deference to the grief of the chief mourners?

    It doesn't make a difference if the child is special needs or not at that age - they all make noise - it's a child making a distracting amount of noise and any parent, whether their child is special needs or not, should move to the back or bring the child out for a breather. Nobody is saying the parent shouldn't be there, I don't think the child should be prevented from attending either, but why should the chief mourners be prevented from hearing the mass? All that was required was to move further back to try and lessen the impact. It's not ALL about the one child.

    Ya know, and I hate to say this, there is a limit to the amount as to which special needs people CAN be integrated by virtue of the fact that they are special needs. Can the child attend the funeral? Sure. Sit in the fourth row? Well, if the child can't (and nobody is suggesting that they be made to) be quiet then honestly, no. Other people have rights and needs. Special needs shouldn't mean "the only person with rights".

    Honestly trying being the mother or father of a child with special needs for a day.

    Sure I tell you what maybe we should all lock our special needs kids in a cage for the day when funerals/birthdays/weddings are on. You are very very naive. Yes I would have moved to the back of the church but not everyone will and if I choose not to for whatever reason and someone came up and asked me to move, there would be quite a scene. ....... and if you dont know the needs of the child in question its very hard to say just move somewhere else.

    Its very very obvious that a lot of the replies on this thread are from people who have no experence whatso ever of what life is like with a special needs child. It is these ignorant attitudes that cause carers to be totally isolated from society. And for all you people who have replied and intend to have children, any one of you could end up caring for a special needs person and facing some of the attitudes on here.


  • #96
    amz5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭amz5


    ireckon wrote: »
    why is it fair for one child to upset sand disrupt several people? Would it not have been basic sense and manners for the mother to take her child outside until the ceremony had ended?

    I was in a restaurant the other day and a family with a special needs woman were there. When this woman was paid attention to and included in their conversation she was fine. However when they would not pay attention to her she would grunt at the top of her voice. At one point this got so loud we could barely here and just wanted to leave. What I could not understand though was why the family were ignoring this poor woman - she was getting louder and louder and more distressed? They went from talking to her to ignoring her and did not seem to give a damn about the consequences. Why bring her to a restaurant with them to ignore her and let her get upset? The other patrons of the restaurant had paid to be there only to not be able to hear a thing because this family felt it was okay to ignore this woman and allow her to disrupt everyone else.

    So I suppose children with special needs shouldn't be in mainstream schools incase they disrupt the other childrens' learning? People with special needs shouldn't be allowed out in public in case they upset your happy trouble-free life?

    My brother has autism and over the years we've come across bigots on several occasions. I use the word bigot because they've expressed such discrimination towards a vulnerable member of society that it could be considered hatred. I couldn't use the word prejudice in relation to some of the comments on this thread as there is a highly emotive, action-orientated movement against people with special needs being vocalised here.

    My parents didn't bring my brother to weddings/funerals etc over the years, but I always felt that this was terribly unfair on them. One of them would attend special occasions if they could. People with children with special needs don't "choose" not to have a babysitter - they CAN'T find someone that will be able to mind them. Respite care is very limited. People can't choose to leave their child/teenager at home. Even family turn a blind eye to situations like that in MOST cases.

    When I was young we rarely went to retaurants and never went on holidays or abroad because of peoples attitudes towards my brother (who like the child in the opening post makes grunting noises). I thought things had moved on from that. Clearly I was very much misguided. Some people are as thick as ever.

    Over the years a priest has verbally abused my father, as he thought my father must be doing something to my brother for him to be in distress walking in a public area. Meanwhile my brother bit my father as he did not like the disruption to his walk. Who was wrong? One of the traits of autism is that children need routine, his routine was broken and he lashed out. However, the priest couldn't accept that what my father was saying was true and interrogated him for about 5 minutes while my brother bit him in several places up his arm, and he was left with scars. This is not bad behaviour.

