Does John Gormley simply not get it?

amiable · 27-02-2011 11:24PM

Tarobot wrote: »

Why don't you let other posters worry about responses to their posts.

I gather you don't understand the concept of boards?
If you want a private discussion with a particular poster take it to pm.
If you don't want your posts questioned on boards don't post stupid posts.
Still don't want to back up your earlier post? Imagine that

jdooley28 · 27-02-2011 11:25PM

damonjewel wrote: »

the same guy who gave his support for the return of third-level fees that would involve a loan scheme to students.

what a disgrace!

Yeah sudents contributing to their education what a disgrace. If someone mentioned anything mad like that in the UK or the USA they locked up by the men in the white coats.

Atlantic Dawn · 27-02-2011 11:27PM

The biggest loser is the frogs, the €120,000 spent this year to count them by Gormley will likely not be spent again, ever

damonjewel · 27-02-2011 11:30PM

C14N wrote: »

Speaking as someone going into third level who will certainly not be entitled to a grant, this was, is and will be a necessary evil. FG will probably gradually re-introduce it over the next few years until the financial situation stabilises.

Speaking as someone who couldn't go to university back in 1987 as the fees were not affordable to my family. This is a crying shame. The introduction of the abolishment of 3rd level education fees in 1995 is for me a major landmark in our state's history.

Violafy · 27-02-2011 11:30PM

amiable wrote: »

I gather you don't understand the concept of boards?
If you want a private discussion with a particular poster take it to pm.
If you don't want your posts questioned on boards don't post stupid posts.
Still don't want to back up your earlier post? Imagine that

I don't think that particular post warranted a proper reply.

goat2 · 27-02-2011 11:31PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The biggest loser is the frogs, the €120,000 spent this year to count them by Gormley will likely not be spent again, ever

we are lucky they did not want us to count sheep,

Liam Byrne · 27-02-2011 11:31PM

Violafy wrote: »

I do actually think a sizeable proportion of people from Dublin are idiots as well. An FFer from my constituency almost got in, which is obviously disappointing, especially as I was hoping at least one Green would be elected from Dublin. Basically, there are a lot of idiots in Ireland, both rural and in Dublin. Oh, and I never refused to mention anything! I was merely makinf the point that support for FF remains stronger outside Dublin.

You specifically mentioned idiots from Cork & Limerick, avoiding any mention of Dublin whatsoever, as if there were none there. Given that you're from Dublin, I find that strange, because one of my first acknowledgements was that I was sickened that my city had returned a useless slandering perjuror.

Now you have corrected that, admitting there are idiots in Dublin too. You should have just been more careful the first time around not to try to make your city out to be above the others. As I said, both cities returned one FF TD each, with Limerick returning the useless O'Dea a lot later than Dublin returning the useless Lenihan.

So we've cleared that up. You basically should have included your city in the list of ones with idiots in them.

But now you've mentioned another phrase that's farcical - "both rural and in Dublin".

Essentially you are saying that you don't bother recognising or mentioning the other cities in the country, which is factually incorrect and insulting.

I despair of the condescending mindset of the Greens at times.

But the good news is that I don't have to worry about it anymore. They're history. Good riddance.

goat2 · 27-02-2011 11:36PM

this country needs a bit of common sense now, i am of farming background, firstly we can cut the turf, secondly spread the slurry when needed and not certain times, the cattle ****e all year round not just for a few weeks,

C14N · 27-02-2011 11:44PM

damonjewel wrote: »

Speaking as someone who couldn't go to university back in 1987 as the fees were not affordable to my family. This is a crying shame. The introduction of the abolishment of 3rd level education fees in 1995 is for me a major landmark in our state's history.

Sorry, I should have specified. I still think uni fees should not apply to those who don't have the means to pay them. Everyone should have a chance at college. However, fees need to be introduced for people who can actually pay them. Not full blown 50k a year like in the US, but a bit extra on top of what is already there.

Violafy · 27-02-2011 11:45PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You specifically mentioned idiots from Cork & Limerick, avoiding any mention of Dublin whatsoever, as if there were none there. Given that you're from Dublin, I find that strange, because one of my first acknowledgements was that I was sickened that my city had returned a useless slandering perjuror.

