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RTE Two transmitting in HD resolution

  • 02-12-2010 03:04PM
    #1
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭


    RTE Two has been switched to HD resolution (1440x1088). Cartoon on at the moment (actually 4:3) upscaled to HD and wrong aspect ratio 16:9. But good to see progress:) Anyone with an HD-incapable receiver (unable to receive RTENL loop) will lose RTE 2. RTENL channel broadcasting SD testcard 544x576, so it looks like they have done a swap on the two channels.


«1345

Comments

  • #2
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    I just spotted that too , nice one. I wonder If they will switch between SD and HD resolutions or will leave it as HD.


  • #3
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,451 ✭✭✭✭watty


    That's RTE 2 gone on Sagem Picnic, Neotion "CAM" (aka NP4), Philex Skyline etc?

    Simpler to leave it in HD and upscale (Up Convert). Some TVs don't like per-program SD-HD switching. It's in the Minimum spec to cope with it without a re-scan.


  • #4
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    watty wrote: »
    That's RTE 2 gone on Sagem Picnic, Neotion "CAM" (aka NP4), Philex Skyline etc?

    Lets prepare ourselves for the onslaught of threads on the disappearance of RTE 2.
    watty wrote: »
    Simpler to leave it in HD and upscale (Up Convert). Some TVs don't like per-program SD-HD switching. It's in the Minimum spec to cope with it without a re-scan.

    I was thinking that myself.

    Next thing to be done is the second mux to be added. I'm very impressed with the Saorview role out so far. It's progressing alot faster than I thought it would.


  • #5
    philahern
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭philahern


    I can confirm it's gone from the picnic box. It cost me 26 euro for about 3 weeks. Almost as much as sky ;-)


  • #6
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    philahern wrote: »
    I can confirm it's gone from the picnic box. It cost me 26 euro for about 3 weeks. Almost as much as sky ;-)


    It's gone on mine s well, but it still works for the others. Not completely junk.


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  • #7
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    It's gone on mine s well, but it still works for the others. Not completely junk.
    Providing you like Jeremy Kyle on TV3/3E:D


  • #8
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    fat-tony wrote: »
    Providing you like Jeremy Kyle on TV3/3E:D

    The sad bit is losing the rugby, Magniers league. It would be brilliant if it were in HD. Not sure they will have it in native HD though.

    We will see, or perhaps not if you only have a Picnic box.


  • #9
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,451 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The unofficial site press release http://www.saortv.info/2010/12/02/rte-2-up-scaled-to-hd/

    Nothing new here http://saorview.ie/
    here http://www.rte.ie/saorview/
    or http://rtenl.ie/dtt.htm

    Hmm.


  • #10
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,451 ✭✭✭✭watty


    What's "Native HD"?

    Apart from what ever dots your TV has which can be 864 x 480 to 1440 x 720, with 1366 x768 and 1024 x 600 both common on HD Ready.

    RTE DTT HD uses Anamorphic 1440 x1080i, same as UK HD DTT and some Satellite content. "Full non-Anamorphic" is 1920 x 1080i


  • #11
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    I would assume that Sam meant programmes originated and carried through the broadcast chain in one of the HD (as opposed to SD upscaled) resolutions. Simples:)


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  • #12
    radiospan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭radiospan


    Neighbours (on now) and Home & Away (6.30pm) are produced in HD.

    Anyone checking if these are in HD now, or just SD upscaled?

    (Although I thought I remember reading RTE are a good bit off getting their HD encoders installed?)


  • #13
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    Definitely not in HD (Home & Away). As watty and other have said, the likelihood is that only the odd home-produced sports event might be originated in HD and connected to the encoder. The general playout system in RTE is SD.


  • #14
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    The unofficial site press release http://www.saortv.info/2010/12/02/rte-2-up-scaled-to-hd/

    Nothing new here http://saorview.ie/
    here http://www.rte.ie/saorview/
    or http://rtenl.ie/dtt.htm

    Hmm.

