Dr. James O Reilly, TD, has gone to Angola.

Tora Bora · 09-03-2011 10:26PM #1

Biffo, in his hay day described the dept of health as an Angola. Successive ministers have gone in there and come out beaten and politically diminished.

None of them however have flustered and blustered beforehand as to how they would have it all sorted in no time, like our new minister has. He has talked the talk, but will he walk the walk. Has he met his Angola?

Dannyboy83 · 10-03-2011 12:43AM

If other countries can operate decent health services, there is no reason we cannot either.
It seems our biggest problem in health is that we've constantly sent politicians to do the job of technicians.

I mean, who would hire a gardener to develop their IT architecture?
Cowen is a fairly good example of this - there was a recent thread which asked to identify any accomplishments he had achieved in any of his portfolios - none could be identified.

O'Reilly would stand out from previous candidates in that he actually has some level of experience and understanding of his portfolio. Most politicians run screaming from health, O'Reilly stated categorically that he craves the position.

I just hope that they will bring in the relevant expertise from Holland to implement the new health system, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.

Kristopherus · 10-03-2011 01:00AM

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands. Result is you now have Hospital Consultants earning €250,000 pa, GPs who average €80,000 from the General Medical Service alone, and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

I have grave doubts he will be the reforming Messiah for the Health Service. He will have to start cutting the salaries of the top eschelons of the service, and then get the service to operate with less staff. I doubt he will get the better of the vested interest that he was the leader of. Good luck to him because he'll need it.

hinault · 10-03-2011 01:03AM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Biffo, in his hay day described the dept of health as an Angola. Successive ministers have gone in there and come out beaten and politically diminished.

None of them however have flustered and blustered beforehand as to how they would have it all sorted in no time, like our new minister has. He has talked the talk, but will he walk the walk. Has he met his Angola?

Angola, the country that is, it's health department was set up by the Cubans in the 1970/80's.

If O'Reilly can get as efficient a health service as Angola/Cuba has, in this country it will be a great day.

Einhard · 10-03-2011 01:08AM

The most depressing thing about the Irish health services is that they are well funded by international standards, and that our frontline staff is well above that in other comparable nations. And yet they stumble from one crisis to another.

I would ask though, is our health system really all that bad? I've never had any problem when interacting with it, and neither have any of my family. The care my mother received during her long-term illness was excellent, and anytime further assistance was required, it was prompt. Furthermore, according to the Euro Health Consumer Index, Ireland's system is ranked 13th out of 33 European nations, an improvement from 28th of 29 in 2006. (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0928/health.html). There are obviously major problems with the delivery of health services in this country, but do we, as with most things, tend to magnifiy the problems, and minimise the positive?

Einhard · 10-03-2011 01:10AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands. Result is you now have Hospital Consultants earning €250,000 pa, GPs who average €80,000 from the General Medical Service alone, and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

I have grave doubts he will be the reforming Messiah for the Health Service. He will have to start cutting the salaries of the top eschelons of the service, and then get the service to operate with less staff. I doubt he will get the better of the vested interest that he was the leader of. Good luck to him because he'll need it.

He sounds like a tough, effective, no-nonsense type of negotiator, a man able and willing to push his own agenda in the face of resistance. Just the man for the job in other words!

later12 · 10-03-2011 02:17AM

Einhard wrote: »

The most depressing thing about the Irish health services is that they are well funded by international standards, and that our frontline staff is well above that in other comparable nations. And yet they stumble from one crisis to another.

I would ask though, is our health system really all that bad? I've never had any problem when interacting with it, and neither have any of my family. The care my mother received during her long-term illness was excellent, and anytime further assistance was required, it was prompt. Furthermore, according to the Euro Health Consumer Index, Ireland's system is ranked 13th out of 33 European nations, an improvement from 28th of 29 in 2006. (http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0928/health.html). There are obviously major problems with the delivery of health services in this country, but do we, as with most things, tend to magnifiy the problems, and minimise the positive?

I must say that I agree; of course the typical response is to express one's horror at the supposedly malfunctioning and backward service, but quite frankly my experience (biased as it may be) is: It. Does .Work.

In fact, my question to those who advocate change is: what exactly do you wish to change?

femur61 · 10-03-2011 07:25AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands. Result is you now have Hospital Consultants earning €250,000 pa, GPs who average €80,000 from the General Medical Service alone, and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

I have a sinking feeling about what he can achieve. The whole HSE is corrupt and literally poisoned with inefficiencies. Politicians caved in on to many on so many fronts not just to the unions but to anyone who was unhappy, except the patients. We are such a subservient nation putting people on pedestals, just because they spoke well and wore a suit, they were given what they wanted. Now our best educated people the country has ever produced have gone.

dan_d · 10-03-2011 07:38AM

To put it bluntly.....if he has the balls to accept that the only way for his methods to work is to turn the HSE upside down, shake it hard till all the crap comes out, and then put it back together correctly, he'll be fine

If he can stand up to the consultants, it will be a massive step for him.Anything else will be a bonus after that.

If however, he cherry picks bits of the dutch system, and slots it into ours without tryong to actually change anything......not a hope for the man.