Now you have corrected that, admitting there are idiots in Dublin too. You should have just been more careful the first time around not to try to make your city out to be above the others. As I said, both cities returned one FF TD each, with Limerick returning the useless O'Dea a lot later than Dublin returning the useless Lenihan.

So we've cleared that up. You basically should have included your city in the list of ones with idiots in them.

But now you've mentioned another phrase that's farcical - "both rural and in Dublin".

Essentially you are saying that you don't bother recognising or mentioning the other cities in the country, which is factually incorrect and insulting.

I despair of the condescending mindset of the Greens at times.

But the good news is that I don't have to worry about it anymore. They're history. Good riddance.

Ahh, I realised just after posting my last reply that you'd take offence at the "both rural and in Dublin" thing. Apologies, as it's only natural for most people from Dublin to think of rurality rather than of a city when Limerick etc is mentioned. Nothing to do with whether we support the Greens or not! Obviously it's inaccurate, so sorry for any offence. There are, of course, other cities in the country. And I don't even like living Dublin, so I'm not being intentionally condescending towards other people. Basically, there are idiots everywhere. :mad:
I do hope you're wrong in saying that the Greens are history! The country needs their policies whether or not the economy is good. If they do a lot of thinking and learning from their mistakes in the next few years, I think they can get some seats back in the next election.

Ecu · 27-02-2011 11:52PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

I don't think you're the only one. The greens generated a lot of hatred for themselves, and that hatred has transfered to the whole green philosophy. I felt like burning a load of plastic in the back garden because I despised them so much.

Know what you mean, but now that they are gone I hope you'll start recycling that plastic again.

Sponge Bob · 27-02-2011 11:54PM

Violafy wrote: »

And I don't even like living Dublin, so I'm not being intentionally condescending towards other people.

I prefer living Dublin to dead Dublin myself, maybe it is personal rather than political though :cool:

I do hope you're wrong in saying that the Greens are history! The country needs their policies whether or not the economy is good. If they do a lot of thinking and learning from their mistakes in the next few years, I think they can get some seats back in the next election.

They will be lucky to pick up council seats next time ( AS IN 2014), never mind Dáil seats thereafter.

For starters they will need a complete refresh of their frontline personnel...bar Trevor.

Liam Byrne · 28-02-2011 12:00AM

Violafy wrote: »

Ahh, I realised just after posting my last reply that you'd take offence at the "both rural and in Dublin" thing. Apologies, as it's only natural for most people from Dublin to think of rurality rather than of a city when Limerick etc is mentioned. Nothing to do with whether we support the Greens or not! Obviously it's inaccurate, so sorry for any offence. There are, of course, other cities in the country. And I don't even like living Dublin, so I'm not being intentionally condescending towards other people. Basically, there are idiots everywhere. :mad:

Apology accepted, however it's not "only natural"........do Dublin folk go around saying that the Earth is flat ?

That's twice that careless Dublin-focussed phrasing meant that your posts were both factually incorrect and offensive. I'll accept your apology, but I'll stand over my point that that is the reason that the Greens get up the nose of the rest of the state.

Violafy wrote: »

I do hope you're wrong in saying that the Greens are history! The country needs their policies whether or not the economy is good. If they do a lot of thinking and learning from their mistakes in the next few years, I think they can get some seats back in the next election.

The Greens tried to tax existing options without providing alternatives. That is guaranteed to backfire. Provide the alternative and THEN charge people more for choosing the wrong option.

They also abandoned their polluter pays principle, which was a reason they got a vote from me previously, as I believe in finding a balance between responsible and sustainable options, and The Greens do not have a monopoly on that, and they lose my vote if they try to punish me despite my efforts.

They - of course - also lost my vote by going in with FF, staying in there despite the corruption, and reversing the motions on Anglo & NAMA in order to skew the "two-thirds" requirement in support.

So they're not required. A proper, non-one-issue party with an interest in Green issues is desirable, but one that focusses only on that in an unfair way and does things arseways is not.

patmac · 28-02-2011 12:05AM

Among their wonderful policies is the one where a low income person with a 10 year old car worth €800 pays 3 times as much road tax as someone who can afford to buy a €100,000 brand new merc.
How many seats did they win again? The country has spoken, good riddance and I doubt they will be back remember that other crowd that were in government with FF where are they now?

amiable · 28-02-2011 12:08AM

patmac wrote: »

Among their wonderful policies is the one where a low income person with a 10 year old car worth €800 pays 3 times as much road tax as someone who can afford to buy a €100,000 brand new merc.
How many seats did they win again? The country has spoken, good riddance and I doubt they will be back remember that other crowd that were in government with FF where are they now?