    A neighbour who had been informed of my brother's condition asked her boyfriend to approach him because she was not happy with the amount of time he spent in the garden as she felt he was watching her. My brother was a teenager and enjoyed spending time on his swing. It was one of the only things that he could enjoy, as he can't read, doesn't understand TV, and is completely dependent on my parents as regards going places. Her boyfriend came over to tell him he was going to beat the **** out of him unless he stopped looking at his girlfriend. Luckily my father came out of the house to address the situation, as my brother hadn't a clue what he was saying. Once again, I thought this type of person had been left in the 90s.

    The Gardai called at our house about my brother's grunting as they were doing a standard walk around our area and demanded to know what was going on. Once again, it took them quite some time to accept that my brother had special needs, as he looks like everybody else.

    Teenagers have circled my dad walking with my brother calling them gay, and my dad a paedophile as my dad had to hold my brothers hand on walks (when he was a teenager) as he had no understanding of roads.

    I could name several other incidences.

    My parents have been martyrs over the years. Special needs provision in this country is severely underfunded. In fact, it was a disgrace in the good times, so I don't know what it's going to be like for the next few years. The parents of these children have to deal with these noises and distubances every day, every week, every year. Everyone has a right to grieve. A child grunting is not the same as a crying baby. I can't believe that there are people who are so ignorant that they would equate the two. People should not have to hide their children with special needs. I hope nobody here who criticised these people ever have a child with special needs.

    I completely disagree with the OP, but this comment made about the people in a restaurant is beyond comprehension. Think about someone else for a change. It was thinking like yours that caused some of the worst attrocities in human history.


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  • #97
    Nuggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Nuggles


    I always found funerals to be an inclusive event in Irish community. Something that brings families together. All members of a family.

    I don't think the OP has a right to exclude ANYONE from a funeral. It might have meant a lot to the mother to have her child there with her. And I don't think it's fair that she should have been denied the right to be there by anyone. Even if her son's presence was a nuisance to some people.

    My grandmother died last year. And her very elderly sister wanted to attend, despite advice not to due to her frailty. But we didn't deny her that. We went out of our way to make sure she could attend, and she interrupted the wake at one point because she felt ill. But not one person complained. Because we were all glad that she could be included.

    I think the OP needs to see the big picture here, and realise that a funeral, isn't about a perfectly choreographed ceremony, it's about saying goodbye and mourning a loss. And that's what they should have focused on instead of a person making some noise in the church.


  • #98
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    amz5 wrote: »
    So I suppose children with special needs shouldn't be in mainstream schools incase they disrupt the other childrens' learning? People with special needs shouldn't be allowed out in public in case they upset your happy trouble-free life?

    My brother has autism and over the years we've come across bigots on several occasions. I use the word bigot because they've expressed such discrimination towards a vulnerable member of society that it could be considered hatred. I couldn't use the word prejudice in relation to some of the comments on this thread as there is a highly emotive, action-orientated movement against people with special needs being vocalised here.

    My parents didn't bring my brother to weddings/funerals etc over the years, but I always felt that this was terribly unfair on them. One of them would attend special occasions if they could. People with children with special needs don't "choose" not to have a babysitter - they CAN'T find someone that will be able to mind them. Respite care is very limited. People can't choose to leave their child/teenager at home. Even family turn a blind eye to situations like that in MOST cases.

    When I was young we rarely went to retaurants and never went on holidays or abroad because of peoples attitudes towards my brother (who like the child in the opening post makes grunting noises). I thought things had moved on from that. Clearly I was very much misguided. Some people are as thick as ever.

    Over the years a priest has verbally abused my father, as he thought my father must be doing something to my brother for him to be in distress walking in a public area. Meanwhile my brother bit my father as he did not like the disruption to his walk. Who was wrong? One of the traits of autism is that children need routine, his routine was broken and he lashed out. However, the priest couldn't accept that what my father was saying was true and interrogated him for about 5 minutes while my brother bit him in several places up his arm, and he was left with scars. This is not bad behaviour.

