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MEPs attack Irish corporate tax rate

  • 30-11-2010 05:47PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭


    A row has broken out in the European Parliament over Ireland's 12.5% corporate tax rate.
    It has emerged that eight mostly French and German MEPs have issued a declaration attacking Ireland's corporate tax rate and calling for a minimum EU-wide corporate tax rate of 25%.
    What has heightened the dispute is the fact that the eight MEPs are all co-ordinators for the different political groupings in the parliament and are, as such, representatives for those groupings on an influential parliamentary committee.
    The declaration invites signatures from other MEPs and if it can gather the support of 350 MEPs, it then becomes the position of the European Parliament.
    The statement claims that European taxpayers and citizens have been put at risk 'in order to stabilise a financial system which has been profiting from the exceptionally low Irish corporation tax rate of 12.5%...'
    It goes on to suggest that Ireland's corporate tax rate is unfair and goes against the spirit of European solidarity, especially given the fact Ireland is receiving a bailout.
    The declaration concludes: 'We urge the European Commission to advance on the dossier of a Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base. We urge the European Commission, the Eurogroup and its members to ensure that the corporation tax rate will be increased to the average EU level of 25% in a spirit of solidarity.'
    Irish MEPs are understood to be furious at the declaration given that, as co-ordinators on the Economic and Monetary Affairs Committee (ECON), they technically represent the same political groups of which Irish MEPs are members.
    A spokesman for the influential ECON committee acknowledged the dispute, but insisted that the MEPs had issued the declaration in their personal capacity, and not as co-ordinators.
    But this has been disputed by Fine Gael MEP Gay Mitchell.
    It is understood Irish MEPs are to raise the matter with their own political groupings.
    This morning the EU Commissioner for Taxation Algirdas Šemeta addressed the ECON committee to set out his work plan for 2011.
    The European Commission is planning to propose a harmonisation of the corporate tax base. Known as the Common Consolidated Corporate Tax Base (CCCTB), it foresees a single set of rules to clarify in which of the 27 member states multinational companies and SMEs should have their profits declared for taxation purposes.
    However, a spokeswoman for the Commission told RTÉ News that the Commission 'has absolutely no intention of introducing a minimum corporate tax rate of 25pc. It is not even in our competence under the European treaties to do so.'
    Any Commission proposals concerning taxation, either the CCCTB or Corporate Tax, require unanimity, so Ireland retains a veto in this area.
    The MEPs declaration was signed by the following: Jean-Paul Gauzes (EPP), Udo Bullmann (S&D), Sylvie Goulard (ALDE), Sven Giegold (Greens/EFA), Burkhard Balz (EPP), Leonardo Dominici (S&D), Wolf Klinz (ALDE) and Pascal Canfin (Greens/EFA).
    Such a declaration is open to signatures for a three-month period. It appears unlikely the declaration would win the support of 350 MEPs, but it highlights the growing tensions over Ireland's corporate tax rate now that Ireland is receiving an EU bailout.

    Okay I've been pretty much against these threads but I think this is a pretty big one. They, 8 MEPs (French and German) have demanded that the EU Wide-Corporate tax be raised to 25%.. Thats us... from 12.5% to 25%.

    If they can get 350 members to sign it. It then becomes the position of the European parliament.. If that happens, we are actually finished.. There's absolutely no reason for any companies to come near this place with a barge pole.. Unlikely as it is.

    Just the start of **** things to come, probably. Take to the streets to protest again, IMO!


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,467 ✭✭✭Wazdakka


    Ah Shíte..

    :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 458 ✭✭Craebear


    **** em. Lets leave the EU. If that fails, emigrate to Norway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Sykk wrote: »
    If that happens, we are actually finished.

    If it does, maybe we are.