Very valid point.
I heard John Gormley on Matt Cooper show say the bus is available to everybody in the country

CDfm · 28-02-2011 12:18AM

amiable wrote: »

Very valid point.
I heard John Gormley on Matt Cooper show say the bus is available to everybody in the country

I always thought the Greens werea bit of a throwback to DeValera's comely maidens dancing at Crossroads - they would have to waiting for the bus

goat2 · 28-02-2011 12:52AM

amiable wrote: »

Very valid point.
I heard John Gormley on Matt Cooper show say the bus is available to everybody in the country

that is what proved to me that he was does not have a clue about how this country run once you leave dublin, there is no bus within four miles of my home, he does not have a clue

STIG83 · 28-02-2011 01:12AM

John Gormley should rename himself John Gormless. A clown is all he is

swiss · 28-02-2011 01:38AM

I also have to agree that there are very valid criticisms of the Greens in Government. For example, some of the decisions they have made, many of which have been mentioned, turned a lot of people against them. Perhaps most importantly of all, and this ensured they did not get my vote, they propped up a hated and discredited Government. They had an opportunity to head to the polls with their heads still held relatively high during the period of the renegotiation for Government. Had they taken that opportunity, and taken the principled stand then that they spoke about all of two years later, I very much think they would have kept perhaps half their representation, instead of losing it all.

However, with all that said, I do think that environmental issues are important, and I would hate to see some of the Green ideals, such as sustainable living, reforming the planning system, and bringing in civil unions/gay marriage lost as part of the agenda for Government. With that in mind, I am slightly sorry to see the extent of the Green collapse in the last election. I certainly expected (and wanted) them to lose some seats, but would have thought holding at least 1 would have been enough to keep the agenda alive.

Perhaps some of the other parties can take on some of this agenda minus the baggage associated with the Greens right now. I don't know. But I do know we should prepare for the oncoming end of the oil age. When that comes the financial crisis will look like a minor blip.

kincsem · 28-02-2011 01:42AM

Well at least Eamonn Ryan brought in post codes ...
... or did he? :rolleyes:

They did stop the incinerator, and the economy.

takun · 28-02-2011 01:43AM

patmac wrote: »

Among their wonderful policies is the one where a low income person with a 10 year old car worth €800 pays 3 times as much road tax as someone who can afford to buy a €100,000 brand new merc.

Which is stupid as well as unfair. The MOST polluting time of a car's entire life is when it is manufactured, from the production of the materials that make it to the manufacturing process itself. Taking perfectly good cars off the road to be replaced by new ones is not a positive thing for the environment.

I've a 1996 car that's well maintained and in perfect running order. I can't afford a new car, and to be honest I don't really want one, but I'm paying stupid tax to keep this one. On the other hand a better off friend recently availed of a scrappage scheme which saw a perfectly good 8 year old car which she owned from new and which had less than 60,000 miles on the clock pulped in favour of a newer model. How in the hell does that make any sense?

And don't even get me started on the fact that my partner can no longer legally take our son to school in his work vehicle, because it's a commercially registered 4wd.

I am very glad to see the back of Gormley and all who sailed in the green ship - and I voted for Mary White last time round, more fool me.

jbkenn · 28-02-2011 02:08AM

C14N wrote: »

Believe it or not, those "stupid windmills to generate power" are a very good thing for the country. I agree they should have looked more at nuclear power but wave, solar and wind are far from "nonsense" .

You obviously have no experience of wind and solar power generation in Ireland, I do, I run a small wind and solar powered repeater site for over 4 years now, newsflash... it does'nt work, granted the last three days we have been able to take advantage of the reasonable winds, but, having looked at the forecast for the next three days we will be back on the diesel generator again tomorrow.
From the Eirgrid site
http://www.eirgrid.com/operations/systemperformancedata/windgeneration/

jbkenn

hatrickpatrick · 28-02-2011 02:29AM

One of my favourite songs is called "Losing Touch", by The Killers. It's a song I listen to every time someone stabs me in the back, it captures the anger and despair you experience in that situation perfectly.