    A neighbour who had been informed of my brother's condition asked her boyfriend to approach him because she was not happy with the amount of time he spent in the garden as she felt he was watching her. My brother was a teenager and enjoyed spending time on his swing. It was one of the only things that he could enjoy, as he can't read, doesn't understand TV, and is completely dependent on my parents as regards going places. Her boyfriend came over to tell him he was going to beat the **** out of him unless he stopped looking at his girlfriend. Luckily my father came out of the house to address the situation, as my brother hadn't a clue what he was saying. Once again, I thought this type of person had been left in the 90s.

    The Gardai called at our house about my brother's grunting as they were doing a standard walk around our area and demanded to know what was going on. Once again, it took them quite some time to accept that my brother had special needs, as he looks like everybody else.

    Teenagers have circled my dad walking with my brother calling them gay, and my dad a paedophile as my dad had to hold my brothers hand on walks (when he was a teenager) as he had no understanding of roads.

    I could name several other incidences.

    My parents have been martyrs over the years. Special needs provision in this country is severely underfunded. In fact, it was a disgrace in the good times, so I don't know what it's going to be like for the next few years. The parents of these children have to deal with these noises and distubances every day, every week, every year. Everyone has a right to grieve. A child grunting is not the same as a crying baby. I can't believe that there are people who are so ignorant that they would equate the two. People should not have to hide their children with special needs. I hope nobody here who criticised these people ever have a child with special needs.

    I completely disagree with the OP, but this comment made about the people in a restaurant is beyond comprehension. Think about someone else for a change. It was thinking like yours that caused some of the worst attrocities in human history.





    99% of you post has nothing to do with this seanario/ there is no movement against people with special needs being vocalised here. no one is talking about stoping SN children going to places like schools or restaurants or any of that other stuff.

    this isnt an issue about special needs, its specifically about a fueneral and having some respect for a family mourning thier loved one by taking some action to stop something that is clearly upsetting people. its called "Thinking about someone else "


  • #99
    omega666
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭omega666


    Nuggles wrote: »
    I always found funerals to be an inclusive event in Irish community. Something that brings families together. All members of a family.

    I don't think the OP has a right to exclude ANYONE from a funeral. It might have meant a lot to the mother to have her child there with her. And I don't think it's fair that she should have been denied the right to be there by anyone. Even if her son's presence was a nuisance to some people.

    My grandmother died last year. And her very elderly sister wanted to attend, despite advice not to due to her frailty. But we didn't deny her that. We went out of our way to make sure she could attend, and she interrupted the wake at one point because she felt ill. But not one person complained. Because we were all glad that she could be included.

    I think the OP needs to see the big picture here, and realise that a funeral, isn't about a perfectly choreographed ceremony, it's about saying goodbye and mourning a loss. And that's what they should have focused on instead of a person making some noise in the church.



    its all depends on the amount of noise being made.
    for example. if your sitting in front of a baby that is crying at the top of thier lungs you can be sure there is no way you can focus with that going on.

    if the parent didnt take that child out and decided to let them cry away im pretty sure theres not a single person here that wouldnt get irratated and say something eventually.


  • #100
    Nuggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 476 ✭✭Nuggles


    A crying baby is a temporary phrase in someone's life. A person can deal with that on rare occasions if they feel the need to. A woman with a special needs child shouldn't have to live like she has a permanently screaming baby.

    Nor should her son be treated like that. He makes noise a lot of the time, that's who he is, he cant help that. Not should he be excluded because he can't help it.

    Everyone has habits other people don't like. Both special needs and otherwise. You learn to put up with them. And you learn to deal with them, when you know a person can't help doing it. You do not punish them for it.


  • #101
    Cheap Thrills!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,723 ✭✭✭Cheap Thrills!