    On the positive side, so are they.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 92 ✭✭FF and proud


    Ah sure tis a disgrace that is, sure there'll be no work here in a few years and the young peoples will be travellin out to America and Australia again. Shockin stuff this altogether.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    However, a spokeswoman for the Commission told RTÉ News that the Commission 'has absolutely no intention of introducing a minimum corporate tax rate of 25pc. It is not even in our competence under the European treaties to do so.'
    Any Commission proposals concerning taxation, either the CCCTB or Corporate Tax, require unanimity, so Ireland retains a veto in this area.
    Did you skip over that bit? :confused:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    We have a Veto on it, thankfully. Then again knowing our gutless, useless politicians they might not use that Veto.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Just talking about it on RTE radio, its a crock of BS. All 27 countries would have to vote to change the rate and UK/Dutch/Danes won't do that not to mention the likes of Latvia.

    fuc k off greens in Germany and France.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    Sykk wrote: »
    If they can get 350 members to sign it. It then becomes the position of the European parliament.. If that happens, we are actually finished.. There's absolutely no reason for any companies to come near this place with a barge pole.. Unlikely as it is.

    Just the start of **** things to come, probably. Take to the streets to protest again, IMO!
    You don't seem to have a full understanding as to the workings, and powers, of the European Parliament. If they get the 350 signatures, and if it was to become the position of the European Parliament, then that would mean...... nothing. It would just be the position of the European Parliament. They have lots of positions on lots of things. They have no powers, or say, in the area of taxation. Even if all the governments agreed to remove the unanimous requirement for taxation, it still wouldn't be the Parliament that decides anything via qualified majority, it would be the national governments. Currently though, taxation requires unanimous decisions in order to be applied Europe wide, and that isn't going to happen any time soon, even if the Irish government wanted it to happen!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,751 ✭✭✭Saila


    ask JHR to fix it for ye ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,077 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    mike65 wrote: »
    fuc k off greens in Germany and France.

    And the Greens in Ireland, you sell-out bastards.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    The politics forum is thataway...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭epgc3fyqirnbsx


    They can't touch our rate, that was specifically written into the treaties. It's all down to whether our politicians have the balls to tell them to eff off. If we lose that then we are truly screwed.

    And I love the way these French and Germans seem to forget the fact that we are an island off the edge of Europe and being in such a peripheral location is a big disadvantage. We have to do something to attract business and investment. Nothing stopping them from lowering their own corporation tax anyway.

    This is one issue that would have me on the streets


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,581 ✭✭✭✭TheZohanS


    They can't touch our rate, that was specifically written into the treaties. It's all down to whether our politicians have the balls to tell them to eff off. If we lose that then we are truly screwed.

    And I love the way these French and Germans seem to forget the fact that we are an island off the edge of Europe and being in such a peripheral location is a big disadvantage. We have to do something to attract business and investment. Nothing stopping them from lowering their own corporation tax anyway.

    This is one issue that would have me on the streets

    Prostitution is not the answer Slasher.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    I say we propose a counter measure that forces them to lower their corporate tax rate to that of ours. Take that Germany.:P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Craebear wrote: »
    **** em. Lets leave the EU. If that fails, emigrate to Norway.
    Yeah **** them and their immense support, money and understanding.

    :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    gizmo wrote: »
    Did you skip over that bit? :confused:
    RTÉ News also said 3 weeks ago that "The government have absolutely no intention of applying for a bailout"..

    Politicians lying... It couldn't be!?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭123balltv


    I betcha Germany and France will lower there's too
    we will be left with nothing are low corporate tax is are bread and butter


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    123balltv wrote: »
    I betcha Germany and France will lower there's too
    we will be left with nothing are low corporate tax is are bread and butter
    Actually our "bread and butter" is more than that.

    We are a Euro-spending, English-speaking country with relatively low tax rates and an educated work-force.

    Germany lowering their tax rate, or even IMO us raising ours would not be the end of these companies in Ireland. Not to mention for those that leave there will be others to take their place.
    The problem really is in rural areas, where whole towns are dependent on one employer - IMO this is ridiculous and towns that cannot exist without the one employer need to re-evaluate their position.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,261 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    OisinT wrote: »
    Actually our "bread and butter" is more than that.

    We are a Euro-spending, English-speaking country with relatively low tax rates and an educated work-force.

    Germany lowering their tax rate, or even IMO us raising ours would not be the end of these companies in Ireland. Not to mention for those that leave there will be others to take their place.
    The problem really is in rural areas, where whole towns are dependent on one employer - IMO this is ridiculous and towns that cannot exist without the one employer need to re-evaluate their position.