There's a chorus in the song which goes:

I ain't in no hurry, you go run and tell your friends I'm Losing Touch,
Fill the night with stories, the legend grows.....
Of how you got lost, but you made your way back home
You sold your soul, like a roaming vagabond,
Heard about how y6u got lost, but you made your way back home
You went and sold your soul, an allegiance dead and gone...
I'm losing touch.

Comes irresistably to mind when I think of the Greens. Very simply put, they sold their souls. They abandoned every single principle they professed to have for the chance to be in power.

They say that power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. Just how bad would the Greens have been if they had genuinely been in real power?

*shudder*

henryporter · 28-02-2011 07:03AM

Presumably any of yis that voted Labour did it in the full knowledge that Eamon Gilmore promised to INCREASE CARBON TAXES during his final debate on Primetime last week; add to that the fact that most parties have misappropriated most of the Greens policies at this stage anyway (a bit like companies selling environmentally friendly nuclear waste IMO)

ei.sdraob · 28-02-2011 08:42AM

Now now people, lets give credit to the Greens for helping reduce our oil dependence by 20% and 15% less carbon
all it took was being complicit in allowing the destruction of the economy and creating unemployment :rolleyes:

i propose we revert the country to a 19th century backwater to save the planet, anyone who cant fid a job or like it can go and emigrate, oh wait :rolleyes:

/sorry little dark humor on monday morning

amiable · 28-02-2011 10:02AM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Now now people, lets give credit to the Greens for helping reduce our oil dependence by 20% and 15% less carbon
all it took was being complicit in allowing the destruction of the economy and creating unemployment :rolleyes:

i propose we revert the country to a 19th century backwater to save the planet, anyone who cant fid a job or like it can go and emigrate, oh wait :rolleyes:

/sorry little dark humor on monday morning

Or people should only accept a job if its within walking distance of your home

Blowfish · 28-02-2011 10:13AM

patmac wrote: »

Among their wonderful policies is the one where a low income person with a 10 year old car worth €800 pays 3 times as much road tax as someone who can afford to buy a €100,000 brand new merc.
How many seats did they win again? The country has spoken, good riddance and I doubt they will be back remember that other crowd that were in government with FF where are they now?

Ironically enough, they are back in full swing.

The Greens are extremely unlikely to collapse as they have a proper grassroots cause. It wouldn't suprise me to see them recover quicker than FF will.

The Brigadier · 28-02-2011 10:29AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The biggest loser is the frogs, the €120,000 spent this year to count them by Gormley will likely not be spent again, ever

I think the French are the least of our worries.

ei.sdraob · 28-02-2011 10:33AM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The biggest loser is the frogs, the €120,000 spent this year to count them by Gormley will likely not be spent again, ever

How much they spend on a bird sanctuary while country was falling apart?

flutered · 28-02-2011 10:38AM

also they had the ifa removed from a farming body in brussels and had them replaced by birdwatch ireland, can some green voter explain the reasoning behind this.

Permabear · 28-02-2011 11:32AM

This post has been deleted.

d'Oracle · 28-02-2011 11:40AM

I don't entirely agree, but well said.

LostinBlanch · 28-02-2011 12:02PM

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The Greens tried to tax existing options without providing alternatives. That is guaranteed to backfire. Provide the alternative and THEN charge people more for choosing the wrong option.

All this after previous manifestos advocated making changes in a revenue neutral manner in order to make changes more palatable to the public. :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They also abandoned their polluter pays principle, which was a reason they got a vote from me previously, as I believe in finding a balance between responsible and sustainable options, and The Greens do not have a monopoly on that, and they lose my vote if they try to punish me despite my efforts.

It's for your own good you know, anyway you deserve to suffer for your apostasy. I mean imagine denying the Greens their monopoly on preaching about sustainibility. Imagine saying that others can act responsibly! Go wash your mouth out with soap (non bio of course).

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They - of course - also lost my vote by going in with FF, staying in there despite the corruption, and reversing the motions on Anglo & NAMA in order to skew the "two-thirds" requirement in support.

