Citizen Kane - (in your opinion) overrated?

Richard Dower · 20-09-2010 12:01AM #1

Kinda like Metropolis, eh? [edit, the purpose of this thread is to provoke debate, please note i am NOT stating this movie or Metropolis is overrated in my opinion....i'm simply asking if others THINK it's overrated, if they do please give your reasoning for such - thank you]

mikemac · 20-09-2010 12:06AM

I would say no

Some of the techniques used were ground breaking for the time

Had relevance at the time with the connection to William Randolph Hearst

And it was a good story, can you tell me you know what Rosebud was until it was revealed?

Ahead of its time
It looks dated but realy OP, are you comparing it modern day CGI that a Michael Bay film would have

johnny_ultimate · 20-09-2010 12:06AM

Because you can just make a sweeping statement like that without backing it up at all ey :rolleyes:

Go back to 1941. Look at the stuff that came before it. Now look at the technical and storytelling advancements that Welles achieved. It was one of the first films (Metropolis is probably another) that the mise en scene was carefully considered, and many of the camera techniques used were literally revolutionary. Storytelling, it abandons a linear narratives and uses techniques such as flashbacks, multiple narrators, foreshadowing etc... expertly.

It looks dated, like every film from it's era now looks dated. But when I watched Citizen Kane for the first time I was mighty impressed, most of it totally standing the test of time. It is many times more intelligent and cinematically competent than the vast majority of films released today. It was a revelation at the time, and remains a stunning achievement.

So, Richard, why exactly is it overrated, dare I ask?

Richard Dower · 20-09-2010 12:20AM

I want to point out - i'm not saying it's overrated, i'm ASKING what others think.

Deliverance · 20-09-2010 12:25AM

Kane was amazing. Not over rated at all. It is in a league of it's own and a groundbreaking piece of movie making for it's time technically, politically and artistically.

Citizen Kane is one of the greatest movies ever made. The release of the snow-globe from the dying hands of the 'richest' man on the planet sparks a journalistic investigation unto the meaning of his dying word, 'Rosebud'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jipboWI9uiE

It is more than a movie it is a journey into human nature.

mikemac · 20-09-2010 12:25AM

Isn't the OP supposed to offer their own opinion?

What do you think Richard of the film?

Richard Dower · 20-09-2010 12:30AM

^ i will, in time....when i hear what others say.

johnny_ultimate · 20-09-2010 12:31AM

Richard Dower wrote: »

I want to point out - i'm not saying it's overrated, i'm ASKING what others think.

Yes, and we're asking you what you think. You can't just come in making sweeping and controversial statements without being willing to participate.

Here, for example, is a long discussion on Kane's film-making achievements, and a fine example of why it is far from overrated. Care to suggest any reasons why it is, as you say, overrated?

Deliverance · 20-09-2010 12:33AM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Because you can just make a sweeping statement like that without backing it up at all ey :rolleyes:

Go back to 1941. Look at the stuff that came before it. Now look at the technical and storytelling advancements that Welles achieved. It was one of the first films (Metropolis is probably another) that the mise en scene was carefully considered, and many of the camera techniques used were literally revolutionary. Storytelling, it abandons a linear narratives and uses techniques such as flashbacks, multiple narrators, foreshadowing etc... expertly.

It looks dated, like every film from it's era now looks dated. But when I watched Citizen Kane for the first time I was mighty impressed, most of it totally standing the test of time. It is many times more intelligent and cinematically competent than the vast majority of films released today. It was a revelation at the time, and remains a stunning achievement.

So, Richard, why exactly is it overrated, dare I ask?

Welles was the first to use deep focus as well. Being trained in the theatre he brought this to the movie as well. It is worth watching this in the movie.

Also as mentioned the movie flashbacks were all stories from different perspectives from different people in the 'Hearsts' life as they remembered him. It was a puzzle all the way through brilliantly directed, filmed and realised to the viewer through the journalist / viewer.

Brilliant film, pure brilliant.

krudler · 20-09-2010 12:35AM

Citizen Kane is one of the greatest movies ever made. The release of the snow-globe from the dying hands of the 'richest' man on the planet sparks a journalistic investigation unto the meaning of his dying word, 'Rosebud'

Massive plot hole too considering nobody is present to hear him say it :pac:

Richard Dower · 20-09-2010 12:37AM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Yes, and we're asking you what you think. You can't just come in making sweeping and controversial statements without being willing to participate.

Here, for example, is a long discussion on Kane's film-making achievements, and a fine example of why it is far from overrated. Care to suggest any reasons why it is, as you say, overrated?

