Are Irish women too prudish around other women?

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 09:52AM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

And what do you think has led to such a culture?! People grow up watching others hiding their bodies and unable to even label body parts correctly or discuss basic function and it will have a knock on effect on body image and how comfortable people are with those bodies, even subconsciously.

It's not my experience in the UK - I can't remember people ever getting changed in toilets for sleep-overs or everyone hiding under towels at the swimming pool. Of course there are going to be people who are self-concious regardless because they are just self-concious people but IME there is a more pronounced general attitude towards nudity, among other things here than anywhere else I've ever been. That might just be co-incidence of course, but as it's a fairly common observation, I somehow doubt it.

I don't think that there are many people in Ireland who can't label body parts or discuss basic functions! It's taught in junior cert Biology for a start. And you might not have noticed people hiding their bodies in the UK, but I certainly did - but unfortunately both our views are based on personal experience rather than a statistical survey!
Also, shouldn't we be casting the net wider? What about the USA? Remember the outcry over Janet Jackson's nipplegate? For a huge population, the proportion of nudist beaches is not that large, and it's certainly a lot more common for people to wear togs on the beach. Maybe the reticence about shedding clothes is an English-speaking phenomenon?!

Ickle Magoo · 05-01-2011 10:02AM

I was thinking more of experiencing irish parenting boards and the wide variety of pet names for various body parts that are taught in place of the real ones rather than adults actually not knowing them - and PI is filled with people who haven't been told how their bodies work or feel shame in what they should enjoy...I'm not sure it's something that it's possible to deny at this stage, tbh.

Of course it's personal experience but my group of friends all from different parts of the world astonishingly all came to the same conclusion based on our own experiences - try asking someone not from here if ireland is a sexually liberated country where everyone is comfortable with sex, sexuality and nudity they will most probably laugh.

The US has "the bible belt" and lots of vocal conservative christians - see a theme? :pac:

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 10:08AM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I was thinking more of experiencing irish parenting boards and the wide variety of pet names for various body parts that are taught in place of the real ones rather than adults actually not knowing them - and PI is filled with people who haven't been told how their bodies work or feel shame in what they should enjoy...I'm not sure it's something that it's possible to deny at this stage, tbh.

Of course it's personal experience but my group of friends all from different parts of the world astonishingly all came to the same conclusion based on our own experiences - try asking someone not from here if ireland is a sexually liberated country where everyone is comfortable with sex, sexuality and nudity they will most probably laugh.

The US has "the bible belt" and lots of vocal conservative christians - see a theme? :pac:

Don't really see why using pet names for body parts is that big a deal - that's universally done isn't it? Not sure about PI and whether that's representative of people in general or different to what you would find on a similar forum in at least some other countries. Maybe, maybe not?
I do think you are right that Irish people are not comfortable with nudity, and certainly not as comfortable as continentals. And you are right, the US has plenty of vocal conservative Christians, but has Britain? Or Australia? Or New Zealand? All English-speaking countries with no great taste for nudity.

Gyalist · 05-01-2011 10:13AM

The strange thing is that even from a very young age, women in Ireland generally dress far more revealingly for a night out than other Europeans (with the exception of Britain), yet seem to have this mortal dread of being naked in reasonably private spaces.

Ickle Magoo · 05-01-2011 10:22AM

Jelly2 wrote: »

Don't really see why using pet names for body parts is that big a deal - that's universally done isn't it? Not sure about PI and whether that's representative of people in general or different to what you would find on a similar forum in at least some other countries. Maybe, maybe not?
I do think you are right that Irish people are not comfortable with nudity, and certainly not as comfortable as continentals. And you are right, the US has plenty of vocal conservative Christians, but has Britain? Or Australia? Or New Zealand? All English-speaking countries with no great taste for nudity.

Not where I come from no. I had never actually heard of the concept of a pet name for child's genitalia before moving here - infact real names are recommended to deter child abuse afaik. Well, PI was just me trying to offer more than personal testament - I'm not sure it's representative either but put together with news articles, radio programmes, a mixture of forums and talking to a wide variety of people from a wide variety of countries and a prevailing theme is certainly evident - how prevailing is subjective, of course.

I've never known Australians or New Zealanders to be particularly body concious, tbh - the US yes, although one could argue hang-ups are going to be exported with large numbers of emigrates. There is a well known stereotype of "It's just not British" type conservative and prudish attitude in the south of england but that's not something that's commonly shared by the whole 60 million population in the UK. Of course, this is all me making huge generalities about swathes of population and like here, the younger the generation the less prudish they tend to be.

