Weight loss and speed

Seres · 21-04-2010 10:40am #1

i read somwhere that as much as two pounds can make a difference of 30sec to 10k time ( stand to be corrected with figure here ) , however i dont seem to be able to shift even one pound .
Running bout 30-40miles a week , eaten more or less seems to be having no effect on my weight , obviously i dont want to diet as loosing weight too quickly just wastes away muscle tissue , can someone advice me on the best approach to take ? and explain to me why i dont put on weight when i eat more or loss weight when i am eating less ???

elvis jones · 21-04-2010 10:52am

Seres wrote: »

i read somwhere that as much as two pounds can make a difference of 30sec to 10k time ( stand to be corrected with figure here ) , however i dont seem to be able to shift even one pound .
Running bout 30-40miles a week , eaten more or less seems to be having no effect on my weight , obviously i dont want to diet as loosing weight too quickly just wastes away muscle tissue , can someone advice me on the best approach to take ? and explain to me why i dont put on weight when i eat more or loss weight when i am eating less ???

+1 there on running and not getting my weight down.

But i am losing inches but at some point the scales has to move..........that it, its the scales fault:D

I am eating healthy and have changed my diet. Ok every so often i have a blow out like anyone else but my diet is strict the majority of the time and snack foods and take aways are gone...........but still nothing in a while even with running and cycling.

Since Nov i'm down about 5 bls but my suit is falling off me so muscle replacing fat but the mind games start when the scales doesn't move:(

TFBubendorfer · 21-04-2010 11:03am

The formula you usually find is that each pound less means an improvement of 2 seconds per mile.

Thus 2 pounds over 10k = 2 x 2 x 6.2 = 24.8 seconds.

If the formula is correct could probably be discussed until the end of times.

As for dropping weight while training, I found this book very interesting: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Weight-Matt-Fitzgerald/dp/1934030511

I lost about 6 pounds over a few weeks while training for Connemara, and the speed improvement for tempo runs was between 10 and 20 seconds per mile. How much that was down to weight loss and how much to improved fitness is, of course, open to questions.

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 11:03am

Seres,

I find cycling really helps me lose weight as you can do more hours of it than running. For example like you i do 30-40miles most weeks which equates to approx 5hrs running, but 15hrs cycling is easier on the body. it doesnt have to be a straight choice between the two, im going to commute 2-3 times a week or do one long spin (day after my long run rather than rest or small recovery run - to burn the calories). maybe try it for a bit.

also the scales might not be going down as if your eating less your body might be going into starvation mode - storing fats. sound weird but maybe eat more often but not necessarily much more food. (maybe more fruit and veg tho). it really is a simple calories in v calories out. maybe you ve more water in your body lately tho? or more muscle? its impossible to know.

elvis jones · 21-04-2010 11:15am

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

The formula you usually find is that each pound less means an improvement of 2 seconds per mile.

Thus 2 pounds over 10k = 2 x 2 x 6.2 = 24.8 seconds.

If the formula is correct could probably be discussed until the end of times.

As for dropping weight while training, I found this book very interesting: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Racing-Weight-Matt-Fitzgerald/dp/1934030511

I lost about 6 pounds over a few weeks while training for Connemara, and the speed improvement for tempo runs was between 10 and 20 seconds per mile. How much that was down to weight loss and how much to improved fitness is, of course, open to questions.

Freaky.....

I was jusy looking at the book in Waterstones on my break ( i hadn't seen this thread )

Could a chat to a professional about diet help ??

TFBubendorfer · 21-04-2010 11:28am

elvis jones wrote: »

Could a chat to a professional about diet help ??

Sure. As long as the professional understands sports nutrition.

Seres · 21-04-2010 11:29am

thanks guys

think i will buy that book TFBubendorfer , i have put on about 4 pounds since coming back from holidays ??! and am training more , i dont feel i have put on weight and my times are goin down , i hydrate well and i certainly am not starving myself, might be like kenny said down to muscle , wonder would that make a difference of 4 pounds though , i am currently 54kg , prob need to get down to 51kg , 5'2 ?

