Minimum wage nearing northern levels..

dlofnep · 09-12-2010 07:28PM #1

The minimum wage in the north at the moment is €7.03 - The new proposals to reduce the minimum wage in the south to €7.65 is nothing short of a farce. The Irish worker is being sucked dry.

Not only does the north have a significantly lower cost of living, but it also has a significantly higher corp tax (more than double than of the south at up to 28%).

Despite this - the new minimum wage will be almost equal that of the north, splitting the difference of only 62 cents per hour of work.

The Irish people are being taken for a ride. And as usual, the majority of those who favour this new minimum wage, are those who earn substantially beyond that of the minimum wage.

motherriley · 09-12-2010 07:35PM

dlofnep wrote: »

The minimum wage in the north at the moment is €7.03 - The new proposals to reduce the minimum wage in the south to €7.65 is nothing short of a farce. The Irish worker is being sucked dry.

Not only does the north have a significantly lower cost of living, but it also has a significantly higher corp tax (more than double than of the south at up to 28%).

Despite this - the new minimum wage will be almost equal that of the north, splitting the difference of only 62 cents per hour of work.

The Irish people are being taken for a ride. And as usual, the majority of those who favour this new minimum wage, are those who earn substantially beyond that of the minimum wage.

It will get much more difficult for the UK in the new year when their budget kicks in. VAT going up caps on welfare also peolple will have to take work for their welfare and if they turn down a job their benefits will be cut.

dlofnep · 10-12-2010 03:19AM

motherriley wrote: »

It will get much more difficult for the UK in the new year when their budget kicks in. VAT going up caps on welfare also peolple will have to take work for their welfare and if they turn down a job their benefits will be cut.

I'm discussing the minimum wage, not welfare. The issue of welfare payments is another discussion, and obviously a valid one. But it has nothing to do with my points brother.

johnnyskeleton · 10-12-2010 10:48AM

dlofnep wrote: »

The minimum wage in the north at the moment is €7.03 - The new proposals to reduce the minimum wage in the south to €7.65 is nothing short of a farce. The Irish worker is being sucked dry.

Explain how trending towards the same level as our nearest competitor counts as being "sucked dry"? If Irish prices for say alcohol are getting closer to the prices in the north, then you would say it is a good thing. Labour is also a product. It is only different to say a bottle of whiskey because it is consumed by businesses instead of consumers and it is also an emotive topic for a lot of people (and rightly so).

However, that does not change the fact that if we want jobs, we have to offer a competitive labour market. All your talk of being "sucked dry" is meaningless if businesses won't survive if they pay current minimum wage levels. So really the Irish people are being "sucked dry" by artificially high wages and correspondingly high welfare payments.

dlofnep wrote: »

Not only does the north have a significantly lower cost of living, but it also has a significantly higher corp tax (more than double than of the south at up to 28%).

You fail to understand a fairly basic part of economics. A high cost of living is caused by too much money chasing too few goods i.e. we were paying ourselves too much and then spending too much. While if we were not in the Euro this would lead to devaluation of our currency, the Euro means that we can't just devalue our way back to sustainable levels. So the only way we can get the cost of living down is to stop paying ourselves as much as we are and for consumers to become more price sensitive.

dlofnep wrote: »

Despite this - the new minimum wage will be almost equal that of the north, splitting the difference of only 62 cents per hour of work.

How dare they pay their workers almost as much as we do. Sure isn't it obvious that the Southern Irish deserve more money than those in the North?

Especially since 7.65 is what the minimum wage was in 2007 when prices here were at their peak.

dlofnep wrote: »

The Irish people are being taken for a ride. And as usual, the majority of those who favour this new minimum wage, are those who earn substantially beyond that of the minimum wage.

The personal circumstances of those who favour the new minimum wage are irrelevant. Those who earn minimum wage and are facing a drop clearly don't want a reduction in their income. But that is self interest rather than any real justification for maintaining the old rate.

