I was going to complain but should I

cathy01 · 22-02-2011 03:29PM #1

I was watching Bredan O connors show the other night.He had David Norris on.Just as he ended, he had a caller with the answer to a quiz.The answer was lipsick, by Jedward.With that O Connor turned and called the caller a big poof.Now , Im not Gay, but some of my friends and family are.I just though that was terrible, I was going to complain but didnt know if I was over sensitive .Whats your thought s on. Thanks,cathy

bitter_lemon · 22-02-2011 05:04PM

sure brendan is a big poof himself

it was just a tongue in cheek comment. i'm not really a fan personally but he is definitely not anti gay.

i think this is a case of who says it and the meaning behind it. didn't see the show myself but i bet it he was just messing.

its like only the blacks can call themselves **** and the gays can call themselves fags or poofs. how dare anyone outside the circle say such things!

he is gay friendly. sure he did not mean any malice. it was just a joke. :pac:

cathy01 · 22-02-2011 05:11PM

Thanks so,Ill let it wash over me.:D
Cathy

bitter_lemon · 22-02-2011 05:26PM

let it go cathy let it go.

:D

deirdre_dub · 22-02-2011 06:19PM

I'm going to give a slightly dissenting opinion. I didn't find the remark funny. He associated lipstick with being a "poof" - there is nothing funny about either side of that association. And he clearly wasn't exactly being complimentary towards the caller when he called him a "poof".

I would have loved to have seen what Brendan's response would have been had the caller say "actually, I am homosexual" or "actually, I am transgender".

Would I make an official complaint? Well, let me put it to you this way - I haven't. This incident is part of the background cr*p that we all have to put up with. I'd love to see something happen as a result of what was said, but I'm not particularly inclined to make a huge case out of it.

bitter_lemon wrote:

its like only the blacks can call themselves **** and the gays can call themselves fags or poofs. how dare anyone outside the circle say such things!

I have to agree (in a non-sarcastic, serious, way) with the above comment.

It is one thing when my trans friends call me a "trannie" - it is quite another when a cis friend calls me the same thing. My trans friends know what it is like to be called a "trannie" as an insult, and so know how much "bite" that word has, and hence use it accordingly. My cis friends know none of these things.

ongarboy · 22-02-2011 06:31PM

Wow, I'm gay and did not know that tranny or trannie was a derogatory term. I assumed it was an abbreviation for transsexual/transgender. Not that it is a word I would have to use in everday conversation as I don't think I've ever had to say it out loud in the company of same. Thanks for the heads up though.

As regards B. O'C's comment on TV, when you know someone is saying it in a humourous or non malicious way as he did, then I don't take offence (nor I'm sure did David Norris who sat 2 feet away from him). I think if the LGBT community (and their friends) go up in arms about these types of scenarios, then it does not do us any favours and further alienates us instead of integrating us. Obviously, if it was not meant in that harmless way, I would take offence. I treat it the same way with people making humours references to Kerry people (I'm a proud Kerryman btw). If the context of the comment is meant to be taken in humour then I take no offence. Otherwise, I'd have fallen out with everyone I know who tells a Kerryman joke (and there have been many!).

KnifeWRENCH · 22-02-2011 06:36PM

ongarboy wrote: »

Wow, I'm gay and did not know that tranny or trannie was a derogatory term. I assumed it was an abbreviation for transsexual/transgender.

I always thought the term "tranny" was used for transvestites, not people who are actually transgender?

Maybe I'm totally mixed up but I'd see nothing wrong in jokingly referring to a transvestite as "tranny" but would never use it to describe a transgedner/transsexual person. If the term is actually an insult to transgender/transsexual people, then I've completely misunderstood what it actually meant!

youngblood · 22-02-2011 06:39PM

bitter_lemon wrote: »

its like only the blacks can call themselves **** and the gays can call themselves fags or poofs. how dare anyone outside the circle say such things!

If he had said !Nig~ers" would the reaction have been a bit different I wonder?!? (That word cant even be written on this forum for crying out loud!)

It seems its ok to joke about sexuality, not about race though

deirdre_dub · 22-02-2011 06:43PM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I always thought the term "tranny" was used for transvestites, not people who are actually transgender?