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 11:31am

sound like its muscle if your times are going down and you dont feel the weight on you. id always watch body shape not just the scales.

elvis jones · 21-04-2010 11:38am

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Sure. As long as the professional understands sports nutrition.

Any names ????

I'd like to get this done and have a path to follow and then i KNOW i'm doing all i can in the right way.

Unlike the OP i have a good bit of weight to get down. I'm 103KG and would like to get down to 90kg, but i've always been bulky so i might be aiming for too much in the long run ( pun not intended )

TFBubendorfer · 21-04-2010 12:00pm

elvis jones wrote: »

Any names ????

Sorry, can't help here. I've never been to a professional nutritionist.

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 12:05pm

nip over to the fitness forum and the food area and save yourself a few quid. At that weight you definitely only need a few basics to help you out.

Oisin11178 · 21-04-2010 12:08pm

I was 85kg when i took up running a year ago. I weighed myself yesterday and i am 85kg:-)
I was 34 waist a year ago and now im a 30 waist. My legs have doubled in size with muscle. Its about body compisition and how you look. Yeah it would be nice to get on the scales and be another stone lighter but that would not be healthy for me.

menoscemo · 21-04-2010 12:21pm

Oisin11178 wrote: »

I was 85kg when i took up running a year ago. I weighed myself yesterday and i am 85kg:-)
I was 34 waist a year ago and now im a 30 waist. My legs have doubled in size with muscle. Its about body compisition and how you look. Yeah it would be nice to get on the scales and be another stone lighter but that would not be healthy for me.

I am the same as yourself Oisin except at 75 kg. I got down there from over 90kg before starting to run about a year ago but since starting I remain the same weight no matter what i eat/ don't eat. I even gave up all Crisps and chocolate etc over lent and didn't move an ounce. If I go on a binge of badfood/drink/ no excercise for a while i tend to gain a few pounds (like over christmas) but then drop it off really quick and then get stuck at 75kg.

Despite not losing weight in the last year most people think I have lost loads and I do look a lot slimmer in photos.

I just think some of us have an ideal weight and our body is not designed to go any lower.

elvis jones · 21-04-2010 12:33pm

According to the BMI index Brian O'Driscoll is Obese.........

he has a BMI of 30.1.................;)

I don't mind staying 103KG if the belly goes down:D

I think its time to continue with the healthy eating and exercise and leave the sclaes alone:(

aero2k · 21-04-2010 12:47pm

Hi Seres,

Judging by your performance on Sunday, weight is not a problem.:)

To answer your question: I have twice reduced from 78/80 k down to 66/67kg, once while cycling competitively, more recently while running. Both experiences have some common elements:

I never made a decision to lose weight, and I never set a target weight.
Weight loss was slow when I was just doing easy miles, and only became rapid when I started doing high intensity work (i.e. tempo/intervals)
In both cases I tried to have a reasonably healthy diet, without too much fat, but allowing myself some treats - a few pints, biscuits...and never counting calories or points.
Both times I reckon my food intake went up. I eat a fair bit, and I regurlarly get up in the middle of the night for a snack, particularly if I've had a hard session that day.
Both times my "equilibrium" weight was the same.

When I eased off training (quite) a bit after DCM '08, I went back up to about 75kg by Christmas.

I've read somewhere (sorry, no source) that while moderate exercise raises your metabolism while exercising, high intensity exercise raises it for several hours afterwards as well. I also have a theory that if we are exercising well, our bodies have a way of regulating our appetite so we just take in what we need. (I suppose this assumes we're only eating when we're hungry and not comfort eating). Finally I've heard it said that thirst is often mistaken for hunger and that it's a good idea to drink a glass of water if you feel hungry.