Ironically, a lot of people on the dole would be happy to take an illegal job for less than the minimum wage, but yet object to any cuts in it.

jester77 · 10-12-2010 11:53AM

dlofnep wrote: »

The minimum wage in the north at the moment is €7.03 - The new proposals to reduce the minimum wage in the south to €7.65 is nothing short of a farce. The Irish worker is being sucked dry.

Not only does the north have a significantly lower cost of living, but it also has a significantly higher corp tax (more than double than of the south at up to 28%).

Despite this - the new minimum wage will be almost equal that of the north, splitting the difference of only 62 cents per hour of work.

The Irish people are being taken for a ride. And as usual, the majority of those who favour this new minimum wage, are those who earn substantially beyond that of the minimum wage.

What is your point here? Surely this can only be a good thing from a competitive point of view. Now that we are near equal, N. Ireland no longer has that advantage when attracting potential business. We can now almost compete on wage levels, plus we have the additional advantage of a lower corporation tax. This is a win-win situation when trying to sell southern Ireland to potential business and investment.

Permabear · 10-12-2010 01:27PM

This post has been deleted.

Notorious97 · 10-12-2010 02:53PM

I think most peoples objections to the reductions on welfare and minimum wage come from the fact the cost of living within the republic are still to high. I understand peoples posts in favour of the reduction, however people will now have their incomes cut, when the prices of food, light and heat etc are still too high. If cost of living was alot cheaper nobody could object to reducing the minimum wage limit and welfare cuts.

Its going to be a tough couple of years unfortunately, hopefully though the country will get through this.

Soldie · 10-12-2010 03:09PM

I think the minimum wage should be scrapped or severely reduced in order to get as many people as possible working (of course the welfare budget would need to be slashed accordingly).

Those who resist reductions in the minimum wage often point to the fact that "only 4%" of workers are on it. But it's not as straight-forward as that: in times when companies are experiencing financial difficulties and they need to let staff go, they'll tend to release the more expendable staff, and minimum-wage earners fall into that category. There is also reason to believe that there's a rather substantial labour black market in Ireland.

dlofnep · 10-12-2010 03:29PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Explain how trending towards the same level as our nearest competitor counts as being "sucked dry"?

Because despite having similar minimum wage levels, one state has a much higher cost of living and much lower corp tax. Money goes much more up north. So if you have two workers, doing the same job - one will see much more return for their wages than the other.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

However, that does not change the fact that if we want jobs, we have to offer a competitive labour market.

We offer a competitive labour market. Very few nations in the developed world offer corp tax at the levels that we offer. Either corp tax is or is not an incentive.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

All your talk of being "sucked dry" is meaningless if businesses won't survive if they pay current minimum wage levels.

Businesses won't survive if there is less disposable income per family.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

You fail to understand a fairly basic part of economics.

No I don't. You can save your patronising comments for someone else, thank you.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

A high cost of living is caused by too much money chasing too few goods i.e. we were paying ourselves too much and then spending too much.

There are many contributing factors to a high cost of living. Ireland being a small country, with a low population, and huge monopoly-driven economics which can dictate the cost of goods is a huge factor.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How dare they pay their workers almost as much as we do. Sure isn't it obvious that the Southern Irish deserve more money than those in the North?

I think you misconstrued my point. My point was that the cost of living in the north is substantially lower than it is here, and the cost of operating a business is substantially higher - but yet, we still will have a similar minimum wage - despite the reality that we are getting far less return - through pay and through tax.

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

The personal circumstances of those who favour the new minimum wage are irrelevant. Those who earn minimum wage and are facing a drop clearly don't want a reduction in their income. But that is self interest rather than any real justification for maintaining the old rate.

It's irrelevant? I think it's very relevant as it will be those people who are directly affected by it. Since when did their interests become irrelevant?

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Ironically, a lot of people on the dole would be happy to take an illegal job for less than the minimum wage, but yet object to any cuts in it.

