VRT on BMW 8 series?

CaraFawn · 30-06-2010 10:59PM #1

Heya,

I do not seem to find the BMW 8 series from the VRT calculator?
Over the phone only I suppose?

What kind of VRT do I have to pay on a let say 1994 or earlier 840i? If anyone has some idea, I know some of you have one.

Thanks

eamon234 · 30-06-2010 11:06PM

Are you the guy that bought the one on Wheeler Dealers?;)

CaraFawn · 30-06-2010 11:12PM

eamon234 wrote: »

Are you the guy that bought the one on Wheeler Dealers?;)

No I have not bought anything yet.
Why, what's up with this guy?

unkel · 30-06-2010 11:20PM

CaraFawn wrote: »

Over the phone only I suppose?

I've never been able to phone the VRO and actually manage to speak to someone. I've emailed them a few times and the best result was a reply after about 2 weeks. The other emails were never answered.

What do we expect, eh? Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. A low level VRO officer would be on only about 40k-50k with a pension fund worth more than a million upon retirement.

People in the real (non-parasite) world would kill for a job with half those perks...

CaraFawn · 30-06-2010 11:21PM

unkel wrote: »

I've never been able to phone the VRO and actually manage to speak to someone. I've emailed them a few times and the best result was a reply after about 2 weeks. The other emails were never answered.

What do we expect, eh? Pay peanuts and you get monkeys. A low level VRO officer would be on only about 40k-50k with a pension fund worth more than a million upon retirement.

People in the real (non-parasite) world would kill for a job with half those perks...

Ok thanks for the input, but let's not start here...:p

Vertakill · 30-06-2010 11:31PM

I doubt it's too much.

My brother paid 5.5k on a 1993 and it was by far the most valuable. He'll probably be here once he sees the thread.

I'd imagine between 2.5-3.5k or thereabouts? That's an educated guess.

unkel · 30-06-2010 11:38PM

CaraFawn wrote: »

let's not start here...:p

You're right, sorry

Your best bet is to play safe, get your VRO quote before you buy the car and also get an insurance quote!

CaraFawn · 30-06-2010 11:39PM

Vertakill wrote: »

I doubt it's too much.

My brother paid 5.5k on a 1993 and it was by far the most valuable. He'll probably be here once he sees the thread.

I'd imagine between 2.5-3.5k or thereabouts? That's an educated guess.

Well I can grab a 1993 for like 3000-4000 euro. Which will require a lot of work and money to restore...
That would annoy me to have to pay 5000 euro to register it :mad:

Vertakill · 30-06-2010 11:41PM

CaraFawn wrote: »

Well I can grab a 1993 for like 3000-4000 euro. Which will require a lot of work and money to restore...
That would annoy me to have to pay 5000 euro to register it :mad:

I didn't say 5000 anywhere in my post?

5.5k was for a 1993 850CSi which is going to be the very top of the bunch and the most expensive.

I estimated that a 93 840i would be around 2500-3500.

And yeah, it sucks, but a lot of things in Ireland suck!

But as unkel says, don't leave it to chance. Get all the details of the car and present it to them in the VRT office and see what they come up with.

CaraFawn · 30-06-2010 11:42PM

unkel wrote: »

You're right, sorry

Your best bet is to play safe, get your VRO quote before you buy the car and also get an insurance quote!

No probs.

This is for a restoration/upgrade project, she won't be on the road for a year most likely. I am playing with the idea of fitting a M5 engine (e39). It has been done before. Nothing written in stone yet, but I would love doing that.

CaraFawn · 30-06-2010 11:43PM

Vertakill wrote: »

I didn't say 5000 anywhere in my post?

My bad you mentionned the price your bro paid for the car, I thought it was the VRT...

Vertakill · 30-06-2010 11:44PM

CaraFawn wrote: »

My bad you mentionned the price your bro paid for the car, I thought it was the VRT...

Yeah, it was.

5.5k (approx) was the price he had to pay for his VRT. But his VRT would be a lot more than yours because you're looking at the 840i and not the more valuable one that he bought.

I can see how this can look confusing though.

CaraFawn wrote: »

This is for a restoration/upgrade project, she won't be on the road for a year most likely. I am playing with the idea of fitting a M5 engine (e39). It has been done before. Nothing written in stone yet, but I would love doing that.

Sounds like a cool project too! Iirc those e39 m5 engines aren't too expensive to source either.

CaraFawn · 30-06-2010 11:46PM

Vertakill wrote: »

Yeah, it was.