    Having read Op's update there I think emotion was high and perhaps the Mam with the SN son might have been hurried and pressured, got to the church on time and sat in the next available seat perhaps...maybe THEN the church filled up and they didn't want to cause fuss moving, who knows....

    Whatever the cause I really think a special needs parent and child should be recognised as something totally apart from 'disruptive' -that word in this thread I object to. If someone is grunting and making INVOLUNTARY noises...they are not trying to disrupt anyone. In fact many SN people are aware of these things and may feel even more anxious in turn.

    I think this was just an unfortunate incident, I think the Mam was already possibly feeling self conscious and the ideal thing to do would be to zen it out. The person doesn't mean to upset anyone, maybe they made a mistake not moving but as has been said humanity twords them would show greater respect for the person whose funeral it was.


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  • #102
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I can see this from both sides, I have a relative who has special needs, but I've also buried a close family member recently and would not have liked the occasion to be disrupted by anyone.

    To be clear, I believe a funeral is a sombre occasion, and from my experience parents with young kids/babies sit on the edge of the aisle where they can exit quickly if needs be. Likewise (right or wrong) I would expect, and have seen, parent of special needs children do likewise so they can slip out again if needs be.

    I don't have any children yet, but if I did have one, whether a baby who couldn't control when they cried or a special needs child of any age, I would hate to see them excluded - or myself excluded because of them - from family events, be they funerals or weddings. At the same time you do need to respect the solemnity of the occasion and I think this is what the OP objected to, when the child - regardless if it was a 6 mth old child or a 15 year old with with special needs - started creating a distraction he/she should have been brought outside.


  • #103
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The child should not have been near the funeral.. A three year old special needs kid is not more important than the chief mourners. He doesn't know what religion is, he doesn't know what death is, he doesn't know what a funeral is and he doesn't know the deceased.
    I'd be highly embarrassed for that woman for the simple fact that she thinks it's acceptable to intrude so much on a distant relative's funeral under the assumption that people will be too polite and tolerant to say anything.. I assume that OP did not ask her to leave or move without knowing that other mourners felt similar.


  • #104
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    A three year old special needs kid is not more important than the chief mourners.

    I read it to be her recently diagnosed autistic cousin was three rather than the the sn child at the funeral?

    All this talk of her being "distant" and "annoying the CHIEF mourners". How did the woman know about the funeral? How did she pick her seat? All this talk of intrusion and annoyance, how do we know that she wasn't asked along by other family members, she wasn't asked to sit there by other people?

    She clearly took time out of her life to go to the trouble and effort of attending a family funeral to show support and some solidarity, she was there for a reason, I presume taking a sn child to a funeral is not her idea of fun and she got all her efforts thrown back in her face by one person telling her she is less important than them and her child is affecting their ability to mourn. Not nice, regardless of the validity of the sentiment. :(


  • #105
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Neyite wrote: »
    i cant get my head around you asking a special needs person to leave a church irrespective of what is happening inside it- i only hope that your grief caused such a reaction to a special needs child, and that you are not normally such an intolerant person.


    i dont think you were right on any level, and i feel you owe an apology to the carer - it doesnt matter if its a distant/close relative or a total stranger, - you asked someone to remove a special needs person from a public place? its discrimination, at the very least.

    I don't think it matters whether the child has special needs or not- a noisy child is a noisy child- if you think that it's okay to ask any parent to leave then it should paply here to- I understand though how she may have been more sensitive as she's proabbaly accutely aware that her child is often going to be treated differently in life. I'd say explain it to her how upset you were feeling and perhaps this caused you not to consider how difficult it was for her.

    Perhaps if you think it may help wth this particualr woman point out that it was the noise that upset people not the fact her child has SN and would have asked any mother to do the same- but perhaps you were not sensitive enough to her feelings and maybe make an effort with her child in the future (offer to babysit if appropriate) just to make it clear you are not some monster who discriminates against children with SN.