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 12:56pm

elvis jones wrote: »

According to the BMI index Brian O'Driscoll is Obese.........

he has a BMI of 30.1.................;)

I don't mind staying 103KG if the belly goes down:D

I think its time to continue with the healthy eating and exercise and leave the sclaes alone:(

i think your missing a big point there. bmi doesnt really apply to body builders, boxers, rugby players etc. it is a general tool - not highly specific.

Brian O Driscoll is not an endurance athlete in fact i reckon id whip him over 10k - bring it on BOD

Seres · 21-04-2010 1:02pm

aero2k wrote: »

Hi Seres,

Judging by your performance on Sunday, weight is not a problem.:)
.

thanks

[/QUOTE]
To answer your question: I have twice reduced from 78/80 k down to 66/67kg, once while cycling competitively, more recently while running. Both experiences have some common elements:

I never made a decision to lose weight, and I never set a target weight.
Weight loss was slow when I was just doing easy miles, and only became rapid when I started doing high intensity work (i.e. tempo/intervals)
In both cases I tried to have a reasonably healthy diet, without too much fat, but allowing myself some treats - a few pints, biscuits...and never counting calories or points.
Both times I reckon my food intake went up. I eat a fair bit, and I regurlarly get up in the middle of the night for a snack, particularly if I've had a hard session that day.
Both times my "equilibrium" weight was the same.

When I eased off training (quite) a bit after DCM '08, I went back up to about 75kg by Christmas.

I've read somewhere (sorry, no source) that while moderate exercise raises your metabolism while exercising, high intensity exercise raises it for several hours afterwards as well. I also have a theory that if we are exercising well, our bodies have a way of regulating our appetite so we just take in what we need. (I suppose this assumes we're only eating when we're hungry and not comfort eating). Finally I've heard it said that thirst is often mistaken for hunger and that it's a good idea to drink a glass of water if you feel hungry.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=aero2k;65511230]
thanks , some sound advice there , definitely agree re watch your weight adng loosing pounds never go together
interesting take on effect of fast and slow sessions on the bodys metabolism
think i will stop watchin the scales maintain current diet and see what happens for now

elvis jones · 21-04-2010 1:12pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

i think your missing a big point there. bmi doesnt really apply to body builders, boxers, rugby players etc. it is a general tool - not highly specific.

Brian O Driscoll is not an endurance athlete in fact i reckon id whip him over 10k - bring it on BOD

Not missing the point, some people swear by BMI. My point is that it does not relate to everyone.

I do not have the build of a runner and never had ( darts player maybe:D )

I have to realise that i might never get 90KG but i might lose inches that will not show on the scales.

Pherekydes · 21-04-2010 1:14pm

I have a speak-your-weight scales. Last year, on my birthday, I weighed 92kg. This year, yesterday, it said "GTFO, ya fat slob". I replied that I'm injured and it said "Admit it, you're ****ing lazy."

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 1:14pm

plenty of time to work on it. give yourself a year. i just mean dont ever let some preconcieved idea about your build hold you back - anybody can gain or lose both muscle and fat.

Oisin11178 · 21-04-2010 1:25pm

menoscemo wrote: »

I am the same as yourself Oisin except at 75 kg. I got down there from over 90kg before starting to run about a year ago but since starting I remain the same weight no matter what i eat/ don't eat. I even gave up all Crisps and chocolate etc over lent and didn't move an ounce. If I go on a binge of badfood/drink/ no excercise for a while i tend to gain a few pounds (like over christmas) but then drop it off really quick and then get stuck at 75kg.

Despite not losing weight in the last year most people think I have lost loads and I do look a lot slimmer in photos.

I just think some of us have an ideal weight and our body is not designed to go any lower.

Yeah describes me to a tee mate. I work like a dog training 90 precent me the time and weight stays the same. I take a week off and up it goes. Comes off after a bit of training though.

