€302 annual tax on a 2010 Mercedes Benz?

Raiser · 26-04-2010 12:54PM #1

I saw a 2010 registered Mercedes Benz yesterday it was nearly half the size of the Hotel it was parked outside and in the windscreen the Tax Disc was displayed - €302 Annual Tax paid - roughly half what most People pay annually for the typical Family Saloon.

Clearly The Green Party expects us all to go out and invest in Mercedes Vehicles and save the Planet?

- Or is it just an ingenious way the rampantly idiotic Greens came up with so that the very Wealthiest People in our Society can continue to pay a minimal amount of tax to fund our Schools, Hospitals and Public services?

Cookie_Monster · 26-04-2010 12:56PM

its a low CO2 emitting car so whats wrong with that. Probably diesel.

I drive a BMW 320 coupe and that has the same tax, under the old scheme it would have been over 2k.

you can of course buy small cars with even lower tax if you feel like it.

Raiser · 26-04-2010 01:17PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

its a low CO2 emitting car so whats wrong with that. Probably diesel.

I drive a BMW 320 coupe and that has the same tax, under the old scheme it would have been over 2k.

you can of course buy small cars with even lower tax if you feel like it.

The "just buy a smaller car" logic is a little short-sighted - Should the average cash-strapped family buy a little Micra and strap the Children, Buggies, and multitude of related accessories to the roof-rack so that they can then pay the same annual car tax as someone who earns 100K+ a year and thinks nothing of buying a 2010 Car for 80K?

- Also its not like you can opt to get the Bus or Train as an alternative in this Country; Even if you did happen to have public transport nearby, which is hugely unlikely for most of us, its going to be too impractical or expensive anyhow.

The Green Party truly are a shining light in their own pathetic Arena of utter Stupidity.

Max Power1 · 26-04-2010 01:18PM

Raiser wrote: »

The "just buy a smaller car" logic is a little short-sighted - Should the average cash-strapped family buy a little Micra and strap the Children, Buggies, and multitude of related accessories to the roof-rack so that they can then pay the same annual car tax as someone who earns 100K+ a year and thinks nothing of buying a 2010 Car for 80K?

- Also its not like you can opt to get the Bus or Train as an alternative in this Country; Even if you did happen to have public transport nearby, which is hugely unlikely for most of us, its going to be too impractical or expensive anyhow.

The Green Party truly are a shining light in their own pathetic Arena of utter Stupidity.

typical irish begrudgery tbh

Raiser · 26-04-2010 01:33PM

Max Power1 wrote: »

typical irish begrudgery tbh

You're entitled to your opinion and that hold true no matter what your opinion is tbh....

- Thanks for your contribution and stark insight!

Cookie_Monster · 26-04-2010 01:36PM

Raiser wrote: »

The "just buy a smaller car" logic is a little short-sighted - Should the average cash-strapped family buy a little Micra and strap the Children, Buggies, and multitude of related accessories to the roof-rack so that they can then pay the same annual car tax as someone who earns 100K+ a year and thinks nothing of buying a 2010 Car for 80K?
.

I really don't get what you are on about. An awful lot of "standard" cars fall into that bracket or lower. Passat, golf, avensis, mondeo etc etc.

car tax is a very small part of the running expense of a car. I doubt someone who buys an 80-100k car even cares about it tbh

Scofflaw · 26-04-2010 01:41PM

If the OP is suggesting that a Mercedes is the only car that qualifies for a low rate of tax, he's rather obviously wrong - which makes the point of this thread rather moot, since it's based on a very simply false premise.

Is there any plan here bar a bit of green-bashing?

moderately,
Scofflaw

Raiser · 26-04-2010 01:41PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

car tax is a very small part of the running expense of a car. I doubt someone who buys an 80-100k car even cares about it tbh

Exactly - Which is why they're not even going to notice when they have to pay tax to help pay for Hospital beds and Schools.

- What the Green Party have done is typically obtuse and harebrained.

Cookie_Monster · 26-04-2010 01:42PM

Raiser wrote: »

- What the Green Party have done is typically obtuse and harebrained.

why do you think this?

They are encouraging people to buy clear, less polluting cars

Raiser · 26-04-2010 01:43PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

If the OP is suggesting that a Mercedes is the only car that qualifies for a low rate of tax, he's rather obviously wrong - which makes the point of this thread rather moot, since it's based on a very simply false premise.

Is there any plan here bar a bit of green-bashing?

moderately,
Scofflaw

Ha? The Mercedes example is just one single case posted here as an example, the same premise can be reduced reused and recycled indefinitely.

