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Internet betting to be taxed

  • 14-05-2010 12:36AM
    #1
    digme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭


    THE GOVERNMENT will introduce legislation to ensure overseas betting providers comply with a licensing regime that will permit them to sell their products in Ireland, Taoiseach Brian Cowen has announced.



    “All forms of betting including betting offered over the internet, other remote platforms or over the telephone should make a contribution.
    “Such betting must be brought within the tax net,” Mr Cowen added.


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0514/1224270378463.html


Comments

  • #2
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,259 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Not going to happen.
    They are off shore, he can't force them to do anything afaik
    Nor can he have anything to do with my MB account.
    All he could do is ban them, and it would have to be a blanket ban I'd imagine.


  • #3
    x PyRo
    Moderators Posts: 8,835 ✭✭✭x PyRo


    He just wants more money for food the fat c*nt.


  • #4
    LFC5Times
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭LFC5Times


    x PyRo wrote: »
    He just wants more money for food the fat c*nt.

    You forgot the word ugly ;)


  • #5
    dekbhoy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 481 ✭✭dekbhoy


    x PyRo wrote: »
    He just wants more money for food the fat c*nt.


    Excellent , well thought out mature post. pat on the back for you.


  • #6
    catmelodian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭catmelodian


    Mellor wrote: »
    Not going to happen.
    They are off shore, he can't force them to do anything afaik
    Nor can he have anything to do with my MB account.
    All he could do is ban them, and it would have to be a blanket ban I'd imagine.

    Yes he can if he introduces a license based on where you trade rather than where you are based.


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  • #7
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    catmelodian wrote: »
    Yes he can if he introduces a license based on where you trade rather than where you are based.

    not gonna happen, ladbrokes and hills would threaten to pull out of ireland completely, and I can't even see Brian Cow-man let that many jobs go to the wall


  • #8
    catmelodian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭catmelodian


    the groutch wrote: »
    not gonna happen, ladbrokes and hills would threaten to pull out of ireland completely, and I can't even see Brian Cow-man let that many jobs go to the wall

    I don't think Ladbrokes and Hills would pull out of Ireland as this would have no impact on their shop business. You shouldn't comment on things you know little or nothing about.


  • #9
    Arctic89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 327 ✭✭Arctic89


    catmelodian wrote: »
    Yes he can if he introduces a license based on where you trade rather than where you are based.

    Or he could introduce a tax based on where you are resident/ordinarily resident or domiciled, similar to what they do with Capital Gains Tax, Income Tax and Capital Acquisitions Tax. That basically means if you were born and/ or live in Ireland you would be liable to pay it.

    I dont see it affecting the bookmakers themselves really, more the punter. The tax, if it happens, will probably be on the actual winnings so it will be the punter who pays it and thus receives less winnings for his bet. The bookies would just pay out the winnings, deduct and hold onto the gambling tax and send it off to revenue, similar to what companies do with VAT.

    Itd be a different story altogether if you had to pay a tax when placing a bet, and I imagine that would do significant damage to the betting companies.


  • #10
    catmelodian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭catmelodian


    Arctic89 wrote: »
    Or he could introduce a tax based on where you are resident/ordinarily resident or domiciled, similar to what they do with Capital Gains Tax, Income Tax and Capital Acquisitions Tax. That basically means if you were born and/ or live in Ireland you would be liable to pay it.

    I dont see it affecting the bookmakers themselves really, more the punter. The tax, if it happens, will probably be on the actual winnings so it will be the punter who pays it and thus receives less winnings for his bet. The bookies would just pay out the winnings, deduct and hold onto the gambling tax and send it off to revenue, similar to what companies do with VAT.

    Itd be a different story altogether if you had to pay a tax when placing a bet, and I imagine that would do significant damage to the betting companies.

    You can't tax winnings without making losses deducatable so that will never happen. The tax would definitely be on bets placed, similar to what we have had here for many years already ( the reason for offshore operations). It would be a tax on bets placed by individuals from a certain jurisdiction, in this case Ireland, and it would be levied on the bookmaker as a tax on turnover.


  • #11
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    catmelodian wrote: »
    I don't think Ladbrokes and Hills would pull out of Ireland as this would have no impact on their shop business. You shouldn't comment on things you know little or nothing about.

    I know 100 times more about racing than a novice like yourself, don't you have any exams to be studying for?


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  • #12
    Arctic89
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 327 ✭✭Arctic89


    catmelodian wrote: »
    You can't tax winnings without making losses deducatable so that will never happen. The tax would definitely be on bets placed, similar to what we have had here for many years already ( the reason for offshore operations). It would be a tax on bets placed by individuals from a certain jurisdiction, in this case Ireland, and it would be levied on the bookmaker as a tax on turnover.

    Good point, didnt think about setting off the losses.