5.5k (approx) was the price he had to pay for his VRT. But his VRT would be a lot more than yours because you're looking at the 840i and not the more valuable one that he bought.

Yep the CSI would be much more expensive alright.

Vertakill · 30-06-2010 11:55PM

CaraFawn wrote: »

This is for a restoration/upgrade project, she won't be on the road for a year most likely.

Now that I think of it, if you spotted a well priced one, I'd just buy it now and don't pay the VRT if it won't be on the road.

Then VRT it when it's roadworthy. The VRT will be cheaper in a years time as well.

As a side note, the different 8 series we looked at in Ireland were absolutely horrendous. Some of the worst kept cars we'd ever seen.

unkel · 01-07-2010 12:16AM

Vertakill wrote: »

Now that I think of it, if you spotted a well priced one, I'd just buy it now and don't pay the VRT if it won't be on the road.

Then VRT it when it's roadworthy. The VRT will be cheaper in a years time as well.

That's a bit tricky. VRT is due next day after importing the car (whether you have the car on the road or not), and even if you "hide" your newly imported car somewhere the law can't see it, they might ask questions and demand proof when you finally present the car to be taxed. As in payment details, flight details, ferry details, etc. Forewarned is forearmed is what I'm saying!

Vertakill · 01-07-2010 12:32AM

I don't think that's entirely true.

The fee for registering your imported car is based on you using it on public roads. Same goes for road tax.

Think about all the drift cars brought in from Japan on the ferries, or all the rally cars, or lads track cars... none of them are VRT'd because they're not going to ever be driven on a public road.

If you brought the car back on a trailer and left it in your garden (ie. not on a public road) then you've done nothing wrong whatsoever. If you leave it outside your house in a housing estate or something, then you'd be obliged to VRT and tax it.

Also, how would they ever know when you've brought the car in?

Voodoomelon · 01-07-2010 12:55AM

Going by the revenue website, that is not true.

You cannot buy a car from say the UK and leave it sitting unregistered out the back of your house for a year. It MUST be registered and VRT paid by the end of the next working day that it enters the country, regardless of whether your plan on driving it or not.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/vrt1.html#section2

Vertakill · 01-07-2010 01:32AM

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You cannot buy a car from say the UK and leave it sitting unregistered out the back of your house for a year.

You cannot? It's pretty easy actually. :P Just drive it home onto your property and put a cover on it... done. Take the reg plate off if you're really paranoid!
Nobody has any record of the car ever entering the country up until you go to VRT it (provided you've genuinely kept it off the road).

You'd be a fool to VRT it the day after you brought it into the country if you had no intention of driving it for 12 months.

Anyways, this statement is pretty vague. I'm pretty sure that this comment is referring to cars imported with the intention of being sold or driven on public roads:

VRT wrote:

"If you bring a vehicle into Ireland from abroad you must register it and pay VRT by the end of the next working day following its arrival in the State."

The Commission said that the 24-hour period being imposed by Revenue Officials would in its opinion be illegal and that the European Court of Justice has already ruled on a similar case previously.

Followed by a response from an EU official:

Laslo Kovacs, the Commissioner in charge of taxation and customs wrote:

"The Commission agrees with the Honourable Member that the requirement to register a vehicle within 24 hours should be considered to be a period that is so short that it makes it impossible or excessively difficult to comply with the requirements imposed."

Especially considering the VRT office is only open on weekdays for 5 hours and 15 minutes, and they're closed for lunch AND they're closed by 4pm.
That 24hour thing is, and always was, complete bs.

So, don't take everything you read on the VRT's website as gospel.

And one other thing:

The European Commission has told Fine Gael MEP for Ireland North West Jim Higgins that the Irish residents must be given at least seven days to register cars recently imported from the UK and elsewhere. The Commission also said that drivers must be given at least one warning before vehicles are impounded.

I'm not 100% sure on how reliable these sources are, but they match the exact circumstances that my sister was presented with 2 months ago with an un-VRT'd BMW.

Matt Simis · 01-07-2010 08:30AM

unkel wrote: »

That's a bit tricky. VRT is due next day after importing the car (whether you have the car on the road or not), and even if you "hide" your newly imported car somewhere the law can't see it, they might ask questions and demand proof when you finally present the car to be taxed. As in payment details, flight details, ferry details, etc. Forewarned is forearmed is what I'm saying!