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 11:05AM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Not where I come from no. I had never actually heard of the concept of a pet name for child's genitalia before moving here - infact real names are recommended to deter child abuse afaik. Well, PI was just me trying to offer more than personal testament - I'm not sure it's representative either but put together with news articles, radio programmes, a mixture of forums and talking to a wide variety of people from a wide variety of countries and a prevailing theme is certainly evident - how prevailing is subjective, of course.

I've never known Australians or New Zealanders to be particularly body concious, tbh - the US yes, although one could argue hang-ups are going to be exported with large numbers of emigrates. There is a well known stereotype of "It's just not British" type conservative and prudish attitude in the south of england but that's not something that's commonly shared by the whole 60 million population in the UK. Of course, this is all me making huge generalities about swathes of population and like here, the younger the generation the less prudish they tend to be.

Well, when I worked in France, the family for whom I worked used the term 'kiki' to refer to the penis of a child. This was not a word they just made up, it was common slang (One of my jobs was helping to look after the children).
Anyway, you elaborate partly on the point that I was trying to make in mentioning other English-speaking countries in your second paragraph! I think that it's not just a Catholic 'thing' as many seem to assume by using terms like 'Catholic guilt' (as if Catholics are the only Christians to suffer a guilt arising from a belief in the suffering and sacrifice of a God for mankind's sins), but something else to do with anglophone civilisation. But I can't put my finger on exactly what that might be - maybe your final comment above has something to do with it? Restraint and reserve as fundamental values etc?

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 11:13AM

Another thing about Britain! I don't know any other country that has such a 'peekaboo' way of dealing with sex - Carry-on, Page Three - it's all tongue-in-cheek, hints (albeit sometimes fairly blatant) and innuendo rather than full frontal nudity if you like. It's the equivalent of giving petnames or joke names to body parts! I suppose it neutralises the serious or 'dangerous' or unsettling elements of anything to do with sex....

05-01-2011 11:31AM

I don't think its anything to do with catholic church or anything like that ..thats a form of lazy thinking blame the catholic church for everything ...people have to take responsibly for them selves thats for another thread:p....

Some of it is understandably to do with ideas of beauty and perfection and feeling inadequate if you don't think you look like that...i am lucky that i am matter of fact about my body.

Ickle Magoo · 05-01-2011 11:45AM

Jelly2 wrote: »

Another thing about Britain! I don't know any other country that has such a 'peekaboo' way of dealing with sex - Carry-on, Page Three - it's all tongue-in-cheek, hints (albeit sometimes fairly blatant) and innuendo rather than full frontal nudity if you like. It's the equivalent of giving petnames or joke names to body parts! I suppose it neutralises the serious or 'dangerous' or unsettling elements of anything to do with sex....

I'm not sure if a comedy or tradition that's 40 odd years old is the same as people today finding the proper terms for genitalia so shameful or embarrassing that they can teach their child to say leg but not vulva...red tops would tend to have popularity specific to particular demographics as Carry On films are popular with the older generations rather than either being an important relevant social commentary. Go into any newsagent in the UK and there are shelves of much more explicit material now - not up on the top shelf like it used to be either! :eek:

Perhaps the general vociferous defensiveness also tells it's own story?

Edited to add:

Jelly2 wrote: »

Well, when I worked in France, the family for whom I worked used the term 'kiki' to refer to the penis of a child. This was not a word they just made up, it was common slang (One of my jobs was helping to look after the children).

Just on this point, there are literally dozens of common slang words for genitalia in every language, parents teaching & children knowing the anatomically correct title yet choosing to use common slang in everyday conversation wasn't really what I was talking about - an irish parenting forum was the first time I'd ever witnessed a discussion about parents deliberately avoiding teaching their children the proper names for their genitalia in favour of personally made-up pet names and cutesy titles; not generic slangs mind, anything made up to avoid having to say the real thing - I've since asked around about it and found that it's not actually that unusual to do that here. Whether that's common in other parts of the world, I have no idea - it's certainly something I had no idea happened prior to moving here.