    Information on 3e hasn't been added to those sites either.


  • #15
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    For anyone interested and who didn't follow the discussion on it here last Sept, in mid August RTÉ published a tender notice for the supply of a HD playout facility for RTÉ Television.

    RTÉ HD Playout Facility Technical Requirements Document here. The document gives a good overview of RTÉ's HD plans.


  • #16
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    I wouldn't expect www.saorview.ie to be updated to say RTE2 is being broadcast in HD ... can you imagine the uproar from all the SKY HD subscribers who feel so hard done by not having BBC1 HD, ITV1HD and C4 on their epg only to find out that RTE2 HD is not available to them on the Sky platform too :eek:

    *Mental note* - I must go and stir some sh*t over on the satellite forum :D


    Regarding 3e - I contacted saorview.ie about 3e and asked "Is it planned that 3e will continue to be on the service, I ask because the Saorview website has not been updated to list 3e as one of the channel available." The response was "The channel line up will be confirmed in advance of the formal launch of the service in the spring of 2011. It is likely that TV3, 3e and RTÉ News Now will continue up to and after launch but nothing is 100% set in stone at the moment"


  • #17
    rsmike
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 113 ✭✭rsmike


    Can confirm RTE2 gone on my Neotion CAM on my second TV, ah well, It was a cheap throwaway solution during my house extension work while I waited to buy a new main TV, but probably best dumped asap because of a more serious drawback (overheating).

    kinda helps me justify going for a cheap Freeview HD box, or I might wait until a few more official saorview STB's appear, would like one that will take an external hard drive and comes with PVR software.

    anyone got the inside track on when we will see anything other than walker STB's with a saorview logo?


  • #18
    desm52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 ✭desm52


    I have a Sagem Picnic so my RTE Two isn't working anymore. As I'm in Northern Ireland I'm thinking of getting a Humax HD-FOX T2 Freeview HD box so I can also get Freeview HD when it arrives in NI in 2012. Can anyone confirm if it works OK with RTE Two in HD?


  • #19
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,451 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It should.
    works with HD loop and has correct spec.
    http://www.saortv.info/about/n-i-digital/


  • #20
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    RTÉ has stated the following
    The first stage of the project will up-convert much of the RTÉ 2 schedule of programmes from SD to HD for transmission. RTÉ owns the transmission rights for some remote local (i.e Outside Broadacst) and some EBU events, which are originated and available natively in HD. The signals from these events will be delivered to RTÉ’s Donnybrook Television Centre and will then be directly passed on to the proposed new service for broadcast in HD.. It is planned to introduce this “pass through” live HD playout, while the existing Snell Compass system is still in operation. This will enable the introduction of the HD service at the earliest possible date without the requirement to migrate to the new automation system.

    What might be the first live native HD event on RTÉ 2 HD, next week's Champions League game, Six Nations Rugby, the Pope's Christmas Urbi et Orbi? :D

    also from RTÉ
    It is planned that the service will carry a new logo/bug ‘RTÉ 2 HD’ and also a short animation will be played, probably a lower third
    super, on handover to the live event.
    ...
    In all cases the transmission schedule/running order will contain specific data to indicate the true HD events.

    So when an actual native HD event is being broadcast we will have an ‘RTÉ 2 HD’ DOG displayed during the event so that we know we are actually watching a true HD transmission instead of upscaled/upconverted material.


  • #21
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    watty wrote: »
    What's "Native HD"?

    I presume the normal meaning of 'native' meaning it is naturally so - or in other words started out that way. So yes, the original format was 'HD'

    So RTE 2 HD will be showing programmes made originally in HD, downconverted to SD and then 'upscaled' to HD and then transmitted. 'Oh, well, it's progress, but not as we know it, Jim.'


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  • #22
    zaphodbeeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭zaphodbeeb


    Just watched the news and a few mins of Under Ether.