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 1:36pm

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Yeah describes me to a tee mate. I work like a dog training 90 precent me the time and weight stays the same. I take a week off and up it goes. Comes off after a bit of training though.

Agreed i think you hit a plateau weight from just running miles - mine is 11 4 - 11 6, but i think thats when you need to mix it around - try cycling, boxing, swimming - whatever your into and scrutinise your diet even more stringently.

like i can be honest with myself and say that when i give up choc or something for few weeks i eat more pizza or take away - as i still have that i want/deserve a treat feeling.

DustyBin · 21-04-2010 1:54pm

kennyb3 wrote: »

i still have that i want/deserve a treat feeling.

The more I run the more I eat ... it's a large part of the reason why I love running so much

Maybe I'd run faster if I ate less dinner or fewer treats, but I really like eating whatever I fancy

Body shape has improved and dropped from 34 - 30 on waist, but like Oisin said I'm going around with 2 tree trunks for legs

Will try and keep it somewhat in check for the couple of weeks before Cork marathon, but I do love my food

Saying all that, in general my diet is much healthier (wholewheat and seeds bread -v- white, porridge and granola -v- crunchy nut cornflakes, water -v- 7-up, that kind of thing)

mloc123 · 21-04-2010 2:21pm

Same here, dropped from an initial weight of around 110kg.. currently 72kg. Looking to hit 67kg but I feel like I have been 72/73kg forever. I have dropped from a 32 to a 30 and probably a 28 when I buy more new jeans in the last 3/4 months but weight wise I'm still the same.

I have a this which tells me I am currently around 13.5% fat, it was around 16% a couple of months back. I wouldn't bet my house on its accuracy.

I have decided not to worry so much about weight for the next month or so and see how things go... maybe its not everything when it comes to running.

dna_leri · 21-04-2010 2:24pm

Oisin11178 wrote: »

Yeah describes me to a tee mate. I work like a dog training 90 precent me the time and weight stays the same. I take a week off and up it goes. Comes off after a bit of training though.

When I started back running a few years ago, I weighed 81 Kg, and it was not until I started some speed work about 6 months later that I began to really lose weight.
Last year I kept a close watch on my weight and found I lost the most when I was doing the biggest mix of speed and distance work, at my lowest 64 Kg.
Last week I got back up on the scales after no running for 4 weeks due to injury and found I had lost a kilo during that time. Although I was watching my diet, I was doing less exercise but I was doing some different stuff like cycling and weights.
So what I have figured is that varying the type of exercise has a much greater effect on weight loss for me than same speed and type of exercise. I don't have the scientific basis for it, yet.

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 2:28pm

DustyBin wrote: »

The more I run the more I eat ... it's a large part of the reason why I love running so much

Maybe I'd run faster if I ate less dinner or fewer treats, but I really like eating whatever I fancy

Im the exact same sure, its why i love running, but i know if i want to get to the next level and past the plateau stage i know what has to be done - strict diet and vary exercise more (as dna_leri said)

RayCun · 21-04-2010 2:43pm

OH always tells me, "You burn off all those calories with running and then you just put them back on again with biscuits/wine/crisps/those little peppers stuffed with cheese...."
....mmm, peppers stuffed with cheese....
....
where was I?

oh yeah, I always reply, "Yes, I burn off all those calories with running so that I can just put them back on again...."

littlebug · 21-04-2010 2:44pm

Interesting. Despite doing the same mileage as I was doing last summer I have put on and kept on a few lbs. The biggest difference is that I was doing more interval sessions and speedwork last year whereas this year I've been building up to longer distances so running longer and slower. So plodding along despite the mileage just isn't cutting mustard with regard to weight (or maybe I'm eating more biccies:o).