    Are it?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    ejmaztec wrote: »
    Are it?
    It are indeed!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    CCTB is far more of a worry than the tax rate, it's what makes us a tax haven and really pisses of the Germans and French.

    Still, it requires a veto too.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,925 ✭✭✭th3 s1aught3r


    MEP's attack Irish corporate tax rate

    How did they attack it exactly ? with tanks and bombs ?

    Seriously though. I guess from a German perspective they are bailing us out and why should we be allowed an unfair advantage on them ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭epgc3fyqirnbsx


    MEP's attack Irish corporate tax rate

    How did they attack it exactly ? with tanks and bombs ?

    Seriously though. I guess from a German perspective they are bailing us out and why should we be allowed an unfair advantage on them ?

    why is it unfair though?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I guess from a German perspective they are bailing us out and why should we be allowed an unfair advantage on them ?

    It's not unfair. It's competition. They are always welcome to lower their tax rates if they desire, but they won't dictate ours.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,689 ✭✭✭✭OutlawPete


    It is the 'position of the European parliament' that when motor vehicles are bought in another EU country and tax is paid at point of sale, member countries don't then still charge an 'importation tax' and cleverly disguise it as a 'registration tax' - yet, we have VRT.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    dlofnep wrote: »
    It's not unfair. It's competition. They are always welcome to lower their tax rates if they desire, but they won't dictate ours.

    Indeed.

    It's very important to us as a tax haven, as our Financial Services industries are attracted to here because of it. That and lax regulation.

    They should probably be more pissed off at the lack of regulation here, tbh.

    Looking from afar, our demands regarding corporation tax and burning bond holders probably look hypocritical.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Wasnt there originally a 10% tax rate which was increased -following pressure from Europe to 12.5 % ?
    OisinT wrote: »
    We are a Euro-spending, English-speaking country with relatively low tax rates and an educated work-force..

    An educated work force (TM) who still unquestioningly swallow all the propaganda about how even a modest increase in corporate tax rates would herald the end of the world.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    An educated work force (TM) who still swallow all the propaganda about how even a modest increase in corporate tax rates would herald the end of the world.
    To be fair, it is the largely uneducated masses that are blindly jumping from one bandwagon to another.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    I say we propose a counter measure that forces them to lower their corporate tax rate to that of ours. Take that Germany.:P

    Eh no that would have pretty mucht he same effect as us raising ours.

    What we should do is decrease our corporate taxrate to 10%


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭nordisk celt83


    I'm becoming very seriously eurosceptic in recent months. Whatever tax rates sovereign countries choose to follow should be totally at their own discretion.
    Also, there really needs to be some perspective here. Do these MEP's realise that a a great number of EU/European countries have lower corporation tax rates than Ireland??? Cyprus and Romania or Bulgaria come to mind, and Estonia has a corporate tax rate of 0%.
    These countries are not being overrun with investors.
    So, why the bitter resentment towards Ireland's sovereign right to set taxes at whatever levels it sees fit???? It's only worth €3billion annually, which is scraps in a European context. It's utterly bizzare and screams of eurocrat attempts to put upstarts under the thumb.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Wasnt there originally a 10% tax rate which was increased -following pressure from Europe to 12.5 % ?



    An educated work force (TM) who still unquestioningly swallow all the propaganda about how even a modest increase in corporate tax rates would herald the end of the world.

    Think there was a 0% initial rate when the IFSC was set up as well.

    AFAIK, there has to be one corporation tax rate.

    Other countries have lower rates or not too far above ours.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    K-9 wrote: »
    Other countries have lower rates or not too far above ours.

    Most are between 20-30%. Britain for example is 28%. Holland is 25.5%. Italy is over 31%.

    There's a good list on wikipedia for global corp tax rates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Most are between 20-30%. Britain for example is 28%. Holland is 25.5%. Italy is over 31%.

    There's a good list on wikipedia for global corp tax rates: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

    Yeah.

    Cyprus and Hungary have 10%, Latvia and Lithuania 15%, Romania 16%.

    The mean seems to be in the 20-25% range.