Let me put it to you this way - when a transphobic idiot on the street wants to (try to) insult me, they invariably use the word "tranny", hence I conclude that whatever the word is actually supposed to refer to, when it is applied to me, it is evidently meant to be offensive.

Dr. Baltar · 22-02-2011 06:45PM

The intent wasn't homophobic, so happy days.

deirdre_dub · 22-02-2011 06:47PM

youngblood wrote: »

If he had said ****** would the reaction have been a bit different I wonder?!?

It seems its ok to joke about sexuality, not about race though

I think there are two issues.

The first is, as others have said, intent. Breandan did not intend to be complimentary when he used the word "poof" - he meant to have at least a slight "dig" at the caller. Whether the caller found the "dig" to be humorous is something we don't know (but I very much doubt it).

The second thing is the historical use of the word. It takes time for a word's meaning to change. Taking the word "trannie" - in the present day, it is used by transphobic idiots to (try to) offend trans people of all types. That history cannot be ignored by anyone - trans or otherwise - who uses the word.

bitter_lemon · 22-02-2011 07:01PM

deirdre_dub wrote: »

It is one thing when my trans friends call me a "trannie" - it is quite another when a cis friend calls me the same thing. My trans friends know what it is like to be called a "trannie" as an insult, and so know how much "bite" that word has, and hence use it accordingly. My cis friends know none of these things.

i understand this. it bites in a caustic bitter way to the bone. my gay and straight friends can call me a dyke in a tongue in cheek way and its funny. but when an outsider says it in a derogatory way it hurts.
brendan is fairly accustomed to the gay circuit. he did not mean any malice. there was no intent there.
i think some people are making a mountain out of a molehill.
fight the war not the battles people

i'm sure he would roll his eyes if he saw these comments as i am doing right now :rolleyes:

bitter_lemon · 22-02-2011 07:06PM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I always thought the term "tranny" was used for transvestites, not people who are actually transgender? Maybe I'm totally mixed up but I'd see nothing wrong in jokingly referring to a transvestite as "tranny" but would never use it to describe a transgedner/transsexual person. If the term is actually an insult to transgender/transsexual people, then I've completely misunderstood what it actually meant!

its an umbrella term that covers all trans persuasions. it is definitely derogatory if a person outside the circle says it with malice.

bitter_lemon · 22-02-2011 07:09PM

youngblood wrote: »

If he had said !Nig~ers" would the reaction have been a bit different I wonder?!? (That word cant even be written on this forum for crying out loud!)

It seems its ok to joke about sexuality, not about race though

i just did! well for the time being anyway

no probably not. the race card would be shouted from the rooftops. lets not go down that road. if brendan was black he would have said it no bother.

cathy01 · 22-02-2011 07:10PM

I didnt see the full show, I do know that I cringed for David Norris, sitting there , being poked about his love life instead of his work and than having OConnor make that remark to the caller, and everyone laugh.If it where me, Id have said , well, I dont know, I was not impressed and found his jibe to be homopobic, and thought it encouraged people to laugh at Gay people.or Poofs as he put it.I hate it, I cant stand it.We went to a living library and I meet a lovely girl there , she was a book who opened her heart to me.You could ask her any question under the sun, and I did, she answered them and it was very very enlightening.Id hate to think, she was watching and was hurt by the remark, or that any of my Gay friends or anyone really.See, thats me a fuss pot.Sorry for going on,like I said I wont take it future but I appriciate the info on it.Cathy

bitter_lemon · 22-02-2011 07:18PM

cathy01 wrote: »

I didnt see the full show, I do know that I cringed for David Norris, sitting there , being poked about his love life instead of his work and than having OConnor make that remark to the caller, and everyone laugh.If it where me, Id have said , well, I dont know, I was not impressed and found his jibe to be homopobic, and thought it encouraged people to laugh at Gay people.or Poofs as he put it.I hate it, I cant stand it.We went to a living library and I meet a lovely girl there , she was a book who opened her heart to me.You could ask her any question under the sun, and I did, she answered them and it was very very enlightening.Id hate to think, she was watching and was hurt by the remark, or that any of my Gay friends or anyone really.See, thats me a fuss pot.Sorry for going on,like I said I wont take it future but I appriciate the info on it.Cathy

well the lesson you take away today is that all gay people are different. some see offense where there is none meant. but don't be thinking he was homophobic. he is nothing of the sort.

whatever would we do if we had nothing to fight for?

hotmail.com · 22-02-2011 07:35PM

I just don't really get why he said it? It seemed completely inappropriate.

deirdre_dub · 22-02-2011 08:19PM

bitter_lemon wrote: »

some see offense where there is none meant.

