The Problem with Ireland...

MrDarcy · 02-07-2010 09:58AM #1

I've just read this article in the Irish Times and I've come to the sorry conclusion that this article really portrays what has gone wrong with this country, the rampant exuberance, the addiction to brands and names, the failure to cope with failure, private members clubs, etc...

DEVELOPER AND hotelier Hugh O’Regan has told the High Court he almost suffered a mental breakdown last year when a receiver was appointed to his business empire.

Mr O’Regan (47) said he was now living on €3,000 a month from the Morrison Hotel and a small amount of rental income. His wife was working, he added.

He said that with the move by Anglo Irish Bank to have a receiver appointed, “everything else came down”, including a project to build a hotel in Kilternan, Co Dublin, for which he received a €180 million loan from the Irish Nationwide just last year.

He said he was very concerned about the future of the Morrison Hotel and it was a very emotional issue for him. “I had designed it with John Rocha . . . All I want is that it is treated with some level of dignity.”

He felt he was trying to fight “against a big corporation that has just swallowed me up and spit me out. I’m trying to fight for survival.”

He was giving evidence in a case where the receiver appointed by the banks, Martin Ferris, is trying to get €5.4 million he says is owed in rent by the operator of the hotel, Morrison Hotel Ltd (MHL). If he wins the case it is likely Mr Ferris will get control of the hotel.

Mr O’Regan and MHL are defending the case against Mr Ferris by saying the company had arrangements with its landlord over rent credits and a rent holiday. Mr O’Regan was the managing partner in the partnership that owned the hotel.

He said he made the agreements with himself. “I am the landlord. I’m the tenant. I’m talking to me. I can’t say it is any more formal than that.”

Mr Justice Brian McGovern said Mr O’Regan was trying to project himself “as some sort of ignorant simpleton” but he could not be one given the “business empire” he had once run. He said the MHL defence was “the brainchild of Mr O’Regan, and I use that word advisedly”. Barrister Rossa Fanning, for Mr Ferris, said Mr O’Regan’s evidence was “untrue, made up and lies”. Mr O’Regan replied: “I would say it’s not.”

Mr O’Regan said he had been a customer of Anglo for 19 years but he and the bank had “a slight falling out” over a loan in October 2008 to develop the former Hibernian Club on St Stephen’s Green into an exclusive gentleman’s club.

The bank issued €22.5 million to Clubko Ltd for the project even though it no longer had confidence in the business plan. It felt it was committed to the loan. Clubko is now in liquidation.

On July 24th, 2009, Mr Ferris was appointed to Clubko, the Thomas Read group (owner of MHL), and the owners of the Morrison Hotel building, by Anglo which was seeking repayment of €85 million.

Mr Fanning said Mr O’Regan had spoken of almost having a nervous breakdown that weekend, but he had also instructed solicitors to make an emergency examinership petition to the courts. Mr O’Regan said he had secured a €180 million loan last year for his hotel project in Kilternan, Co Dublin. The case continues today.

"I'm living on 3,000 a month from the Morission Hotel, I designed it with John Rocha"...

Good for you and John Rocha, when a receiver moves in to a situation they are not interested about you or John Rocha or your dignity, they are interested in working for their client, which is always the bank that lent you too much money. 3K a month, it's much better than the 784 Euro a month a lot of people are on at the moment...

It's a sad state of affairs in this country when you see that this is what passes for entrepreneurship in Ireland in the 21st Century, "Me and John Rocha designed it" and "Please Mr. Receiver think of my dignity"...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0702/1224273806640.html

maninasia · 02-07-2010 10:32AM

I'm trying to get my head around the size of those loans.

180 million euro for a hotel in ....Kilternan!
23 million euro for a private members club.

Were they on crack? Both of them, the bank and the client?

Liam Byrne · 02-07-2010 10:41AM

So he's "living on €3,000 per month" ? The poor sod!

Is that pre-tax or net of tax ?