I suppose you've done a public survey to demonstrate how happy people would be to work for less than the minimum wage? Or are you just disingenuously hypothesizing? I would hazard a guess that the majority of the people on the dole would like to earn a fair wage should they find work.

Aka Ishur · 10-12-2010 03:45PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Not only does the north have a significantly lower cost of living, but it also has a significantly higher corp tax (more than double than of the south at up to 28%).

Excuse my ignorance but what does this have to do with the minimum wage? Does this reduce the take home pay or something? Change things in any way?

dlofnep · 10-12-2010 03:51PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance but what does this have to do with the minimum wage? Does this reduce the take home pay or something? Change things in any way?

Put simply - the higher the tax on company profits, the less profits they hold. Less profit for a company is going to have a direct result on company wages. So in the south, if a company is charged at 12.5% on income and gain profits - and 28% in the north - Why would this not be reflective on employee wages?

Aka Ishur · 10-12-2010 03:54PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Put simply - the higher the tax on company profits, the less profits they hold. Less profit for a company is going to have a direct result on company wages. So in the south, if a company is charged at 12.5% on income and gain profits - and 28% in the north - Why would this not be reflective on employee wages?

Oh of course you're correct. That must be why we have so many super-profitable companies.

dlofnep · 10-12-2010 03:57PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Oh of course you're correct. That must be why we have so many super-profitable companies.

Facebook, Google, Microsoft..?

Aka Ishur · 10-12-2010 04:12PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Facebook, Google, Microsoft..?

These are in no way our companies.

1) After having worked at entry level at two of these companies (starting at 9.56 p/h) I would say that they are here for the tax advantages, not minimum wage. (and when i say entry level i mean no qualifications, bottom rung.) The minimum wage affects the small business, the manufacturers, primary sector and service sector employees. Not saying it doesn't effect these people, but that the effect that you imagine is nonexistent.

2) Say a manufacturer starts up. It's product is hugely popular and growth is phenomenal. It starts making massive profits. Are you saying it should legally be obliged to divide all these profits among its minimum wage workforce. To cut down on this disgraceful profit? And what happens then when the product wanes in popularity? All of a sudden the company can't afford this inflated wage. They want to reduce wage, the unions kick up, strikes ensue, productivity falls, company fails. Everybody out of a job. Nice one.

dlofnep · 10-12-2010 04:17PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

These are in no way our companies.

It probably has more to do with the fact that they are unable to compete with multinationals, and the bureaucracy with setting up a company in Ireland.

There should be a two-tier corp tax system that provides a lower rate of tax for indigenous companies, to allow them to be competitive against companies with already a strong foundation on a global scale. That, and the tape for setting up companies should be streamlined.

dlofnep · 10-12-2010 04:22PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

2) Say a manufacturer starts up. It's product is hugely popular and growth is phenomenal. It starts making massive profits. Are you saying it should legally be obliged to divide all these profits among its minimum wage workforce.

It is legally obliged to pay the minimum wage. I don't mention discussing anything beyond the minimum wage.

But as a rule of thumb, workers should and generally do see returns with high profit margins. Where I work, bonuses are often given when targets are met. Why should the employee not reap the rewards too? What is a company without it's workers?

If a company pays less tax on it's profits and gains - then the Irish public doesn't see a penny of it. So less tax with lowered wages is sucking the Irish workers dry I'm afraid. In the north, it could be argued that because companies are paying up to 28% corp tax on profits and gains, that the public is seeing a higher return - and therefore, because the cost of living is lower - it is acceptable to have a lower minimum wage than a state that has a lower corp tax rate, but slightly higher minimum wage.

Aka Ishur · 10-12-2010 04:25PM

dlofnep wrote: »

It probably has more to do with the fact that they are unable to compete with multinationals, and the bureaucracy with setting up a company in Ireland.

There should be a two-tier corp tax system that provides a lower rate of tax for indigenous companies, to allow them to be competitive against companies with already a strong foundation on a global scale. That, and the tape for setting up companies should be streamlined.