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 11:57AM

I was thinking historically, but should have said so! But the demographic groups that you mention are large and still existing so while they may not represent everyone in Britain, the attitude that they present is still notable to the outsider.
You means Nuts or whatever it's called and those type of magazines I guess, by your final comment. True, more blatant, and more aggressively anti-women in many ways - better to be treated as a rack of meat a la Nuts or a simpering bunny as a P3? Hard choice:mad: But a discussion for a different thread...

Anyway, back to the issue at hand! The point about demographics is universal...in Ireland as much as anywhere else. Generally speaking, I think that age is hugely important in considering Irish women's attitudes to nudity. However, even my mother has gotten over her inclination to shield her body from her daughters!
But I also still think that 'modesty' was not just to do with Catholic teaching. Modesty was also a Protestant teaching, but it was also a secular virtue for generations....Modesty in dress and modesty in demeanour was thought to demonstrate modesty in character. Hence the Anglophone (not just British) preocupation with it?

metrovelvet · 05-01-2011 12:01PM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I was thinking more of experiencing irish parenting boards and the wide variety of pet names for various body parts that are taught in place of the real ones rather than adults actually not knowing them - and PI is filled with people who haven't been told how their bodies work or feel shame in what they should enjoy...I'm not sure it's something that it's possible to deny at this stage, tbh.

Of course it's personal experience but my group of friends all from different parts of the world astonishingly all came to the same conclusion based on our own experiences - try asking someone not from here if ireland is a sexually liberated country where everyone is comfortable with sex, sexuality and nudity they will most probably laugh.

The US has "the bible belt" and lots of vocal conservative christians - see a theme? :pac:

I dont remember anyone changing in the bathroom for sleepovers either or in the lockerroom for gym [the US]. We all just stripped off and changed in a shared room. Maybe one or two did, who were raised in cultures with particular modesty but as a rule no.

Neither do we use pet names for genitalia with kids as a general rule.

But Irish people imo are more self concious about everything always worrying about what the neighbors think and what other people thing, its a weird kind of self centredness or maybe symptomatic of a judgemental culture, in that the neighbors are judging you? People are judging you?

I do think there is a long legacy of repression and puritanism. James Joyce couldnt have come out of any other culture, its a straight out bi product of repressive puritanism.

To say its Catholic is hogwash. Too many other Catholic countries dont have this prudery.

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 12:05PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I dont remember anyone changing in the bathroom for sleepovers either or in the lockerroom for gym [the US]. We all just stripped off and changed in a shared room. Maybe one or two did, who were raised in cultures with particular modesty but as a rule no.

Neither do we use pet names for genitalia with kids as a general rule.

But Irish people imo are more self concious about everything always worrying about what the neighbors think and what other people thing, its a weird kind of self centredness or maybe symptomatic of a judgemental culture, in that the neighbors are judging you? People are judging you?

I do think there is a long legacy of repression and puritanism. James Joyce couldnt have come out of any other culture, its a straight out bi product of repressive puritanism.

To say its Catholic is hogwash. Too many other Catholic countries dont have this prudery.

Interesting about the US, and confuses me even more! So the French do use petnames, the Irish do, but the US and Britain doesn't...hard to know what to make of this!

Self-consciousness and fear of judgment are definitely at play, you are right. We aim to please, and fear we can't it seems. Is it too simplistic to link it to our historical past as a governed island?

Ickle Magoo · 05-01-2011 12:23PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

To say its Catholic is hogwash. Too many other Catholic countries dont have this prudery.

Other catholic countries are far more secular and don't allow their religious bodies such control over their societies, laws & behaviours up to present day - I'm not suggesting the catholic church single-handedly was the cause of puritanical ireland but I think it's impossible to discount the effect that generations of church led education and church control in politics and society at large and the dogmas and shames and puritanical stances, widespread and accepted up until very recently will have had on the irish psyche - the degree and longevity of which isn't as evident in other countries.

Jelly2 wrote:

Self-consciousness and fear of judgment are definitely at play, you are right. We aim to please, and fear we can't it seems. Is it too simplistic to link it to our historical past as a governed island?

No, I don't think so. I think it's also impossible to discount the effects of such devastating events as invasion, swathes of population dying of starvation and poverty and mass emigration - holding onto historic values and traditions for comfort or self-image issues could certainly be caused by such trauma.

parker kent · 05-01-2011 01:03PM

Dudess wrote: »

I think the Irish catholic guilt thing, bar in relation to older generations, can be over-estimated a bit at times...