I'm NOT making any sweeping statements, i'm ASKING a question...is Citizen Kane overrated?, that's not me making sweeping statements at all.

johnny_ultimate · 20-09-2010 12:38AM

Richard Dower wrote: »

I'm NOT making any sweeping statements, i'm ASKING a question...is Citizen Kane overrated?, that's not me making sweeping statements at all.

Really?

Kinda like Metropolis, eh?

Deliverance · 20-09-2010 12:39AM

krudler wrote: »

Massive plot hole too considering nobody is present to hear him say it :pac:

Massive *facepalm.

Richard Dower · 20-09-2010 12:39AM

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Really?

Giving an example of another critically lauded movie is all.

indough · 20-09-2010 12:41AM

it was superbly made (for its day), but it is fairl boring in my opinion...still better than a lot of modern movies but so is having teeth pulled

Deliverance · 20-09-2010 12:44AM

indough wrote: »

it was superbly made (for its day), but it is fairl boring in my opinion...still better than a lot of modern movies but so is having teeth pulled

Philistine;)

krudler · 20-09-2010 12:46AM

Deliverance wrote: »

Massive *facepalm.

indough · 20-09-2010 12:47AM

not saying its as bad as having teeth pulled although it sounds that way haha

i thought it was a good movie but it just didnt appeal to my personal taste

ive always seen it as one of those movies that a lot of people just say they like because they feel theyre supposed to but...that wouldnt be the case in here as most film forumites would probably be aware of the reasons why it was groundbreaking and worthy of praise

krudler · 20-09-2010 12:50AM

Its an important movie, but its boring how often people praise it as the greatest movie ever made, theres no such thing. Groundbreaking? yes. Visionary? yes. But I agree its one of those "but you HAVE to like it!" movies, I've only ever seen it once the whole way through as I felt I should watch it, wouldnt mind seeing it again but its not something I've ever been in a rush to see again.

indough · 20-09-2010 12:52AM

the most intriguing thing about it in my opinion was the fact it was ever released given the subject matter

Richard Dower · 20-09-2010 12:54AM

I edited my original post to avoid confusion...and yes, i will give my opinion on CK.

Richard Dower · 20-09-2010 12:55AM

indough wrote: »

the most intriguing thing about it in my opinion was the fact it was ever released given the subject matter

It was my understanding Hearst did everything possible to try get the movie axed.

indough · 20-09-2010 12:56AM

Richard Dower wrote: »

It was my understanding Hearst did everything possible to try get the movie axed.

well he did yeah thats what i meant

Deliverance · 20-09-2010 12:58AM

indough wrote: »

not saying its as bad as having teeth pulled although it sounds that way haha

i thought it was a good movie but it just didnt appeal to my personal taste

ive always seen it as one of those movies that a lot of people just say they like because they feel theyre supposed to but...that wouldnt be the case in here as most film forumites would probably be aware of the reasons why it was groundbreaking and worthy of praise

Fair play everyone has different tastes and all that. Personally though I have found references to Kane in todays more 'entertaining' movies. 'Inception' is an example.

I suppose Kane really needs a kind of lecture / preperation before watching it to really appreciate what it is all about. In todays quick fix culture that is not always possible thereby the message of the movie is easilly missed and left unappreciated as a result.

Deliverance · 20-09-2010 01:00AM

Anyone remember his grand-daughter Pattie Hearst?

indough · 20-09-2010 01:01AM

yeah i watched it as part of a film course but i still found it boring...apart from its obvious technical greatness and creativity which is still influential today as you said

there are lots of influential movies i think were very well made but i dont like them, for example triumph of the will, etc

johnny_ultimate · 20-09-2010 01:01AM

You know, I haven't watched it in a good few years, well before the time I would have cared about anything like deep focus. But when I watched it when I was around 15/16, I was genuinely surprised at how entertaining it actually was. It's a very good story, one that personally kept me involved throughout. I only watched twenty minutes on TV one day, and I went out and bought it the next I was so intrigued. It's like 2001, another film I've often seen dismissed as boring: for me though, these films are extremely entertaining even if you're not interested in the more technical side of them. I haven't watched it since that initial watch, will do during the week if I get a chance, with far more knowledge of what actually makes it so important.

Oh, and the original Welles War of the Worlds broadcast is officially my favourite DVD extra ever (until I realised it was online!).

indough · 20-09-2010 01:09AM

yeah i like the radio broadcast, got the full recording a couple of years ago

Citizen Kane - (in your opinion) overrated?

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