Because he's living on twice what I'm on, or more!

And I didn't gamble on pie-in-the-sky and saddle the taxpayer with a massive debt!

George Orwell 1982 · 02-07-2010 10:42AM

Someone coming out of college with a PhD would find it very hard to earn 3k a month in the current climate. He should get dole like everyone else.

Cheapo · 02-07-2010 12:33PM

this is a Joke.....3k per month......I live on much less than that and im paying a fortune to the banks every month due to a failed business.....I accept that was the risk that i took when the loans were taking out...and I'm now paying them back in full....no bail out for me...and I don't want one....he had better learn to live with what he now has and make the lifestyle changes necessary...i now cycle to work instead of taking the car to save on petrol...now shop in aldi etc etc.....Come down to reality mate!! Your BUST!!!!

kuntboy · 02-07-2010 12:43PM

including a project to build a hotel in Kilternan, Co Dublin, for which he received a €180 million loan from the Irish Nationwide just last year.

Wtf?

BehindTheScenes · 02-07-2010 01:11PM

I'm surprised no one has asked but where is the Kiltiernan money. I don't think the hotel was built so there must be some of the €180 million floating around.........somewhere.

Scarab80 · 02-07-2010 01:28PM

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

I'm surprised no one has asked but where is the Kiltiernan money. I don't think the hotel was built so there must be some of the €180 million floating around.........somewhere.

Hotel was partially completed, money is gone and development is now owned by INBS/State

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2010/04/25/story48837.asp

maninasia · 02-07-2010 02:06PM

So the loan for the hotel was used for other purposes or what?
It also looks like the amount of the loan was too much even for Celtic Tiger Ireland for a hotel in Wicklow. Surely such a loan could never have been paid back by normal operations of a hotel?

Is there a case for fraud to be answered? I think the money trail should be checked carefully.

02-07-2010 02:09PM

money was given out like smarties with little or no checking and based on crazy inflated property prices

topper75 · 02-07-2010 02:19PM

One of the most amazing articles I have read in quite a while, for all the reasons that the OP and other posters above have outlined.

I have no further comment to add, only that I am flabbergasted. I feel I have to post something to express my utter bewilderment.

I am not holding my breath for redress though, the judge's admonishment notwithstanding. We know Ireland and how it works at this stage. Republic in name only.

MrDarcy · 02-07-2010 02:52PM

OP here again, this is the first time I've actually looked at the figures involved and lost my breath at what has come out. You'd have to ask how many John Rocha's, solicitor's, estate agents and other Celtic Tiger high flyers had their noses in the trough of this transaction for the numbers to come out as they clearly do for building a poxy hotel in Wicklow.

simplistic2 · 02-07-2010 06:08PM

The beauty of it all is that as long is the euro is kept as the centralized currency
and enforced by the state the directors of the banks know that they can dish out these loans all day long and bailouts are just around the corner.

fontanalis · 02-07-2010 06:37PM

dan_d · 02-07-2010 08:31PM

fontanalis, you've made my evening!!!

I purposely did not read that article in the paper today, after I saw the first line. How dare he. How dare he stand in front of a court and judge, and essentially a whole country, and expect us to buy his sob story.

The man has not got a leg to stand on. In fact he hasn't even got a toe to stand on. The simple answer to him is "tough sh*t". You screwed up. And furthermore, you played a part in screwing up everyone else's lives while you were at it. He should be counting himself lucky he even gets the 3k a month, by rights he should be handing that over to the state aswell.

It's time this guy and his associates were brought to account for the part they've played in all this. You cannot ride roughshod over a country like that and expect to get away with it.

MrDarcy · 02-07-2010 11:27PM

dan_d wrote: »

fontanalis, you've made my evening!!!

I purposely did not read that article in the paper today, after I saw the first line. How dare he. How dare he stand in front of a court and judge, and essentially a whole country, and expect us to buy his sob story.