1) Absolutely agree on the tape business. Completely correct that the cost of setting up business in Ireland is ridiculous. However, the number one cost of a manufacturer is labour, not red tape.

2) Two-tier tax system is both illegal and impossible, and anyways defeats the purpose of inviting multinationals to set up here. (Google, facebook, Microsoft) Unless you are proposing an indiginous corp tax even lower than the one we have, which would simply be circumvented by buying an office in Dublin, and the multinational selling the company to that office for 1c.

Dorcha · 10-12-2010 04:31PM

I wonder has anyone asked Lenihan and Cowen to explain, exactly, how the minimum wage will benefit the economy. The only people who will benefit, as far as I can see, are the employers, who will now make a larger profit. Some of them have claimed that lower wages will mean that they can employ more people. Please note how they phrased it. They can, not they will. They are business people, dedicated to making as big a profit as they can. If they are managing to run their businesses now with the employees that they have, then they are unlikely to employ more. They will simply pay the new minimum wage and pocket the extra profit, thank you very much Mr. Lenihan.

Lower wages for employees will see less money going back into the economy and less tax going to the government. It’s impossible to understand what motivated them to do this to other human beings. Are they simply automations, controlled by the ECB and the IMF? Unlikely, because robots would easily calculate that lowering the minimum wage would not being in more money to the government, nor stimulate the economy. No. They are simply human beings so despicable that they care nothing for the sufferings of others. They are greedy, selfish and arrogant. I hope the electors will remember who voted this despicable bill through when the general election comes around.

Gormal · 10-12-2010 04:37PM

Since you are talking about the UK minimum wage you should also be aware of the perks they get. In Scotland anyway.

1 They get a working tax credit and if they have children, a child tax credit from the Inland revenue which tops up their income.*:)
2 They have free healthcare*:D
3 They have free education, you only have to pay for the uniform, but low income families can claim a clothing allowance for this. Free school meals.:D

The downside is you have to pay full rent and council tax(includes refuse & water rates):(

dlofnep · 10-12-2010 04:39PM

Aka Ishur wrote: »

1)
2) Two-tier tax system is both illegal and impossible, and anyways defeats the purpose of inviting multinationals to set up here. (Google, facebook, Microsoft) Unless you are proposing an indiginous corp tax even lower than the one we have, which would simply be circumvented by buying an office in Dublin, and the multinational selling the company to that office for 1c.

To be classified as indigenous it would have to be founded originally in Ireland, and by an Irish citizen. I would propose a 10% tax rate for them. Even if we were to maintain the status quo - to at least offer more support, and cut the red tape for people setting up with businesses.

Re: Labour costs - That could be argued to any level. Someone could in theory argue that companies should have a minimum wage of €5 to allow companies to employ more people. At what point does it stop?

Aka Ishur · 10-12-2010 04:43PM

It is a fact that this will be a small help for new startups to grow in the country. It must however be partnered with a reduction in the red tape to be effective.

I do not see many companies cutting existing workers wages. (52,000 people on the minimum wage at the moment) I imagine this will effect mainly part time, and contract level workers, all of which have no tax output, and low buying power, where a 12% drop will have a low effect on the actual economy.

astrofool · 10-12-2010 04:54PM

dlofnep wrote: »

It probably has more to do with the fact that they are unable to compete with multinationals, and the bureaucracy with setting up a company in Ireland.

There should be a two-tier corp tax system that provides a lower rate of tax for indigenous companies, to allow them to be competitive against companies with already a strong foundation on a global scale. That, and the tape for setting up companies should be streamlined.

You expect Irish companies to compete with Facebook/Google/Microsoft/Intel?....

Aka Ishur · 10-12-2010 04:57PM

dlofnep wrote: »

To be classified as indigenous it would have to be founded originally in Ireland, and by an Irish citizen. I would propose a 10% tax rate for them. Even if we were to maintain the status quo - to at least offer more support, and cut the red tape for people setting up with businesses.