It has given us inherited inhibitions about nudity, sex etc. Whilst the actual religious side of things is not as pronounced as before, the effects of Ireland being a Catholic country are felt. It would be odd if we went in 2 generations to being an open country about nudity or sexuality. Thought processes and beliefs still pass through the generations.

We are socialized in these behaviours, but they are changing a little each generation, but it takes time. This thread shows that people now view it as odd to think like this, but are still afraid to stand out. In another generation, that will probably change again.

Edit: When I say Catholic, I mean the particular form of Irish Catholicism that dominated the majority of public opinion. We are moving slowly from being an extremely conservative country to being more open. Also, Ireland was not as prudish in centuries past, that is a 20th Century phenomenon. Which is funnily enough the century that the Catholic Church had the most power in Ireland.

Reward · 05-01-2011 01:42PM

Jelly2 wrote: »

Most definitely! It's easy to explain it by 'Catholic guilt', but that's used too explain many things in Ireland too easily. I don't think it's got anything at all to do with guilt, it's more to do with a worry about how others will perceive our bodies...
Personally, I strip openly in a changing room, but I don't particularly like doing it. I don't find it liberating, it's just a way of getting ready for the pool handily!
On nudist beaches and the attraction of perverts, this is a problem apparently at one continental nudist beach at least - notably the Cap d'Agde mentioned above. There have been major 'clashes' between traditional nudists and swingers there this year, as reported in many newspapers. So it's not necessarily an Irish 'psyche' thing to have perverts attracted to nudes - why do we always have to think we are so different to everyone else, and always in a negative way too? Could our willingness to do so be linked to feelings of inadqequacy that also contribute to our unwillingness to undress publicly? I say that somewhat flippantly, but if we are going to explain everything by generalising about the Irish 'psyche', then it's as relevant a statement as anything else...

So swingers are threatening "perverts", where does that idea come from if not religion?

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 01:57PM

Reward wrote: »

So swingers are threatening "perverts", where does that idea come from if not religion?

Well, 'problems' in the sense that it is not swingers per se that are the problem as the naturalists see it - they say their problem is that a minority have been making them feel uncomfortable by performing sex acts on the beach.
Personally, I don't think swingers are perverts. As for where the idea that they are comes from, I don't know. Possibly religion, but since teachings on monogamous marriage predate Christianity or even Judaism I am not sure.

metrovelvet · 05-01-2011 01:59PM

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Other catholic countries are far more secular and don't allow their religious bodies such control over their societies, laws & behaviours up to present day - I'm not suggesting the catholic church single-handedly was the cause of puritanical ireland but I think it's impossible to discount the effect that generations of church led education and church control in politics and society at large and the dogmas and shames and puritanical stances, widespread and accepted up until very recently will have had on the irish psyche - the degree and longevity of which isn't as evident in other countries.

No, I don't think so. I think it's also impossible to discount the effects of such devastating events as invasion, swathes of population dying of starvation and poverty and mass emigration - holding onto historic values and traditions for comfort or self-image issues could certainly be caused by such trauma.

I think yes, the theocracy did not help. But I have not come across Catholocism like it anywhere else. Its the only country where the kiss of peace is a handshake.

It also strikes me historically, as being very similar to some Islamic attitudes. Maybe even worse.

05-01-2011 02:00PM

Of course swingers aren't threating perverts wouldn't not be my cup tea in the slightest.. each to his own ... but men on their own openly masturbating while on a nudist beach are!!!...which is apparently what has happened in Ireland....There isn't anything remotely sexual about swimming on a nudist beach...

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 02:02PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think yes, the theocracy did not help. But I have not come across Catholocism like it anywhere else. Its the only country where the kiss of peace is a handshake.

It also strikes me historically, as being very similar to some Islamic attitudes. Maybe even worse.

That's not true. The handshake is used in many churches worldwide. Did you know that the kiss of peace was in fact done on a board (the pax) passed around the congregation until the late sixteenth century, and was then universally abandoned until Vatican II in favour of the handshake? Now it's up to local churches whether they decide to use the kiss or the hand.

Eve_Dublin · 05-01-2011 02:21PM

Sorry, didn´t get a chance to read the last half of the replies...could it be something to do with the fact that we don´t have Summers here where you can reveal flesh whereas probably most countries in Europe, if not all bar the UK, do? I spent a lot of time naked here in Spain during the Summer a) because of the heat in my apartment...no ac and b) because everyone else was (nuddy lake up in the mountains...and to be honest, I was terrified at the start but if you keep on doing something you´re terrified of, you get over it. The Spanish have been running around half naked for about 50% of the year since they were born.