The man has not got a leg to stand on. In fact he hasn't even got a toe to stand on. The simple answer to him is "tough sh*t". You screwed up. And furthermore, you played a part in screwing up everyone else's lives while you were at it. He should be counting himself lucky he even gets the 3k a month, by rights he should be handing that over to the state aswell.

It's time this guy and his associates were brought to account for the part they've played in all this. You cannot ride roughshod over a country like that and expect to get away with it.

+1 Dan. What spurred me on to start this thread was that his attitude/legal strategy seemed to be:

"I'll turn up in court, claim medical disadvantage (by saying I nearly had a nervous breakdown), I'll drop a few high profile names in there for the judge in case he happens to be involved the same gentleman's club or maybe if I mention John Rocha I'll be seen as being in the higher flight path of the very elite who ought to be protected at all costs from loss of dignity, never mind financial loss...

SkepticOne · 02-07-2010 11:42PM

It must be hard for him living on 3K a month like some loser.

jock101 · 06-07-2010 01:47AM

Golden circle and the Privileged Classes, has been like that since DeValera ruled and nothing has changed! Republic my eye, Poor idiots that fought and died for nothing, oh sorry for this Paddy Whackery! 3k a month! lol:rolleyes: The Irish deserve what they get, you reap what you sow!

Diarmuid · 06-07-2010 07:16AM

I must get a photo of the Kilternan development the next time I am passing. It's a huge monument to the stupidity of the Irish property bubble.

scr123 · 06-07-2010 10:20AM

Nothing wrong with Ireland that a period in the doldrums will not cure. People like to waffle on but either are not aware or refuse to accept that boom/boost has been economic reality for 200 years at least. Billions and billions were borrowed to expand the economy with improvements in infrastructure that were never contemplated in the past. Its pay back time now and when that is sorted out it will be time to start another boom. For goodness sake will people ever take an interest in learning basic economic history instead of living their lives in constant depression

Head The Wall · 06-07-2010 10:23AM

This is what it should look like PRJ_SPEC_MN_kilternancountryclub1%C2%AC01.jpg

This is what it looks like now, supposedly it's 90% completed. Still seems to be a lot of holes in the envelope

RichardAnd · 06-07-2010 10:39AM

scr123 wrote: »

Nothing wrong with Ireland that a period in the doldrums will not cure. People like to waffle on but either are not aware or refuse to accept that boom/boost has been economic reality for 200 years at least. Billions and billions were borrowed to expand the economy with improvements in infrastructure that were never contemplated in the past. Its pay back time now and when that is sorted out it will be time to start another boom. For goodness sake will people ever take an interest in learning basic economic history instead of living their lives in constant depression

A good point and you're correct. Did anyone know that Mozart found himself stuck for work during his lifetime because there was a minor recession going on at the end of the 18th century?

Anyway, This thread should be re-titled because there is no problem with Ireland. Ireland is a land mass on the edge of Europe, every problem we have comes not from her but from her occupants; the Irish. We're the problem.

Head the Wall, where abouts is that development? It illustrates how bad architecture during the boom actually was. You have a nice, probably well build, old house onto which has been grafted an arrangement of cardboard boxes. Going off track a bit but has anyone wondered just how bad all the steel and glass buildings will look in 30 years time?

Head The Wall · 06-07-2010 11:21AM

Thats the kiltiernan House Elephant

kuntboy · 06-07-2010 11:33AM

How the hell did they give planning permission for that eyesore?

The planners have destroyed the countryside, idiots.

RichardAnd · 06-07-2010 11:40AM

kuntboy wrote: »

How the hell did they give planning permission for that eyesore?

The planners have destroyed the countryside, idiots.

A word in a mouth, a coin in a palm?

dan_d · 06-07-2010 12:06PM

Wow.
That looks awful. I think it's time for me to get involved in the demolition business...I doubt there's too many people that would be upset to see that thing go.

The Problem with Ireland...

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