Seres · 21-04-2010 2:45pm

dna_leri wrote: »

When I started back running a few years ago, I weighed 81 Kg, and it was not until I started some speed work about 6 months later that I began to really lose weight.
Last year I kept a close watch on my weight and found I lost the most when I was doing the biggest mix of speed and distance work, at my lowest 64 Kg.
Last week I got back up on the scales after no running for 4 weeks due to injury and found I had lost a kilo during that time. Although I was watching my diet, I was doing less exercise but I was doing some different stuff like cycling and weights.
So what I have figured is that varying the type of exercise has a much greater effect on weight loss for me than same speed and type of exercise. I don't have the scientific basis for it, yet.

i also tend to loose a few pounds when i stop training which confuses me cause i always feel sloppier and heavier ,
i also understand how varying exercise types helps reduce weight , happened me last year when i was training for tri however not prepared to do that this time to loose weight , would kinda defeat the point of it i.e replace running for other sport to lose weight , and forget main objective : to get faster running times
i think i will have to up my game plan diet wise to loose that weight , dont know if i am prepared to do that at moment , i do like my food , i feel i would be miserable on a strict training diet and that would definitely affect my preformance

kennyb3 · 21-04-2010 2:48pm

Seres wrote: »

i also tend to loose a few pounds when i stop training which confuses me cause i always feel sloppier and heavier ,

happens me too. i always asuume its either a) loosing muscle or b) watching diet unconsciously and thus less food in my gut when i weigh myself

elvis jones · 21-04-2010 3:14pm

Just to add when i started running i was 110KG so i have lost 7Kg, its just stalled at that for a good 6 to 8 weeks now:(

Also i have started cycling as well to put in some extra training without any more pressure on my poor joints !

RacoonQueen · 21-04-2010 3:58pm

I'd be simliar to you Seres, I'm the same height as you but probably about half a stone heavier, I don't really weigh myself but I know I've lost weight over the last year and in turn my training and performance times have improved significantly.

Couple of things though re: losing weight when you're not training as much - either you're losing muscle or you're not eating enough when you're training. I would like to lose maybe 3 - 6 kg but I'm not going to actively try. I reckon if I got down about 6kg I'd be pushing a 3 hour marathon and 90 minute half. I'm a demon for not eating enough, I've never had a big appetite and the only thing I calorie count for is to make sure I eat enough.

How long have you been running 30-40 miles for? - maybe if you upped it to 45 miles every other week to change things around it would help. More hill sessions, more intervals sessions. Basically just changing your training around to make your body work harder, once it becomes efficient at what you're putting it through it takes less calories to say run 40 miles a week than it would have done when you started running 40 miles a week(yep I know all this will help my performances and me lose weight but I've never bothered changing things myself) :pac:

Any weight I've ever lost has been when I've just got on with it and not worried about it, I eat healthily because it helps running, I love salads, fruit and veg - eat a good bit of meat for the protein but I don't think I get anywhere near enough calories to help me lose weight.

This is actually something I've been thinking of to try and improve my training, recovery and performance and I've been thinking of seeing a nutritionist for it aswell. I'm planning on starting(no idea when I'll start it) an accurate food log for a couple of weeks - put in my training times, effort levels etc and see if I'm doing things right.

toomuchdetail · 21-04-2010 10:09pm

mloc123 wrote: »

Same here, dropped from an initial weight of around 110kg.. currently 72kg..

Silly question but How ?
I have gone from 122kg about 18months ago to 108kg but nothing more will budge . Train pretty regularly and probably over train but this is been addressed .While not fast my half pb is 1:45 and my 5k pb is 21:15. 4 inches are gone from the waist .A personal trainer friend of mine constantly tells me I am not eating enough to lose weight and he is probably right in some respect as I tended to eat a lot of crap (scones,biscuits,crisps) so I am/was filling up on the wrong type of foods.
Going to find a sports nutrionist and keep a log as its probably a neglected part of my regime (like resting).
I made the assumption last year that trianing would take care of the weight so never addressed the diet . This year I hope to address both.

Weight loss and speed

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