    I know myself that if the government introduced a tax placing bets, it would drastically reduce the amount I bet as it would be bad value (putting down a €5 stake and having to pay €6)


  • #13
    catmelodian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭catmelodian


    There already is a tax on bets placed. The bookmaker covers it. In the past this tax has been as high as 20% and was passed to the punter.


  • #14
    bob2oo7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 378 ✭✭bob2oo7


    catmelodian wrote: »
    There already is a tax on bets placed. The bookmaker covers it. In the past this tax has been as high as 20% and was passed to the punter.


    Tax is only applicable on bets placed in Betting Shops

    All internet and phone betting is tax free

    Bets are struck in tax free havens such as the isle of man and alderney

    If this happens, you could see head offices moving to Gibraltar and a loss of jobs in ireland


  • #15
    catmelodian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭catmelodian


    bob2oo7 wrote: »
    Tax is only applicable on bets placed in Betting Shops

    All internet and phone betting is tax free

    Bets are struck in tax free havens such as the isle of man and alderney

    If this happens, you could see head offices moving to Gibraltar and a loss of jobs in ireland

    Try to keep up Bob.


  • #16
    catmelodian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭catmelodian


    the groutch wrote: »
    I know 100 times more about racing than a novice like yourself, don't you have any exams to be studying for?

    What?


  • #17
    x PyRo
    Moderators Posts: 8,835 ✭✭✭x PyRo


    dekbhoy wrote: »
    Excellent , well thought out mature post. pat on the back for you.

    Sorry Brian.


  • #18
    CS Hasuki
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭CS Hasuki


    Ok so you are being taxed on bets where the money you bet with has already been taxed.
    Tax on winnings? Then losses should be deductable.

    Hard to see this going through.... but never know.


  • #19
    thedini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭thedini


    CS Hasuki wrote: »
    Ok so you are being taxed on bets where the money you bet with has already been taxed.
    Tax on winnings? Then losses should be deductable.

    Hard to see this going through.... but never know.

    Aren't you taxed on nearly everthing that you purchase through VAT anyways.


  • #20
    CS Hasuki
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 383 ✭✭CS Hasuki


    thedini wrote: »
    Aren't you taxed on nearly everthing that you purchase through VAT anyways.

    Sure, but that is purchasing a product. Hand over your cash, you have a product.There is no risk involved, you could hand over the cash and get nothing in return when gambling.
    Why should someone be forced to risk their own cash and not receive 100% of the return, you could have ended up with nothing.
    They cannot argue that people who gamble online are not contributing tax, they are gambling with funds which have already been taxed.

    Why should I risk all my cash which I have already been taxed on, to fill the coffers of the government.
    If I loose I want to claim it against my winnings.

    If they tax the system, it needs to be fair.


  • #21
    thedini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 857 ✭✭✭thedini


    CS Hasuki wrote: »
    Sure, but that is purchasing a product. Hand over your cash, you have a product.There is no risk involved, you could hand over the cash and get nothing in return when gambling.
    Why should someone be forced to risk their own cash and not receive 100% of the return, you could have ended up with nothing.
    They cannot argue that people who gamble online are not contributing tax, they are gambling with funds which have already been taxed.

    Why should I risk all my cash which I have already been taxed on, to fill the coffers of the government.
    If I loose I want to claim it against my winnings.

    If they tax the system, it needs to be fair.

    But, you are purchasing a product, whilst it's not clearly tangible, it's a product nevertheless. You are paying for the bet, be it for the thrill/despair excitement it invokes, investment pruposes etc. If introduced as somebody else pointed out, it can only be introduced at the point of payment and not on winnings etc.


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  • #22
    bit of a bogey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭bit of a bogey


    the groutch wrote: »
    not gonna happen, ladbrokes and hills would threaten to pull out of ireland completely, and I can't even see Brian Cow-man let that many jobs go to the wall


    Come of it! No one would be pulling out of Ireland as a result of a tax on internet gambling. Ladbrokes and Hills shops already do pay tax. A TAX on internet bets isint going to cause any shops or jobs to move.

    This TAX needs to be introduced sooner rather than later. And this can be done. Not buying into people saying its impossible. The bookmaker will put up a fight of course but it can be done!


  • #23
    Wild_Dogger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Wild_Dogger


    So how and when is this going to be applied ?

    How much tax will be applied roughly ?

    And how could it be policed ?


  • #24
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Didnt the bookies set up their websites offshore to avoid the need to pay tax? How can the government claim tax on a service that is provided by a company that isnt registered in Ireland or will they just hit the punter?


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pity Cowen wasn't as clued into the economics of running a country when he was minister for finance as he seems to be with internet and telephone betting.

    Actually he seems to know f all about internet and telephone betting :eek:
    Much the same as the economics of running a country so.


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