VRT is a payable on Road going cars. If the car isnt on the road, then you dont and cannot pay VRT. Way back when, my CSi got impounded (due to someone else deciding to go on a joyride through Dublin City centre) but I was able to prove it was effectively off the road for the months previous and merely had to pay the VRT (no penalty). The Revenue office agreed with me (obviously) and advised that unlike what the VRO told me, if your car is non-roadworthy they can and should give you a form from the VRO stating you tried to pay VRT. Such a form/declaration exists.

I went to the VRO months before to pay the VRT and they would not allow me to VRT a non-road worthy car, but did not give me this form (and I even asked them if it existed). I had however an email thread with them to prove everything. Unfortunately the Garda that impounded the car was not, shall we say, "mentally flexible" enough to be bothered to listen to this (nor was I there in person to make the case, I had driven to work in an entirely more crappy car as the 8er wasnt meant to be driven).

The Revenue officials were somewhat annoyed at the VRO and Garda for what ended up being a massive waste of their time. I didnt even have to pay the VRT immediately, was given 7 days after I was given the car back to do so.

In Summary:
Car off the road due to non roadworthy'ness= no VRT, but go to the VRO and declare it as such, get some form of paperwork
Garda = Not aware of and doesnt care about VRO and their BS
VRO = Not aware of how to actually do their job
Revenue = Quite good all round

Also, VRT should be between 2-4k, email them and ask. I note they updated the VRT Calc online and removed the 8 series! :pac::rolleyes:
When you email them they should add it back.

PS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ia7WbURZII&feature=player_embedded

E39MSport · 01-07-2010 11:20AM

I paid over 4k in VRT for 1991 850i a few months ago.

edit: - ... That was just the beginning ......

CaraFawn · 01-07-2010 05:46PM

E39MSport wrote: »

I paid over 4k in VRT for 1991 850i a few months ago.

edit: - ... That was just the beginning ......

That's scary lol, thanks for the feedback
A 840i will be less I would guess.

unkel · 01-07-2010 07:48PM

Matt Simis wrote: »

a non-road worthy car

We're not talking about non-road worthy car here

If you import a car, the VRT is due the next day.

Vertakill wrote: »

You cannot? It's pretty easy actually. :P

Yeah and you can steal something from the shops easily enough too. As long as you don't get caught, eh?

Matt Simis · 01-07-2010 08:00PM

unkel wrote: »

We're not talking about non-road worthy car here
If you import a car, the VRT is due the next day.

Given the nature of the 8er, it could be argued quite successfully that any model you buy and drive home isnt roadworthy till something or another is replaced. :pac:
The issue is "road worthy" is vague enough it can be applied to many used cars, certainly older ones.

galwaytt · 01-07-2010 11:30PM

unkel wrote: »

We're not talking about non-road worthy car here

If you import a car, the VRT is due the next day.

I'm not so sure: it should only apply if the car is to be used in a public place. And there used to be even exemptions for this (e.g. 'temporary' importation of, for example, Rally cars...). It involved a particular form iirc.......

CaraFawn · 01-07-2010 11:53PM

Well even if the car is never to be used on public roads, let say you build a race car to use in Mondello and all, you would still have some sort of ownership document don't you? So it would need to be registered somehow?

unkel · 02-07-2010 12:19AM

Lads! Some of you are starting to sound like tax dodgers. It's ok to minimise your tax bill by deducting what ever is reasonable from your tax bill as costs, but I'm getting the impression that some people here are evading taxes. Best place for serious big money tax dodgers is in the Joy - happy slopping out

Vertakill · 02-07-2010 01:34AM

unkel wrote: »

Yeah and you can steal something from the shops easily enough too. As long as you don't get caught, eh?

Come on, let's not be sensationalistic here.
My point was that you pay the VRT when the car is roadworthy (and when you plan on driving it) and not when it's sitting in pieces in your garage.

unkel wrote: »

Lads! Some of you are starting to sound like tax dodgers. It's ok to minimise your tax bill by deducting what ever is reasonable from your tax bill as costs, but I'm getting the impression that some people here are evading taxes. Best place for serious big money tax dodgers is in the Joy - happy slopping out

This is where the debate lies though.
You think that anyone who imports a car with no intention of bringing onto a public road has to pay VRT... and anyone that doesn't is tax dodging.

ronac · 03-07-2010 09:43AM

I imported a 1995 840 in January '09 and the VRT was €3,750. You will be paying the full VRT rate of 36% of the value of the car.