    DVD played in my Blu Ray player looks amazing compared to this.

    Looks brutal.


  • #23
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    I'm very impressed with the Saorview role out so far. It's progressing alot faster than I thought it would.

    +1.

    If theres any money left in RTE for a marketing campaign the weeks proceeding the start of the 2011 GAA championships could be a good time to push RTE2 HD or maybe even for the Six Nations rugby.

    Would RTE broadcast these events all in HD? If I remember rightly, RTE switched to widescreen just before the start of the 2005 GAA championship season on the Sky platform.


  • #24
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,978 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    zaphodbeeb wrote: »
    Just watched the news and a few mins of Under Ether.

    DVD played in my Blu Ray player looks amazing compared to this.

    Looks brutal.

    Currently only upscaled/upconverted material being broadcast, don't know the bit rate.
    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    If theres any money left in RTE for a marketing campaign the weeks proceeding the start of the 2011 GAA championships could be a good time to push RTE2 HD or maybe even for the Six Nations rugby.

    Would RTE broadcast the championships in HD?

    The full Saorview launch is planned for May next year so I'd expect the big-push information campaign to begin at that time including the GAA Championship games in HD.


  • #25
    tlaavtech
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 333 ✭✭tlaavtech


    I wonder how much of the decision to switch RTÉ2 to HD is simply for RTÉNL to set out their stall early. Even if it stays upscaled for the forseeable future, it means that one station will not work out of the box if someone buys a non-compliant device. Now at least the person flogging Picnics will have them returned by people saying that they don't work rather than RTÉNL having people contacting them in the future saying "You have screwed up RTÉ2!"

    I am interested to see when they will do genuine HD. If I recall from the original documents, it is only live events that we will see HD for the moment rather than HD Aussie soaps from tape.


  • #26
    mossym
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭mossym


    tlaavtech wrote: »

    I am interested to see when they will do genuine HD. If I recall from the original documents, it is only live events that we will see HD for the moment rather than HD Aussie soaps from tape.

    given the quantity of american programming rte2 shows, they must have a huge available bank of american shows in HD, willwe get to see them is the big question, i imagine they would be a bigger bonus to have in HD than aussie soaps, things like the CSI franchises were seen as the reference for quality when the american networks initially moved to HD


  • #27
    gtg60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭gtg60


    I still can't see the point of wasting bandwidth broadcasting upscaled SD material, I'd rather that bandwidth spread over the other channels to make them as good as possible.


  • #28
    irishchris
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭irishchris


    im of the opposite view. i think it is nice to see rte nl setting out early on implementing adding tv3/3e and now instead of us watching a hd loop of images of horses in a field we are getting {albeit simply upscaled for now} a hd version of rte two. i am having fingers crossed that the champions league on 8th december is in native hd but maybe just a dream for now :D


  • #29
    gtg60
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,759 ✭✭✭gtg60


    irishchris wrote: »
    im of the opposite view. i think it is nice to see rte nl setting out early on implementing adding tv3/3e and now instead of us watching a hd loop of images of horses in a field we are getting {albeit simply upscaled for now} a hd version of rte two. i am having fingers crossed that the champions league on 8th december is in native hd but maybe just a dream for now :D

    That's not what I'm saying, if it's in HD then broadcast it in HD, if it's not then don't and spread that bandwidth so ALL the channels look better.


  • #30
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    gtg60 wrote: »
    That's not what I'm saying, if it's in HD then broadcast it in HD, if it's not then don't and spread that bandwidth so ALL the channels look better.
    It's probably the case that keeping RTÉ2 on HD wherever upscaled or true, will allow non-compliant receivers to be flushed out of the system so that people will not be wondering why when they're watching RTÉ2 that the picture "intermittently" goes off. A lot of the BBC's (except the BBC HD channel itself, ITV's, C4's & Five's HD channels show a lot of upscaled materla themselves.