QFT, this was one of their more scurillous acts. One that proved to me that all members can have a say provided they say exactly what Gormley et al want them to say. Bad and all as abandoning their previously held principles about clean hands politics to go into the Dail and prop up Berties FF, this was the crossing of the Rubicon for me. Becoming willing accomplices in the transfer of billions of euro from the public purse to NAMA and Anglo was beyond the beyond. I could only imagine what Gormley et al would have said if they were in opposition and it was FF and the PDs doing this! Oh what a difference getting your backside in the ministerial merc sorry Prius makes. :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So they're not required. A proper, non-one-issue party with an interest in Green issues is desirable, but one that focusses only on that in an unfair way and does things arseways is not.

Absolutely, they are tainted goods and have damaged the Green brand. I see they're now whinging about their "deal with the devil". Well they were warned at the time and nobody held a gun to their head forcing them to go in. Those who couldn't stomach the deal left the party and many were derided as being afraid of power or worse still "headers." Look at the way they attacked Patricia McKenna. I disagree with her on many things but at least she stuck to her principles.

But of course Gormley in the end of his infamous Planet Bertie speech said couldn't handle the thought of another 5 years in opposition. Well John, you got what you asked for. It looks like you won't have another 5 years in opposition. Good riddance.

I know things were going to be bad for the country when they moved to prop up FF in 2007. But I never imagined that things would have gotten this bad.

2 stroke · 28-02-2011 12:03PM

The greens nailed their own coffin shut. John Gormley spent years trying to put me out of work, yet I voted green in 2007 because I wanted that road through Tara stopped. That cosy deal to let the previous minister sign that through, sickened me. That was when I decided never to support the greens again.
Being in partnership in Fianna Fail didn't remove Michael Lowry from politics.

STIG83 · 28-02-2011 06:23PM

Is that law they bought in bout people using their commerical vehicles outside work hours actually enforced? or has it been nipped in the bud since the Greens didnt get a seat in the Dail.

breadandjam · 28-02-2011 07:08PM

I don't think he does get it judging by his current puzzled martyred look. I gave the Greens a preference in the last election based on Trevor Sargent's promise that he wouldn't lead the party into govt. with FF. Yeah he fooled me with that one. To resign the leadership and then become a minister within an FF led cabinet was shameful. Likewise the party turning it's back on the Shell to Sea protesters was shameful. To hold on in government propping up a corrupt regime that no longer had a mandate from the people (no matter what Brian Cowen thought) was also shameful and lets not forget their ill judged plan on rotating ministers.

I still consider myself an environmentalist but I consider the current crop of greens just "mentalists". I'll still push for environmentally friendly policies but I won't vote for the Greens again.

Blowfish · 28-02-2011 07:24PM

STIG83 wrote: »

Is that law they bought in bout people using their commerical vehicles outside work hours actually enforced? or has it been nipped in the bud since the Greens didnt get a seat in the Dail.

I'm not quite sure where the idea that the Greens brought that in came from as that law has been there for decades. The only thing that happened was the dept sending out letters to the local authorities to keep an eye out for people abusing it to try and avoid paying tax.

Scofflaw · 28-02-2011 08:11PM

flutered wrote: »

also they had the ifa removed from a farming body in brussels and had them replaced by birdwatch ireland, can some green voter explain the reasoning behind this.

They replaced the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association representative with an Irish Environmental Network representative on the Farming and Forestry panel. The logic is obvious - the IFA were already there representing the interests of farming, continued to do so, and nobody was there representing environmental interests, which farming impacts.

Those are the kind of detailed pro-environmental moves I'll miss.

cordially,
Scofflaw

flutered · 28-02-2011 08:25PM

Scofflaw wrote: »

They replaced the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association representative with an Irish Environmental Network representative on the Farming and Forestry panel. The logic is obvious - the IFA were already there representing the interests of farming, continued to do so, and nobody was there representing environmental interests, which farming impacts.

Those are the kind of detailed pro-environmental moves I'll miss.

cordially,
Scofflaw

so we have part of the farming community without representation there then, i do believe that farmers are looking after the countryside to the best of their ability, where as other sections of the community do not give a you know what, a second farm representive on that board could do more than a green rep imo.