Yes we both agree red tape must be cut, But as to your indigenous tax- whats to stop Google hiring me to start the office in Dublin, to buy Google, to get the tax. And if you make that illegal you -
a) forbid foreign investment in Irish start-ups.
b) forbid Irish startups taking often what is often the fastest route to expansion which is of course acquisitions.

dlofnep wrote: »

Re: Labour costs - That could be argued to any level. Someone could in theory argue that companies should have a minimum wage of €5 to allow companies to employ more people. At what point does it stop?

Of course this can be argued, the minimum wage should be an instrument to balance all these moral arguments, with the business arguments. This balance is where a person can get a foot on the working ladder, where the wage isn't unsustainably pushing up inflation, and as a partner to that the cost of living. Which by all evidence it was, to a small degree.

Permabear · 10-12-2010 05:22PM

This post has been deleted.

t0mm13b · 10-12-2010 05:37PM

I'd like to put in my input into the OP... the way I see it is this - the minimum wage is correlated to the cost of living... this will attract a few who will think this is nothing short of a farce but to be quite blunt - I think the minimum wage should go down a bit more - by at least 2 euro. Now before you go knocking me here's my take as to why

We have the lowest corporation tax rate of 12.5%

You may say so fcukin what... I say, hey we need the jobs instead of being outsourced to the likes of Poland (think Dell here for this instance) or India.... that surely will help ourselves to kick up a gear and get competitive... that I personally believe is why we've sunk downwards - we got too greedy and demanded a high minimum wage... from 8.65 euro to what I think should be 6.25... face it, am sorry for harshness but this is a real wake up call....

we all need to cop on and stop sitting on both sides of the fence -
- on the one side... bitch about the minimum wage and getting the unions to flex their muscles demanding the government to increase it and keep the Croke Park Agreement, meanwhile bitching, the ones that are happy to work (more than likely migrant workers) will take those jobs....
- on the other side... moan and complain about "lack of jobs"...while feverishly trying to get the CV out the door and get head hunted and you wonder why!

That is my view of it, and unfortunately.... we all are in this, we demanded too much... got greedy and so on, so I reckon that minimum wage should go down to 6.25, plus 12.5% corporation tax rate, that will give an incentive for foreign multinationals to recruit... the bosses will say "Wow! Better workforce that has good english, viable wage, plus low tax..., we're on to a winner here".... why not? That is exactly what happened to Dell when they set up the factory in Poland (as a FYI Poland's minimum wage is 1.67 or thereabouts.... put that into perspective)

Not alone that, with that in place, that would push down the cost of living i.e. everything would be cheaper... from shopping for food, to clothes etc... that is my logical thinking....

Sorry if you disagree and flame me... but am entitled to an opinion... to knock my input is what the government is doing - silencing people, so please think about it before you post an angry reply to this.

ei.sdraob · 10-12-2010 05:49PM

dlofnep wrote: »

The minimum wage in the north at the moment is €7.03 - The new proposals to reduce the minimum wage in the south to €7.65 is nothing short of a farce. The Irish worker is being sucked dry.

Not only does the north have a significantly lower cost of living, but it also has a significantly higher corp tax (more than double than of the south at up to 28%).

Despite this - the new minimum wage will be almost equal that of the north, splitting the difference of only 62 cents per hour of work.

The Irish people are being taken for a ride. And as usual, the majority of those who favour this new minimum wage, are those who earn substantially beyond that of the minimum wage.

The Irish worker is better than the Northern Irish worker

hence he/she deserves better wages

:rolleyes: :pac:

djpbarry · 10-12-2010 05:51PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Despite this - the new minimum wage will be almost equal that of the north, splitting the difference of only 62 cents per hour of work.

What’s the difference after tax deductions?

dlofnep wrote: »

Facebook, Google, Microsoft..?