  • #106
    tinkerbell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,423 ✭✭✭tinkerbell


    It doesn't matter if the child is special needs or not. If the child is causing a disturbance, so much that you can't even hear what's being said in the church, then the parents should take the child outside. The mother of the child should have had the cop on to take her child outside but just was on her high horse. In my opinion, the mother of the child was extremely selfish and ignorant.

    A three year old probably doesn't even realise anyway what a funeral is and there is no need for them to necessarily be there.

    It should be her apologising to the OP, not only did she refuse to take the child outside but she said a snide remark as well. No doubt it was an upsetting day enough for the OP, nevermind having to deal with snide remarks from this woman.


  • #107
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    tinkerbell wrote: »
    It doesn't matter if the child is special needs or not. If the child is causing a disturbance, so much that you can't even hear what's being said in the church, then the parents should take the child outside. The mother of the child should have had the cop on to take her child outside but just was on her high horse. In my opinion, the mother of the child was extremely selfish and ignorant.

    A three year old probably doesn't even realise anyway what a funeral is and there is no need for them to necessarily be there.

    It should be her apologising to the OP, not only did she refuse to take the child outside but she said a snide remark as well. No doubt it was an upsetting day enough for the OP, nevermind having to deal with snide remarks from this woman.

    The problem is when your child has SN and you worry about them experiancing discrimination every day of their lives you do become more sensitive- explain your position and make it clear you were not being biggoted


  • #108
    amz5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭amz5


    geogorio wrote: »
    99% of you post has nothing to do with this seanario/ there is no movement against people with special needs being vocalised here. no one is talking about stoping SN children going to places like schools or restaurants or any of that other stuff.

    this isnt an issue about special needs, its specifically about a fueneral and having some respect for a family mourning thier loved one by taking some action to stop something that is clearly upsetting people. its called "Thinking about someone else "


    How easily you dismiss my post as irrelevant. Actually my post was mostly in response to the post about the desire to exclude a woman with special needs from a restaurant which I quoted in my post. That is why I quoted the point about the restaurant in my post. So there was a movement in that post to exclude a person (in this case an adult) from a public place.

    I also noted that I disagreed with the OP's first post. However, I wouldn't have responded to the thread except for the overall attitude expressed here. It is not the OP, but the other posts which disgust me. Most of them were not specific to this incident, they were anti-special needs. They needed a response.

    My post responds to the large number of bigoted posts on this thread. I can't quote individual posters (just to say I think you are a bigot) because that is against the charter. I thought that by presenting this from another point of view that it might give some of these posters perspective. However, it would seem that for some people ignorance is bliss. I'm not saying the OP was being particularly discriminative, but many posters here were.

    A feature of prejudice is the inability to see the other person's perspective. I have not dismissed the OPs post. I don't think it would be possible to know how much of a disturbance was being caused without being there,and I sympathise with the fact that the OP was caused distress on a day that was already very difficult. However, I don't think anyone should be asked to leave a church.


  • #109
    Kablamo!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 879 ✭✭✭Kablamo!


    Annon1515151 wrote: »
    I was at a family funeral last week which was attended to by all of my family, distant and close.
    It was very sad and tragic as her death was sudden and not expected at all.

    My problem arose when a relative (distant) who attended the funeral with her special needs child refused to leave the church with the kid. I know this a sensitive issue so i'll try be subtle, the kid was making really loud noises and grunts for most of the Mass. This really wasn't needed considering we were all so upset, we couldn't even hear some of the readings or what the priest was saying a lot of the time. I know she had the right to be there just like us but if that was me I would have left the church if my child was being so loud. These noises were really loud and not just occasional, It was as if the child was distressed.

    I got so annoyed that I quietly asked her if she would leave the church or go to the back as it was upsetting us. She refused point blank to leave and past some snide remark.
    After the Mass she confronted me outside and it got quite heated.

    Was I right to ask her to leave or is there something socially wrong with me that I would ask someone with the SN kid to leave a church?