    In terms of bitrate, that makes sense to some extent but from my personal subjective view, the picture quality on the current SD channels on Saorview is better than many Freeview channels, who are running just slightly higher average bitrates in MPEG2 compared to Saorview's MPEG4.


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  • #31
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    There may be an issue if RTENL switch resolution between SD and HD on the one channel. TVs and STBs (depending on how they are set up by the owner) can have interference on picture when the resolution is changed. STBs, particularly, can have 2 -3 seconds of green/blue screen or other interference while HDMI handshaking is taking place during a resolution change. You can minimise the interference (I know you know about this gtg) by fixing the resolution at the STB, but this can cause odd aspect ratio problems when TVs sometimes assume all HD material is 16:9 depending on how they are configured.
    We are not losing anything in bandwidth in comparison to the past several weeks when the RTENL channel was broadcasting the constant HD loop.
    I too, would prefer to see RTE One allocated a full 720x576 resolution also, but the beancounters are presumably ensuring that maximum use is made of the mux capacity.


  • #32
    breaux
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65 ✭✭breaux


    desm52 wrote: »
    I have a Sagem Picnic so my RTE Two isn't working anymore. As I'm in Northern Ireland I'm thinking of getting a Humax HD-FOX T2 Freeview HD box so I can also get Freeview HD when it arrives in NI in 2012. Can anyone confirm if it works OK with RTE Two in HD?
    Can see now why they called it a "Picnic". Anyway good why it lasted and the other channels including radio are still there. Any recommendations from here.?


  • #33
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    fat-tony wrote: »
    but this can cause odd aspect ratio problems when TVs sometimes assume all HD material is 16:9 depending on how they are configured.

    Yes this would be a problem for my Sony W4000 & V4500 TV's. You can't select the 4:3 aspect ratio when the TV's are receiving HD (1080 line) transmissions. So any upscaled material originally shot in 4:3 couldn't be displayed properly on them. LG TV's (LH2000 series) are ok. Can select 4:3, even in HD mode.


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    Yes this would be a problem for my Sony W4000 & V4500 TV's. You can't select the 4:3 aspect ratio when the TV's are receiving HD (1080 line) transmissions. So any upscaled material originally shot in 4:3 couldn't be displayed properly on them. LG TV's (LH2000 series) are ok. Can select 4:3, even in HD mode.
    Same with my parents' Philips. They have their SkyHD box set to 1080i as the upscaler in the box delivers better picture quality on SD than the TV itself. But the aspect ratio override is disabled on 720p/1080i so everything is stretched to 16:9. I believe Virgin Media boxes in the UK handle this themselves (by pillarboxing 4:3 programmes when upscaling) but Sky boxes just stretch everything.

    I never tested my Samsung C530 on HDMI but it does allow manual aspect ratio switching on RTÉ Two alright.


  • #35
    philahern
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 148 ✭✭philahern


    breaux wrote: »
    Can see now why they called it a "Picnic". Anyway good why it lasted and the other channels including radio are still there. Any recommendations from here.?

    I have the rf loop out sent to the tv on my parents old tv. They are using the epg on the digital and watching 3e, news now etc and when they see something they want to watch on 2, they switch back to tv. Works in the meantime til I update their tv for them and is still better than the analogue.


  • #36
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Karsini wrote: »
    Same with my parents' Philips. They have their SkyHD box set to 1080i as the upscaler in the box delivers better picture quality on SD than the TV itself. But the aspect ratio override is disabled on 720p/1080i so everything is stretched to 16:9. I believe Virgin Media boxes in the UK handle this themselves (by pillarboxing 4:3 programmes when upscaling) but Sky boxes just stretch everything.

    I never tested my Samsung C530 on HDMI but it does allow manual aspect ratio switching on RTÉ Two alright.

    Hopefully they will do this. Must keep an eye out for older programming in the schedules to see if they do.