How many minimum wage workers are employed in Ireland by those companies?

dlofnep wrote: »

Re: Labour costs - That could be argued to any level. Someone could in theory argue that companies should have a minimum wage of €5 to allow companies to employ more people. At what point does it stop?

Someone could in theory argue that companies should have a minimum wage of €9.65 to allow employees more disposable income. At what point does it stop?

djpbarry · 10-12-2010 05:54PM

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Those who earn minimum wage and are facing a drop clearly don't want a reduction in their income.

As a point of clarification, it should be pointed out that the new minimum wage will only apply to new hires. Those currently earning €8.65 per hour will not suddenly see their income drop to €7.65, as such would (presumably) constitute a breach of contract.

Dorcha wrote: »

They are simply human beings so despicable that they care nothing for the sufferings of others.

I’m pretty sure €7.65 per hour is sufficient to alleviate suffering.

t0mm13b · 10-12-2010 06:03PM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

The Irish worker is better than the Northern Irish worker

hence he/she deserves better wages

:rolleyes: :pac:

Why? That's the thing I just do not get - "The irish worker deserves better wages" ffs... wake up.... by demanding that - the cost of living pushes upwards and no multinational would touch Ireland Inc with a bargepole.... we're no more important then the North, nor the North no more important to the south, We're no more important to the Germans, and the Germans are no more important to us....

That's the mentality we have here... time to shed that and get real!:eek:

Padkir · 10-12-2010 06:29PM

t0mm13b wrote: »

Why? That's the thing I just do not get - "The irish worker deserves better wages" ffs... wake up.... by demanding that - the cost of living pushes upwards and no multinational would touch Ireland Inc with a bargepole.... we're no more important then the North, nor the North no more important to the south, We're no more important to the Germans, and the Germans are no more important to us....

That's the mentality we have here... time to shed that and get real!:eek:

Eh...I think it was a joke...:rolleyes:

t0mm13b · 10-12-2010 06:32PM

@Padkir: Hmmm okay... but the joke is on you considering the way you said it.....

ei.sdraob · 10-12-2010 06:45PM

t0mm13b wrote: »

@Padkir: Hmmm okay... but the joke is on you considering the way you said it.....

Yes it was a sarcastic joke

For some reason some people think that the inhabitants of the southern part of this island are all smart whoors deserving of a better standard of living than the rest of the world, because erm were smarter and have this smart green economy that is based on not so smart lending and over-construction

What's more interesting is that the OP is self declared SF'er who wants a united Ireland, but has a problem with almost similar min wage

Maybe one day he would realize that the reason we have higher cost of living is partly due to higher wages, we did have a classic wage<>price spiral in Ireland

K-9 · 11-12-2010 01:27AM

dlofnep wrote: »

The minimum wage in the north at the moment is €7.03 - The new proposals to reduce the minimum wage in the south to €7.65 is nothing short of a farce. The Irish worker is being sucked dry.

Not only does the north have a significantly lower cost of living, but it also has a significantly higher corp tax (more than double than of the south at up to 28%).

Despite this - the new minimum wage will be almost equal that of the north, splitting the difference of only 62 cents per hour of work.

The Irish people are being taken for a ride. And as usual, the majority of those who favour this new minimum wage, are those who earn substantially beyond that of the minimum wage.

After tax and NIC in the North, it's £196 per week (€234).

The Salary Calculator - Take-Home tax calculator

There'll be no tax on the new minimum wage here, just the social levy leaving €290 per week.

Irish PRSI PAYE Tax Calculator Ireland Budget 2011 budget 2009 budget 2012 budget 2010 karl grabe

johnnyskeleton · 11-12-2010 07:32PM

dlofnep wrote: »

Because despite having similar minimum wage levels, one state has a much higher cost of living and much lower corp tax. Money goes much more up north. So if you have two workers, doing the same job - one will see much more return for their wages than the other.