Paparazzo · 28-02-2011 08:46PM

Tarobot wrote: »

Which pretty much sums up the "cutting your nose despite your face" illogical hatred for the Greens on here.

Not really, burning a load of plastic doesn't effect me.

Bucklesman · 28-02-2011 08:53PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Not really, burning a load of plastic doesn't effect me.

It does if you're caught.

Paparazzo · 28-02-2011 09:23PM

Bucklesman wrote: »

It does if you're caught.

I'll do it on a bank holiday when none of the "Waste Management Enforcement Teams" won't be working! Or I'll just light a few of the neighbours bins. That'll show Gormley

amiable · 28-02-2011 09:31PM

Bucklesman wrote: »

It does if you're caught.

Its only wrong if you get caught

proon4 · 28-02-2011 09:35PM

whydoibother? wrote: »

I won't call them single-issue, but they're a single-area (environment) party. They're not equipped to lead us out of the crisis.

However, they're not as culpable as FF. The damage was done pre-2007 and as to the bailout, they may have been in government, but they didn't have the numbers to overrule FF - the curse of being the junior partner. You take the responsibility without really having had control over the situation you're taking responsbility for.

Dont talk nonsense... At any time they could have called halt.. But they held on and on. The ministerial pensions was the carrot that kept them time after time supporting the FF traitors. Good ridnance to them . let them go back to their teacher jobs, and bicycle repair shops.. They are a blight on this destroyed country of ours

Scofflaw · 28-02-2011 09:39PM

flutered wrote: »

so we have part of the farming community without representation there then, i do believe that farmers are looking after the countryside to the best of their ability, where as other sections of the community do not give a you know what, a second farm representive on that board could do more than a green rep imo.

That's one view, certainly, if slightly inaccurate, since the IFA represents all farmers. My view would obviously be different - I don't see any particular need to have a representative from an all-farming body, and then another representative from a specific subset of that.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Tarobot · 28-02-2011 09:49PM

Paparazzo wrote: »

Not really, burning a load of plastic doesn't effect me.

Backyard burning is the source of over 50% of Ireland's dioxins, furans and PCBs. The burning of plastic at a low and uneven temperature creates the compounds that have been linked to cancer, impacts on the endocrine, reproductive and immune system.

So yes it would affect you and your unfortunate neighbours.

amiable · 28-02-2011 09:52PM

Tarobot wrote: »

Backyard burning is the source of over 50% of Ireland's dioxins, furans and PCBs. The burning of plastic at a low and uneven temperature creates the compounds that have been linked to cancer, impacts on the endocrine, reproductive and immune system.

So yes it would affect you and your unfortunate neighbours.

Source?

Tarobot · 28-02-2011 09:56PM

amiable wrote: »

Source?

http://www.epa.ie/downloads/pubs/research/air/epa_ertdi_dioxin_emissions%20_ertdi3_synthesis.pdf

All uncontrolled combustion accounts for 75% but that figure includes things like forest fires, which don't happen very often.

Oh and here's a specific EPA press release that attributes "over 50%" to backyard burning:

http://www.epa.ie/news/pr/2006/oct/name,12301,en.html

amiable · 28-02-2011 10:00PM

Tarobot wrote: »

http://www.epa.ie/downloads/pubs/research/air/epa_ertdi_dioxin_emissions%20_ertdi3_synthesis.pdf

All uncontrolled combustion accounts for 75% but that figure includes things like forest fires, which don't happen very often.

Oh and here's a specific EPA press release that attributes "over 50%" to backyard burning:

http://www.epa.ie/news/pr/2006/oct/name,12301,en.html

Any chance of a proper source?

proon4 · 28-02-2011 10:02PM

Tarobot wrote: »

Backyard burning is the source of over 50% of Ireland's dioxins, furans and PCBs. The burning of plastic at a low and uneven temperature creates the compounds that have been linked to cancer, impacts on the endocrine, reproductive and immune system.

So yes it would affect you and your unfortunate neighbours.

I regularly see certain people burning electric cable to get at the copper right in the middle of Sligo town. On the Connaughton Road. Where are the Green Police when this is happening?.. But then again it wouldnt be politically correct to stop these people from doing it...Once again good ridinance to Gormley "The Gormless" and the rest of those traitors

Does John Gormley simply not get it?

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