    Again though, it isn't really the rate that is the key:

    Google saved $3.1bn in taxes in past 3 years using 'Double Irish ' scheme; Google has paid no tax in UK since 2007 - - one of its biggest overseas markets

    Bloomberg reported on Thursday that Google cut its taxes by $3.1bn in the last three years using a technique that moves most of its foreign profits through Ireland and the Netherlands to Bermuda. It has paid no taxes in the UK since 2007 even though it is one of its biggest overseas markets.


    Bloomberg said Google’s income shifting -- involving strategies known to lawyers as the “Double Irish” and the “Dutch Sandwich” -- helped reduce its overseas tax rate to 2.4%, the lowest of the top five US technology companies by market capitalization, according to regulatory filings in six countries.



    Revenues from the United Kingdom totaled $840m in the third quarter - - representing 12% of revenues -- but the US firm paid no corporate taxes in the UK even though it has 850 employed there.
    Income from selling advertising on Google's UK website goes straight to its Irish subsidiary.


    The London Independent says the latest filing by Google UK at Companies House in London shows that "administrative expenses" rose by £21.6m, eclipsing an increase of £19.8m in revenue and resulting in a loss of £9.7m. The losses were due in part to the increased costs of stock-based compensation, it is understood.



    Earnings moved from Ireland and the Netherlands wind up in island havens that levy no corporate income taxes at all.


    Bloomberg says Eoin Dorgan, a spokesman for the Irish Department of Finance, declined to comment on Google’s strategies specifically. “Ireland always seeks to ensure that the profits charged in Ireland fully reflect the functions, assets and risks located here by multinational groups,” he said.


    This is a ludicrous statement given that 2 of Ireland's biggest companies are based at a Dublin law firm and are owned by software giant Microsoft. They are used to collect funds from other overseas units including income.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Why is the corporate tax rate such a sacred cow???

    I decided to do some quick calculations using the "Taxes in Europe Database"

    Not having much time I only really looked at 2008.

    Based on my calculations (which I accept may be wrong :)):

    2008 Taxable Corporate Income was: €40.57 Billion
    This generated tax revenues of: €5.07 Billion

    Surprisingly I found that if we were to increase our corporate tax rate to 25%:
    Taxable Corporate Income could drop to EXACTLY 50% of 2008 levels and we would still recoup €5.07 Billion. EXACTLY the same as in 2008. This in my opinion would be a worse case scenario......

    So again I ask, Why is our corporate tax rate such a sacred cow?? A slightly higher rate could be entirely justifiable in my opinion.

    I haven't taken capital gains income into account here either. I'm not stupid and I do acknowledge that a large drop in taxable corporate income would probably mean massive unemployment which would have knock on effects elsewhere in the tax-net however a modest increase in our corporate tax rate could possibly be offset by a small reduction in the minimum wage (as is already coming) and investment of the extra revenue gained being ploughed back into improving infrastructure, education and reducing the cost of doing business in Ireland. This in turn would benefit industry and hopefully encourage foreign businesses to remain. Just a thought :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Frankly I don't give a fiddlers if Google sent their planet wide income thru Dublin and only employ a janitor and three IT geeks - 10% of Google's income is a **** load of cash in our economy we wouldn't have otherwise


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    mconigol wrote: »
    Why is the corporate tax rate such a sacred cow???

    I decided to do some quick calculations using the "Taxes in Europe Database"

    Not having much time I only really looked at 2008.

    Based on my calculations (which I accept may be wrong :)):

    2008 Taxable Corporate Income was: €40.57 Billion
    This generated tax revenues of: €5.07 Billion

    Surprisingly I found that if we were to increase our corporate tax rate to 25%:
    Taxable Corporate Income could drop to EXACTLY 50% of 2008 levels and we would still recoup €5.07 Billion. EXACTLY the same as in 2008. This in my opinion would be a worse case scenario......

    So again I ask, Why is our corporate tax rate such a sacred cow?? A slightly higher rate could be entirely justifiable in my opinion.