What Revenue do, as you know, is take the average price for similar cars and apply the rate based on the emissions. In the case of the 8 series it is the full rate. There is I understand an appeal process if you think the VRT is too high. If there is an mechanism to reduce the VRT payable due to the condition of the car (I'm not sure if there is), Revenue would have to inspect the car. So it's a bit chicken and egg, you may not know the final liability until you buy it and they inspect it.

As for paying the VRT, legislation was introduced last year which provides a penalty system for non payment within 24 hours of importation. They will apply a penalty of I think 0.1% on a daily basis of the VRT until the date of payment. May not seem much, but it adds up if they catch you out.

These cars are absolutely fantastic to drive but be warned they are very, very expensive to run. My missus is always on to me about getting rid of it because of the cost, but changes her mind every time we go off on a jaunt!

If you're buying a clapped out one and have to replace a lot of parts, you will, I guarantee it, spend a whole lot of money. So you might be better off buying one that's road worthy or in better condition than the one you're looking at, for a bit more money as it might work out cheaper in the long run. Also these cars have a number of faults, best to do a bit of research on those before you buy.

Happy motoring, and you won't be disappointed.

E39MSport · 04-07-2010 08:23AM

ronac wrote: »

I imported a 1995 840 in January '09 and the VRT was €3,750. You will be paying the full VRT rate of 36% of the value of the car.

What Revenue do, as you know, is take the average price for similar cars and apply the rate based on the emissions. In the case of the 8 series it is the full rate. There is I understand an appeal process if you think the VRT is too high. If there is an mechanism to reduce the VRT payable due to the condition of the car (I'm not sure if there is), Revenue would have to inspect the car. So it's a bit chicken and egg, you may not know the final liability until you buy it and they inspect it.

As for paying the VRT, legislation was introduced last year which provides a penalty system for non payment within 24 hours of importation. They will apply a penalty of I think 0.1% on a daily basis of the VRT until the date of payment. May not seem much, but it adds up if they catch you out.

These cars are absolutely fantastic to drive but be warned they are very, very expensive to run. My missus is always on to me about getting rid of it because of the cost, but changes her mind every time we go off on a jaunt!

If you're buying a clapped out one and have to replace a lot of parts, you will, I guarantee it, spend a whole lot of money. So you might be better off buying one that's road worthy or in better condition than the one you're looking at, for a bit more money as it might work out cheaper in the long run. Also these cars have a number of faults, best to do a bit of research on those before you buy.

Happy motoring, and you won't be disappointed.

Hi.

Not sure I'm with you there. Relatiely speaking they are not that much more expensive than any other 4/5/6 l vehicle in terms of running costs assuming the car is mechanically sound.

What faults are you referring to? I'm intrigued. There certainly are Idiosyncrasies and common problems on older vehicles but I can't think of any faults per say.

CaraFawn · 04-07-2010 09:46AM

E39MSport wrote: »

Hi.

Not sure I'm with you there. Relatiely speaking they are not that much more expensive than any other 4/5/6 l vehicle in terms of running costs assuming the car is mechanically sound.

What faults are you referring to? I'm intrigued. There certainly are Idiosyncrasies and common problems on older vehicles but I can't think of any faults per say.

They would be more expensive to maintain, for instance you have 8 sparks, 8 coils, 2 head gaskets etc.
From a suspension point of view part are more expensive than a 3/5 series.
Plus the engine has some known/common issues, like the chain guide that desintegrates, etc.
Parts are bigger, take the water pump alone, thus they cost more.
Yes a V8 cost more to maintain that a I4/I6

Now you can save money by buying aftermarket of course. Behr, Sachs etc...

And petrol wise, they do drink more of course...

E39MSport · 05-07-2010 07:15AM

CaraFawn wrote: »

They would be more expensive to maintain, for instance you have 8 sparks, 8 coils, 2 head gaskets etc.
From a suspension point of view part are more expensive than a 3/5 series.
Plus the engine has some known/common issues, like the chain guide that desintegrates, etc.
Parts are bigger, take the water pump alone, thus they cost more.
Yes a V8 cost more to maintain that a I4/I6

Now you can save money by buying aftermarket of course. Behr, Sachs etc...

And petrol wise, they do drink more of course...

Fair enough but factored in over time that doesn't make it relatively Very Very expensive to similar motors. If w're talking v8/v12 in general over standard cars then fair enough but the poster appears to me to be referring to the (these cars) 8 series in particular.

VRT on BMW 8 series?

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