Point taken re. the Green-Bashing, will concentrate on just pointing out the lapsed logic etc.

Permabear · 26-04-2010 02:00PM

This post has been deleted.

Cookie_Monster · 26-04-2010 02:03PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

but that is because the old system was stupid and flawed, engine size was a stupid way to calculate motor tax. They could have changed it over better for sure but it needed to be changed one way or the other.

Ideally it should have been scrapped altogether and lumped in with the cost of petrol, on this basis its paid by usage, a much fairer way

Permabear · 26-04-2010 02:12PM

This post has been deleted.

Raiser · 26-04-2010 02:14PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but that is because the old system was stupid and flawed, engine size was a stupid way to calculate road tax. They could have changed it over better for sure but it needed to be changed one way or the other.

Ideally it should have been scrapped altogether and lumped in with the cost of petrol, on this basis its paid by usage, a much fairer way

Exactly - In that scenario if someone wants to buy a 3 Litre Luxo-Barge then let them pay for it.......

- But that's still beside the point in a way, with the salient point being that we are a tiny Country with a tiny handful of cars and the last thing we ever needed was a pack of Braying pseudo-academics legislating for a 'problem' that never existed.

Liam Byrne · 26-04-2010 02:24PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not to mention the new, annual (not-safety-related) NCT.......it'll be years before most ordinary people car buy a new car in this country.

steph1 · 26-04-2010 02:27PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Not to mention the new, annual (not-safety-related) NCT.......it'll be years before most ordinary people car buy a new car in this country.

Thats just another guise to take more money off hard pressed motorists.

OS119 · 26-04-2010 02:36PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

the problem is that the car tax - as opposed to income tax - is specifically designed to be regressive: less fuel efficient, more polluting cars pay more, more fuel efficient, less polluting cars pay less.

its an unfortunate coincidence that newer, more expensive cars will be at one end and older, cheaper cars the other - and therefore you get this richer/poorer divide, but it is a coincidence, its not the central point of the policy.

its not a tax based on income, its a tax designed to change behaviour, and as such if you either make it uniform, or just amalgamate it with income-based taxes, you completely remove the 'carrot and stick' element which is designed to change peoples motoring behaviour and car choice.

Twin-go · 26-04-2010 02:39PM

Why can't older cars, pre the new "Green" road tax bands, be givin the new rates based on their emissions? The info could come from the NCT.

I currently pay €551 for a 2004 1.8l petrol
If I could get the new rate my car is in band C anf would be €302. I'm been over taxed to the tune of €249 every year.:mad:

Raiser · 26-04-2010 02:41PM

OS119 wrote: »

the problem is that the car tax - as opposed to income tax - is specifically designed to be regressive: less fuel efficient, more polluting cars pay more, more fuel efficient, less polluting cars pay less.

its an unfortunate coincidence that newer, more expensive cars will be at one end and older, cheaper cars the other - and therefore you get this richer/poorer divide, but it is a coincidence, its not the central point of the policy.

its not a tax based on income, its a tax designed to change behaviour, and as such if you either make it uniform, or just amalgamate it with income-based taxes, you completely remove the 'carrot and stick' element which is designed to change peoples motoring behaviour and car choice.

If legislation can just be haphazardly implemented on urges, whims and crazy notions without any responsibility being taken for unforeseen consequences then why not just tender the whole lot out to our Schoolchildren or get People on Community Service to formulate these systems etc.

rasper · 26-04-2010 02:53PM

Twin-go wrote: »

Why can't older cars, pre the new "Green" road tax bands, be givin the new rates based on their emissions? The info could come from the NCT.

I currently pay €551 for a 2004 1.8l petrol
If I could get the new rate my car is in band C anf would be €302. I'm been over taxed to the tune of €249 every year.:mad:

Like the annual NCT it was a favour to the car retailers in order to encourage sales of new imported cars

OS119 · 26-04-2010 03:31PM

Raiser wrote: »

If legislation can just be haphazardly implemented on urges, whims and crazy notions without any responsibility being taken for unforeseen consequences then why not just tender the whole lot out to our Schoolchildren or get People on Community Service to formulate these systems etc.

i didn't suggest that it was an unforseen coincidence, just not a coincidence that aroused much concern.

i would hazard to suggest the concept was formulated at a time when a dog could get a bank loan for a new(ish) car, and therefore this 'problem' wasn't considered to be an issue.

times change, but unless you have a mechanism for 'encouraging' people to run cleaner, more efficient vehicles rather than dirtier, less efficient vehicles you aren't going to change that behaviour at a faster rather than that acheived by waiting for such vehicles to fall apart.