    EDIT: Theres an episode of the Simpsons due on at 6pm. If its one of the older ones it should be a 4:3 original production.


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  • #37
    Rick_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,620 ✭✭✭Rick_


    It will be, RTÉ are nowhere near showing the 16:9 HD episodes of The Simpsons yet. Some older childrens programming is also in 4:3 so keep an eye on it.

    Hopefully they will send the correct signals so it is properly pillarboxed. The SD channel was, so hopefully the HD one will too.


  • #38
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,451 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    Hopefully they will do this. Must keep an eye out for older programming in the schedules to see if they do.

    EDIT: Theres an episode of the Simpsons due on at 6pm. If its one of the older ones it should be a 4:3 original production.

    The Simpsons was 4:3 but not window boxed in transmission


  • #39
    fat-tony
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,711 ✭✭✭fat-tony


    I noticed that, too, yesterday. I'm sure they'll tweak the encoder settings to pillarbox 4:3 transmissions (or if they switch off the WSS, that should work on my TV as I have it set to 4:3).


  • #40
    foxire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭foxire


    When I switched to RTE 2 last night I got sound and a blank screen. I guessed that RTE 2 was broadcasting in HD. I have a picnic box from October 2009 so that I could get RTE. I can still get that other channels in digital and switch to analogue for RTE 2 on the picnic box.

    I am from Co. Tyrone and RTE 2 are the first television station to broadcast in HD here. I will not be able to get freeview HD until late 2012 or early 2013 as I am getting freeview from Brougher mountain.

    foxire


  • #41
    Mayo Exile
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Paddy C wrote: »
    It will be, RTÉ are nowhere near showing the 16:9 HD episodes of The Simpsons yet. Some older childrens programming is also in 4:3 so keep an eye on it.

    Hopefully they will send the correct signals so it is properly pillarboxed. The SD channel was, so hopefully the HD one will too.

    Simpsons on now, but its "stretchyvision". Hopefully will correct this in the future.


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  • #42
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,719 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    Magners League, Scarlets V Leinster on at the moment in HD (info has 16:9 1080i) on RTE Two. Pic looks good with a bog standard All4one Aerial off the Greystones relay.

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



  • #43
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    So is it time for the walker stb or any other stb? The picnic was grand while it lasted

    Any suggestions on a stb would be great, thanks


  • #44
    Gipo3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Gipo3


    The leinster match is upscaled. I have not seen any program in hd, all been upscaled.


  • #45
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Gipo3 wrote: »
    The leinster match is upscaled. I have not seen any program in hd, all been upscaled.

    Stupid question but how can you tell that it's only upscaled?


  • #46
    Gipo3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Gipo3


    Obviously you have never seen hd broadcast of rugby or any other sport. HD is much better than what rte were broadcasting.


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I could see it in the onscreen text, it wasn't as crisp as you'd normally see on a HD broadcast.


  • #48
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    Gipo3 wrote: »
    Obviously you have never seen hd broadcast of rugby or any other sport. HD is much better than what rte were broadcasting.

    I have BBC hd but the question was more about are you just guessing or looking at something on the epg or some other way


  • #49
    SRB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 820 ✭✭✭SRB


    BBC2 Northern Ireland also carried the match, as did BBC2 Wales, as neither have HD services, I doubt there would have been an HD version.


  • #50
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,451 ✭✭✭✭watty


    glineli wrote: »
    Stupid question but how can you tell that it's only upscaled?
    135677.png135679.png
    Real HD <----
    > Up-scaled to HD


    If RTE up-scale at their end, it's HD for the TV even if it isn't. Your eye can tell. Nothing else can.


  • #51
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    watty wrote: »
    135677.png135679.png
    Real HD <----
    > Up-scaled to HD

    Thanks watty. I was asking was there anyway to know either through the epg, maybe the info button on the tv or some other way If it's hd. The info button just says 1080i and hd


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