Maybe, but most aren't able to see into the heart and minds of others to know, for certain, if offense was meant. Most of us have to take other cues - cues like the historical meaning(s) of words, the context in which they are used etc.

but don't be thinking he was homophobic. he is nothing of the sort.

How do you know? Did you see the programme?

As someone else said, his comment was completely inappropriate. There was no rhyme or reason for it. He, for no reason whatsoever, hurled this word at the caller. And it was a word that has historically been used to insult gay people.

And, he also managed to bring transgender into it by associating men wearing lipstick with that word.

whatever would we do if we had nothing to fight for?

I'm taking from your comment that you have nothing left to fight for? If so, then I'm so very very glad for you! Truly!!!

Now, please don't try and tell me that, just because you and others don't have anything left to fight for, that that means that I don't have anything left to fight for either. Your life is evidently different to mine, so my fights aren't yours. Just because you are "done" doesn't mean that I am.

Anyhoo, once again, if it is what you are saying, then congratulations on having your relationship with society sorted!

deirdre_dub · 22-02-2011 08:29PM

The program is available on the RTE player - the Saturday Night Show - and the incident in question is at about 1h 04m 20s into the show.

This link might work

Donnaghm · 22-02-2011 08:41PM

It was quite gratifying to see the warm reception of the crowd to David Norris during that interview actually, even by the tough looking middle aged guys. I'll certainly be dropping my Blueshirt biases and voting for Norris in the Presidential election.

Annasopra · 22-02-2011 09:02PM

cathy01 wrote: »

I didnt see the full show, I do know that I cringed for David Norris, sitting there , being poked about his love life instead of his work and than having OConnor make that remark to the caller, and everyone laugh.If it where me, Id have said , well, I dont know, I was not impressed and found his jibe to be homopobic, and thought it encouraged people to laugh at Gay people.or Poofs as he put it.I hate it, I cant stand it.We went to a living library and I meet a lovely girl there , she was a book who opened her heart to me.You could ask her any question under the sun, and I did, she answered them and it was very very enlightening.Id hate to think, she was watching and was hurt by the remark, or that any of my Gay friends or anyone really.See, thats me a fuss pot.Sorry for going on,like I said I wont take it future but I appriciate the info on it.Cathy

Totally agree with you. It was an offensive statement. I did actually complain about it. I don't buy this bull**** that complaining about it is too pc.

Aard · 22-02-2011 09:37PM

Two things should probably be taken into account here:

a) Last time I heard somebody complain to RTE on grounds of homophobic content, they were shoo-shooed as being "vexatious".

b) Brendan O'Connor is a knob.

rainbowdrop · 23-02-2011 12:13PM

deirdre_dub wrote: »

It is one thing when my trans friends call me a "trannie" - it is quite another when a cis friend calls me the same thing. My trans friends know what it is like to be called a "trannie" as an insult, and so know how much "bite" that word has, and hence use it accordingly. My cis friends know none of these things.

Deirdre, do you mind me asking what a 'cis friend' is? I don't know what it means.....

Sorry for being thick:o

deirdre_dub · 23-02-2011 01:56PM

rainbowdrop wrote: »

Deirdre, do you mind me asking what a 'cis friend' is? I don't know what it means.....

"cis" is the opposite of "trans". Think "cisalpine gaul" versus "transalpine gaul" in the Roman Empire.

So my cis friends were born into the right body!

bitter_lemon · 24-02-2011 10:18PM

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Maybe, but most aren't able to see into the heart and minds of others to know, for certain, if offense was meant. Most of us have to take other cues - cues like the historical meaning(s) of words, the context in which they are used etc.
How do you know? Did you see the programme?

As someone else said, his comment was completely inappropriate. There was no rhyme or reason for it. He, for no reason whatsoever, hurled this word at the caller. And it was a word that has historically been used to insult gay people.