    I haven't taken capital gains income into account here either. I'm not stupid and I do acknowledge that a large drop in taxable corporate income would probably mean massive unemployment which would have knock on effects elsewhere in the tax-net however a modest increase in our corporate tax rate could possibly be offset by a small reduction in the minimum wage (as is already coming) and investment of the extra revenue gained being ploughed back into improving infrastructure, education and reducing the cost of doing business in Ireland. This in turn would benefit industry and hopefully encourage foreign businesses to remain. Just a thought :)
    Intel, HP, Facebook, Google.. etc. have no reason to be here only for the corporate tax rate. Large companies would pack up shop and move to a better place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    Sykk wrote: »
    Intel, HP, Facebook, Google.. etc. have no reason to be here only for the corporate tax rate. Large companies would pack up shop and move to a better place.

    Narnia ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Frankly I don't give a fiddlers if Google sent their planet wide income thru Dublin and only employ a janitor and three IT geeks - 10% of Google's income is a **** load of cash in our economy we wouldn't have otherwise

    Doesn't bother me either.

    Might bother a few Brits, Germans etc. though, bit like Bono paying taxes in the Netherlands pisses off loads of Irish people.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    K-9 wrote: »
    Doesn't bother me either.

    Might bother a few Brits, Germans etc. though, bit like Bono paying taxes in the Netherlands pisses off loads of Irish people.

    Ah if it keeps Paul Hewson from trying to lecture us on the economy then its a price worth paying


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Sykk wrote: »
    Intel, HP, Facebook, Google.. etc. have no reason to be here only for the corporate tax rate. Large companies would pack up shop and move to a better place.

    Well if we were to increase to 16% the only cheaper economies would be:

    Romania 16%
    Latvia 15%
    Lithuania 15%
    Cyprus 10%
    Bulgaria 10%

    16% would be a 33% increase in corporate tax revenue which would amount to approximately an extra €1.5 billion in income to the state.

    I still think we would be in a very good position to compete with any of these countries considering our tax and legal system is specifically setup to make it easy for these companies to channel funds through Ireland regardless of our corporate tax rate.

    I've worked for Intel....they will pack up shop whenever they feel like it regardless of what our tax rates are as would the others. We have an educated, english speaking workforce which should still be a huge draw. I just think we should be aiming to offer companies more than just a low corporate tax rate - of course we should have been preparing for this years ago!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    Germany and France can **** off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Seriously though. I guess from a German perspective they are bailing us out and why should we be allowed an unfair advantage on them ?
    Are they? Last time I checked, the bondholders were largely German and UK banks, so in reality they are bailing out their own banks, and making us pay 4% over the odds for the trouble. Oh and lets not forget we'll also be paying one euro in five in taxes on interest alone (which is at least better than the 80s, according to government sources. I weep.) to ease market concerns about Portugal and Spain.
    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    An educated work force (TM) who still unquestioningly swallow all the propaganda about how even a modest increase in corporate tax rates would herald the end of the world.
    Maybe you feel cavalier about playing Russian roulette with half a million jobs, but most people would take a more restrained viewpoint.
    mconigol wrote: »
    I decided to do some quick calculations using the "Taxes in Europe Database"
    Did you calculate the amount of income tax, VAT, employers' PRSI contributions and so on that the ~400,000 people more or less directly employed by FDI pay as well? It comes to a lot more than €5 billion. In fact, you could say that we're looking down the barrel of 50% unemployment rates, joining the illustrious ranks of countries like Zimbabwe and Zaire.

    Make no mistake, these individuals:

    Jean-Paul Gauzes (EPP), Udo Bullmann (S&D), Sylvie Goulard (ALDE), Sven Giegold (Greens/EFA), Burkhard Balz (EPP), Leonardo Dominici (S&D), Wolf Klinz (ALDE) and Pascal Canfin (Greens/EFA).

    are no friends to this country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Craebear wrote: »
    **** em. Lets leave the EU. If that fails, emigrate to Norway.

    Norway's corporation tax is 28%.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    K-9 wrote: »
    Bloomberg reported on Thursday that Google cut its taxes by $3.1bn in the last three years using a technique that moves most of its foreign profits through Ireland and the Netherlands to Bermuda. It has paid no taxes in the UK since 2007 even though it is one of its biggest overseas markets.
    Did Bloomberg also report that Google employs almost two thousand people in Ireland in well-paying jobs, bringing total annual revenue easily to over fifty million euros?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    whiskeyman wrote: »
    The politics forum is thataway...
    Its too easy to get an infection in Politics. :p

    When your down they will kick ya and this is exactly how the EU bullying tactics operate.