The solution to this problem is not to keep Irish minimum wage high, but to reduce the cost of living we have to stop paying ourselves so much. Also, when you pay more for a good in the Republic than in the North, part of the reason it is more expensive here is because of the higher labour costs involved with it.

dlofnep wrote: »

We offer a competitive labour market. Very few nations in the developed world offer corp tax at the levels that we offer. Either corp tax is or is not an incentive.

It's an incentive for companies to funnel their profits through our country. If we were a bit more competitive in our labour costs, then we should be able to attract labour intensive industries.

dlofnep wrote: »

Businesses won't survive if there is less disposable income per family.

Yes they will. It will just become more competitive but that is made up for by the reduction in wages for their staff.

dlofnep wrote: »

No I don't. You can save your patronising comments for someone else, thank you.

There are many contributing factors to a high cost of living. Ireland being a small country, with a low population, and huge monopoly-driven economics which can dictate the cost of goods is a huge factor.

Ok. If you do understand how it works then you should realise that high prices are caused by more money chasing the same amount of goods. We can't simply ignore that.

dlofnep wrote: »

I think you misconstrued my point. My point was that the cost of living in the north is substantially lower than it is here, and the cost of operating a business is substantially higher - but yet, we still will have a similar minimum wage - despite the reality that we are getting far less return - through pay and through tax.

Look, it's perfectly simple. If people can survive on the lower minimum wage in the North and the economy doesn't collapse around them, we can do the same thing. However, we have driven ourselves into a corner where we pay ourselves too much money.

dlofnep wrote: »

It's irrelevant? I think it's very relevant as it will be those people who are directly affected by it. Since when did their interests become irrelevant?

Because it is a macro economic issue. It's a bit silly to suggest that the only people who can decide what the mimimum wage is are the people who are on it. Obviously they will vote for as much money as possible, untill there is no one left employed when our minimum wage becomes €1m per year.

dlofnep wrote: »

I suppose you've done a public survey to demonstrate how happy people would be to work for less than the minimum wage? Or are you just disingenuously hypothesizing? I would hazard a guess that the majority of the people on the dole would like to earn a fair wage should they find work.

There are several reports in the media and so forth about people who work illegally for less than the mimimum wage. Also, I hate this talk about fairness. It implies that the unsustainably high wages and social welfare of the bubble are actually fair but they are not. So what is a fair wage? Well, obviously it is a wage that people can live on. By its very definition, it is the lowest possible wage. Anyone who is more productive than the minimum is entitled to bargain their wages upwards of the minimum.

johnnyskeleton · 11-12-2010 07:37PM

djpbarry wrote: »

As a point of clarification, it should be pointed out that the new minimum wage will only apply to new hires. Those currently earning €8.65 per hour will not suddenly see their income drop to €7.65, as such would (presumably) constitute a breach of contract.
I’m pretty sure €7.65 per hour is sufficient to alleviate suffering.

Well what has happened is that people have been asked to take pay cuts but those cuts can't be cut down below the minimum wage.

Now companies that are at risk of closure will offer their minimum wage employees a pay cut to keep their jobs.

So it could potentially cause people currently on minimum wage to get pay cuts.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 15-12-2010 02:00PM

Its certainly a tough one.

Sure it may mean more jobs or more job security for people in employment but I certainly feel for a full timer on minimum wage living in Dublin.

Look at it this way - someone working full time @ minimum wage is losing E37.50 a week yet people on the dole only lose 8euro!

Not exactly an incentive to work now is it?

Wonder will many move to Belfast like this time last century. I can confirm dlofnep's telling the truth about money going further up there. Can get a nice double bedroom 10min walk from Belfast city centre for 50 pound a week if you're house sharing. And a nice pint of Guinness for 3quid

How would those two work out in Dublin?

djpbarry · 16-12-2010 09:26AM

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I can confirm dlofnep's telling the truth about money going further up there. Can get a nice double bedroom 10min walk from Belfast city centre for 50 pound a week if you're house sharing. And a nice pint of Guinness for 3quid

Yeah, but on the downside, you have to live in Belfast.

Minimum wage nearing northern levels..

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