And, he also managed to bring transgender into it by associating men wearing lipstick with that word.
I'm taking from your comment that you have nothing left to fight for? If so, then I'm so very very glad for you! Truly!!!

Now, please don't try and tell me that, just because you and others don't have anything left to fight for, that that means that I don't have anything left to fight for either. Your life is evidently different to mine, so my fights aren't yours. Just because you are "done" doesn't mean that I am.

Anyhoo, once again, if it is what you are saying, then congratulations on having your relationship with society sorted!

wow! deirdre i find your comments just as bad. i did take the time to watch it. thanks for the link. i already said that i didn't see it - but now i have. as i thought it was just an off the cuff remark. :rolleyes:

its great that you think you know me and think i have my "battle" sorted. it will be a long hard road for any LGBT person who takes such offense as such a blase comment.

IMO this is not even worthy of a thread. if you are offended by his comments you need to chill and get a sense of humour. life can be tough at times - don't make it any harder by seeing fault when there is no malice

Annasopra · 24-02-2011 11:15PM

bitter_lemon wrote: »

if you are offended by his comments you need to chill and get a sense of humour.

I was offended. It wasn't funny but thanks anyway

Endymion · 24-02-2011 11:24PM

The debate is very simple. He meant it as an reproach against the caller, therefore there can be no debate about the justification of taking offence.

WRT the use of tranny, it's not reasonable to expect people to be aware that it's an offensive term, since whether or not it's offensive is entirely down to the audience, same with queer.

Lastly, I can't bring myself to ever get worked up about what this man has to say

CDfm · 25-02-2011 12:44AM

I am not gay & I made a complaint to the broadcasting authority on an issue I feel strongly about but it got bogged down in red tape.

In fact, I dont know what was more insulting , the TV show or my treatment by the Broadcasting Authority.

stephen_n · 25-02-2011 09:20AM

Obviously Brendan is a complete homophobe, we should get the lynching mob together now and call up to his house, send threatening and abusive emails and letters to the director general of RTE till the show is removed. Furthermore lets ban all humor from TV completely because every joke is offensive to someone except maybe the magic cow joke, although I'm pretty sure the cow maybe offended if it could actually get the joke.

Aard · 25-02-2011 09:40AM

Are you calling cows stupid? That's racist.

rochey84 · 25-02-2011 02:12PM

stephen_n wrote: »

Obviously Brendan is a complete homophobe, we should get the lynching mob together now and call up to his house, send threatening and abusive emails and letters to the director general of RTE till the show is removed. Furthermore lets ban all humor from TV completely because every joke is offensive to someone except maybe the magic cow joke, although I'm pretty sure the cow maybe offended if it could actually get the joke.

I couldn't agree with Stephen anymore, this is a little bit of political correctness gone mental, I understand why people are taking offense but itsi possible that BOC was just trying to make light of the whole "gay thing" the same way ppl make light of the whole "Metrosexual man" thing? I wouldn't worry about it too much and I would personally pick my battles but at the same time if you're offended I strongly recommend your complaints be taken to RTE where something can be done about it rather than whinging about it here.

Edit: I don't mean offence to anyone who is offended, I just mean that complaining here won't get you or your cause very far with RTE

Louisevb · 27-02-2011 09:46PM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I always thought the term "tranny" was used for transvestites, not people who are actually transgender? Maybe I'm totally mixed up but I'd see nothing wrong in jokingly referring to a transvestite as "tranny" but would never use it to describe a transgedner/transsexual person. If the term is actually an insult to transgender/transsexual people, then I've completely misunderstood what it actually meant!

The word "trannie" has become politically incorrect in some quarters mainly derived from the States... Personally I don't see that much wrong with it but prefer transgendered for myself...others tend to differ

Endymion · 01-03-2011 07:25PM

KnifeWRENCH wrote: »

I always thought the term "tranny" was used for transvestites, not people who are actually transgender? Maybe I'm totally mixed up but I'd see nothing wrong in jokingly referring to a transvestite as "tranny" but would never use it to describe a transgedner/transsexual person. If the term is actually an insult to transgender/transsexual people, then I've completely misunderstood what it actually meant!

Transvestites are transgender, it's an umbrella term.

I was going to complain but should I

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