    I buried my Father in August and I can honestly say "listening" to the funeral was the furthest thing from my mind. For the immediate family, you know what readings are being read, you've agonised for hours picking the damn things out.

    Personally, with myself and my mother being the chief mourners as it were, if a cousin/ aunt/ etc had asked somebody to take their child (special needs or not) out of the church I would have seen red. I think you were quite rude to be honest.


  • #110
    MissHoneyBun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭MissHoneyBun


    The bottom line is children with Special Needs don't like to be treated any differently from everyone else and the biggest thing any parents can do for a kid with Special Needs is to treat them the same as they would any other child. This includes teaching them how to behave appropriately in social situations. It is really important that this child is taught appropriate behaviour now so they can grow into a fully-functioning, independent adult.

    It's not the mourners here who were treating the child any differently by requesting that a noisy, disruptive child leave but the child's own parent who expected special treatment on the basis of Special Needs. And if they want their child to integrate well into everday life, that is not the route to go. Essentially, the parents are doing their child no favours by allowing the child to draw unnecessary attention to him/herself and are not exerting their parental responsibilities correctly by denying their child the chance to grow up in as normal a manner as possible. It's also incredibly important that they don't use the child's disability as an excuse for demanding special treatment except when absolutely unnecessary. Speaking from a teaching perspective, children with Special Needs are highly willing and capable learners and it's vital for their parents to ensure the child is taught the same social skills as everyone else so they can pursue the same dreams and ambitions as everyone else, to as great an extent as possible.

    Unfortunately it's the child's parents who have denied not only the mourners their entitlement to respect but also their child the right to learn the same everyday behaviours that other children are taught.


  • #111
    lizzie09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭lizzie09


    I'm a mother of a SP needs son...hes 23....hes quiet nearly always
    but I have a friend whos severely handicapped son was at her sisters funeral
    and he made a lot of noises....nobody made any comment...he had a rightful place there.

    most peeps with SN kids i know do not have anyone to babysit their child quote!

    Thats about the size of it......you had a point but so did the lady.

    Her situation is ongoing not just on the day of a funeral no matter how sad that
    may be for every one.....perhaps you might apologise....we mothers of SN
    people need kindness.


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  • #112
    MissHoneyBun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭MissHoneyBun


    lizzie09 wrote: »
    Her situation is ongoing not just on the day of a funeral no matter how sad that
    may be for every one

    Exactly Lizzie, her situation is ongoing but so does the world keep turning for everyone else. Those people aren't going to get another chance to mourn their loss at their loved one's funeral again. So this parent can choose to either turn her child's life into a constant battleground by demanding special treatment from the rest of the world or simply equip her child with the necessary means to cope with everyday life.

    The idea is to teach the child independence and self-sufficency by showing them appropriate behaviours and necessary social skills. Not to go through life dependent on the generosity or pity of others.


  • #113
    amz5
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 227 ✭✭amz5


    I'm a teacher too with a number of years teaching experience. I've had several children with SN in my mainstream class. I'm very surprised that a teacher wouldn't be aware of, and sensitive towards involuntary noises made by some SN children. It is not something that can be controlled. It is not "bad behaviour". Sometimes children with SN can be educated to control some of their behaviour. However, many behaviour traits are common to certain types of special needs are impossible to modify. They cannot and should not be treated like a bold child in those situations. Grunting is a common feature of autism.


  • #114
    MissHoneyBun
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭MissHoneyBun


    amz5 wrote: »
    It is not "bad behaviour". Sometimes children with SN can be educated to control some of their behaviour. However, many behaviour traits are common to certain types of special needs are impossible to modify. They cannot and should not be treated like a bold child in those situations. Grunting is a common feature of autism.

    I don't think anybody is suggesting that the child be chastised or treated as bold. Also the OP hasn't specified what the child's Special Needs relate to so you cannot assume they are autistic when there may be a myriad of other possibilites that caused the child to become disruptive.