I will watch with interest....I have serious doubts that much will change

RichardAnd · 10-03-2011 09:02AM

femur61 wrote: »

I have a sinking feeling about what he can achieve. The whole HSE is corrupt and literally poisoned with inefficiencies. Politicians caved in on to many on so many fronts not just to the unions but to anyone who was unhappy, except the patients. We are such a subservient nation putting people on pedestals, just because they spoke well and wore a suit, they were given what they wanted. Now our best educated people the country has ever produced have gone.

A massive overstatement. Thousands of graduates still get jobs and plenty of our "best and brightest" are still here. In fact, I would wager that the best graduates are the ones finding jobs. Personally, I'm at best a mediocrity in my "field" (IT) and I got a job at which I do my best. Of my entire class, I can't think of a single person better than me, and there were many, who is now unemployed.

K-9 · 10-03-2011 10:39AM

dan_d wrote: »

To put it bluntly.....if he has the balls to accept that the only way for his methods to work is to turn the HSE upside down, shake it hard till all the crap comes out, and then put it back together correctly, he'll be fine

If he can stand up to the consultants, it will be a massive step for him.Anything else will be a bonus after that.

If however, he cherry picks bits of the dutch system, and slots it into ours without tryong to actually change anything......not a hope for the man.

I will watch with interest....I have serious doubts that much will change

I thought they're scrapping the HSE and transferring everything back to the Dept. of Health.

Aidric · 10-03-2011 10:44AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands. Result is you now have Hospital Consultants earning €250,000 pa, GPs who average €80,000 from the General Medical Service alone, and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

I have grave doubts he will be the reforming Messiah for the Health Service. He will have to start cutting the salaries of the top eschelons of the service, and then get the service to operate with less staff. I doubt he will get the better of the vested interest that he was the leader of. Good luck to him because he'll need it.

Indeed. This fact has floated over the head of a lot of his disciples.
Saying that, if he reforms it effectively then I'll be the first to praise him. The Universal Health Insurance is a positive initiative.

ardmacha · 10-03-2011 12:34PM

Now our best educated people the country has ever produced have gone.

Many of the best educated people work in the HSE!

RichardAnd · 10-03-2011 12:42PM

ardmacha wrote: »

Many of the best educated people work in the HSE!

There could be some truth in that. This country is awash with people who have years of education behind them and not not an ounce of useful intelligence/experiance or even common sense to back it up

ardmacha · 10-03-2011 01:14PM

This country is awash with people who have years of education behind them and not not an ounce of useful intelligence/experiance or even common sense to back it up

This board country is awash with people who have years of feck all education and not an ounce of useful intelligence/experience or common sense either.

gigino · 10-03-2011 01:18PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands. Result is you now have Hospital Consultants earning €250,000 pa, GPs who average €80,000 from the General Medical Service alone, and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

With that track record, God help us all. The country is surely f*****d because of people like him.
As a foreign consultant said recently, no wonder our health system and economy is so poor when the wages that would pay two consultant elsewhere in the EC will only pay one consultant here.

mossyc123 · 10-03-2011 01:31PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service.

So if they aren't the most important element who are?

The hospital porters?!

and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

Junior Doctors get €17.50 an hour. No benefits, no job security beyond 6 months/a year and a fairly punishing schedules.
I think they are paid about right and should do everything possible to defend there pay and conditions.

Drummerboy2 · 10-03-2011 01:41PM

There will be no improvements until the Consultants are taken on. What goes on in this country is scandalous.

RichardAnd · 10-03-2011 02:00PM

ardmacha wrote: »

This board country is awash with people who have years of feck all education and not an ounce of useful intelligence/experience or common sense either.

Yes

jimmycrackcorm · 10-03-2011 02:26PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands.

For the same reasons now he should be able to go into the DOH and make equivalent demands but from the opposite spectrum. It's like Torres changing from Liverpool to Chelsea, although like him, whether Jimmy can score any goals still remains to be seen.

bamboozle · 10-03-2011 02:33PM

Einhard wrote: »

He sounds like a tough, effective, no-nonsense type of negotiator, a man able and willing to push his own agenda in the face of resistance. Just the man for the job in other words!

+1 exactly, Reilly has experience in these types of negotiations and this will stand to him when he goes face to face with the different medical unions.

P. Breathnach · 10-03-2011 03:52PM

mossyc123 wrote: »

So if they [the medical profession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants] aren't the most important element who are?

The hospital porters?!
...

If you need to be transferred from a ward to a treatment location, the hospital porter may be the most important person at that time. Let's not fall into the trap of disparaging the contribution to health care of those who are not medical doctors. It's an enterprise involving people with a variety of skills, and all have their purpose.

Ray Burkes Pension · 10-03-2011 04:16PM

RichardAnd wrote: »

There could be some truth in that. This country is awash with people who have years of education behind them and not not an ounce of useful intelligence/experiance or even common sense to back it up

The country is awash with people able to learn off essays in order to regurgitate them verbatim in a writing-really-quickly exam.