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 02:25PM

metrovelvet wrote: »

I think yes, the theocracy did not help. But I have not come across Catholocism like it anywhere else. Its the only country where the kiss of peace is a handshake.

It also strikes me historically, as being very similar to some Islamic attitudes. Maybe even worse.

Historically, both Catholic and Protestant attitudes had much in common with Islamic, although I don't think that women accused of adultery were normally stoned to death. So 'even worse' seems an excessive statement.
And no, I am not tarring all Muslims with the same brush, in case anyone is wondering.:)

cpeire · 05-01-2011 02:39PM

Jelly2 wrote: »

Well, 'problems' in the sense that it is not swingers per se that are the problem as the naturalists see it - they say their problem is that a minority have been making them feel uncomfortable by performing sex acts on the beach.

We can say from first hand experience this is true. There is an 'adult' section of the beach where couples can have sex, but you do get single guys having a look and a tug. In fairness it works well because the adult section is well away from the main resorts and families don't go there. There is plenty more beach for regular naturists.

The begging of the high season is quite a site when the age police come down to put a stop to it (three horses and about 12 policemen on regular patrols. Its unofficially tolerated outside of the high season (and it is fun!!)

It is totally understandable how the naturist have become upset with the swingers (speaking as swingers!). In the evening/night in the village you have to put on clothes (however skimpy). While nudity is supposedly mandatory a lot don't go nude during the day and if you go nude in the evening you actually get funny looks - we couldn't get over that in a nudist resort!

parker kent · 05-01-2011 04:51PM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Sorry, didn´t get a chance to read the last half of the replies...could it be something to do with the fact that we don´t have Summers here where you can reveal flesh whereas probably most countries in Europe, if not all bar the UK, do? I spent a lot of time naked here in Spain during the Summer a) because of the heat in my apartment...no ac and b) because everyone else was (nuddy lake up in the mountains...and to be honest, I was terrified at the start but if you keep on doing something you´re terrified of, you get over it. The Spanish have been running around half naked for about 50% of the year since they were born.

That is actually a good point. I don't dismiss what I said earlier about our culture, but the climate does have an impact on culture (I imagine that the extreme heat is a reason for head scarves being worn in the Middle East). There are very few periods in Ireland where I would want to run around Brittas Bay naked and shivering.

But the "what would the neighbours say" attitude is pretty big in Ireland too, I imagine much more so for women than men.

Eve_Dublin · 05-01-2011 04:58PM

parker kent wrote: »

That is actually a good point. I don't dismiss what I said earlier about our culture, but the climate does have an impact on culture (I imagine that the extreme heat is a reason for head scarves being worn in the Middle East). There are very few periods in Ireland where I would want to run around Brittas Bay naked and shivering.

But the "what would the neighbours say" attitude is pretty big in Ireland too, I imagine much more so for women than men.

And I genuinely believe this is why there seems to be so many women who dislike their bodies in Ireland. We never saw each other naked growing up so we could compare and contrast and see that most of what we probably dislike about ourselves is very common and very normal. The only time we get to see our bodies is alone in our bedrooms or during sex or on our holiers in Spain. And the only images of other women are those in Nuts, porn etc. What kind of role models do we have really? I know we blame most things on the weather in this country but we actually don´t have a culture of going to the beach in a bikini AT ALL. The reason why women cover themselves up on the ebach in Ireland? Because it´s bleedin´freezing.

nesbitt · 05-01-2011 05:05PM

I think in Ireland we are too hung up about our bodies. However I lived in the UK and they were similar and one of my office friends was from Far East and she could not go swimming because it would expose her body in a swim suit so ya know it could be worse....

However, I really dislike how some of the girls/ladies behave at my kids swimming lessons (NAC in Dublin). In the shower room, they parade around, loving themselves, with that kinda smug smile that says 'aren't I just so fabulous'.

I am all for for being comfortable, naked , happy in my own skin, wandering around and no one really giving a damn. Still working on it though and I guess you are all too!...:)

Eve_Dublin · 05-01-2011 05:07PM

nesbitt wrote: »

I think in Ireland we are too hung up about our bodies. However I lived in the UK and they were similar and one of my office friends was from Far East and she could not go swimming because it would expose her body in a swim suit so ya know it could be worse....