    My point is that a child with Special Needs is often quite able and perhaps the child may have been responsive if the mother simply explained to them that people were very sad and needed everyone to be quiet for a little while, as opposed to sit there defiantly and give them free reign to cause disruption. Children are intelligent little people and I have experienced kids respond very appropriately to things once adults take the time to explain to them.

    But again all we can do is speculate as we don't know the specifics of this situation. However, the OP did refer to the child sounding distressed and that alone merits their removal from the church in order to have their needs met. This and the fact that the child's mother made a point of making a snide remark to a mourner suggests that her intentions may not have been the best from the outset.


  • #115
    lizzie09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭lizzie09


    So this parent can choose to either turn her child's life into a constant battleground by demanding special treatment from the rest of the world or simply equip her child with the necessary means to cope with everyday life.


    MissHoneyBun
    It doesnt work like that! No parent wants special treatment or to stand
    out at an occasion like this...as Amz5 said its not as easy as you may think
    to stop behaviours.

    It is such a pity that the chief mourners were upset but it was unintended..
    I doubt that the poor mother will venture out to something like that again..
    you have no idea how difficult it can be parenting Sp needs kids and trying
    to have a life never mind a death!


  • #116
    forestfruits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 572 ✭✭✭forestfruits


    Special Needs or not the parent should have had the cop on to know that in the situation the childs behaviour was causing upset. It shouldnt have come to a stage where you had to upset her by asking her to leave!


  • #117
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    The OP clearly stated in their first post that this was a DISTANT relative.

    I parent alone, have very little support and would not bring my child to a distant relatives funeral. My child (thankfully) does not have special needs, but he is a child. He doesnt want to be at a funeral, no more than I want him to be at a funeral.

    Lets be honest here - you can offer your distant relatives support by a mass card etc. Not by bringing your child to the relatives funeral. The family won't remember whether you were, or werent there. They will remember a disruptive child who makes it impossible to hear their parents eulogy though.
    OP, I dont know if I would have had the b*lls to ask anyone to leave, but I have to hand it to you, I think you did the right thing.


  • #118
    Communicationb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 147 ✭✭Communicationb


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    We all have very different opinions and I don't think I'm going to agree with this stance, although I respect what you say and you are entitled to your opinion.

    Think I'll bail here as I've got to work :)


    Yes..good idea, unlike you she knows what she is talking about.


  • #119
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,044 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Communicationb Unhelpful and off-topic posting will get you banned from this forum.
    Do take time to read the charter which contains the rules and abide by them.
    Have a nice day.
    Thaedydal


  • #120
    Elle Collins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 681 ✭✭✭Elle Collins


    forestfruits wrote: »
    Special Needs or not the parent should have had the cop on to know that in the situation the childs behaviour was causing upset. It shouldnt have come to a stage where you had to upset her by asking her to leave!

    + 1

    Special needs of a child are no excuse for that sort of contemptuous behaviour from the mother. If I had been in that situation and it had been a very close relative I'd have told her to leave and if she'd refused she'd have been going out the church door whether she wanted to go or not.


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  • #121
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Elle Collins wrote: »
    + 1

    Special needs of a child are no excuse for that sort of contemptuous behaviour from the mother. If I had been in that situation and it had been a very close relative I'd have told her to leave and if she'd refused she'd have been going out the church door whether she wanted to go or not.

    I would like to see someone try to remove me and my special needs child from a church or anywhere else that i didnt want to leave. Once again replies from people who very obviously have no idea or cannot intellectually fathom what its like to be a parent of a child with special needs.

    You will also find because of the daily struggles we have to deal with 24/7 we are among the toughest people emotionally out there

    The mother behaved the way anyone would when they are discriminated against as I already said maybe she should just lock herself indoors in case her child disrupts anyone.

    BTW if the OP has been so overcome with grief they wouldnt have taken much notice of what some distant relative and child were doing.


This discussion has been closed.
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