Liam Byrne · 26-04-2010 04:01PM

OS119 wrote: »

times change, but unless you have a mechanism for 'encouraging' people to run cleaner, more efficient vehicles rather than dirtier, less efficient vehicles you aren't going to change that behaviour at a faster rather than that acheived by waiting for such vehicles to fall apart.

And if people don't have money then they can't buy a car anyway, so the Greens are just creating extra hardship.

"encouragement" should be cheaper options, not screwing people for the current option while ensuring they can't avail of the options that the rich and well-connected FF & Green supporters have.

Permabear · 26-04-2010 04:13PM

This post has been deleted.

Anto123 · 26-04-2010 04:25PM

And if people don't have money then they can't buy a car anyway, so the Greens are just creating extra hardship.

There is no extra hardship. Tax on pre 2008 cars hasn't risen, it's just that is has gone down on newer low emission cars. If families continue to drive the car they already have there is no increased burden on them.

Originally Posted by Twin-go
Why can't older cars, pre the new "Green" road tax bands, be givin the new rates based on their emissions? The info could come from the NCT.

Changing the system so that all cars were taxed on CO2 would be placing a burden on struggling families as many of them would be facing a tax jump on cars they had already bought and couldn't afford to change.

That said I think it would be nice if there was an option to pay emission based tax on older cars, especially considering the CO2 you are saving by not causing a new car to be built.

As a matter of interest, what alternative sytem would you guys suggest if you don't like CO2 based taxes, and you don't want the tax added to fuel either?

Permabear · 26-04-2010 04:28PM

This post has been deleted.

OS119 · 26-04-2010 04:34PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

an 'honest' tax system would be great - no VAT, or anything else. just a single Income tax.

at 80-odd% for any middle income eaner.

can you see any polictical party putting that on page 1 of their manifesto?

Dannyboy83 · 26-04-2010 04:38PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I was (mistakenly it seems) under the impression that the Greens had planned to do this and add the difference to fuel duty.

What ever happened to that idea?
It seems in this country, new taxes are introduced in the promise that other taxes will be repealed.
Except they are never repealed.

ei.sdraob · 26-04-2010 04:45PM

It aint very "green" now to be running out and scrapping cars that are still quite ok is it?

takes alot of energy and water to make and ship a car, any car

but then again the Greens where never good with logic, ideology yes, logic nope

Permabear · 26-04-2010 04:46PM

This post has been deleted.

Raiser · 26-04-2010 05:23PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Its quite simple - Your Neighbour is being punished because he is suffocating the Planet with his bad, evil, sinful Family Car. He should get himself a Horse and Cart, the Horse shall eat Turnips that this Gentleman will cultivate in an Allotment. He shall collect the Horse Dung and convert it into an eco-fuel to run his cooking stove, the ash from the stove will then be scattered on his allotment meaning that he no longer owes the World a massive debt. All of this will be grant aided by the Green Party if they recive an application written on bark using a sharp stick no later than next Wednesday at 7 Sundial hours.

No but seriously - If you actually look at this in retrospect; The Green Party have steadfastly refused to get involved in the social or economic problems facing your Neighbour. They have left all of that boring stuff to Fianna Fail to concentrate on being seen to effect change - They are in fact so anxious to introduce change, any change, just 'things' of any mad description, that they have had very little opportunity to underpin any of it with common-sense, appropriateness or logic and its all 'bigger picture' stuff that they are mad to showcase at European Conferences to other Green Party Airheads - But be quite sure, none of their plans have anything to do with Joe Bloggs in number 16.

Scofflaw · 26-04-2010 06:37PM

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Your neighbour pays the rates he signed up to pay when he bought his car - rates based on engine size. If he changed to a newer and CO2-efficient car he would benefit - but he's not undergoing any extra hardship. The road tax rates for his car have gone up in the Budget, but they do that every Budget - the basis of the calculation is the one he signed up for, and if he didn't want to pay higher road tax rates, he should have bought a smaller car.

I swear, if the rates for older cars had been changed you'd all be moaning that people had wound up paying tax on a basis they couldn't have expected when they bought their cars - and you'd be right.

As it is, people who bought their cars expecting to pay motor tax on the basis of engine size pay motor tax on the basis of engine size. People who buy a new car will pay motor tax on a different basis. Someone who pays on the old basis they signed up for, and who complains about the new basis they didn't, is just generating hot air out of nothing.

somewhat exasperated,
Scofflaw

€302 annual tax on a 2010 Mercedes Benz?

Comments