However, I really dislike how some of the girls/ladies behave at my kids swimming lessons (NAC in Dublin) they parade around, loving themselves, with that kinda smug smile that says 'aren't I just so fabulous'.

I am all for for being comfortable, naked , happy in my own skin, wandering around and no one really giving a damn. Still working on it though and I guess you are all too!...:)

What´s wrong with parading around and loving yourself??

You´re hoping to get to a stage where you can do the same and "no one giving a damn" but it seems to me like you give too much of a damn about other women doing the very same. Can´t you see the irony of your comment? We´ll never get anywhere with that kind of judgemental attitude.

parker kent · 05-01-2011 05:10PM

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I know we blame most things on the weather in this country but we actually don´t have a culture of going to the beach in a bikini AT ALL. The reason why women cover themselves up on the ebach in Ireland? Because it´s bleedin´freezing.

And that is where the attitude of "where is yer wan going?" starts whenever somebody breaks the norm and wears a bikini at the beach. It is odd to see people wearing a lot of clothes on the beach when we get good enough weather on occasion during the summer. It is changing and more bikinis are seen on Irish beaches in our mini heatwaves, but it is not that common. Certainly not like in other countries. You just have to hear the comments about how girls wear less during warm weather to see how showing skin is treated here.

Last summer during the warmest weather I was chatting with some female friends of mine around my age (23-25) and they were shocked to see some people in bikinis on the beaches in Wexford. All agreed it would be perfectly normal abroad. One actually used the line "what if somebody you know saw you?". I agreed with her too as it is just the done thing here.

But you are right to say that the weather does play a big role in creating that norm.

Dudess · 05-01-2011 05:14PM

I'm a bit irked by the idea that not wanting to bare all is akin to prudishness. I may be many things, but prudish is not one of them. And I don't like being naked in front of just anyone. I thought prudishness was sexual conservatism - yet the body isn't always sexual, so why is this deemed prudishness?

Jelly2 · 05-01-2011 05:15PM

parker kent wrote: »

And that is where the attitude of "where is yer wan going?" starts whenever somebody breaks the norm and wears a bikini at the beach. It is odd to see people wearing a lot of clothes on the beach when we get good enough weather on occasion during the summer. It is changing and more bikinis are seen on Irish beaches in our mini heatwaves, but it is not that common. Certainly not like in other countries. You just have to hear the comments about how girls wear less during warm weather to see how showing skin is treated here.

Last summer during the warmest weather I was chatting with some female friends of mine around my age (23-25) and they were shocked to see some people in bikinis on the beaches in Wexford. All agreed it would be perfectly normal abroad. One actually used the line "what if somebody you know saw you?". I agreed with her too as it is just the done thing here.

But you are right to say that the weather does play a big role in creating that norm.

It's funny, but it takes me about a month to get used to warmer weather from April onwards, and to take off a few of my winter layers...

Eve_Dublin · 05-01-2011 05:15PM

parker kent wrote: »

And that is where the attitude of "where is yer wan going?" starts whenever somebody breaks the norm and wears a bikini at the beach. It is odd to see people wearing a lot of clothes on the beach when we get good enough weather on occasion during the summer. It is changing and more bikinis are seen on Irish beaches in our mini heatwaves, but it is not that common. Certainly not like in other countries. You just have to hear the comments about how girls wear less during warm weather to see how showing skin is treated here.

Last summer during the warmest weather I was chatting with some female friends of mine around my age (23-25) and they were shocked to see some people in bikinis on the beaches in Wexford. All agreed it would be perfectly normal abroad. One actually used the line "what if somebody you know saw you?". I agreed with her too as it is just the done thing here.

But you are right to say that the weather does play a big role in creating that norm.

I´d have nothing but respect for a woman who wore a bikini on a beach in Ireland in the Summer. If it´s warm, then it´d be silly not to. In all honesty, I haven´t lived in Ireland long term for almost 7 years. I missed the good Summers it seems. I´d never knock anyone for wearing anything they like. Still, our Summers are nothing compared to most European Summers...an odd good day here there and I guess a lot of women wouldn´t feel "beach ready" (hate that marketing term) in this case. Spanish women go into full prepartion mode about March with sunbeds, plastic surgery (highest rate of surgery in Europe) etc. We don´t have that mentality in Ireland of getting "ready" for the Summer weather.

Are Irish women too prudish around other women?

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