    Fcuk them. I just hope Cowen and his crew dosn't cave in on this one before they get booted out. This is perhaps our last trump card we have to offer to foreign companies wishing to remain here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    [QUOTE=Amhran Nua;69311181
    Did you calculate the amount of income tax, VAT, employers' PRSI contributions and so on that the ~400,000 people more or less directly employed by FDI pay as well? It comes to a lot more than €5 billion. In fact, you could say that we're looking down the barrel of 50% unemployment rates, joining the illustrious ranks of countries like Zimbabwe and Zaire.

    Make no mistake, these individuals:

    Jean-Paul Gauzes (EPP), Udo Bullmann (S&D), Sylvie Goulard (ALDE), Sven Giegold (Greens/EFA), Burkhard Balz (EPP), Leonardo Dominici (S&D), Wolf Klinz (ALDE) and Pascal Canfin (Greens/EFA).

    are no friends to this country.[/QUOTE]


    If you actually read my original post you would have seen that I said that I was only talking in respect of corporation tax and I actually mentioned that I was not taking into account loss of income tax etc... Your suggestion of a 50% unemployment rate is absolutely ludicrous however, we're probably looking at something in the region of 10% in the long term. We are not Zimbabwe. Stop being sensationalist.

    An increase in corporation tax would not mean every foreign company in the country would up and leave so the figure of 400,000 that you mention is never going to happen.

    The people you mention may not be friends of Ireland as you say but that's not to say that there is no merit in Ireland as a country actually examining the possibility of a change to our corporate tax rate. I fail to see where this blind faith in one aspect of our taxation policy (i.e. 12.5%) seems to have become the general consensus among the population.

    There is absolutely no reason why we couldn't have a higher corporate tax rate and at the same time provide a better place for international companies to do business by spending the extra taxation on infrastructure and education which as I stated before would benefit ordinary taxpayers also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,227 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Did Bloomberg also report that Google employs almost two thousand people in Ireland in well-paying jobs, bringing total annual revenue easily to over fifty million euros?

    And I wonder how much they save in tax? Might it exceed €50m?

    Corporations doing business here should benefit the people here, not the people somewhere else. They should be paying a fair rate of Corporate tax. 12.5% is not a fair rate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Did Bloomberg also report that Google employs almost two thousand people in Ireland in well-paying jobs, bringing total annual revenue easily to over fifty million euros?

    50 Million Euro?

    I assume the blended rate of 3.4% was made up of 12.5% here, whatever the rate is in the Netherlands and 0% in the Caymans etc.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    mconigol wrote: »
    If you actually read my original post you would have seen that I said that I was only talking in respect of corporation tax and I actually mentioned that I was not taking into account loss of income tax etc... Your suggestion of a 50% unemployment rate is absolutely ludicrous however
    So you've no clue how many people are actually employed by FDI here, the history of our corporate tax rate, or recent statements by US businesses in Ireland on the matter, and yet you feel capable of saying that a 50% unemployment rate is ludicrous. Great.
    mconigol wrote: »
    An increase in corporation tax would not mean every foreign company in the country would up and leave so the figure of 400,000 that you mention is never going to happen.
    Okay, could you take a moment and list all of the competitive advantages Ireland has over say the UK, or Eastern Europe which is suddenly awash with fluent English speakers for some reason. Low labour costs, electricity costs, perhaps internet connectivity, anything really.
    Pherekydes wrote: »
    And I wonder how much they save in tax? Might it exceed €50m?
    Who cares? Its better than the zero point zero we would be getting if they located elsewhere.
    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Corporations doing business here should benefit the people here, not the people somewhere else. They should be paying a fair rate of Corporate tax. 12.5% is not a fair rate.
    Once again, I think the 400,000 odd Irish people employed via FDI in this country might vigorously disagree with your theory about people here not benefiting.
    K-9 wrote: »
    50 Million Euro?

    I assume the blended rate of 3.4% was made up of 12.5% here, whatever the rate is in the Netherlands and 0% in the Caymans etc.
    Income taxes, employers PRSI contribution, VAT paid by employees, the multiplier effect, and on and on and on...


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