Tora Bora · 12-04-2011 09:29PM

I noticed tonight that Dr. O Reilly declined to come on prim time. Not for the first time since becoming minister. He wouldn't have passed up the opportunity when he was sitting pretty in the shelter of the opposition benches.
I guess the reality of being in government with no money in the kitty and surrounded by the civil service system, is a pretty suffocating place to be.

jmayo · 13-04-2011 10:34AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands. Result is you now have Hospital Consultants earning €250,000 pa, GPs who average €80,000 from the General Medical Service alone, and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

I have grave doubts he will be the reforming Messiah for the Health Service. He will have to start cutting the salaries of the top eschelons of the service, and then get the service to operate with less staff. I doubt he will get the better of the vested interest that he was the leader of. Good luck to him because he'll need it.

Ever heard of poacher turned gamekeeper ?

P. Breathnach wrote: »

If you need to be transferred from a ward to a treatment location, the hospital porter may be the most important person at that time. Let's not fall into the trap of disparaging the contribution to health care of those who are not medical doctors. It's an enterprise involving people with a variety of skills, and all have their purpose.

You're fine just so long as said porter is not on his tea break, lunch or near clocking off time.
Take it from me they are some of the worse excuses for workers that inhabit the HSE and they run to the unions like many more HSE workers if anyone dares threaten their cosy existence.

The entire HSE employees are a disaster from top to bottom.
And before some one attacks, I know there are a lot of good honest heardworking individuals within the HSE, they just are surounded by those who see it as a chore whilst they wait for their pensions.

goose2005 · 13-04-2011 03:56PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

This is the James O'Reilly who, as Sec. Gen of the IMO, marched into the DOH in the late 90's and demanded huge pay rises for the medical proffession, from Junior Docs to GPs to Consultants. A powerful vested interested who claimed they were the most essential element of the health service. The DOH in those times were Biffo Cowen & Meehole Martin. The DOH capitulated to all the IMO demands. Result is you now have Hospital Consultants earning €250,000 pa, GPs who average €80,000 from the General Medical Service alone, and Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

They were facing having to do 60/70 hours a week and only being paid for 48.

14-04-2011 11:56AM

Kristopherus wrote: »

Junior Hosp Docs who took a High Court action to stop the HSE from cutting their hours and overtime.:rolleyes:

Factually inaccurate. The HSE were cutting the overtime pay but not the overtime hours. Thus doctors were were working 60/70/80 hour weeks with up to ~40 of those hours (which amounts to an entire working week for some) being unpaid.

Tell me, if the HSE is so cushy for NCHDs why are so many leaving, and why are there so many vacant posts?

I'll tell you why, because conditions here for NCHDs are terrible, amongst the worst in the developed world, with long hours demanded, little senior oversight, and the HSE constantly trying to find new and inventive ways of not paying them for the hours worked.

Just becasue some consultants and GPs at the top have it easy does not mean the entire profession does.

Head The Wall · 14-04-2011 09:07PM

jmayo wrote: »

You're fine just so long as said porter is not on his tea break, lunch or near clocking off time.
Take it from me they are some of the worse excuses for workers that inhabit the HSE and they run to the unions like many more HSE workers if anyone dares threaten their cosy existence.

The entire HSE employees are a disaster from top to bottom.
And before some one attacks, I know there are a lot of good honest heardworking individuals within the HSE, they just are surounded by those who see it as a chore whilst they wait for their pensions.

A few porters went on strike/protesting in UCHG last year for a few days, the hospital reported that there was no noticeable difference in the service. On the phone so don't have the link.

The reason they were not working is another PS lunacy story.

martinn123 · 15-04-2011 10:09AM

Read, Orla Tinsley's article in todays Irish Times www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0415/1224294725270.html Orla is an MS sufferer, and she speaks of meetings with Reilly,Photo ops, ''I am wholly committed to 34 Bed unit'' and such BS Eventually the 1000 word statment, buried within is the shock that the ward is down to 20 beds.This after Reilly cancelled an interview with Orla to be part of a Prime Time programme. Her final comment........... ''This Govt. does not feel very new ''Same old Political krap, get the picture, don't go on interview if you have bad news, and bury the news in a 1000 word report.

Atilathehun · 23-08-2011 12:17PM

Where, oh where, is our James O Reilly? He was never a night off the nine o clock news, and seldom off Prime Time, when he was in opposition.

Hardly ever hear him or seem him now. Could it be that being in government under the spell of civil service mandarins, has put manners on the FG rotweiller

Laminations · 23-08-2011 12:23PM

Tora Bora wrote: »

Biffo, in his hay day described the dept of health as an Angola. Successive ministers have gone in there and come out beaten and politically diminished.

None of them however have flustered and blustered beforehand as to how they would have it all sorted in no time, like our new minister has. He has talked the talk, but will he walk the walk. Has he met his Angola?

The thread title states that he 'has gone to Angola'. But the OP rather than back this statement up, asks the question 'has he met his Angola?'.

I was expecting some evidence and argument to back up the claim in the thread title. An OP simply asking this question seems a bit premature given he is less than 6 months in the job and into what he has described himself as a 6 year plan....

Dr. James O Reilly, TD, has gone to Angola.

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